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Say what you want -- ATi -- Rules

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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January 22, 2001 11:20:49 PM

Well i have reasons too:


-ATi Radeon is a good 3D proformer + released early
-ATi Radeon Lowered GeForce cards prices
-HyperZ and HSR god's gift to man-kind
-R200 looks faster so far then the NV20
-There already R400, 4x to 6x faster then NV20
-S3 is back in action, better then ever, Nvidia IS scared
-ATi radeon made the Geforce2 MX come out faster
----------------------------------------------------------
-ATi is to make the First SDRAM chipset, for the P4 over VIA and ALi
-There P4 chipset will most likely 200mhz DDR-sdram
-ATi chipset will Lower the P4 Price cause there will be onboard video on the chipset.
-Most likely first to make First Northwood p4 chipset after Intel

ATi look like the winner this year. S3 looks Strong too!!! NV20 Will be a loss for Nvidia, S3 will pull a good chipset soon and ATi is about to make a sucess in the chipset business first P4 sdram chipset. nvidia has jack nonthing i chipsets.

Nvidia chipsets so far as it looks:
> DDR-sdram chipset for Athlon
> Will face off with ALi , Via , Sis -the "Twain 3"
> oh they Also have to compete with Micron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ATi chipset as its looks:
> ahead of the field cause with deal with Intel
> They Have the First sdram chipset for the p4 - Huge News
> No Micron P4 chipsets that i see coming

-----------------

come and Say --- ATi thank you for the start of the END OF RAMBUS.

Cel 533 - 256mb sdram
15gb HD - ati radeon 32mb ddr (200/200)
SB live! mp3+ - win98 Beos

More about : ati rules

Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
January 23, 2001 1:37:07 AM

ATI will only rule when they start releasing products that work correctly right out of the box, not after driver patch, driver release, etc... They have done fairly well in the past and I hope they can regain this, but the issues with compatibility and driver maturity weighs in very high on my list as a bad business decision if a company releases a product with those issues. The Radeon is an example of a prematurely released video card. They should have tested more in the private and public sector, as well as hired more, or better, programmers for driver development!!!!!!!
January 23, 2001 4:05:39 AM

It's strange that my 3d mark 2000 scores surpass just about every Radeon SDR and DDR on madonion's website. I'm using a crappy GF2 MX too- with 7ns RAM! But, ATi did ok this year... the Radeon is definitely an improvement over the Rage 128 series =) nVidia rules.

-MP Jesse
Related resources
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
January 23, 2001 4:46:07 AM

Hey do you have links to the information about the R200 and R400? I am curious about them but haven't found any info on them to speak of. Thanks.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
January 23, 2001 6:26:16 AM

Ati must be rubbing thier hands together at the demise of Voodoo, what will happen to the Voodoo name, will Nvidia keep making them, will you still be able to get support for them?, who knows
January 25, 2001 9:23:27 PM

ATI's first chipset for the P4? Me be thinking that Intel has the design for it and just having ATI fab it because of the RAMBUS crap. Otherwise who knows how many INF updates its going to take to get the chipset to work right IF ATI designs it. Even if ATI does design it Intel will for sure will be there for every step of its development. So in review what will ATI's chipset be? An Intel loophole to get DDR on the P4 by the means on an ATI name. And lets all hope that its not an "early release" too!
January 25, 2001 9:40:19 PM

It you can call the ATi chipset " brookdale "

Cel 533 - 256mb sdram
15gb HD - ati radeon 32mb ddr (200/200)
SB live! mp3+ - win98 Beos
January 28, 2001 7:26:22 AM

Radeon for me is a well working card with little problems if any. Every game that I throw at it runs great. No One Lives Forever, Fakk II, Test Drive 6, Flight Sim 2000, Combat Flight Sim One and Two, Driver plus many others seems to run great especially in 32 bit color. 32 bit performance is on Par with GTS II. 2d text is very sharpe and clear on my Trinitron 20" monitor. No blurriness here, my friends GTSII card 2d degrades greatly at resolutions above 1024x768. Not the Radeon. DVD playback is the best I've seen. I use the included Video in with my cable box and the quality is outstanding. In fact I gave away my 21" Zenieth tv set since the quality of my computer was so much better and I wasn't using my tv set anymore. I did have a number of problems back in October when I first purchase the card but not anymore. The price of the Radeons are outstanding for example Radeon 64 VIVO Retail version can be had at Egghead.com for $191.99! Features/performace to price ratio is about the best you can get. So ATI is kicking some major butt now.
January 28, 2001 3:40:50 PM

Theoretically they should be the winners, right? Right.

