Thinking of upgrading plain old TNT card. Want to loose add on DVD MPEG2 card and run with only one card. Want to be able to play DVD on TV. Wanna record from VCR or other video source to MPG4 or MPG2. Do play games but find TNT card just fine for Unreal, Half-Life, Quake1 and Quake2. Will definitely buy Duke Nukem Forever when/if it ever comes out. Run win98se and Mandrake Linux. Run games at 600x800. Don’t care about 1200x1600. Don’t care about anything over 50fps. Since emphasis is on DVD/video thinking ATI Radeon. Suggestions? Please God nothing from Hobbit.
- Dec 31, 2007
- 48,594
- 91
- 66,190
Yeah, get the Radeon. It is at least twice the card you have now (probably more like 4 times) and gives you what you want. A lot of guys are giving great reports on theirs. And just you don't end up like Hobbit, maybe you should just use 98SE or ME.
Suicide is painless...........
Suicide is painless...........
Not a Flame Dude Just keeping you informed and others that may read this thread looking for a better card.
ATI FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE
Epiphanic Lucidity
Read what I have to say and make your own decision.
I will never buy another ATI product. ATI consistently provides drivers that suck. The new ATI Radeons suck… the drivers don’t work for scat on win2k. Driver updates are non-existent as in the past. They have no toll free tech support, so when you get it and it doesn’t work right your in for a long wait before it does. Their new Radeon cards ship with win2k drivers, which don’t work properly. If you want to feel scat on buy Radeon.
NOTE: I bought two of the ATI AIW Radeon cards for two systems both identical accept in the amount of ram and a few different peripherals. Neither card worked on either system properly. Don’t believe me take a look around people, are starting to figure it out for themselves. Some people will say I should stop complaining and switch to a different operating system like win98SE. Those same people are enabling ATI to get away with this crap. No I never tested with win98SE or WinME because that was not my OS and I am not going to switch to a different OS for ATI, lol that is so funny especially when the ATI AIW Radeon ships with win2k full release drivers. Anyone who says you should switch OS’s to make the card work is just plain out to lunch.
Win2kPro
Asus CUSL2
P3 700 (Not OC) Not, necessary really. Can do 933 fine though.
320MB SDRAM PC133 Cas2
SBLive Platinum 5.1
2 Maxtor 45GB AT100 7200
Adaptec 2930 scsi controller
Maxtor AT100 Controller
Toshiba 8x DVD
Plextor Plexwriter 8/20
Linksys 10/100 Ethernet Card
Linksys 10/100 Hub
Linksys Router (Tried it and it = Crap)
Previously Owned two V3 3500TV’s which didn’t support Win2k initially but has supported it for about half a year now and EVERYTHING worked even with the beta drivers, unlike ATI which released their newer card with Win2k drivers which don’t work with 70% of the card properly.
I wish I still had a copy of the long and detailed report I typed out to them concerning problems with their card. In the phone calls to them (which the customer pays for) they could not help me but were interested in my errors as some had already been reported and some were new to them and some helped them figure out more in detail why certain errors would occur. They encouraged a detailed write up. I did them a favor at my own expense and time and then they replied with we will only fix problems reported to a significant degree… Only if customers complain enough will they bother fixing problem. What a joke. In other words they know of problems but are not fixing them until their customers really start complaining in droves.
Under win2k these are the problems I encountered. All games I tried using OpenGL which is “fully”supported by ATI “Full OpenGL® and Microsoft® DirectX® support.” of which I probably own 40 have graphics that look like [-peep-] and are too dark which cannot be fixed without second hand programs or special tweaking instructions/editing of CFG files etc... (3DFX had a Gamma slider allowing you to brighten or darken Direct 3d or OpenGL games independently besides the desktop quickly solving this problem. Direct3d, which works on some games, looks like crap on some (examples: Diablo 2, Quake one) and good on others… Compare Diablo 2 using OpenGL with a voodoo card versus Radeon Direct3d ((pixilated and snowy), (Radeon fails if you try OpenGL). TV looks good but the downloading of the TV schedule fails half the time. TV out onscreen ATI software controls for turning the TV on and off do not work at all. When you plug in your Svideo your automatically outputting your pc signal to your TV and cannot switch it on and off like you’re supposed to be able to on your pc, instead you have to reboot!, but there is more… Furthermore once you view your pc on you TV your graphics no longer fit your pc monitor screen and you end up using your mouse to scroll to areas on the peripheral of your pc monitor you cant see any longer unless you scroll there. This problem is terrible since you cannot use the controls that come with the card to switch back to using the monitor as the screen properly. What happens is that you get stuck with this scrolling problem and it doesn’t go away even when you reboot. The only way I found to fix it is to completely uninstall the drivers and then reinstall them and then set the monitor resolution low to like 640x480 and then reset it back up to whatever you want. You see upon rebooting and reinstalling the drivers the problem is still there but now if you change the resolution down to 640x480 and then back up to whatever you want it set things back to normal. This is very time consuming process. ATI never even replied to this particular problem. DVD playback, which is hardware driven stutters! This I couldn’t believe and was the last straw because I thought that at least worked when I first watched the beginning of the Matrix for about 30 seconds to see if it was working. Later I go to show a friend and it is stuttering as we watch it for a few minutes. Mpeg4 playback fails! ATI was aware of the Mpeg4 playback failures but has not fixed this problem yet! This card is a nightmare folks! I have forgotten much of what I wrote them detailing errors received and better descriptions of the problems but this should be enough to explain what a piece of crap ATI is foisting. Foisting (Webster): “To give somebody something inferior: to give somebody something inferior on the pretence that it is genuine, valuable, or desirable.” A good synonym for foisting would be FRAUD.
