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Real Crossfire reviews

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September 26, 2005 10:21:57 PM

reviews are starting to come in...

<A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=ODE1" target="_new">http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=ODE1&lt;/A>

<A HREF="http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1862962,00.a..." target="_new">http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1862962,00.a...;/A>

still think the refresh rate problem will hurt sales badly

More about : real crossfire reviews

September 26, 2005 11:30:37 PM

but I have an LCD screen with a max refresh rate of 60 Hz. Does this mean Crossfire will look like ass on my monitor?

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September 26, 2005 11:50:12 PM

looks like I am waiting for the new X1800's.

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September 27, 2005 1:45:31 AM

Agreed. Mine does.
September 27, 2005 3:03:39 AM

Agreed

SLI was *meant* for higher resolutions, and most of the benchmarks indicate such because that's when there is the biggest performance gap. Like, in low resolutions, at time the 7800 GTX single actually outperforms the 7800 GTX in SLI (only marginally).

Nonetheless, x850 in Crossfire seemed to do pretty well against the 6800 Ultra SLI, or atleast expectedly.

Right off the bat, there doesn't seem to be as much issues with Crossfire (besides the limitation) as there was when SLI was first introduced several months ago. I mean, perhaps ATI learned from some of the mistakes of SLI, but overall Crossfire seems to be an interesting product with some neat features that may be worth my $$ when the x1800 comes rolling in.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Gamer_369 on 09/26/05 11:07 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
September 27, 2005 5:35:42 AM

The TechReport does their typical bang-up job;

<A HREF="http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q3/ati-crossfire/inde..." target="_new">http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q3/ati-crossfire/inde...;/A>

Digit-Life is a little dissapointing IMO, but still better than Anands';
<A HREF="http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/video/cf.html" target="_new">http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/video/cf.html&lt;/A>

I'm still not a fan of CF or SLi. The extra AA is nice, but not as impressive as None vs 4XAA. And the limitation of 1600x1200 is pretty limiting for this supposed high end product. Considering the power of their current competition I can't help but think that like we said the X850XT crosfire will lose it's attraction once the new cards arrive.

But I guess you have to launch Crossfire first if you want people to be able to use it for your R520 launch without CF causing a little loss of focus. It allows allows people to work out the bugs in their setups/drivers prior to that launch.

But I'm still not very impressed, gimme surround gaming and stop playing in the wood-shed with the radio shack electronics set on basically 'proof of concept's.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internët account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
September 27, 2005 5:54:10 AM

I don't understand this type of product. I can't even use it. How much did they spend on R&D and how much profit can they make when it's 16x12 limited?

<font color=red><b>Long live Dhanity and the minions scouring the depths of Wingdingium!
a b U Graphics card
September 27, 2005 6:15:16 AM

I thought you only had the 20" Dell, did you geta 24" after all?

Yeah I don't really get it either. The market for this type of product is already limited, and they made it more so. I think they were hoping alot of people were like the guys from driverheaven;
<A HREF="http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/crossfireatireviewx..." target="_new">http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/crossfireatireviewx...;/A>

Who said he doesn't really go above 16x12 so the additional AA ends up being the major focus I guess. That sure is alot just for AA. Although if you look at some of the games though it appears that you can stress them at 16x12 is you take into consideration smoothness of gameplay and look at minimum fps.

But still I agree, this is like building something to play last year's games not this year's or next year's.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internët account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
September 27, 2005 6:23:52 AM

Yeah I got the 24"er and I really want something that will max this thing out. Not now necessarely, but in a year.

<font color=red><b>Long live Dhanity and the minions scouring the depths of Wingdingium!
September 27, 2005 9:29:19 AM

yes of course you can, but then again you only have a 9800 what Frame rate will you be getting 1 a minute at 1600x with 16/8 enabled

<font color=purple> Dont expect Miracles humans made them. The blind are easily led by the blind </font color=purple>
September 27, 2005 12:22:26 PM

mine LCD monitor does, but only in analog mode. I use the DVI connections and that "digital" max is 60 Hz at 1280 X 1024.

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September 27, 2005 12:39:28 PM

When ATI sees that its crossfire is getting horrible reviews, hopefully that will drop the prices. They shot themselves in the foot with this one. So pay for a $400 850XTPE card and then another $350 for an extra "master" card that barely nixes out a single 7800GTX? Who can justify that expense?