But they're not. WAY more GeForce cards were sold than Radeon cards. And once ATi makes a card that works with it's drivers, they might win. But this year, they haven't won. Not yet.
January 29, 2001 4:46:01 PM

Have you ever thought of economics? The reason that Radeons are nose diving in price most likely do to the low demand for them. You have to think that the card started out around 350-400 dollars. Either ATI jacked the price way up at the start to recover development costs, is selling them at a lose to try and earn market share, ATI figured out how to make them cheaper, or they just arent being demanded which in effect drives down price. Basic economics says lower the price to get more buyers, however there are still three other possible reasons for the sudden price drop. Some of which show that ATI is losing, not winning. But hey Im just pulling this out my arse two so I could be wrong.
January 29, 2001 5:54:11 PM

When the ATi P4 chipset comes out OEM's will eat them up. More power to ATi...

First person to get a topic banned. ABIT BP6 Lives FOREVER!!!
January 29, 2001 7:44:51 PM

Far be it for me to piss on your ATI parade, but intel opened up P4 licenses to other companies aswell. So ATI is no longer the only compainy that can make P4 chipsets, only the first to anounce it.
January 30, 2001 12:08:59 AM

Well intel will most likely will force Mobo makers to make mobo's based of the chip. Intel makes more money if ATi chipsets sell over Via or Nvidia chipsets sold. Hell most likely there chipset will be like or maybe "strip down version of "brookdale"" you see its Intel's plan that you dont see, cause your so pro - nvidia

First person to get a topic banned. ABIT BP6 Lives FOREVER!!!
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2001 8:14:26 AM

I bought a Radeon 64mb DDR card, and i am afraid i sold it to someone at work. I am sure it is a great card, but i like my PC to be stable, and offer consistant good performance. ATI cannot offer this at the moment.....shame really. :o (

PS. Brought a Hercules Prophet II Ultra 64 instead. Now i am feeling alot better....... :o )
January 30, 2001 10:59:39 AM

If i ever find a ATI card in my computer, i'll shoot myself. ATI sucks. They product horrible graphics and they never work right. For these reasons i'll stick to nvidia.

--SR
January 30, 2001 2:24:04 PM

well you all will mosy likely love ATi chipsets. They most likely be a Intel clone but with ATi on the the chip over intel.

First person to get a topic banned. ABIT BP6 Lives FOREVER!!!
January 30, 2001 3:03:02 PM

rcf84 seems to have become the anti-hobbit...
not necessarily a good thing...
January 30, 2001 3:31:28 PM

Well it seems like you all goto nvidia sites all day. i want more then just nvidia as the only 3d chip company.

First person to get a topic banned. ABIT BP6 Lives FOREVER!!!
January 30, 2001 3:40:42 PM

Actually that's not true from your posts. You seem to ONLY want ATI.

lol, "the anti-hobbit," i like it
January 30, 2001 4:52:42 PM

>> Well it seems like you all goto nvidia sites all day.

not sure if this refers to me - I sure hope not:) 
I got the ATI AIW, so I haven't seen a *single* nVidia site -- what's the point:) 
I do hear about GF2 though, from forums, news, friends and coleagues...

my point is, you're going on some crusade FOR ATI in a frighteningly similar way that Hobbit was going on a crusade AGAINST ATI... hence anti-hobbit

while I do like my card and for a while I was countering hobbit's "points", and I would obviously like ATI not only to survive but to improve its products (consumers can only be the winners that way), I neverthless have no wish, energy, time or inclination to go on crusades that so many people do these days (also the Intel/AMD fanatics)... I am honestly fascinated and seriously wonder where do you people get the above-mentioned resources? I just don't have it in me I guess to blindly follow a particular product/company:) 

anyhoo, g'luck on your crusade -- though I fear its gonna be an uphill battle :smile:
January 30, 2001 7:51:15 PM

I have barely done research on nVidia. I don't care about the company. Only the product.
January 30, 2001 8:37:24 PM

I have an ATI Rage Fury Vivo 32MB. Good card, but the ATI WDM AV Crossbar Controller doesn't work. I downloaded a heavy duty driver to fix it and it worked....until the first cold boot. Repeated and got the same result. Still works though and although my previous card was a STB Velocity 4MB and I can't really compare, I love this card.
I want a Radeon 32 or 64 next.
January 31, 2001 1:38:59 PM

Don´t waste your money!