After spending about four hours total on the phone with them and getting them all the information they wanted I get no reassurances. All I get is hopefully we will have an answer to some of these problems in the future. Blah Blah Blah. Month goes by and nothing ß means no working driver updates that fix the milieu of problems. Many people have posted on Tomshardware as to the untrustworthy nature of ATI concerning drivers and their inability to act quickly to fix driver problems. I now know what they were talking about first hand. Don’t make the same mistake. How can you purchase a card that ships with Win2k drivers today and have it not work in everything properly accept TV in? When it takes half a year to fix all the problems on such a product why bother buying it since by that time the card will be selling for less than half what you paid for it and will be half as fast as newer cards on the market. ATI is going the way of the Dodos if they continue with this irresponsible behavior.
An email I sent ATI in response to a customer support reply that was more useless than the long distance phone support.
Thank you very much for you're very kind reply... I find the information I have provided your company with at my expense much more valuable to you than the information you have provided me. Reiteration of solutions I have already tried does neither of us any good. I have returned both cards to the original retailer. In the future please refrain from releasing unfinished products. I and other customers regard such actions as unlawful. I can no longer recommend your products due to poor driver performance under win2k (I have not tested any other OS nor do I wish to do so as your product ships with supposed perfect win2k drivers), which I have tested extensively. The long list of problems with your drivers is tiresome. DVD play, which I previously thought, worked perfectly stutters randomly. In the future please don't rely on your customer base to solve your problems for you because in the end you lose valuable promotional commentary along with a good customer. No need to reply I just thought you should know how thoroughly disgusted I am with your product and your company.
Interesting Article in Worth magazine Jan 2001, by Eric Alterman.
(How I feel)
Quote:
“”This “screw the consumer’s time, it’s not costing us anything” attitude appears to exist across the entire spectrum of new technology industries. I bought a scanner from UMAX that has never worked. There’s nobody at the other end to help, at least nobody I had the patience to find. The ugly thing has been sitting on my desk, unused, for two years. And have you tried to hook up a DSL line recently” I have, and I had to give up on that, too. It turned out Verizon, the new beast created out of Bell Atlantic’s merger with just about everybody else, had not yet come up with a modem compatible with Windows Me, though apparently it neglected to mention that to the person on the phone who was all to willing to take an order and let the caller waste hours trying to make the damn thing work. Chris Taylor of Time recently wrote of spending almost six months stuck inside a similar nightmare courtesy of Pacific Bell, which given its location, really ought to know better. The truth was that the company did not even offer the service, called D-Slam, that it had promised him, as it had run out of the hardware, but it continued to advertise it because, a rep admitted, their “competitors haven’t stopped advertising yet: The worst of it is that the entire time you are wasting away on hold, watching your fingernails grow, the company brags about its new and improved service menu.
This whole sector of the economy feels like the Soviet Union: Long waiting lines, no service, contempt for the consumer, products that don’t work when shipped, but somebody with the power to create a little trouble for the big boys arrives, and everybody starts jumping. Of course, the obvious differences are that innovation barely existed in Soviet industries, while the computer manufacturers are just about the most innovative people of all time. But the net result turns out to be more suffering for the rest of us.””
ATI FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE
Epiphanic Lucidity
Read what I have to say and make your own decision.
I will never buy another ATI product. ATI consistently provides drivers that suck. The new ATI Radeons suck… the drivers don’t work for scat on win2k. Driver updates are non-existent as in the past. They have no toll free tech support, so when you get it and it doesn’t work right your in for a long wait before it does. Their new Radeon cards ship with win2k drivers, which don’t work properly. If you want to feel scat on buy Radeon.
NOTE: I bought two of the ATI AIW Radeon cards for two systems both identical accept in the amount of ram and a few different peripherals. Neither card worked on either system properly. Don’t believe me take a look around people, are starting to figure it out for themselves. Some people will say I should stop complaining and switch to a different operating system like win98SE. Those same people are enabling ATI to get away with this crap. No I never tested with win98SE or WinME because that was not my OS and I am not going to switch to a different OS for ATI, lol that is so funny especially when the ATI AIW Radeon ships with win2k full release drivers. Anyone who says you should switch OS’s to make the card work is just plain out to lunch.
Win2kPro
Asus CUSL2
P3 700 (Not OC) Not, necessary really. Can do 933 fine though.
320MB SDRAM PC133 Cas2
SBLive Platinum 5.1
2 Maxtor 45GB AT100 7200
Adaptec 2930 scsi controller
Maxtor AT100 Controller
Toshiba 8x DVD
Plextor Plexwriter 8/20
Linksys 10/100 Ethernet Card
Linksys 10/100 Hub
Linksys Router (Tried it and it = Crap)
Previously Owned two V3 3500TV’s which didn’t support Win2k initially but has supported it for about half a year now and EVERYTHING worked even with the beta drivers, unlike ATI which released their newer card with Win2k drivers which don’t work with 70% of the card properly.
I wish I still had a copy of the long and detailed report I typed out to them concerning problems with their card. In the phone calls to them (which the customer pays for) they could not help me but were interested in my errors as some had already been reported and some were new to them and some helped them figure out more in detail why certain errors would occur. They encouraged a detailed write up. I did them a favor at my own expense and time and then they replied with we will only fix problems reported to a significant degree… Only if customers complain enough will they bother fixing problem. What a joke. In other words they know of problems but are not fixing them until their customers really start complaining in droves.
