Real Crossfire reviews - page 2

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  1. Quote:
    I am also confused because who would want to buy this
    when the Crossfire Master card runs faster than the 850XT?


    Unfortunately, as with everything else, computer parts are worth exactly what people will pay for them, regardless of their relative performance...

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  2. i think

    I said I think the CF master may even be faster than the XTPE edition of the 850 when the CF master is overclocked. The 850XTPE costs upwards of $500 but the CF master 850XT costs $350. If more people knew you could use the CF master by itself . . .man!

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  3. Quote:
    I never said anything bad about it, you did. I said its something all companies do. They rarely release things at the same time because they get tramped by themselves.

    Um, actually, I said it would make sense to release crossfire after r520, I never said the same day. That's the point you're trying to argue, but nobody has made any claims to disagree, so that's why I'm a bit bewildered why you keep bringing up a staggered launch? 0_o


    -----Reply To The Great Grape Ape-----------------------

    Quote:
    When it was announced it was said to be coming out after the R520's release and almost all of us here said, WTF?!? What's the point?

    It has more of a point being released after r520 than with the current x800 line.

    Quote:
    it's also almost to show in the history books that they were able to do it for the X800 series as well as this generation, and that just reinforces my view that this is all for PR purposes both Promo and Feedback/Testing the waters.

    Perhaps, but why go through all that trouble for mere "recognition" when in a week the x800 line shall be forgotten?

    Quote:
    What 'enthusiast' was considering this setup over either a single or SLied GF7 series card or waiting for the R5xx series? C'mon. No one is writing anything off as useless, anymore than SLi is overall useless despite being marginalized.

    I'm talking about "enthusiasts" with resolutions higher than 1600 X 1200. I'm sure you've heard the many people with their brand new Dell 2405's. And with that resolution, SLI will allow everything on high, maxed out, and good performance over just one 7800 GTX. Atleast benchmarks seems to indicate such.

    But overall Grape, yea, I agree. several days between now and r520 isn't going to make such an impact, and hopefully potential SLI buyers are intelligent enough to wait it out.

    I just thought it a bit off that they would release this anticpated product (from buyers or just people like you and me)with a limitation that great, when they could have done so by not revealing it at all. And the difference would only be a few weeks. Actually, by the delay from late July when x850 CF cards were supposed to surface, I had naturally come to assume that; that CF wouldn't come until after the r520.

    Oh well, like some said, the true anticipation now lies in r520 with CrossFire, and atleast it'll be good to know that the only thing we'll be waiting on for that is the r520 itself, which acording to ATI should be released in a week.

    <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Gamer_369 on 09/28/05 02:35 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
  4. I suspect the new master card price will reflect the entire X8xx line in a few days, when the X18xx cards are released...

    That's really the only way such a low price makes sense.

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  5. Quote:
    NO WHERE, did they test a single "master" card against anything else!

    They never BENCHMARKED it against anything else but they did check it on it's own in both the Beyond3D and Digit-Life reviews, the reviews are not about single card performance (this is an add-on to single card performance) and even multi-monitor was possible before CF, so the focus isn't so much there. There is no limitation or difference ouside of the additon of the CF hardware to cause differentiation.

    But you made the illogical jump to "they didn't mention it, therefore it doesn't work". You spent more time detailing the GF6's eBay attractiveness which is of course what we all think of when buying stuff, not will it work or does it work better/worse than the competition, simply "I hope I can sucker sell this on eBay!" Of course HardwareBoss thinks "How long before I have to return this to get my redit/money back? :evil:

    Speculating on something you have no proof of is going to get the response you got, which is, "if you don't know, then don't step out on a limb with the empahsis on the wrong syla<b>bull</b>!"

    Quote:
    after all, they were reviewing yesteryear's technology today!

    That's true, I said as much to Gamer, however that never stopped people from reviewing or developing technology that isn't new, just look at SLi, or the ton of Monitor reviews out there. The impact of CF being an option is more important than if it is new or not, or even if they ever ship X850XT versions or not.

    Quote:
    You can't accuse and belittle me about NOT reading an article based on my legitimate speculation.

    Sure I can accuse you, just like you speculated about Crossfire, I speculate about your reading abilities. So perhaps it's your retention or comprehension skills that I should've questioned, because the info is there, and you ignored it or were unable to understand what was being said.

    Either way, you're statement is as dead wrong before as it is now that you've explained yourself.


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  6. Quote:
    users who already bought the AGP version of a "Crossfire Ready" card

    You want to post where any of the AGP cards were sold as Crossfire ready? I'd love to see that. Remember the use of AGP+PCIe was a HACK not a supported or advertised feature. Next you're going to complain about not all X800Pro or GF6800NUs being modable and that's ATi and nV's fault!