Wait for the NV20!

"I´m Going Down!...Down!Down!Down!Down!Down!" - Joe Satriani in G3 Live
January 31, 2001 3:10:21 PM

Well LordKaos go back to Nvidia lovers site.

First person to get a topic banned. ABIT BP6 Lives FOREVER!!!
January 31, 2001 8:01:10 PM

RCF we are not hooked on nVidia like you are with ATi. We only go for the best product, which is nVidia right now. If ATi start to make better stuff I will buy them.
January 31, 2001 11:28:48 PM

Oh, i'm not hooked on ati. I also like S3.

www.savage2k.com

First person to get a topic banned. ABIT BP6 Lives FOREVER!!!
February 1, 2001 10:29:01 AM

It´s not being a Nvidia lover is waiting for the best
graphic board!
Wipe your tears! (Because i bet you were a 3Dfx fan!)
Soon all technology that 3Dfx had will be incorporated on
Nvidia cards!
Tell me, what can ATI do about it?
Because even with the Radeon they are not better than Nvidia with the GeForce 2!

Am i seeing some bias from your side?
I think so!

"I´m Going Down!...Down!Down!Down!Down!Down!" - Joe Satriani in G3 Live
February 5, 2001 10:46:22 AM

Well, I suppose I count as an ATi fan, given that I have a Rage Fury in my nachine and an All-in-Wonder Pro in my old one. I havent had a problem with an ATi card yet, they have both done everything I have asked of them.

I tried replacing the Rage fury with a TNT2u, which will supposedly wipe the floor with the Rage 128. I gained (wait for it) 3 fps in q3. Worth the 180 quid I paid for it then......

This and the company's new found arrogance has led me not to be so much pro-ATi, but anti nVIDIA. I can also guarantee that NV20 will NOT live up to the hype. Couple this with the problem nVIDIA are having manufacturing it (low yields and high failure rates of reference boards), this may not be such a good year for nVIDIA as everyone thought.

What can ATi do about nVIDIA having the 3dfx technology? Well, quite a lot really. As they have things equivalent to 3dfx's tech in their back catalogue. Multi-chip cards? Look at the Rage Fury MAXX (it was basically a prototype released to the general public, ATi dipping their toes in the gaming waters). T-Buffer? All of the T-buffer effects are in the Radeon. FSAA? In the Radeon. VoodooTV? ATi's TV-Wonder has been out for years.

I still say it's a bit early to start saying "ATi rules uber alles", as even tho they are the best cards for me at the moment (Show me a GF2 Ultra and I shall show you somewhere you can put it), they dont have the mass market appeal just yet. This should hopefully change with R200 and R300 (Radeon 2 and 3).

"Because even with the Radeon they are not better than Nvidia with the GeForce 2!"

This is subjective. There is more to life than all out speed. Image quality, features, future-proofness (not a word but you get the idea), toys to play with, price. Radeon beats Geffer 2 (even the Ultra) in all these areas.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
February 5, 2001 5:48:32 PM

First, "-ATI- Rules?" Ummmmm... OK. Sounds like the type of illiterate giberish one finds scrawled on the walls of a public restroom; not very convicing arguementative writing. Perhaps something similar to "ATI: the David of Nvidia's Goliath" would have imparted your opinion more eloquently.

I'll admit I'm undecided on the issue. I have read complaints about ATI's drivers as well as praise for the ease with which ATI users have installed their cards. I have reviewed benchmark testing and had been leaning toward the GTS. After further deliberation, I've decided that Radeon may be my choice. Radeon seems to be able to edge out GTS at high quality, high resolution settings which is exactly what I would like in my new machine.

I'm currently running a PC optimized for CAD type applications and love my G400. However, as everyone knows, Matrox is not pushing 3D gaming features with their products. So, even though I couldn't ask for more from a design/drafting/modeling stand point, I have definite performance issues when it comes to game play.