The really bad news here is that they are going to have to sale the next generation of cards (X1800 and above) at much higher prices to make up for the no doubt dismal sales of crossfire.
Another sad thing is that this was meant to be a boon to those who already had a "crossfire" ready 800 or 850 card. They paid a premium for that. MANY bought the AGP version. Only one board I know of has AGP with PCI-e.
Lastly, that big ass cord strutting out from behind your case . . the dongle cord?!! I gotta plug other stuff back there and this cord is one hell of a numb nut idea!
It's pretty obvious that this was not "from the ground up" thinking. This was "how can I make a dually solution quick with the crap I already have?"

This is a downer for me because I have been holding off on Crossfire! Now my only hope is X1800. Upgrading my computer was going to be pricey. Perhaps this is a godsend that Crossfire was/is so horrible. $750 for a crossfire pair of cards. It makes me scared that if the X1800 performs (or cards released in Dec) better than CF, what will they cost?? $900? That will put upgrading completely on the shelf for me!

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September 27, 2005 1:03:58 PM

so x1800s don't support crossfire? ATI is really confusing now with all the product lines. The x1600 won't be released now and the x800gto and x800gto2? will be released instead?
September 27, 2005 1:27:52 PM

I hear/read conflicting reports on whether or not X1800 will support CF. But that means buying an X1800 master card too. These things will take you upwards of $1000!!!

And you have to buy Xpress 200 mobos which frankly are nothing to write home about compared to Nforce4.

And whether or not X1800 supports CF, it won't fix the dongle problem or the 1600 X 1200 60 Hz problem unless they have ALREADY fixed that for the next generation of CF. But how odd is it to release a "newer" version of CF within 2 months of eache other?

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September 27, 2005 1:41:50 PM

I think so too, but would it be worth it? this current CF release is rather anti-climatic. The way they released it was even odd.

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September 27, 2005 2:01:16 PM

another kind of crappy thing is that they sale AGP Radeon 850XTPE in AGP that say "crossfire ready." But there is to date only one mobo that has one fully functional AGP 4X/8X slot and a full PCI-e X16 slot. But it is not an Xpress 200 board, it's a Uli chipset. Are the AGP owners of a Radeon 850XTPE going to get hosed?

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September 27, 2005 2:14:37 PM

if the X1800 is meant to compete with the 7800GTX, then its price better reflect that as you can get a 7800GTX for well under $500.

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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
September 27, 2005 3:43:01 PM

agree about the vid cards, but not about the Motherboard
Quote:
And you have to buy Xpress 200 mobos which frankly are nothing to write home about compared to Nforce4.

IMO these board seams reallly solid!

<A HREF="http://And you have to buy Xpress 200 mobos which frankly are nothing to write home about compared to Nforce4." target="_new">Read this!</A>

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
September 27, 2005 4:42:42 PM

yeah, you're right. I was really thinking of the Xpress 200 for socket 754 cpus like <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681..." target="_new">this one.</A>

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a b U Graphics card
September 27, 2005 5:23:02 PM

Labby, Link don't work... however if you read the begining of the DriverHeaven review they seem pretty competitive like you said;

<A HREF="http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/crossfireatireviewx..." target="_new">http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/crossfireatireviewx...;/A>

And in a few others' reviews of just the chipset (even Anand's surprisingly) they were slightly faster than the nF4, but with less features than some like the DFIs.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internët account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
September 27, 2005 6:39:03 PM

Quote:
The really bad news here is that they are going to have to sale the next generation of cards (X1800 and above) at much higher prices to make up for the no doubt dismal sales of crossfire.

I don't think you're seeing the big picture.

First of all, Ati's X800 generation crossfire commitment was probably more of a knee-jerk reaction to SLI than a serious contender. I think they expected CF to come out months earlier than the X1800 series. Obviously, they've had problems getting CF to market - so at this point, X800 CF compatibility is here for no other reason than "We promised we would".

It's X1800 performance with Crossfire that will make or break it, not X800 performance with crossfire, which is nothing more than a fulfillment on a promise that Ati made some time ago...

It's too early to start nailing Crossfire's coffin just yet. October will put those nails in, or ressurect it entirely.