    Quote:
    to wait how long before someone other than AsRock comes out with a board that is AGP (4/8X) AND PCI-e?

    Well Foxconn and Jetway had them before AsRock, so I guess not long at all.

    BTW, which AGP combination allows you to do SLi over AGP?

    Quote:
    And here's an even worse kicker: for socket 754?!!
    But my point still stands for 939.

    What are you talking about? There's 754 and 939 version of AGP+PCIe (native and bridged), so you have no point, nor a leg to stand on.

    Are you forgetting to actually READ and Understand things again, once more making up things as you go? It sure seems like it.


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  7. Quote:
    It has more of a point being released after r520 than with the current x800 line.

    Either I don't understand what you're trying to say or you don't understand what I meant by what I wrote.

    To many of us here, if the R520 is twice as fast as an X850XT, the it made little sense to release a Crossfire X800/X850XT that would underperform and perhaps cost as much as a single card, which would have te benifit of potential future X-firing, it's just like someone spending more money for 2 GF6600 or 6600GT than for a GF6800GT/U and getting less performance. That's why we though by that time releasing X850XTCF cards is pointless (pretty much as much as it is now), but the R520CF cards would still be as useable as always, although still a very niche market.

    Quote:
    Perhaps, but why go through all that trouble for mere "recognition" when in a week the x800 line shall be forgotten?

    Probably because they comitted so much time/effort to the line anyways, and it will still likely be supported in the X700/PRO and X800XL CF cards and have a little more utility there (depending on the X1600, etc. price/performance). I think alot of it is, we've spent so much time and money sofar, we might as well show everyone that we've done it, even if we don't move a single card. It's not sound economic sense, but it does have a marketing and thus business perspective, especially with this etherial thing called mind-share.

    I'm sure you've heard the many people with their brand new Dell 2405's. And with that resolution, SLI will allow everything on high, maxed out, and good performance over just one 7800 GTX. Atleast benchmarks seems to indicate such.

    Yes that's true to some extent although at such high resolutions I doubt you could still max things out, because the X800XL 512MB reviews showed that at ultra-high reoslutions with high AA the SLi cards fell off the map, because both engines still have to share the same measely little 256mb despite all their new fill-rate/vertex power.

    I still don't think anyone with a Dell would necessarily consider these anyways, since they would usually be savy enough to know to wait for the R520 release or they would likely already have a solution anyways.

    Remember though that SLi didn't support those panels (20" or 24") either until much later.

    Quote:
    I just thought it a bit off that they would release this anticpated product (from buyers or just people like you and me)with a limitation that great, when they could have done so by not revealing it at all.

    I agree with you there a bit, but it depends on what they need more, exposure to it's existence and thus flood the OEM market with boards ready for sale now or shortly after tyhe R520's launch or whether they should be concerned about the res limit that will definitely get criticism. It's overall a very strange launch, that while it makes sense on many levels, it only makes sense from a PR perspective, which is really what drives the heads of these two companies. If they cou;d've risked getting the boards to market without leaks in the supply chain they may have had other options, but this seems the best way to accomplish their goals and then also have the drawbacks of the launch only have minimum exposure before the new gets swamped by the release of the R520.

    Think about it also like this. If they don't have many R520CF cards out there, then it would be a while before they ramp up production, if they show the R520, and then say the R520CF is coming, now they have proof it works, plausible deniability that they won't be single-link because they learned from this launch, and regardless of what nV launches they will always have some Crossfire PR to draw upon even if it ends up being short of the nV release. Now of course nV could always surprise once again and deliver some extraordinary card that outperforms by such a large margin that that shceme doesn't work, but who knows.

    I suspect ATi has focused most of their efforts on simply getting PCIe R520s in the form of X1800XTs to market without CF. I'm sure they'll make one or two CFs engineering samples should speculation or the GF7800GTX-SLi cause issues for them, but their primary focus will be moving the single cards first, then moving CF. I would be amazed if the R520CF sells anywhere near a month after the X1800XT launch. I just don't think that's their focus, and really it's all about the PR so now that R520CF is plausible, because they did do it for the X850XT, so they can argue, ahh we've done it before, it works, it's not just theory, etc. PErsonally I still think both SLi and Crossfire are PR things, and as such even the mediocre launch of Crossfire proves it works even with it's restrictions (which could be overcome with a quick board swap-out [quick by mfr standards, not by ours, we're talking weeks]), which I'm sure ATi will claim (even if currently not true [not stating that just saying regardless of that]) that that limitation doesn't affect the R520 series.