So began my search for the perfect graphics solution. And to tell you the truth, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to choose the Radeon. They must be doing something right if they can out perform the GTS with much slower clocks.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not. But bottom line...
You'll never see me post anything with the phrase'
"_______ Rules!" I prefer literacy over riotous mob chants.
February 5, 2001 8:06:34 PM

Here is what I say...

ATI FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE

Epiphanic Lucidity

Read what I have to say and make your own decision.

I will never buy another ATI product. ATI consistently provides drivers that suck. The new ATI Radeons suck… the drivers don’t work for scat on win2k. Driver updates are non-existent as in the past. They have no toll free tech support, so when you get it and it doesn’t work right you’re in for a long wait before it does. Their new Radeon cards ship with win2k drivers, which don’t work properly. If you want to feel scat on buy Radeon.

NOTE: I bought two of the ATI AIW Radeon cards for two systems both identical accept in the amount of ram and a few different peripherals. Neither card worked on either system properly. Don’t believe me take a look around people, are starting to figure it out for themselves. Some people will say I should stop complaining and switch to a different operating system like win98SE. Those same people are enabling ATI to get away with this crap. No I never tested with win98SE or WinME because that was not my OS and I am not going to switch to a different OS for ATI, lol that is so funny especially when the ATI AIW Radeon ships with win2k full release drivers. Anyone who says you should switch OS’s to make the card work is just plain out to lunch.

"I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year's fashions." - Lillian Hellman

System Specs:

Win2kPro
Enlight 7237 Case
Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro
Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer
Everglide Giganta (Black)
Golden Orb H/S & Fan
Asus CUSL2
3DFX V5 5500 AGP
3DFX V3 2K PCI
ViewSonic P815 Professional Series 21 Monitor”
HP A4033A 20” Monitor
Blackout Buster 500VA
P3 700 I don’t o/c it but it will do 933 fine and post at 1GHZ.
Kodak DC280 Zoom
VideoBlaster Webcam 3
320MB SDRAM PC133 Cas2 Infineon
Epson Stylus 900
Epson Perfection 1200S
SBLive Platinum 5.1
2 Maxtor 45GB AT100 7200
Adaptec 2930 SCSI Controller
Maxtor AT100 Controller
Toshiba 8x DVD
Plextor Plexwriter External 8/20
Klipsch ProMedia v.2-400
Linksys 10/100 Ethernet Card
Linksys 10/100 Hub

Previously Owned two V3 3500TV’s which didn’t support Win2k initially but has supported it for well over half a year now and EVERYTHING worked even with the beta drivers, unlike ATI which released their newer card with Win2k drivers which don’t work with 70% of the card properly.

