[SOLVED] SSD vs HD

musical marv · Jul 16, 2011

SSD vs HD for ordinary computer usage which is better to use with a MBP 13 inch 2011 model? thanks

calmstateofmind · Jul 18, 2011

If you're just using the mac for general tasks (e-mail, internet, flash games, etc) I'd stick with the HDD.

You'll only need a SSD if you're spending long amounts of time reading/writing to the disk. Examples would be burning A LOT of movies, video/photo editing, etc.

If you really want to increase performance, get more RAM. Don't waste the money, keep the HDD.

halcyon · Jul 18, 2011

calmstateofmind :

I can't quite agree with that. I use an SSD (or RAIDed SSDs) in all my Macs...from this old 2007 17" Macbook Pro up to the 2010 Mac Pro. Marv, an SSD will make your entire MacBook Pro feel faster, from startup to launching programs to web browsing. Why? Because your drive is constantly being used. Caching...virtual memory...all of it uses the drive. ...and the faster the drive...the faster your system. Enough of that, this isn't SSD 101

Your 2011 MacBook Pro supports SATA 3, the latest. So, your very best performance will come from an OCZ Vertex 3. These will also be your most expensive drives. There are a lot good SSDs right now. Those with the SandForce controllers seem to be very popular and perform very well. I've used OCZ Vertex 2 or Vertex 3 drives in my 4 Macs and all perform well (even though the Vertex 2 in this 17" is wasted as it only supports SATA I...but its still faster than a HDD would be and its noticable).

The simple answer is, yes, you can benefit from an SSD, IMHO. ...even the very latest. I wouldn't recommend getting anything cheap though. Think about how much you're willing to spend and how much capacity you really need.

If you're willing to make some compromise between ultimate SSD performance and the capacity you'd get with a HDD then look at the Seagate Momentus XT Hybrid SSD/HDD. It gets pretty good reviews.

Hope this helps

musical marv · Jul 18, 2011

halcyon :

I can't quite agree with that. I use an SSD (or RAIDed SSDs) in all my Macs...from this old 2007 17" Macbook Pro up to the 2010 Mac Pro. Marv, an SSD will make your entire MacBook Pro feel faster, from startup to launching programs to web browsing. Why? Because your drive is constantly being used. Caching...virtual memory...all of it uses the drive. ...and the faster the drive...the faster your system. Enough of that, this isn't SSD 101

Your 2011 MacBook Pro supports SATA 3, the latest. So, your very best performance will come from an OCZ Vertex 3. These will also be your most expensive drives. There are a lot good SSDs right now. Those with the SandForce controllers seem to be very popular and perform very well. I've used OCZ Vertex 2 or Vertex 3 drives in my 4 Macs and all perform well (even though the Vertex 2 in this 17" is wasted as it only supports SATA I...but its still faster than a HDD would be and its noticable).

The simple answer is, yes, you can benefit from an SSD, IMHO. ...even the very latest. I wouldn't recommend getting anything cheap though. Think about how much you're willing to spend and how much capacity you really need.

If you're willing to make some compromise between ultimate SSD performance and the capacity you'd get with a HDD then look at the Seagate Momentus XT Hybrid SSD/HDD. It gets pretty good reviews.

Hope this helps

Thanks for this informative knowledge.I will think about getting a SSD eventually.It is a different animal completely I hear from people.marv

halcyon · Jul 18, 2011

musical marv :

It is indeed and I think you'll love the performance. My 2011 MacBook Pro literally starts up in less than 20 seconds. It just make a machine feel much faster.

RetiredChief · Jul 18, 2011

Total space is the break point for SSD vs HDD. If you require more than 120 Gigs, stay with the HDD otherwise go with the SSD as Performance gain is great. Have 3 laptops that I use all now have a SSD - would not think of going back. In addition to performance, most of the SSDs draw less power.

Would recommend that you look ar the reviews on New egg for compatability with the mac (I hav PC based laptops) - very Important if going with the SATA III SSDs.

While the Vertex III may have the "king of the SSDs" for performance, there really is not that big of a difference in real life.
Ref: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-ssd-caching,2966-7.html
Quote As a point of comparison, a file operation completes 85% faster on a low-end SSD than it does on a high-end hard drive, but there is only an 88% speed difference between a high-end hard drive and a high-end SSD. End quote
Vertex III used the SF22xx controller; has the highest Sequencial read/write performance, but this is the least important parameter. This applies to all SF22xx Controller based SSD.
Should also visit the OCZ Forum and look at the Comments regarding this series - my take "Plug-&-Pray"
At this time Only recommending the Marvel based controller SSds and the Sata II SSDs, excluding the Intel 320 (until they resolve the "Bug" which causes the SSD to decrease to 8 Mbs and ofcoaurse you loss all data on it (Ouch).

halcyon · Jul 18, 2011

I'm using a Vertex 3 in my 2011 MacBook Pro (same class of machine as Marv) and the performance is good. In OS X SL TRIM is not natively supported but the drive still seems to perform pretty well and I'm satisfied.