    I'm telling you once the X1800XTs are released most people will forget about the Crossfire launch's downsides and simply thnk about what the X1800XT will be like in Crossfire, and say, ahh who cares about the X850 series!

    Taht's just my view of it, but I'm pretty sure it will prove to be the case. And don't get me wrong, as a design it's a major flaw, and as a product it seems to be an orphan IMO, but the overall impact I don't see as being as large as ATi's omission of an X700PRO AGP or their delay of getting more RS4xx series MoBos to market. Both of those issues had far greater impact IMO.


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  8. Quote:
    You want to post where any of the AGP cards were sold as Crossfire ready?

    wow, sometimes you are <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102514" target="_new">wrong.</A>
    Scroll down to the bottom.

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    Windows XP<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by knownalien on 09/28/05 08:29 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
  9. Hmmm, can't click your 'link'.

    I guess I'm not familiar (nor is IE) with the url;

    <i><font color=purple>http://you want to post where any of the AGP cards were sold as Crossfire ready? </font color=purple></i>

    And scrolling down didn't help either.

    LOL !! :tongue:

    Still waiting though.....


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  10. Quote:
    Either I don't understand what you're trying to say or you don't understand what I meant by what I wrote.

    Oops, sorry. I think we both meant the same thing then, but just worded it differently.

    Quote:
    Taht's just my view of it, but I'm pretty sure it will prove to be the case. And don't get me wrong, as a design it's a major flaw, and as a product it seems to be an orphan IMO, but the overall impact I don't see as being as large as ATi's omission of an X700PRO AGP or their delay of getting more RS4xx series MoBos to market. Both of those issues had far greater impact IMO.

    Yea, I agree. The biggest thing when SLI came out, or the only thing I recall being a major flaw (aside from the other aspects) was it's limitation to only games set within the profile. I believe at one point it was only about 60 games benefiting.

    In a sense, I think CF's biggest flaw would be the limitation, as otherwise it actually looks somewhat desent. But fourtunately we know that the limitation will be fixed in about a week with the r520, opposed to not knowing if SLI would ever be useful for any and every game.

    Obviously you can now set up profiles (according to nV) so SLI works for every game, but how long did that take? :p

    I suppose CF was to throw up excitement, and with the intent to indicate that CF had "matured" via being used on the x850 (even though you an I know it takes much longer than just being slapped with (a) card(s) and saying "here, see"). Basically I guess the x850 was like a "guinea pig" to prove CF's purpose. Good marketing or not, the x1800 will be the deciding factor, ultimately.

    (By the way knownalien, your link didn't work for me.)
  11. Quote:
    That seems like a great point Grape.

    Funny I think the Feds who're probing my mind are sharing info with the InQ! :wink:

    <A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26511" target="_new">http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26511</A>

    Sounds familiar. :cool:


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  12. try the link above again.

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  13. And I think that's it, CF is almost like the opening act before a concert, if they suck who cares, you won't remember them once the headliner takes the stage.

    If anyone doubts that this will grab PR script and mind-share, just look at the front page of the 3Dcenter;

    <A HREF="http://www.3dcenter.de/" target="_new">http://www.3dcenter.de/</A>

    No other news out there. It's like the old marketing adage;

    <i>"Sowhat if they're complaining about the product underperforming in the press, it's free publicity, and you don't see them talking about anyone else!"</i>

    Now while I don't agree with the policy, if you can flood the market to take any thunder away from anyone else, then you have accomplished something. Just think if nV launches their 80series drivers now, they'll get half the attention or less than they would've gotten without this CF launch. And it seems to happen like clockwork right before any ATi or nV launch the other player announces some other 'steal your thunder' press release to try and muddle the launches. I think in this case ATi might actually muddle that too.

    Anywhoo, like I said before, these staggered launches are going to lead to alot more PR tricks and FUD than last generation, and are bound to remind us of the 3 series (NV3x/R3xx) generations where both companies were playing hardball PR. The 4series generation seemed tame, and likely because they both mirrored each others launches. I have a feeling we will see a return to the scrappy old days.


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  14. So now you're blaming ATi for NewEgg's mistake?

    Great so should I blame nVidia for all the people claiming to be selling GF7800Ultra cards?

    BTW, where does it say Crossfire Ready?

    I copied the text from the whole lower section and even did CTRL-F on the whole page, no Crossfire (even says SLi not supported, although that's a 'well duh!' thing).