Under win2k these are the problems I encountered. All games I tried using OpenGL which is “fully”supported by ATI “Full OpenGL® and Microsoft® DirectX® support.” of which I probably own 40 have graphics that look like [-peep-] and are too dark which cannot be fixed without second hand programs or special tweaking instructions/editing of CFG files etc... (3DFX had a Gamma slider allowing you to brighten or darken Direct 3d or OpenGL games independently besides the desktop quickly solving this problem. Direct3d, which works on some games, looks like crap on some (examples: Diablo 2, Quake one) and good on others… Compare Diablo 2 using OpenGL with a voodoo card versus Radeon Direct3d ((pixilated and snowy), (Radeon fails if you try OpenGL). TV looks good but the downloading of the TV schedule fails half the time. TV out onscreen ATI software controls for turning the TV on and off do not work at all. When you plug in your Svideo your automatically outputting your pc signal to your TV and cannot switch it on and off like you’re supposed to be able to on your pc, instead you have to reboot!, but there is more… Furthermore once you view your pc on you TV your graphics no longer fit your pc monitor screen and you end up using your mouse to scroll to areas on the peripheral of your pc monitor you cant see any longer unless you scroll there. This problem is terrible since you cannot use the controls that come with the card to switch back to using the monitor as the screen properly. What happens is that you get stuck with this scrolling problem and it doesn’t go away even when you reboot. The only way I found to fix it is to completely uninstall the drivers and then reinstall them and then set the monitor resolution low to like 640x480 and then reset it back up to whatever you want. You see upon rebooting and reinstalling the drivers the problem is still there but now if you change the resolution down to 640x480 and then back up to whatever you want it set things back to normal. This is very time consuming process. ATI never even replied to this particular problem. DVD playback, which is hardware driven stutters! This I couldn’t believe and was the last straw because I thought that at least worked when I first watched the beginning of the Matrix for about 30 seconds to see if it was working. Later I go to show a friend and it is stuttering as we watch it for a few minutes. Mpeg4 playback fails! ATI was aware of the Mpeg4 playback failures but has not fixed this problem yet! This card is a nightmare folks! I have forgotten much of what I wrote them detailing errors received and better descriptions of the problems but this should be enough to explain what a piece of crap ATI is foisting. Foisting (Webster): “To give somebody something inferior: to give somebody something inferior on the pretence that it is genuine, valuable, or desirable.” A good synonym for foisting would be FRAUD.
After spending about four hours total on the phone with them and getting them all the information they wanted I get no reassurances. All I get is hopefully we will have an answer to some of these problems in the future. Blah Blah Blah. Month goes by and nothing ß means no working driver updates that fix the milieu of problems. Many people have posted on Tomshardware as to the untrustworthy nature of ATI concerning drivers and their inability to act quickly to fix driver problems. I now know what they were talking about first hand. Don’t make the same mistake. How can you purchase a card that ships with Win2k drivers today and have it not work in everything properly accept TV in? When it takes half a year to fix all the problems on such a product why bother buying it since by that time the card will be selling for less than half what you paid for it and will be half as fast as newer cards on the market. ATI is going the way of the Dodos if they continue with this irresponsible behavior.
An email I sent ATI in response to a customer support reply that was more useless than the long distance phone support.
Thank you very much for you're very kind reply... I find the information I have provided your company with at my expense much more valuable to you than the information you have provided me. Reiteration of solutions I have already tried does neither of us any good. I have returned both cards to the original retailer. In the future please refrain from releasing unfinished products. I and other customers regard such actions as unlawful. I can no longer recommend your products due to poor driver performance under win2k (I have not tested any other OS nor do I wish to do so as your product ships with supposed perfect win2k drivers), which I have tested extensively. The long list of problems with your drivers is tiresome. DVD play, which I previously thought, worked perfectly stutters randomly. In the future please don't rely on your customer base to solve your problems for you because in the end you lose valuable promotional commentary along with a good customer. No need to reply I just thought you should know how thoroughly disgusted I am with your product and your company.
Interesting Article in Worth magazine Jan 2001, by Eric Alterman.
(How I feel)
Quote:
“”This “screw the consumer’s time, it’s not costing us anything” attitude appears to exist across the entire spectrum of new technology industries. I bought a scanner from UMAX that has never worked. There’s nobody at the other end to help, at least nobody I had the patience to find. The ugly thing has been sitting on my desk, unused, for two years. And have you tried to hook up a DSL line recently” I have, and I had to give up on that, too. It turned out Verizon, the new beast created out of Bell Atlantic’s merger with just about everybody else, had not yet come up with a modem compatible with Windows Me, though apparently it neglected to mention that to the person on the phone who was all to willing to take an order and let the caller waste hours trying to make the damn thing work. Chris Taylor of Time recently wrote of spending almost six months stuck inside a similar nightmare courtesy of Pacific Bell, which given its location, really ought to know better. The truth was that the company did not even offer the service, called D-Slam, that it had promised him, as it had run out of the hardware, but it continued to advertise it because, a rep admitted, their “competitors haven’t stopped advertising yet: The worst of it is that the entire time you are wasting away on hold, watching your fingernails grow, the company brags about its new and improved service menu.
This whole sector of the economy feels like the Soviet Union: Long waiting lines, no service, contempt for the consumer, products that don’t work when shipped, but somebody with the power to create a little trouble for the big boys arrives, and everybody starts jumping. Of course, the obvious differences are that innovation barely existed in Soviet industries, while the computer manufacturers are just about the most innovative people of all time. But the net result turns out to be more suffering for the rest of us.””
You love me dont you.
"The scorpian asked the frog to give him a lift over the river. 'Nay, yea shall sting me with thy tail', she replied. 'I shall not', promised he. So across the river they went, till the scorpian stung the poor frog. 'Now we both die, foolish scorpian', said the frog. 'Why did you do it?' 'I could not help it, it is my nature' was his only reply."
"A masochist walked up to a sadist, and said 'Hurt me'. The sadist said 'No' and walked away."