RetiredChief · Jul 18, 2011

Yes, that looks good, but (correct me if I'm wrong) that is for large file, mostly Sequential.
OCZ Vertex 3 is great for compressible data, but not much better on uncompressible data such as used by the AS-SSD bench mark.

Seq read/write performance is very important for a Data disk and when working with large files such as Video: DVD 1 gig, Blu-ray up to 40 gig, large spreadsheets, cad/cam drawings and photos (large jpeg/bitmap files).
For a Boot drive and programs it is the small file random that is important. With the typical 120->128 gig SSD, the files that benefit from seq are on the HDD.

A quote from the manfactor's Rep to user who stated good Seq, but Random, not so good. "Hello, the new drive versions may be faster in some respects, but whether you will actually notice the difference in day to day use is debatable.”
This is backed up by looking more at "real world" tests (both at anandtech and Tom's) than pure benchmark results.

From new egg, Sata III drives, 120->128, Gig with 40 or more respondents.
.. Vertex III ....... 126 - 26% 1/2 egg
.. Agility III .......... 51 - 47 % 1/2 eggs
.. Vetex III Max ... 78 - 19 %

Compared to:
.. Intel 510 ........ 101 - 11%
.. Crucial C300 ... 347 - 7%
.. Plextor PXM2 .... 41 - 5%
.. Crucial M4 ......... 69 - 2%

(A)..The rational when looking at Agility III or vertex III is that they are user caused which is probably true, but that same statement would be true for the Marvel controller based Sata III SSDs and does not justify the LARGE disparity of dissatisfied users.
(B).. Go through the reviews looking specifically for Mac laptops for SF22xx SSDs then compare to Marvel based SSD - speaks for itself.
(C).. for the small increase in performance on the day-to-day usage, there is NO way I'd recommend the SF22xx based SSDs until they improve.

(D)..As to OCZ, well they lost my endorsement with the very poor resolution of the problem. OCZ states that it only effects about 1% (There number, not mine) and they still do not have a solution. FW 1.09 solved some, but still left people with stuttering. Causing BSOD, and/or degraded performance and my impression is No biggy. When the SF22xx problems are fixed, I WILL buy, just not OCZ.

PS: I have 7 SSDs installed; THE only one I've had a problem with is the OCZ Agility III.

musical marv · Jul 19, 2011

RetiredChief :

Yes, that looks good, but (correct me if I'm wrong) that is for large file, mostly Sequential.
OCZ Vertex 3 is great for compressible data, but not much better on uncompressible data such as used by the AS-SSD bench mark.

Seq read/write performance is very important for a Data disk and when working with large files such as Video: DVD 1 gig, Blu-ray up to 40 gig, large spreadsheets, cad/cam drawings and photos (large jpeg/bitmap files).
For a Boot drive and programs it is the small file random that is important. With the typical 120->128 gig SSD, the files that benefit from seq are on the HDD.

A quote from the manfactor's Rep to user who stated good Seq, but Random, not so good. "Hello, the new drive versions may be faster in some respects, but whether you will actually notice the difference in day to day use is debatable.”
This is backed up by looking more at "real world" tests (both at anandtech and Tom's) than pure benchmark results.

From new egg, Sata III drives, 120->128, Gig with 40 or more respondents.
.. Vertex III ....... 126 - 26% 1/2 egg
.. Agility III .......... 51 - 47 % 1/2 eggs
.. Vetex III Max ... 78 - 19 %

Compared to:
.. Intel 510 ........ 101 - 11%
.. Crucial C300 ... 347 - 7%
.. Plextor PXM2 .... 41 - 5%
.. Crucial M4 ......... 69 - 2%

(A)..The rational when looking at Agility III or vertex III is that they are user caused which is probably true, but that same statement would be true for the Marvel controller based Sata III SSDs and does not justify the LARGE disparity of dissatisfied users.
(B).. Go through the reviews looking specifically for Mac laptops for SF22xx SSDs then compare to Marvel based SSD - speaks for itself.
(C).. for the small increase in performance on the day-to-day usage, there is NO way I'd recommend the SF22xx based SSDs until they improve.

(D)..As to OCZ, well they lost my endorsement with the very poor resolution of the problem. OCZ states that it only effects about 1% (There number, not mine) and they still do not have a solution. FW 1.09 solved some, but still left people with stuttering. Causing BSOD, and/or degraded performance and my impression is No biggy. When the SF22xx problems are fixed, I WILL buy, just not OCZ.