    Here's the description and the lower section of the page;

    <i><b>
    SAPPHIRE 100581PESR-BL Radeon X800XT PE 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 VIVO AGP 4X/8X Video Card - Retail
    Model #: 100581PESR-BL
    Item #: N82E16814102514

    ......
    .....
    ....
    ...
    ..
    .

    SpecificationsModel
    Brand SAPPHIRE
    Model 100581PESR-BL
    Chipset
    GPU Radeon X800XT PE
    Core clock 520MHz
    PixelPipelines 16
    Memory
    Memory Clock 1120MHz
    Memory Size 256MB
    Memory Interface 256-bit
    Memory Type GDDR3
    3D API
    DirectX DirectX 9
    OpenGL OpenGL 2.0
    Interface
    Interface AGP 4X/8X
    Ports
    D-SUB 1
    DVI 1
    TV-Out HDTV/S-Video Out
    VIVO Yes
    General
    Tuner None
    RAMDAC 400 MHz
    Max Resolution 2048x1536@85Hz
    SLI Supported No
    Operating Systems Supported Windows 2000/XP
    System Requirements - 300-Watt Power Supply or higher recommended
    - Intel Pentium 4 / AMD Athlon or higher CPU
    - One available AGP slot
    - One power extension cable
    - 128MB system memory
    - CD-ROM drive
    Features
    Features * SMARTSHADER HD increased maximum shader instruction count to 1,536 from 160, new high-performance shader compiler
    * SMOOTHVISION HD improved AA and AF performance for HD resolutions, 12X effective Temporal MSAA generates the sharpest and clearest images
    * VIDEOSHADER HD integrated shader features to provide unprecedented support for digital and high definition video
    * HYPER Z HD enhanced Hi-Z buffer for improved performance at HD resolutions
    * 3Dc provided image enhancement, acceleration technology resulting in high polygon characters and scenes
    * 128-bit, 64-bit, 32-bit per pixel floating point color formats
    Packaging
    Package Contents DVI to VGA adapter
    HDTV Cable
    VIVO Cable
    Power Extension cable
    Driver CD
    User's manual
    </b></i>


    So I'll ask again, this time being specific, for anything solid where <b><font color=red>ATi</font color=red></b> said there would be Crossfire AGP cards.

    I'm often wrong, but that doesn't appear to be the case this time. :tongue:


    EDIT: just wanted to add the URL you fixed it too in case that too should change at a later date;
    <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102514" target="_new">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102514</A>


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    <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheGreatGrapeApe on 09/28/05 06:59 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
  15. LOL! :evil:

    Time to go home now, my work here, and there, is done. :wink:


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  16. another <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102502=" target="_new">"newegg" error.</A>

    #1 I don't pretend to know more than you.

    #2 I am going by stuff I am reading on the internet, just like you. Sometimes you mock me for reading stuff that MAY be at error and sometimes you mock me for not reading at all.

    #3 Information can be wrong, even if it is from ATI's mouth:
    Quote:
    4. When will CrossFire graphics cards be available?

    A. Radeon X850 and Radeon X800 CrossFire Edition cards will be available mid-August.

    <A HREF="http://www.ati.com/technology/crossfire/faq.html#2" target="_new">source ATI</A>

    fact is, those people at Newegg are discovering they do not have a CF ready card.

    Fact is, it would not be impossible to implement an AGP with PCI-e if someone like ULI or someone else tweaks the Xpress 200 chipset.

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  17. So what are you linking to in that newegg link?

    You do realize that Sapphire =/= Crossfire, Sapphire is a brand name not product line.

    Quote:
    fact is, those people at Newegg are discovering they do not have a CF ready card.

    Fact is you still haven't shown AGP CROSSFIRE from ATi's information. Your second statement simply condones buyer ignorance. Anyone who bought AGP by a typo on NewEgg deserves to be dissapointed. The reality is if they wanted to stick with AGP it was never going to be an option regardless of their inability to read the official info on the item.

    Missing a due date (as did nV's SLi MoBos and Cards) isn't something that supports your other statement. Because nV misses out on thei HD support can I therefore say that they said SLi would solve world hunger, cause that's what I want and since they messed up their official statement then I can start making up my own? That's what you're doing here.

    Quote:
    Fact is, it would not be impossible to implement an AGP with PCI-e if someone like ULI or someone else tweaks the Xpress 200 chipset.

    Fact is, that's the HACK I was talking about, and it's not supported despite the reality that it may work to some degree (remember HKePC didn't get it to work WELL, just work). And if you know of the HKePC review then you should know by the article that AGP is not officially supported by ATi.

    You can continue to try to whitewash those statements you made by reditecting to due dates and such, but you were incorrect, and using someone else's unreleated mistake to try and justify yours doesn't cut it.