"The scorpian asked the frog to give him a lift over the river. 'Nay, yea shall sting me with thy tail', she replied. 'I shall not', promised he. So across the river they went, till the scorpian stung the poor frog. 'Now we both die, foolish scorpian', said the frog. 'Why did you do it?' 'I could not help it, it is my nature' was his only reply."
"A masochist walked up to a sadist, and said 'Hurt me'. The sadist said 'No' and walked away."
Does anyone have experience with Radeon on Win98se and DVD/mpg/video stuff? Does NVIDIA make a card with video in/out and hardware decoding? Is anyone having Hobbit’s problems in Win98se or is his problem more of a Win2000 thing? Wusy is right, out of 11 replies so far we have only 2 for Radeon, none against, and one don’t care cause I do not run Win2000.
Mr.? Hobbit
When I originally bought the plain old TNT card it was suppose to be the best thing going at the time. Unreal played like crap however because it was written with 3dfx cards in mind. After some time Unreal improved their drivers and the TNT card worked fine. Nothing about the TNT card changed, only Unreal’s drivers were improved. It wasn’t the card it was the software. While I feel your pain and agree that if a company says they support an OS then they by God should, I don’t really care if ATI’s Win2000 drivers suck cause I don’t run 2000. Also your posts are too damn long and redundant. You should take this matter to the department of redundancy department.
Mr.? Hobbit
When I originally bought the plain old TNT card it was suppose to be the best thing going at the time. Unreal played like crap however because it was written with 3dfx cards in mind. After some time Unreal improved their drivers and the TNT card worked fine. Nothing about the TNT card changed, only Unreal’s drivers were improved. It wasn’t the card it was the software. While I feel your pain and agree that if a company says they support an OS then they by God should, I don’t really care if ATI’s Win2000 drivers suck cause I don’t run 2000. Also your posts are too damn long and redundant. You should take this matter to the department of redundancy department.
YES! there is a nvidia card that has the video in/out etc..... actually its got much more, its the ULTRA version actually. THIS is the info i have on it: asus v7700 ultra geforce 2 gts 64mb with tv out, tv capture and tv tuner!!!!, does neone know more bout this card, does it have dvd??? if it does than hell ya its the best out there!!! if it doesnt than the aiw only advantage over this card would be the dvd n the tv guide feature!! howver this nvidia card is ULTRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA... n whips radeon's ass! what ppls opinons on this card compared to the aiw???
ASUS 7700 is GTS, not Ultra (i.e. maybe they call the card ultra, don't know about that, but it has the regular GTS Geforce2 in it)
check the name you typed yourself, ASUS Ultra 7700 Geforce 2 GTS -- well, its either Ultra OR GTS, and I think its GTS...
Besides, the ASUS has 32MB RAM, and all Ultra's have 64MB... so definitely lower-end GTS in ASUS...
Tom's hardware did a direct comparison between Radeon AIW and the ASUS 7700, go and check it out for benchmarks... it is undoubtedly better in most 3d games, but not enough to make a difference to me personally (i.e. 80FPS vs 100FPS, who cares any more? well, not me at least
http://www4.tomshardware.com/graphic/00q3/000821/index.html
* there's no AIW with 64MB yet
lakedude: hate to repeat myself in hobbit's fashion, but you asked for personal experiences so...
I got the AIW, use it with WinME & Win2000, no problemo (well, there was that one problem with no sound in TV, but it was my stupid mistake for not connecting the cables correctly
I watch TV, DVD, play games, do some graphics stuff (corel draw, 3dstudio) on amateur level etc, time-shifting (TV on demand), recording, snapshots, etc -- personally I wouldn't want to change it -- I'm very happy with my card. Some people have had problems installing it, and I can't help you there, all I can say is that I personally and people I know haven't had problems with either OS -- either we were born under a lucky star or the others were born under unlucky one...
Good Luck
check the name you typed yourself, ASUS Ultra 7700 Geforce 2 GTS -- well, its either Ultra OR GTS, and I think its GTS...
Besides, the ASUS has 32MB RAM, and all Ultra's have 64MB... so definitely lower-end GTS in ASUS...
Tom's hardware did a direct comparison between Radeon AIW and the ASUS 7700, go and check it out for benchmarks... it is undoubtedly better in most 3d games, but not enough to make a difference to me personally (i.e. 80FPS vs 100FPS, who cares any more? well, not me at least
http://www4.tomshardware.com/graphic/00q3/000821/index.html
* there's no AIW with 64MB yet
lakedude: hate to repeat myself in hobbit's fashion, but you asked for personal experiences so...
I got the AIW, use it with WinME & Win2000, no problemo (well, there was that one problem with no sound in TV, but it was my stupid mistake for not connecting the cables correctly
I watch TV, DVD, play games, do some graphics stuff (corel draw, 3dstudio) on amateur level etc, time-shifting (TV on demand), recording, snapshots, etc -- personally I wouldn't want to change it -- I'm very happy with my card. Some people have had problems installing it, and I can't help you there, all I can say is that I personally and people I know haven't had problems with either OS -- either we were born under a lucky star or the others were born under unlucky one...
Good Luck
Kodiak
Thank you this is exactly the type of information I was looking for. After rereading Tom’s review I am noticing that the ATI has better quality in the areas I care about. Now the question is which ATI card. Should I go AIW 32 or non-AIW 64 vivo? The only extra feature on the 32 AIW over the 64 vivo is the TV tuner correct? Is it better to have 64 over 32 or is the TV tuner so trick that it is a must have? Since after a certain point I don’t care about game performance and the since the 64 vivo and 32 AIW are priced about the same I am leaning towards the 32 AIW. Keeping in mind the stated goals should I go 64 vivo?