________________
<b>Geforce <font color=red>6800 Ultra</b></font color=red>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>~3300+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 412 FSB @ 2266 Mhz)</i>
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September 27, 2005 8:58:20 PM

Sigh... After reading the dismayal review here on thg I really miss the good old reviews. Sigh. THG states that there is an advantage over SLI with CF that you do not need to buy two identical cards, that's absolutely true, but with CF you have to buy a totally useless mastercard that will not work alone (correct me if I'm mistaken). And not only that there's the nasty cable out back... still I'm not excluding ATI as my next upgradepath, but frankly I've had too many bad experiences regarding ati so another tripple ati product.. hmm makes me think twice and read three times as many reviews before I even consider it. Anyways 7800GTX totally wipes CF 850 of the charts except in HL2, and image quality is subjective no matter what one says.. so no pluss to either there.. Common ATI this is a junk release give us 1800 CF now, not in another 6 months. By then Nvidia may have somehting new. Give us enthusiasts something to compete with Nvidias domain, but not in 6 montsh.. we need it NOW!!!

Come to think of it.. 7800GTX runs cooler than 6800 ultra , but ati's x850 is FRIGGIN hot, now 2 of these in a system? [-peep-].. that's a heater for the winter, and a serious trouble in summer..

just my 2 cents.
September 27, 2005 9:02:11 PM

Dude, chill. X1800 is here in less than 8 days. Check Ati.com.

I've never heard anyone say that the mastercards can not be used individually, either.

I thought 850's ran cooler than 6800 Ultras, which the X850 is competing against, no?

________________
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September 27, 2005 10:04:54 PM

I know it is pure speculation, but since CF with the 850XTPE was nearly on par with the 7800GTX, how do you theorize the X1800 will compare to the 7899GTX? which is also a round-about way of comparing X1800 to the CF mentioned earlier.

Also, I do NOT think the master card can be used by itself. I doubt you be able to sale it later on Ebay by itself for much. At least with SLI you could sale two working cards at two seperate auctions.

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September 27, 2005 10:56:02 PM

atyt maybe crapping out yet again with their wares, but the sentiment backing it isnt likely...sale for a sell or sell for a sale, its anyones pick! and a done deal here hurray! :) 
a b U Graphics card
September 28, 2005 12:16:08 AM

Quote:
(correct me if I'm mistaken).

You're mistaken. Perhaps actually reading the reviews posted in this thread would help you.

Quote:
Anyways 7800GTX totally wipes CF 850 of the charts except in HL2

And NFSU:2, THIEF, and a few others, but really they aren't competitors so why does it matter?

Quote:
Common ATI this is a junk release give us 1800 CF now, not in another 6 months.

What six months? You're days away and whining as if you were at the very start of all this back when we were talking about the R500/NV50. I would agree with Cleeve's statement... CHILL !!

As for the release, like I mentioned before, if you're going to target the G70 series, you know there's going to be a whack of people out there who are going to see any single card solution as having a weakness if SLi can beat it even if just barely for twice the price. So you launch Crossfire now with cards that no longer matter, see the reactions, and then you launch the X1800XT without the Crossfire edition, and leak the Crossfire edition to help any PR issues with SLi. IT makes sense even if it's annoying to wait for, especially since the R520 was supposed to be out before Crossfire even under the original schedule.

Quote:
By then Nvidia may have somehting new.

This is based on what? nVidia has a big process shift to overcome first. The RS chip will help, but I would highly doubt that they've jumped to 90nm quick enough to respond before Christmas, and more likely closer to March if the staggered releases hold. Expect to see refreshes, but I doubt they'll be as fast as the G70, which is really just the continuation of the NV48 IMO. However Expect something new from nV next year regardless of the performance of the R5xx series.

Quote:
Come to think of it.. 7800GTX runs cooler than 6800 ultra ,

You're wrong, it IDLES cooler, but it doesn't RUN cooler, nice try;

<A HREF="http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/bfg/7800gtoc/chart/imag..." target="_new">http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/bfg/7800gtoc/chart/imag...;/A>

See how bad it is not to have LOW-K !! :lol: 

The X850XT has the gate technology and runs cooler than the GF6800U, and it also benifits from Low-K to reduce the amount of leakage and thus less heat once again. I'm sure two X850XTs are hotter than a single GF7800GTX, but 2 GF6800Us would be hotter still, and it'd be interesting to see how close that wamr GTX is compared to the 2 X850XT and their cool ways (especially the heat extracting [but supposedly loud] HSFs)

So if you're worried about heat, I guess the 90nm low-k R520s may just offer you the perfect solution, buyt I guess we'll have to wait and see.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internët account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
September 28, 2005 12:27:43 AM

Once again nicely done.