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  18. Quote:
    fact is, those people at Newegg are discovering they do not have a CF ready card.


    WTF is your point? That if a third party vendor makes a typo, it diminished the quality of the manufacturers product?

    Does that mean that if I open up an e-store and offer a ficticious Sli-ready AGP Geforce 5200, will that make Nvidia suck?

    That's retarded.

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  19. I'm wondering the same thing myself. What is he seeing that the rest of us aren't? I do NOT see the words 'Crossfire ready' anywhere on any of those links he provided.

    *Shrug*

    <font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
  20. yup, my thought's exactly.

    <A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=658042" target="_new">3DMark05</A> <A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3781954" target="_new">3DMark03</A>
  21. #1 I am not sure why the newegg links keep changing. I know how to link, but everytime that darn URL takes you to a different place.

    #2 I am trying to tell you that many buyers of the AGP version of the card thought they were buying CF ready ones. That is a reality, but whether they are dumb or not is NOT my point.

    #3 mentioning a date that is incorrect just means not everything on a web site is true or accurate. And what's more is that many things are supported but not stated. And likewise many things are NOT "officially" supported and not stated. When I saw the Newegg error, though I don't own the card, I figured that a board might come along and make it work.

    #4 I am not trying to "whitewash" anything. I made an error which apparently is unforgiveable to you, then I mention that there exists users who think their AGP 850XTPE is CF ready when infact it is not. I just MAKE you aware of that. You just call them ignorant. But I am not wrong in that they exist. What's the point of going back and forth on that? I say they exist. You call them names.

    #5
    Quote:
    someone else's unreleated mistake


    In this world, places on the internet sale things. They often give little details about the thing. Happens all the time. People get their information by reading these sites. From time to time sites have the wrong information. What happens from there is any number of things. But in the end, people get the wrong stuff sometimes and when they do, they are pissed. Bottom line.


    cleeve,

    Quote:
    WTF is your point? That if a third party vendor makes a typo, it diminished the quality of the manufacturers product?


    I don't think I implied that. Why are you so pissed? You ragged on me in another thread when I asked a question and then acted condescending towards me. That's not very nice.

    zoron,

    Quote:
    What is he seeing that the rest of us aren't?


    I can't figure it out either. Only thing I can say is go to Newegg, go to video cards, select AGP interface, select Radeon 850XTPE for the GPU and look at the resulting cards that show up. When you select one, you'll see (after customer reviews) the specs. Keep going down and you'll see some have "crossfire ready."


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  22. Quote:
    I don't think I implied that. Why are you so pissed? You ragged on me in another thread when I asked a question and then acted condescending towards me. That's not very nice.

    What exactly did you imply, then? That you can scour the net to find vendors who incorrectly quote specifications? That Nvidia vendors don't make typos? I don't think you implied either of those things, either. What exactly were you implying again?

    I'm ragging on you, knownalien, because you are citing petty, rediculous, and undefensible complaints and arguments that are obviously one-sided against Ati.

    You're quite clearly coming from a perch of fanboi-inspired pessimism, and frankly, I'm not being very nice because I find your kind of subvertive BS very distasteful.

    So forgive my condescention, please, and I'll forgive you for making whiney fanboi posts, assuming you stop making them.

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  23. your post reeks of someone who realizes they had nothing to be mad about, and now are trying to justify being really rude to a poster (who's argument you apparently are not aware of outside of the jist of my writing) who really bothers you and you will take out all the hatred you have for OTHER people who make a single mistake and have an opinion on the internet on me.

    Let's go back and find my mistake, the one that earned your disfavor:

    Quote:
    Another sad thing is that this was meant to be a boon to those who already had a "crossfire" ready 800 or 850 card. They paid a premium for that. MANY bought the AGP version.

    - knownalien

    Ape already corrected me on this. My source was a mistake at Newegg's site. Hardly uncommon for people to do.

    Quote:
    And you have to buy Xpress 200 mobos which frankly are nothing to write home about compared to Nforce4.

    - knownalien

    For the socket 754 boards, that's kinda true.

    Quote:
    Also, I do NOT think the master card can be used by itself.

    - knownalien

    you corrected that too pointing to the Xbitlabs I had not yet seen.

    We were doing fine, till you saw me say the FACT that people will be pissed because of Newegg's error. That's it! Is it ATI's fault? I never claimed it was. It was Newegg's.

    lastly,
    Quote:
    your kind of subvertive BS very distasteful

    - cleeve

    I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

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  24. Quote:
    Ape already corrected me on this. My source was a mistake at Newegg's site. Hardly uncommon for people to do.