Also, who needs a hardware DVD decoder w software cheap?
Thank you this is exactly the type of information I was looking for. After rereading Tom’s review I am noticing that the ATI has better quality in the areas I care about. Now the question is which ATI card. Should I go AIW 32 or non-AIW 64 vivo? The only extra feature on the 32 AIW over the 64 vivo is the TV tuner correct? Is it better to have 64 over 32 or is the TV tuner so trick that it is a must have? Since after a certain point I don’t care about game performance and the since the 64 vivo and 32 AIW are priced about the same I am leaning towards the 32 AIW. Keeping in mind the stated goals should I go 64 vivo?
Also, who needs a hardware DVD decoder w software cheap?
broggiemonster
Distinguished
- Dec 31, 2007
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- 18,630
Don't get rid of your hardware decoder card until you are satisfied that the Radeon has good enough decoding for you. I have seen a review where the reviewer found that a hollywood DVD decoder card had a far superior picture to the radeon. I personally have a DDR Radeon so I don't have an axe to grind...just make sure the playback is right for you. The reviewer Did say a new Radeon was due out with better facilities though.
Ray
Ray
Thanks broggiemonster
I almost forgot completely to ask about sound. Is the AIW capable of recording sound with video like say a VCR does? Can you use the AIW like a vcr? I would like to be able to record a show from cable with sound in MPEG2 without saving to a bigger (uncompressed) format first, possible? Once a MPEG2 is made Flask should be able to make a MPEG4 correct?
I almost forgot completely to ask about sound. Is the AIW capable of recording sound with video like say a VCR does? Can you use the AIW like a vcr? I would like to be able to record a show from cable with sound in MPEG2 without saving to a bigger (uncompressed) format first, possible? Once a MPEG2 is made Flask should be able to make a MPEG4 correct?
Thanks for the help everybody!
Can’t stand it any longer. Decision has been made, ordered AIW today. 64 VIVO not that much faster and not sure about sound in/out with 64. After re-re-reading Tom’s review of AIW and considering MPEG priority over 3d games AIW wins. Sorry Hobbit if this is making you crazy. I will let everybody know what I think of AIW when it is running. I’ll buy Hobbit dinner or something if I hate it.
Can’t stand it any longer. Decision has been made, ordered AIW today. 64 VIVO not that much faster and not sure about sound in/out with 64. After re-re-reading Tom’s review of AIW and considering MPEG priority over 3d games AIW wins. Sorry Hobbit if this is making you crazy. I will let everybody know what I think of AIW when it is running. I’ll buy Hobbit dinner or something if I hate it.
TheAntipop
Distinguished
- Dec 31, 2007
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- 0
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pretty clever, probably didnt think of it yourself though, but ill give credit to you for posting it
btw, i ALMOST went a day without seeing that post, shouldnt have wondered into a radeon post, oh well
<font color=blue>Intel Inside</font color=blue> = <font color=red>IDIOT</font color=red> Outside
TheAntipop
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- Dec 31, 2007
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hobbit, im just wondering (actually just read your entire post for the first time), you NEVER got either of the two radeons to work? i bought a radeon, plugged it into a Win2k system VERY similar to yours and it worked without a hitch. Ive talked to and seen more people like me than people like you. Im trying not to flame you, but do you ever stop to think that maybe you were doing something wrong? maybe you didnt try win2k's default drivers for the radeon, theyre actually quite good (unless you feel you need 122 fps vs. 120 fps). Im just thinking that when you couldnt get either to work you tried tech support then gave up. Did you try coming to this forum at all? id say about 85% of people who do end up with their problem solved. Just a thought
<font color=blue>Intel Inside</font color=blue> = <font color=red>IDIOT</font color=red> Outside
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheAntipop on 01/14/01 01:18 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
<font color=blue>Intel Inside</font color=blue> = <font color=red>IDIOT</font color=red> Outside
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheAntipop on 01/14/01 01:18 AM.</EM></FONT></P>I got them to work to the extent I mentioned. ATI couldnt help with any problem I mentioned. Your talking about ATI AIW Radeon I hope, not the plain Radeon, otherwise were talking about two very different cards. I didnt have trouble installing either card. I had trouble with the software / drivers which dont work properly. Read my post entirely and for the first time and see for yourself.
ATI FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE
Epiphanic Lucidity
Read what I have to say and make your own decision.
I will never buy another ATI product. ATI consistently provides drivers that suck. The new ATI Radeons suck… the drivers don’t work for scat on win2k. Driver updates are non-existent as in the past. They have no toll free tech support, so when you get it and it doesn’t work right you’re in for a long wait before it does. Their new Radeon cards ship with win2k drivers, which don’t work properly. If you want to feel scat on buy Radeon.
NOTE: I bought two of the ATI AIW Radeon cards for two systems both identical accept in the amount of ram and a few different peripherals. Neither card worked on either system properly. Don’t believe me take a look around people, are starting to figure it out for themselves. Some people will say I should stop complaining and switch to a different operating system like win98SE. Those same people are enabling ATI to get away with this crap. No I never tested with win98SE or WinME because that was not my OS and I am not going to switch to a different OS for ATI, lol that is so funny especially when the ATI AIW Radeon ships with win2k full release drivers. Anyone who says you should switch OS’s to make the card work is just plain out to lunch.
"I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year's fashions." - Lillian Hellman
System Specs:
Win2kPro
Enlight 7230 Case
Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro
Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer
Everglide Giganta (Black)
Golden Orb H/S & Fan
Asus CUSL2
3DFX V5 5500 AGP
3DFX V3 2K PCI
ViewSonic P815 Professional Series 21 Monitor”
HP A4033A 20” Monitor
Blackout Buster 500VA
P3 700 I don’t o/c it but it will do 933 fine and post at 1GHZ.