PS: I have 7 SSDs installed; THE only one I've had a problem with is the OCZ Agility III.

Another important factor is the ISP connection I presume.

halcyon · Jul 19, 2011

musical marv :

The only connection between this topic and your ISP is in general performance experienced on your laptop. If internet activity is your primary use than the quality of your ISP has a factor. An SSD affects the general responsiveness of your laptop but will not make your internet connection faster. That's up to your ISP...so, in a round-about-way you presume correctly.

applegetsmelaid · Jul 19, 2011

After I put in an intel X25M in my MBP Facebook and Yahoo ran much smoother. I highly recommend it.

RetiredChief · Jul 19, 2011

I would 2nd that, The "older" Intel G2 is a great drive. have one that I've moved around: first as the boot drive for I5-750 (replaced with pheonix pro), then as a data drive in the I5 aqnd most recently as the Boot drive form My SB Notebook (Bought the Agility III which did not work). The Intel 320 replaces the X25M and the X25M isgetting harder to find (newegg is out of stock).

Ordered the Curcuial M4 128 Gig (Has some problems, but nowares neer OCZ) last night - here's hoping!!!

halcyon · Jul 20, 2011

I guess I've been really lucky that I've never had a problem with any OCZ Vertex 2 or Vertex 3 drives. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

RetiredChief · Jul 20, 2011

Not heard about much problems with the vetrtex II, not more than other sata II (excluding the Intel G2/X25M line ).
When it first came out almost bought it, but opted for the Pheonix Pro - same controller.

musical marv · Jul 20, 2011

halcyon :

Where can you buy these SSD used? thanks marv

halcyon · Jul 20, 2011

musical marv :

That's an interesting thought...a used SSD.

RetiredChief · Jul 20, 2011

New, and used
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1311&_nkw=ssd+drive&_sacat=See-All-Categories
Or just go to ebay and do a search for SSDs - Several catagories will pop up Like Intel, ect

Some caution, Know what you are getting. EX: Dane-Elec 80 GB Laptop Solid State Drive (SSD) Kit (Link below) Current bid is $41, Buy it Now is $129.
It does not Identify the SSD (Use to say Intel)-But what they left off was that it was the G1. I bought one shortly after the G2 came out, when I got it I found out it was the G1 after I recieved it, which does not support trim. For what it's worth, I'm still using it in a laptop that I use at work - No problems, just not as fast as the newer Sata II, still better than a HDD.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dane-Elec-80-GB-Laptop-Solid-State-Drive-SSD-Kit-/130547075270?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e653648c6

You may start to see some of the Newer SATA III start to show up as users who are having problems switch to a different on. Users that have the Sata II and buy a sata III (like I'm doing) as a replacement; If the Sata II drive is still good will migrate the drive to a data disk.

A comment made to me by the Loan officer at my CU several years ago. Was asking about a used car they had (Repossessed)- Her Comment -"No, rode hard and put up wet" May also apply to SSds

halcyon · Jul 20, 2011

That's why I responded that way, sometimes I'm overly efficient with words. I would never want a used SSD...or a used HDD for that matter. ...not knowing what the previous owner did to or what condition its really in.

musical marv · Jul 21, 2011

halcyon :

Thanks for your answer.Incidentally are you going to download the new Lion OS now as it came out already today?

halcyon · Jul 21, 2011

I'll download it in the next couple of days...I'm really not all that excited by it. The only thing it really has that I'm looking forward to is TRIM support for SSDs.

JustSomeJoe · Jul 21, 2011

Using Lion at the moment, using a Crucial M4, so far it appears (as with Snow Leopard) you only get TRIM support if you have an Apple SSD; it's (very) early days so this could well change...

halcyon · Jul 22, 2011

JustSomeJoe :

I didn't think I'd care for Lion...but I like it...a lot. It does some neat things. I thought the whole "works like iOS" would be stupid...but its actually slick. I'm saddened and I'm disappointed in myself...but I like it. I like my MBP more with 10.7 than with 10.6.8

Now I have 3 other machines to upgrade...legally for $30. I hate you Apple.

musical marv · Jul 22, 2011

halcyon :

How can you like something and then say you do not care for it? I heard Lion has some flaws in some apps also.

halcyon · Jul 22, 2011

musical marv :

Its a lighthearted tone. I want to dislike Apple ...but I don't.

musical marv · Jul 23, 2011

halcyon :

I understand it is a love hate relationship. Maybe you can really help me I own no credit card at all and I want to download the LION OS how can I if I only have debit cards? This sucks on Apple's part really. Thanks Marv

[SOLVED] SSD vs HD

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