    Yes, we all make mistakes. The problem is when we don't admit to them. i.e. after grape corrected you, you continued to complain about it instead of simply admitting your mistake:

    Quote:
    fact is, those people at Newegg are discovering they do not have a CF ready card.

    I apologize, but how exactly am I supposed to understand that your continuing complaints equal a retraction on your part? Because it sure as hell looks like you were whining about it, as opposed to humbly conceding the point.

    Also, as stated previously, you complained about Ati's card/GPU naming scheme without even mentioning that Nvidia's is essentially identical.

    So are you saying you weren't aware that Nvidias GPU naming scheme is as nonsensical as Ati's? Pardon me but it seems like you posess just a bit more information about videocards than that.

    So why single out Ati in your complaint? Seems quite suspect from where I'm sitting.

    There, now you have an idea what I meant by "subvertive BS".

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  25. Quote:
    you complained about Ati's card/GPU naming

    I asked!! not complained for Christ's sake!!!

    Quote:
    Pardon me but it seems like you posess just a bit more information about videocards than that.

    you give me too much credit, and I am sure you'll have no issues taking that credit back.

    Quote:
    after grape corrected you, you continued to complain about it

    I did not. I merely showed him that my source was Newegg and not ATI and that I was confused by the discrepancy*. I was wrong. Based on Newegg, however, others will likely be misinformed too. That is a very probable fact. In fact, that's my only point at this point.


    *even H.A.L. 2000 can become confused.
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    Windows XP<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by knownalien on 09/29/05 05:13 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
  26. When someone says "Why does something suck?" it is what is commonly known as a passive agressive complaint.
    And it still begs to ask, why not direct that question about every card maker instead of singling out Ati?

    Are you saying that you could cite R-series VPUs but had had absolutely no idea that Nvidia named their GPUs Nv30, Nv35, Nv40, G70? Because if you have no knowledge of that, I will happily take all that credit back.

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  27. Quote:
    I made an error which apparently is unforgiveable to you,

    LOL!

    That's definitely not the case. I'll grind you into the ground on this until the end. But I won't hold it against you unless it looks like a pattern or you're specifically trying to spam the forum with FUD etc.

    I won't hold this thread against you or something, but I'm not about to forgive you in the middle of a discussion where you're not going to back down from your position either. I'm not a saint, but I do forgive, just never forget. Did I grind you in the other thread? No. So I'd say that statement doesn't reflect the true situation which is what I'm saying about the other comments in this thread.

    Quote:
    But I am not wrong in that they exist. What's the point of going back and forth on that? I say they exist. You call them names.

    But that's not what you are portraying here, even if that is your goal. There may be a communication gap here, but I don't think I'm the only person who gets the impression that you think somehow ATi is responsible for their ignorance based on lack of research.

    Quote:
    But in the end, people get the wrong stuff sometimes and when they do, they are pissed. Bottom line.

    And the bootom line is while that's unfortunate it's not ATI's fault. As long as their site is correct then it is up to thge consumer to edjucate themselves. Caveat Emptor works in this industry especially, just think about the SEs and LEs and different types of XTs, etc.

    BTW, I've checked NewEgg and I don't see what you're seeing on any of theo X8xx AGP cards.


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  28. Quote:
    your post reeks of someone who realizes they had nothing to be mad about, and now are trying to justify being really rude to a poster

    The fact that you want to attack Cleeve shows you're in a bad spot. I agree with what he said, and furthermore that statement about him having nothing to be mad about, I don't think he's mad jsut sick and tired of the fly-by-night FUD-packers who pick sides instead of sticking with the facts.

    It's funny how much this has progressed while I was on lunch. Gotta read the rest before I could possibly reply, because I want to know what I'm commenting on before doing so.


    - You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internët account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil:
  29. Quote:
    The fact that you want to attack Cleeve shows you're in a bad spot.

    I am attacking him?!!! nope. yeah I'm in a bad position. I made a couple of mistakes and have 2 posters (possibly 3) pissed because I did not admit wrong doing in a timely fashion pursuant to their standards.


    Quote:
    I agree with what he said,

    I am shocked!


    Quote:
    and furthermore that statement about him having nothing to be mad about,

    it's an internet forum! an inherently imperfect way to communicate. Be mad? It's not like I went to his house and punched his mother! I made some errors! That's really a reason? From both of you there must exist some pent up rage really cumulative from OTHERS that is getting vented on me. Like you are going to make sure I regret opening my mouth to make up for all those other losers in this world whom you've had it in for. Because the quickness that you two have gone from "hello" to "you stupid [-peep-]" is nearly unprecendented!