Kodak DC280 Zoom
VideoBlaster Webcam 3
320MB SDRAM PC133 Cas2 Infineon
Epson Stylus 900
Epson Perfection 1200S
SBLive Platinum 5.1
2 Maxtor 45GB AT100 7200
Adaptec 2930 SCSI Controller
Maxtor AT100 Controller
Toshiba 8x DVD
Plextor Plexwriter External 8/20
Klipsch ProMedia v.2-400
Linksys 10/100 Ethernet Card
Linksys 10/100 Hub
Previously Owned two V3 3500TV’s which didn’t support Win2k initially but has supported it for well over half a year now and EVERYTHING worked even with the beta drivers, unlike ATI which released their newer card with Win2k drivers which don’t work with 70% of the card properly.
I wish I still had a copy of the long and detailed report I typed out to them concerning the problems with their card, but I formatted my HD and started from scratch anticipating this suggestion after initial trouble shooting efforts failed.
Note: Isn’t it irksome that the common panacea for computer problems these days is the all to often suggestion/demand that you reformat your HD and start from scratch to try to solve problems with a new piece of hardware. I find that this policy is absolutely unacceptable and is abused in the computer industry, which relies on it to make their hardware work rather than hiring more knowledgeable help, which could save the customer much time and wasted effort. Do you think they tell Bill Gates he has to reformat his PC? “”This “screw the consumer’s time, it’s not costing us anything” attitude appears to exist across the entire spectrum of new technology industries.”” (Worth magazine Jan 2001, by Eric Alterman. Excerpt from his article below)
In the phone calls to them (which the customer pays for) they could not help me but were interested in my errors as some had already been reported and some were new to them and some helped them figure out more in detail why certain errors would occur. They encouraged a detailed write up. I did them a favor at my own expense and time and then they replied with we will only fix problems reported to a significant degree… Only if customers complain enough will they bother fixing a problem. What a joke. In other words they know of problems but are not fixing them until their customers really start complaining in droves.
Under win2k these are the problems I encountered. All games I tried using OpenGL which is “fully”supported by ATI “Full OpenGL® and Microsoft® DirectX® support.” of which I probably own 40 have graphics that look like [-peep-] and are too dark which cannot be fixed without second hand programs or special tweaking instructions/editing of CFG files etc... (3DFX had a Gamma slider allowing you to brighten or darken Direct 3d or OpenGL games independently besides the desktop quickly solving this problem. Direct3d, which works on some games, looks like crap on some (examples: Diablo 2, Quake one) and good on others… Compare Diablo 2 using OpenGL with a voodoo card versus Radeon Direct3d ((pixilated and snowy), (Radeon fails if you try OpenGL). TV looks good but the downloading of the TV schedule fails half the time. TV out onscreen ATI software controls for turning the TV on and off do not work at all. When you plug in your Svideo your automatically outputting your pc signal to your TV and cannot switch it on and off like you’re supposed to be able to on your pc, instead you have to reboot!, but there is more… Furthermore once you view your pc on you TV your graphics no longer fit your pc monitor screen and you end up using your mouse to scroll to areas on the peripheral of your pc monitor you cant see any longer unless you scroll there. This problem is terrible since you cannot use the controls that come with the card to switch back to using the monitor as the screen properly. What happens is that you get stuck with this scrolling problem and it doesn’t go away even when you reboot. The only way I found to fix it is to completely uninstall the drivers and then reinstall them and then set the monitor resolution low to like 640x480 and then reset it back up to whatever you want. You see upon rebooting and reinstalling the drivers the problem is still there but now if you change the resolution down to 640x480 and then back up to whatever you want it set things back to normal. This is very time consuming process. ATI never even replied to this particular problem. DVD playback, which is hardware driven stutters! This I couldn’t believe and was the last straw because I thought that at least worked when I first watched the beginning of the Matrix for about 30 seconds to see if it was working. Later I go to show a friend and it is stuttering as we watch it for a few minutes. Mpeg4 playback fails! ATI was aware of the Mpeg4 playback failures but has not fixed this problem yet! This card is a nightmare folks! I have forgotten much of what I wrote them detailing errors received and better descriptions of the problems but this should be enough to explain what a piece of crap ATI is foisting. Foisting (Webster): “To give somebody something inferior: to give somebody something inferior on the pretence that it is genuine, valuable, or desirable.” A good synonym for foisting would be FRAUD.
After spending about four hours total on the phone with them and getting them all the information they wanted I get no reassurances. All I get is hopefully we will have an answer to some of these problems in the future. Blah Blah Blah. Month goes by and no driver updates that fix the milieu of problems. Many people have posted on Tomshardware in the past as to the untrustworthy nature of ATI concerning drivers and their inability to act quickly to fix driver problems. I now know what they were talking about first hand. Don’t make the same mistake. How can you purchase a card that ships with Win2k drivers today and have it not work in everything properly accept TV in? When it takes half a year to fix all the problems on such a product why bother buying it since by that time the card will be selling for less than half what you paid for it and will be half as fast as newer cards on the market. ATI may fall just like 3DFX but for poor drivers and poor support, not speed, if they continue with this irresponsible behavior.
An email I retained sent to ATI in response to a customer support reply that was more useless than the long distance phone support.
Thank you very much for you're very kind reply... I find the information I have provided your company with at my expense much more valuable to you than the information you have provided me. Reiteration of solutions I have already tried does neither of us any good. I have returned both cards to the original retailer. In the future please refrain from releasing unfinished products. I and other customers regard such actions as unlawful. I can no longer recommend your products due to poor driver performance under win2k (I have not tested any other OS nor do I wish to do so as your product ships with supposed perfect win2k drivers), which I have tested extensively. The long list of problems with your drivers is tiresome. DVD play, which I previously thought, worked perfectly stutters randomly. In the future please don't rely on your customer base to solve your problems for you because in the end you lose valuable promotional commentary along with a good customer. No need to reply I just thought you should know how thoroughly disgusted I am with your product and your company.