Some people are like slinkies....
Not really good for anything but you cant help smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.
a b U Graphics card
September 28, 2005 12:29:54 AM

Quote:
Also, I do NOT think the master card can be used by itself. I doubt you be able to sale it later on Ebay by itself for much. At least with SLI you could sale two working cards at two seperate auctions.

Do you guys even bother to read? Nowhere was that mentioned in the reviews.
BTW, didn't you hear Crossfire killed WUSY's father! :eek: 

And, people the 'identical card' restriction is also to disappear from SLi once the drivers are perfected, and many people will be looking forward to that tweak too.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internët account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
September 28, 2005 12:33:48 AM

Thanks just cleaning up a few loose ends before heading home from work.

Got pick up the car from Canadian Tire, got new Michelin Snow Tires put on today while at work (had the appointment from last week and it SNOW 2 CMs this morning! Talk about timing :cool: ). Too bad the snow melted already, and there's still not enough in the mountains yet.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internët account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
September 28, 2005 3:10:45 AM

Quote:
You're mistaken. Perhaps actually reading the reviews posted in this thread would help you.

Take it up a step and read reviews from various hardware sites, such as Hard OCP, Anandtech, Driver Heaven, Beyond 3D, and many more you'd be sure to find by googling.

Quote:
And NFSU:2, THIEF, and a few others, but really they aren't competitors so why does it matter?

Agreed. The 6800 Ultra is what ideally should be compared with the x850.

Quote:
As for the release, like I mentioned before, if you're going to target the G70 series, you know there's going to be a whack of people out there who are going to see any single card solution as having a weakness if SLi can beat it even if just barely for twice the price. So you launch Crossfire now with cards that no longer matter, see the reactions, and then you launch the X1800XT without the Crossfire edition, and leak the Crossfire edition to help any PR issues with SLi. IT makes sense even if it's annoying to wait for, especially since the R520 was supposed to be out before Crossfire even under the original schedule.

It would make more sense for ATI to have waited a couple weeks after the launch of their upcomming cards and then released the technology which would have more competitve results againt the 7800 GTX, opposed to having the x850 Crossfire slower, with not as many features, and about a significant amount of more money.

Now what you have is a whack of people with the idea Crossfire is useless as the limitaion greatly renders it from being utelized for the "entushiasts." And even though the upcoming cards will evade that problem, it might be too late for people fed up and switching to SLI.

It's like we now have a piece of hardware that seems to be inferior to the competitor, but atleast ATI can say they now have competition to the 6800 Ultra SLI, eh?

ATI, we knew you had crossfire, and we knew it would be you're multi-gpu solution competing with SLI. You don't need to prove it to us by saying "see, look here's two x850's...see it..."

We'd, or atleast I, would much rather wait until you can provide something actually useful. While some may consider SLI or Crossfire useless right now, anyways, I atleast think higher resolutions would have a closer chance at being worth it. But 1600 X 1200...

But I definately think image quality is a winner.
September 28, 2005 3:16:50 AM

Oh, you're from Canada....that explains a lot. :p 

Uh, sorry. Anywho, to retrieve this post from the pit of "uselessness" I'll have to say that I yern for many inches of snow this year, as last year we were giped.
September 28, 2005 3:22:20 AM

Are you high?

I dont mean that in a rude way but i think you might actually be under the influence.

Are you honestly saying that ATI should have launched all this at once? You dont think the products woul have trampled eachother in the media?



__________________________________________
Chaintech VNF3-250/A64 2800+/1GB(512x2) OCZ VX GOLD 2-2-2-5/BFG 6800GT/Thermaltake 420W/WD 200GB/Maxtor 300GB
September 28, 2005 4:08:01 AM

And doing so a week before the upcomming launch is any better/different?

I'd definately like what you're on...

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Gamer_369 on 09/28/05 00:09 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
September 28, 2005 4:13:57 AM

its perfect...release CF with the 850 and a ATI chipset...let the reviewers write for 2days and the forums get buzzing for X1800.