    Quote:
    I don't think he's mad jsut sick and tired of the fly-by-night FUD-packers who pick sides instead of sticking with the facts.

    he admitted that we all make mistakes. You said so too. You know what mistakes are, so why am I being treated differently? Because I type fast? Because I had time to sit here and rebuttle?

    Quote:
    It's funny how much this has progressed while I was on lunch.

    kinda. I wanted to learn and take part. Instead I was marginalized and made to be ashame that I do not act as others expect me to nor have the knowledge they have.

    Quote:
    Gotta read the rest before I could possibly reply, because I want to know what I'm commenting on before doing so.

    judging from your last post, it won't be favorable to me.

    I'll save you the trouble, don't read anything I wrote in this thread because you are just going to #1 disagree with it and #2 get really pissed!


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  30. Quote:
    At the end of the [-peep-] day, it's the performance that matters.

    to be honest, I would sacrifice performance for future upgradability. the classic "buying for tommorrow" even if it is a pipe dream.

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  31. dude, seriously youre not making yourself look good(in any form) in this thread...

    <A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com/nutshell.mp3" target="_new">"Like a scrotum, there it is in a nutshell."</A>
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  32. Quote:
    dude, seriously youre not making yourself look good(in any form) in this thread...


    so what do you want me to do? leave?

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  33. nah dude, i didnt mean to imply that at all, stay as long as you like. just sometimes you need to know alittle moderation in posting, thats all. :wink:

    <A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com/nutshell.mp3" target="_new">"Like a scrotum, there it is in a nutshell."</A>
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  34. well, I've been to this site since 11/18/02* (look when I registered) and seeing as how this is the FIRST time I have made such grave errors (I hear that's ok to do these days) I think I am still a learner and contributor. ;)


    *I first saw THG big black computer book in a bookstore in 2000 or so.

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  35. its cool man, hell i prolly make more mistakes than anyone here, but im not going to sit there and argue my ignorance once im proven wrong though. waste of time on my part. im more of a learner than a contributor, lmao. :wink:

    <A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com/nutshell.mp3" target="_new">"Like a scrotum, there it is in a nutshell."</A>
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  36. Errors are fine, assuming they are acknowledged as previously stated.

    What's not fine is singling out a manufacturer and nitpicking.

    But it's always possible that I'm wrong as well as anybody else, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt if you like.

    But to explain my previous behavior, up until this point, you've made negative comments toward Ati without mentioning the competition at all in instances where they are guilty of the same insignificant trespasses.

    You never said "Oh really? I didn't know Nvidia had a same nonsensical GPU naming scheme! They should all get their act together!"

    You never said "Wow, those newegg guys really screwed over their customers!"

    The spin you've been putting on your rebuttals is more in the flavor of "Well, how could Ati let Newegg do that?", or of simply avoiding the question when I directly asked if you were aware that Nvidia's naming scheme was similarly nonsensical compared to Ati's - whose VPU naming scheme you have proven yourself aware of.

    So like I said, everyone makes mistakes. And if I've mistaken your poor communication for brand fanaticism, I truly apologize. I heartily encourage you to participate on the boards and share your opinions, and in time I'm sure your impartiality will shine through. Everyone rubs someone the wrong way when they start out on a forum, due to differences in communication styles. But people seem to figure it out over time.

    However, if you are shown to be consistantly impartial in the long haul, I can assure you that you will be similarly criticized during your stay here.

    But I hope that's not he case, and I hold no grudge. Welcome to the boards, knownalien. I hope the rest of your stay is more pleasant.

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  37. thank you.

    I thought that in one of the 1000 or so words I typed in this thread I said that (or implied) NewEgg fvcked up here and customers were gonna be pissed with them. Some incorrectly at ATI too.
    I give no slack to Newegg. They do stuff like this a lot. I buy nearly everything I have from Newegg. They owe me free shipping but won't do it, so yeah I got no love for them right now. But in about a month I'm gonna drop about $1000 on them, so . . . well, there it is.

    I am glad I waited to see how this first generation CF thing works.

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  38. Yeah, sometimes it's good to wait, although in this case I suspect alot of CF hopefuls would have been better served going for SLI some time ago, because CF took so bloody long to appear.

    But even though CF looks unattractive at this point, I would point out that it looks unattractive with cards that will be rendered obsolescent in 3 days or so...

    The real test with CF will be with the X1800 series, I reckon.