Interesting Article in Worth magazine Jan 2001, by Eric Alterman, which reflects how many of us feel…
“”This “screw the consumer’s time, it’s not costing us anything” attitude appears to exist across the entire spectrum of new technology industries. I bought a scanner from UMAX that has never worked. There’s nobody at the other end to help, at least nobody I had the patience to find. The ugly thing has been sitting on my desk, unused, for two years. and have you tried to hook up a DSL line recently” I have, and I had to give up on that, too. It turned out Verizon, the new beast created out of Bell Atlantic’s merger with just about everybody else, had not yet come up with a modem compatible with Windows Me, though apparently it neglected to mention that to the person on the phone who was all to willing to take an order and let the caller waste hours trying to make the damn thing work. Chris Taylor of Time recently wrote of spending almost six months stuck inside a similar nightmare courtesy of Pacific Bell, which given its location, really ought to know better. The truth was that the company did not even offer the service, called D-Slam, that it had promised him, as it had run out of the hardware, but it continued to advertise it because, a rep admitted, their “competitors haven’t stopped advertising yet: The worst of it is that the entire time you are wasting away on hold, watching your fingernails grow, the company brags about its new and improved service menu.
This whole sector of the economy feels like the Soviet Union: Long waiting lines, no service, contempt for the consumer, products that don’t work when shipped, but somebody with the power to create a little trouble for the big boys arrives, and everybody starts jumping. Of course, the obvious differences are that innovation barely existed in Soviet industries, while the computer manufacturers are just about the most innovative people of all time. But the net result turns out to be more suffering for the rest of us.””
"A masochist walked up to a sadist, and said 'Hurt me'. The sadist said 'No' and walked away."
ATI FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE
Epiphanic Lucidity
Read what I have to say and make your own decision.
I will never buy another ATI product. ATI consistently provides drivers that suck. The new ATI Radeons suck… the drivers don’t work for scat on win2k. Driver updates are non-existent as in the past. They have no toll free tech support, so when you get it and it doesn’t work right you’re in for a long wait before it does. Their new Radeon cards ship with win2k drivers, which don’t work properly. If you want to feel scat on buy Radeon.
NOTE: I bought two of the ATI AIW Radeon cards for two systems both identical accept in the amount of ram and a few different peripherals. Neither card worked on either system properly. Don’t believe me take a look around people, are starting to figure it out for themselves. Some people will say I should stop complaining and switch to a different operating system like win98SE. Those same people are enabling ATI to get away with this crap. No I never tested with win98SE or WinME because that was not my OS and I am not going to switch to a different OS for ATI, lol that is so funny especially when the ATI AIW Radeon ships with win2k full release drivers. Anyone who says you should switch OS’s to make the card work is just plain out to lunch.
"I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year's fashions." - Lillian Hellman
System Specs:
Win2kPro
Enlight 7230 Case
Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro
Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer
Everglide Giganta (Black)
Golden Orb H/S & Fan
Asus CUSL2
3DFX V5 5500 AGP
3DFX V3 2K PCI
ViewSonic P815 Professional Series 21 Monitor”
HP A4033A 20” Monitor
Blackout Buster 500VA
P3 700 I don’t o/c it but it will do 933 fine and post at 1GHZ.
Kodak DC280 Zoom
VideoBlaster Webcam 3
320MB SDRAM PC133 Cas2 Infineon
Epson Stylus 900
Epson Perfection 1200S
SBLive Platinum 5.1
2 Maxtor 45GB AT100 7200
Adaptec 2930 SCSI Controller
Maxtor AT100 Controller
Toshiba 8x DVD
Plextor Plexwriter External 8/20
Klipsch ProMedia v.2-400
Linksys 10/100 Ethernet Card
Linksys 10/100 Hub
Previously Owned two V3 3500TV’s which didn’t support Win2k initially but has supported it for well over half a year now and EVERYTHING worked even with the beta drivers, unlike ATI which released their newer card with Win2k drivers which don’t work with 70% of the card properly.
I wish I still had a copy of the long and detailed report I typed out to them concerning the problems with their card, but I formatted my HD and started from scratch anticipating this suggestion after initial trouble shooting efforts failed.
Note: Isn’t it irksome that the common panacea for computer problems these days is the all to often suggestion/demand that you reformat your HD and start from scratch to try to solve problems with a new piece of hardware. I find that this policy is absolutely unacceptable and is abused in the computer industry, which relies on it to make their hardware work rather than hiring more knowledgeable help, which could save the customer much time and wasted effort. Do you think they tell Bill Gates he has to reformat his PC? “”This “screw the consumer’s time, it’s not costing us anything” attitude appears to exist across the entire spectrum of new technology industries.”” (Worth magazine Jan 2001, by Eric Alterman. Excerpt from his article below)
In the phone calls to them (which the customer pays for) they could not help me but were interested in my errors as some had already been reported and some were new to them and some helped them figure out more in detail why certain errors would occur. They encouraged a detailed write up. I did them a favor at my own expense and time and then they replied with we will only fix problems reported to a significant degree… Only if customers complain enough will they bother fixing a problem. What a joke. In other words they know of problems but are not fixing them until their customers really start complaining in droves.