Most of the time forums get buzzing and eveyrone makes claims that dont pan out for weeks/months. but this is 6days away. So people will be waiting to see the X1800 and what it can do with CF and everything.

They want a buzz going in, the X850XT PE in CF was as good as or better then the 6800U in SLI. Those are competing products....now we have to see if the X1800 can match the GTX straight up or in CF.

its a staggered launch....have you never noticed they do this with all companies. Chevy released 20 new cars in 18months. They didn't do it all at once, even though they COULD have...its a staggered launch to keep ATI on the front page as long as possible.

I guess ATI shouldn't use market practices that work, they should listen to you...my bad.

__________________________________________
Chaintech VNF3-250/A64 2800+/1GB(512x2) OCZ VX GOLD 2-2-2-5/BFG 6800GT/Thermaltake 420W/WD 200GB/Maxtor 300GB<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by pickxx on 09/27/05 09:15 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
September 28, 2005 4:49:04 AM

Quote:
Are you honestly saying that ATI should have launched all this at once? You dont think the products woul have trampled eachother in the media?

Unless CF was released about a month ago, which it wasn't, or expected to release no earlier than a month away, then no matter what, the products are going be "together" in the media. So ultimately what you're doing it critizing ATI's marketing tactic.


Quote:
Most of the time forums get buzzing and eveyrone makes claims that dont pan out for weeks/months. but this is 6days away. So people will be waiting to see the X1800 and what it can do with CF and everything.

And because the majority of buyers or potential buyers attend these "buzzing" forums, I believe this matters? And how is waiting for a product considered "buzzing around." If you ask me, if anything, it's rumors and speculation, to which some choose not to be apart of. Sure it's interesting, but to the average buyer, gossip is really unhelpful.

Quote:
They want a buzz going in, the X850XT PE in CF was as good as or better then the 6800U in SLI.

Unfourtunately, it's human nature to focus on the negative. And unless you feel a 1600 X 1200 limitation is outweighed by expected performance results, then Crossfire to many right now seems dissapointing in that aspect.

Quote:
Chevy released 20 new cars in 18months.

*slaps leg...wow, `ya don't say.

Seriosuly dude, nobody's saying otherwise, so what are you trying to get at?

Quote:
I guess ATI shouldn't use market practices that work, they should listen to you...my bad.

I forgive you ;) 
a b U Graphics card
September 28, 2005 5:27:37 AM

Quote:
It would make more sense for ATI to have waited a couple weeks after the launch of their upcomming cards and then released the technology which would have more competitve results againt the 7800 GTX, opposed to having the x850 Crossfire slower, with not as many features, and about a significant amount of more money.

Why would that make sense at this late point? When it was announced it was said to be coming out after the R520's release and almost all of us here said, WTF?!? What's the point? Their current strategy gives them 3 different PR launches to use (Crossfire, R520, R520 Crossfired). And while Crossfire itself is somewhat of a letdown, it gets the idea of the MoBos out there. Noe you launch the R520s straight up without Crossfire and try and take centre stage (if they release the R520 to similar glowing reviews of Crossfire then that could backfire). The you either launch or leak the Crossfire results to counter talk of nV's reply.

Launching the R520 first makes the R850XTCF useless in print, and while I personally se it as being as useless now as the GF6600 and 6800 series in SLi (as a new purchase) on paper and PR it survives and thrives (although with alot of criticism). I also agree with Cleeve, it's also almost to show in the history books that they were able to do it for the X800 series as well as this generation, and that just reinforces my view that this is all for PR purposes both Promo and Feedback/Testing the waters. And if by the end of the generation a CF-ed X850XT/PE beats the SLied GF6s in 3Dmark in someone's mind then they win. I'm telling you it's all about the minutia, not about selling cards.


Quote:
Now what you have is a whack of people with the idea Crossfire is useless as the limitaion greatly renders it from being utelized for the "entushiasts."

What 'enthusiast' was considering this setup over either a single or SLied GF7 series card or waiting for the R5xx series? C'mon. No one is writing anything off as useless, anymore than SLi is overall useless despite being marginalized.

Quote:
And even though the upcoming cards will evade that problem, it might be too late for people fed up and switching to SLI.