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  39. Did you grab my A5S :eek: Someone keeps grabbing my A5S :tongue:

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  40. sir its a physical impossibility for me to grab your A5S from here...[/NATR]

    <A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com/nutshell.mp3" target="_new">"Like a scrotum, there it is in a nutshell."</A>
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  41. HMM! Must be DH playing Grab ARSE again :lol: We have got to get DH a steady women[/POC?]

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  42. Quote:
    Then you're clearly a money wasting idiot.


    so many things out there perform VERY closely to a competitor. You have to think, in this imagined scenario, would you give up 5 frames per second less than another board (at 120 fps) if the "slower" board was offering SATA III, HDMI 1.1, 1 PCI slot, 3 PCI-e, 1 PCI-e X1, 1 PCI-e X4, and (here's the kicker) a socket that accepted a card for a future upcoming CPU socket not yet out? That's what I mean. Bells and whistles? Sure. But it's a tiny hit in speed when there exists on that board the possibility to surpass the "faster" board within a year. You said, it's about performance. True. And to me, the "future" is part of that performance.
    We're kinda seeing that now with all of these X1 and X4 PCI-e slots and many of us are scratching our collective heads wondering what to do with those slots. Wondering when the periphials for those slots will come out. If they'll be any good. Or was is just another "Intel ATX 2.xx standard" later abandoned??

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  43. I hope this isn't a indication of what ATI is going to do with the new 520 cards.

    <A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26586" target="_new">http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26586</A>
  44. Quote:
    I was surprised they launched it - but how can you launch something when the very market you're trying to target hasn't seen or touched a board? Until then it's unlikely (make that impossible) that we'll add it to our systems."

    well, to be blunt, it's not a new technology that ATI had any hopes people would jump on and buy. It is clear that their market is anyone who bought an X800 or X850 card on a mobo with the Xpress200 chipset. Because in my mind I suspect that is a small amount (because the X8xx will work by themselves on any PCI-e board), I think ATI has waved bye bye to that segment some time ago. On their site it says something like "1 million are already ready for CF" but that is based on sales possibly of the graphics cards. But there is not certainty that those card owners also own a xpress200 chipset mobo. In fact, maybe I am numb nuts, but they are not easy to find. not good ones anyway! Newegg has 4 such boards with the chipset but not the hardware to use two PCI-e X16 cards. Nay, anyone who wanted to build a CF system from scratch would be hard pressed to know what to buy.

    I guess I gotta say, this first version of the CF was really an aborted attempt that they attempted to salvage. It really is D.O.A. they broke nearly every rule: 1) paper launch; 2) submit subpar technology; 3) be late; 4) launch without the hardware in stock.

    this ATI launch is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen since following this kind of stuff.

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  45. Wow... First I'ld like to say it's nice to see the discussion is back on track and not a battle between users. Anyway. Yeah, since my first post in this thread I've searched the pages in norway for ATI CF master cards, but none has appeared. This is not saying anything about the availability of the x1800 cards and their possible CF master cards. Nvidia had mostly done paper launches, eventhough I got my coolfx 6800ultra fairly quick after launch date, until the 7800GTX release. Here in Norway things arrive late (possible due to a small market share? :)), but I was very surprised to see the 7800gtx available from major webshops on launch day...

    Still the x1800 is not my upgrade path, still waiting for the part after that... then I'll upgrade if the performance is good... Things are allready running fast enough, and with 16x12 (lcd) as max, I'm not really in need of anything, perhaps 1 7800gtx card'll cut it, but nahh I'm happy for now.

    Have a nice day
  46. it's not just the unavailability of the CF masters, but the mobos too! Or do I have it wrong? You need the Xpress200 chipset, but you also need 2 PCI-e X16 slots and I can't find one at Newegg who usually get the new stuff in really fast.

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  47. True, you need the xpress200 chipset and 2x16 pcie for CF. The boards are scheduled to arrive here in norway sometime between now and november (the non CF boards seem to be scheduled for early october, whilst the CF xpress200 boards seems to be scheduled for early november, atleast here in norway).


    <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by hasse on 10/03/05 05:05 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
  48. refresh rate is minor at best. 60hz is typical for LCD screens.

    It won't make any difference between 60hz or 85hz unless you are reallllly concerned about your eyesite. If you have an LCD its a non-issue anyway.

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  49. typically defaulted to 60 though and its recommended that you leave it at 60 to keep the lifespan of the LCD, so i thought.

    <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
  50. Quote:
    If you have an LCD its a non-issue anyway.

    Not for everyone. With the refresh rates lowering, you're going to have some people experiencing the same annoying conflict effects with fluorescent lights you had with CRTs.

    In which case switching to a non 60hz refresh could help.


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