Under win2k these are the problems I encountered. All games I tried using OpenGL which is “fully”supported by ATI “Full OpenGL® and Microsoft® DirectX® support.” of which I probably own 40 have graphics that look like [-peep-] and are too dark which cannot be fixed without second hand programs or special tweaking instructions/editing of CFG files etc... (3DFX had a Gamma slider allowing you to brighten or darken Direct 3d or OpenGL games independently besides the desktop quickly solving this problem. Direct3d, which works on some games, looks like crap on some (examples: Diablo 2, Quake one) and good on others… Compare Diablo 2 using OpenGL with a voodoo card versus Radeon Direct3d ((pixilated and snowy), (Radeon fails if you try OpenGL). TV looks good but the downloading of the TV schedule fails half the time. TV out onscreen ATI software controls for turning the TV on and off do not work at all. When you plug in your Svideo your automatically outputting your pc signal to your TV and cannot switch it on and off like you’re supposed to be able to on your pc, instead you have to reboot!, but there is more… Furthermore once you view your pc on you TV your graphics no longer fit your pc monitor screen and you end up using your mouse to scroll to areas on the peripheral of your pc monitor you cant see any longer unless you scroll there. This problem is terrible since you cannot use the controls that come with the card to switch back to using the monitor as the screen properly. What happens is that you get stuck with this scrolling problem and it doesn’t go away even when you reboot. The only way I found to fix it is to completely uninstall the drivers and then reinstall them and then set the monitor resolution low to like 640x480 and then reset it back up to whatever you want. You see upon rebooting and reinstalling the drivers the problem is still there but now if you change the resolution down to 640x480 and then back up to whatever you want it set things back to normal. This is very time consuming process. ATI never even replied to this particular problem. DVD playback, which is hardware driven stutters! This I couldn’t believe and was the last straw because I thought that at least worked when I first watched the beginning of the Matrix for about 30 seconds to see if it was working. Later I go to show a friend and it is stuttering as we watch it for a few minutes. Mpeg4 playback fails! ATI was aware of the Mpeg4 playback failures but has not fixed this problem yet! This card is a nightmare folks! I have forgotten much of what I wrote them detailing errors received and better descriptions of the problems but this should be enough to explain what a piece of crap ATI is foisting. Foisting (Webster): “To give somebody something inferior: to give somebody something inferior on the pretence that it is genuine, valuable, or desirable.” A good synonym for foisting would be FRAUD.
After spending about four hours total on the phone with them and getting them all the information they wanted I get no reassurances. All I get is hopefully we will have an answer to some of these problems in the future. Blah Blah Blah. Month goes by and no driver updates that fix the milieu of problems. Many people have posted on Tomshardware in the past as to the untrustworthy nature of ATI concerning drivers and their inability to act quickly to fix driver problems. I now know what they were talking about first hand. Don’t make the same mistake. How can you purchase a card that ships with Win2k drivers today and have it not work in everything properly accept TV in? When it takes half a year to fix all the problems on such a product why bother buying it since by that time the card will be selling for less than half what you paid for it and will be half as fast as newer cards on the market. ATI may fall just like 3DFX but for poor drivers and poor support, not speed, if they continue with this irresponsible behavior.
An email I retained sent to ATI in response to a customer support reply that was more useless than the long distance phone support.
Thank you very much for you're very kind reply... I find the information I have provided your company with at my expense much more valuable to you than the information you have provided me. Reiteration of solutions I have already tried does neither of us any good. I have returned both cards to the original retailer. In the future please refrain from releasing unfinished products. I and other customers regard such actions as unlawful. I can no longer recommend your products due to poor driver performance under win2k (I have not tested any other OS nor do I wish to do so as your product ships with supposed perfect win2k drivers), which I have tested extensively. The long list of problems with your drivers is tiresome. DVD play, which I previously thought, worked perfectly stutters randomly. In the future please don't rely on your customer base to solve your problems for you because in the end you lose valuable promotional commentary along with a good customer. No need to reply I just thought you should know how thoroughly disgusted I am with your product and your company.
Interesting Article in Worth magazine Jan 2001, by Eric Alterman, which reflects how many of us feel…
“”This “screw the consumer’s time, it’s not costing us anything” attitude appears to exist across the entire spectrum of new technology industries. I bought a scanner from UMAX that has never worked. There’s nobody at the other end to help, at least nobody I had the patience to find. The ugly thing has been sitting on my desk, unused, for two years. and have you tried to hook up a DSL line recently” I have, and I had to give up on that, too. It turned out Verizon, the new beast created out of Bell Atlantic’s merger with just about everybody else, had not yet come up with a modem compatible with Windows Me, though apparently it neglected to mention that to the person on the phone who was all to willing to take an order and let the caller waste hours trying to make the damn thing work. Chris Taylor of Time recently wrote of spending almost six months stuck inside a similar nightmare courtesy of Pacific Bell, which given its location, really ought to know better. The truth was that the company did not even offer the service, called D-Slam, that it had promised him, as it had run out of the hardware, but it continued to advertise it because, a rep admitted, their “competitors haven’t stopped advertising yet: The worst of it is that the entire time you are wasting away on hold, watching your fingernails grow, the company brags about its new and improved service menu.
This whole sector of the economy feels like the Soviet Union: Long waiting lines, no service, contempt for the consumer, products that don’t work when shipped, but somebody with the power to create a little trouble for the big boys arrives, and everybody starts jumping. Of course, the obvious differences are that innovation barely existed in Soviet industries, while the computer manufacturers are just about the most innovative people of all time. But the net result turns out to be more suffering for the rest of us.””
"A masochist walked up to a sadist, and said 'Hurt me'. The sadist said 'No' and walked away."
Ummm,
Hobbitt posted the same post twice in the same thread! Get some originality and please, get some help.
Hobbitt posted the same post twice in the same thread! Get some originality and please, get some help.
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