Uh-oh, they better watchout for all those sales in the 10days or less! Personally IMO this is the best time to launch it because any dissapointment has absolutely minimal impact, because no one would've been able to get their hands on one between now and the R5xx launch anyways. Anyone spends that much on an SLi rig between now and the R5xx launch either has enough money to roll hardware every week, ignorant of the marketplace, or simply blinded by loyalty. Any enthusiast in their right mind who doesn't already have an SLi rig now wouldn't get one until after the launch. That's not saying they won't end up with the same hardware, but they'll read the launch reviews/info and decide and then go out an buy their hardware with the knowledge that it's their right choice.


Quote:
ATI, we knew you had crossfire, and we knew it would be you're multi-gpu solution competing with SLI. You don't need to prove it to us by saying "see, look here's two x850's...see it..." ]

Sure they do, for the same reason that Intel had to bolt on 64bit support or another core. See we can do it too! Heck I'd say nV's entire Cinema series is that very thing, "see we can do it too"!
Without this launch it would be like the R9800MAXX, it was built, perhaps theoretically possible, but never actually benched by independant reviewers, so it's an untested irrelevant part, even in history.

Quote:
I atleast think higher resolutions would have a closer chance at being worth it. But 1600 X 1200...

I'd agree that it gives you a larger marker (always good, unless it means more peopl unsatisfued), but it's still quite useful at that level if you look at the DH review, where you can see the impact on minimum FPS. But once again I think it has to do more with the "we realize this is a shortcoming, but we don't plan on selling many of these at X850XT solutions, more likely X700 and X800XL versions. Therefore why waste the extra time and effort to develop it, when we could focus on the CF and eatures for the cards we are about to release.

As for IQ, I think both have their benifits. And looking over the reviews it's interesting to see people talk about the quality of ATi's 14x being superior to nV's 16x, but they are unuseable really, whereas I think it was Digit-Life that mentioned that nV has a far more useable AA in their transparent AA which offers greater quality than either company's regular 4XAA. That says alot really IMO.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internët account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
September 28, 2005 7:46:05 AM

Sigh... The ape is right, you can use a CF card alone in a system, as I said correct me if I'm wrong. Besides ATI is not really doing a bad thing releasing the technology (CF) at this time, but we've had paper launches from ATI for ages. I really would like this x1800 to be available, but ati.com reveals no information just a lame countdown-timer which reveals nothing, tried searching for x1800, nothing. I could ofcourse google it, but that would mean nothing since it wouldn't come from ati themselves. Anyway..

I was quite shocked to read the HARD|OCP review and find out that ati still have a nasty trouble with refreshrates and high-res. What's the point in buying a CF system when it cannot go past 16x12? and 60hz on a CRT is a disgrace. Now i have an LCD monitor so refresh rate and anything bigger than 16x12 is not an issue, but my old crt did 2048x1536 in 85hz... space issues made me swap it for a less spacy screen..

Also the CF mobo is a nice adition. Good performer, nice overclocker. Though I hope there is a manufacturer that makes these boards with 4xPCIe or more, perhaps with PCI-X 133mhz... that would be nice, then I'ld wait no more :) ..

But, in 6 days 20 some hours (when I write this) we'll see if its just another paper launch.
September 28, 2005 7:54:17 AM

Hepps.. just had to comment on the heat issue.
I've tested 2 different X850 cards (XT and XT PE) and they both have serious heat problems, one card even needed extra cooling from an 80x80x25 fan. And this was in a cabinet standing on top of the desk, and the room temp was about 22 C.. That's bad. The other card showed artifacts if the ambient temperature was in the 30-35 C range, which made the card a no issue for me.

The 6800 cards are schorching.. I've got one that's water cooled which never goes above 65 even when the closet I have the computer in is at 40c, but that's the watercooling systems fault not the card... Wanted 7800GTX but to throw away the cooling block + getting new motherboard (I'm running agp).. sigh I had to wait for CF, just too see if it was worth it. The CF motherboard is nice, very nice, but the x8xx CF Thingy, nope not yet.. x1800, maybe...

Sigh what a messy post.
September 28, 2005 10:59:29 AM

Quote:
Do you guys even bother to read? Nowhere was that mentioned in the reviews.


I am alllowed, I think, to speculate on that. The answer to your question is "yes, I read the reviews posted in this thread." NO WHERE, did they test a single "master" card against anything else! Would have been a no brainer to try it don't ya think? after all, they were reviewing yesteryear's technology today! Testing that master card would have let us know if it was actually faster than the 850 slave, then maybe if you were going to buy the 850 you could buy the master instead.

You can't accuse and belittle me about NOT reading an article based on my legitimate speculation.

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September 28, 2005 11:21:29 AM

Quote:
Personally IMO this is the best time to launch it because any dissapointment has absolutely minimal impact, because no one would've been able to get their hands on one between now and the R5xx launch anyways.

Agreed.

Quote:
And while Crossfire itself is somewhat of a letdown, it gets the idea of the MoBos out there.

That seems like a great point Grape. Many folks who may buy R520 are still on AGP. While Crossfires launch wasn't flawless by any means, from what I read these are Fast & Stable motherboards. Important test results to get out there. Upgrading an aging Athlon XP R9700 pro rig to A64 PCI-e no longer means NForce 4 by default, as anyone going R520 may want to buy a fast/stable ATI mobo to go with it. If R520 came before crossfire and the mobos, then what mobo chipset are R520 customers going to buy? Now if R520 somehow doesn't have the 16x12 60HZ limitation, then they are really onto something and may find people buying into their whole package.




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September 28, 2005 11:35:48 AM

Quote:
That seems like a great point Grape. Many folks who may buy R520 are still on AGP.


so in addition to introducing a weak technology and at the moment sparse availability from my POV of the master card, users who already bought the AGP version of a "Crossfire Ready" card have to wait how long before someone other than AsRock comes out with a board that is AGP (4/8X) AND PCI-e? And here's an even worse kicker: for socket 754?!!
But my point still stands for 939.

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September 28, 2005 12:09:47 PM

as of very recently, yes. but that doesn't speak to the CF dilema/quandry.

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September 28, 2005 1:40:55 PM

Quote:
So ultimately what you're doing it critizing ATI's marketing tactic.

I never said anything bad about it, you did. I said its something all companies do. They rarely release things at the same time because they get tramped by themselves.
Think about it like this...if you are writing for a mag. or blog and are giving "X" amount of words/space to use. You can either write one article about X1800 OR one about CF but not both...then you would have to choose. If they are staggered even as little as a week then fewer people have to chose, they can do both.

Quote:
Unfourtunately, it's human nature to focus on the negative.

I think its your nature to focus on the negative. You are ripping a company that is doing something that Nvidia did, and that EVERY MAJOR COPANY DOES.

Which brings me to the greatest of all things you quoted....

Quote:
Chevy released 20 new cars in 18months.

"*slaps leg...wow, `ya don't say.

Seriosuly dude, nobody's saying otherwise, so what are you trying to get at?"


What did i say? lets pull up the whole quote..in context...

Quote:
its a staggered launch....have you never noticed they do this with all companies. Chevy released 20 new cars in 18months. They didn't do it all at once, even though they COULD have...its a staggered launch to keep ATI on the front page as long as possible.


Do you not understand what that means? i could draw you a picture if you want...but that seems to explain what i wanted to say nicely. A staggered launch is proven marketing.



To what ends do you argue this? To prop up Nvidia? to show the problems with marketing ideas? What is the point of all of this? Because i fail to see why you care...or do we just rant about everything we dont like without point or purpose to it?

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September 28, 2005 2:41:40 PM

Quote:
NO WHERE, did they test a single "master" card against anything else! Would have been a no brainer to try it don't ya think?


Actually, no... Xbitlabs overclocked the master and slave cards separately, check out their review.

________________
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September 28, 2005 4:08:15 PM

Quote:
Actually, no... Xbitlabs overclocked the master and slave cards separately, check out their review.


yes, but in my defense none of the 5 or 6 reviews here did that.

btw, I have never been to xbitlab's site before. my god that review is long!!

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September 28, 2005 4:13:42 PM

Xbitlabs rocks the kazbah, IMO.

Very thorough, I'm a fan of their style. I think they're the only ones who found a game that glitched with CF, because they always test a huge spectrum of different types of games.

________________
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September 28, 2005 4:42:59 PM

I am also confused because who would want to buy <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E1681..." target="_new">this</A>
when the Crossfire Master card runs faster than the 850XT?

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!