I wish I still had a copy of the long and detailed report I typed out to them concerning the problems with their card, but I formatted my HD and started from scratch anticipating this suggestion after initial trouble shooting efforts failed.
Note: Isn’t it irksome that the common panacea for computer problems these days is the all to often suggestion/demand that you reformat your HD and start from scratch to try to solve problems with a new piece of hardware. I find that this policy is absolutely unacceptable and is abused in the computer industry, which relies on it to make their hardware work rather than hiring more knowledgeable help, which could save the customer much time and wasted effort. Do you think they tell Bill Gates he has to reformat his PC? “”This “screw the consumer’s time, it’s not costing us anything” attitude appears to exist across the entire spectrum of new technology industries.”” (Worth magazine Jan 2001, by Eric Alterman. Excerpt from his article below)
In the phone calls to them (which the customer pays for) they could not help me but were interested in my errors as some had already been reported and some were new to them and some helped them figure out more in detail why certain errors would occur. They encouraged a detailed write up. I did them a favor at my own expense and time and then they replied with we will only fix problems reported to a significant degree… Only if customers complain enough will they bother fixing a problem. What a joke. In other words they know of problems but are not fixing them until their customers really start complaining in droves.
Under win2k these are the problems I encountered. All games I tried using OpenGL which is “fully”supported by ATI “Full OpenGL® and Microsoft® DirectX® support.” of which I probably own 40 have graphics that look like [-peep-] and are too dark which cannot be fixed without second hand programs or special tweaking instructions/editing of CFG files etc... (3DFX had a Gamma slider allowing you to brighten or darken Direct 3d or OpenGL games independently besides the desktop quickly solving this problem. Direct3d, which works on some games, looks like crap on some (examples: Diablo 2, Quake one) and good on others… Compare Diablo 2 using OpenGL with a voodoo card versus Radeon Direct3d ((pixilated and snowy), (Radeon fails if you try OpenGL). TV looks good but the downloading of the TV schedule fails half the time. TV out onscreen ATI software controls for turning the TV on and off do not work at all. When you plug in your Svideo your automatically outputting your pc signal to your TV and cannot switch it on and off like you’re supposed to be able to on your pc, instead you have to reboot!, but there is more… Furthermore once you view your pc on you TV your graphics no longer fit your pc monitor screen and you end up using your mouse to scroll to areas on the peripheral of your pc monitor you cant see any longer unless you scroll there. This problem is terrible since you cannot use the controls that come with the card to switch back to using the monitor as the screen properly. What happens is that you get stuck with this scrolling problem and it doesn’t go away even when you reboot. The only way I found to fix it is to completely uninstall the drivers and then reinstall them and then set the monitor resolution low to like 640x480 and then reset it back up to whatever you want. You see upon rebooting and reinstalling the drivers the problem is still there but now if you change the resolution down to 640x480 and then back up to whatever you want it set things back to normal. This is very time consuming process. ATI never even replied to this particular problem. DVD playback, which is hardware driven stutters! This I couldn’t believe and was the last straw because I thought that at least worked when I first watched the beginning of the Matrix for about 30 seconds to see if it was working. Later I go to show a friend and it is stuttering as we watch it for a few minutes. Mpeg4 playback fails! ATI was aware of the Mpeg4 playback failures but has not fixed this problem yet! This card is a nightmare folks! I have forgotten much of what I wrote them detailing errors received and better descriptions of the problems but this should be enough to explain what a piece of crap ATI is foisting. Foisting (Webster): “To give somebody something inferior: to give somebody something inferior on the pretence that it is genuine, valuable, or desirable.” A good synonym for foisting would be FRAUD.
After spending about four hours total on the phone with them and getting them all the information they wanted I get no reassurances. All I get is hopefully we will have an answer to some of these problems in the future. Blah Blah Blah. Month goes by and no driver updates that fix the milieu of problems. Many people have posted on Tomshardware in the past as to the untrustworthy nature of ATI concerning drivers and their inability to act quickly to fix driver problems. I now know what they were talking about first hand. Don’t make the same mistake. How can you purchase a card that ships with Win2k drivers today and have it not work in everything properly accept TV in? When it takes half a year to fix all the problems on such a product why bother buying it since by that time the card will be selling for less than half what you paid for it and will be half as fast as newer cards on the market. ATI may fall just like 3DFX but for poor drivers and poor support, not speed, if they continue with this irresponsible behavior.
On Mature Drivers: Gee the drivers are not "mature," that must be the problem, lol. You know what a "mature" driver is; a euphemism originally meaning buggy or "dfw - don't coitus work" fed to the public to convince us we are stupid and should not expect the drivers that come with our hardware to work properly and we should just shut up and wait a few months and longer and maybe they will work with some newer beta drivers and by that time the cards outdated and a very poor investment for what you got out of it.

An email I retained sent to ATI in response to a customer support reply that was more useless than the long distance phone support.

Thank you very much for you're very kind reply... I find the information I have provided your company with at my expense much more valuable to you than the information you have provided me. Reiteration of solutions I have already tried does neither of us any good. I have returned both cards to the original retailer. In the future please refrain from releasing unfinished products. I and other customers regard such actions as unlawful. I can no longer recommend your products due to poor driver performance under win2k (I have not tested any other OS nor do I wish to do so as your product ships with supposed perfect win2k drivers), which I have tested extensively. The long list of problems with your drivers is tiresome. DVD play, which I previously thought, worked perfectly stutters randomly. In the future please don't rely on your customer base to solve your problems for you because in the end you lose valuable promotional commentary along with a good customer. No need to reply I just thought you should know how thoroughly disgusted I am with your product and your company.

Interesting Article in Worth magazine Jan 2001, by Eric Alterman, which reflects how many of us feel…

“”This “screw the consumer’s time, it’s not costing us anything” attitude appears to exist across the entire spectrum of new technology industries. I bought a scanner from UMAX that has never worked. There’s nobody at the other end to help, at least nobody I had the patience to find. The ugly thing has been sitting on my desk, unused, for two years. and have you tried to hook up a DSL line recently” I have, and I had to give up on that, too. It turned out Verizon, the new beast created out of Bell Atlantic’s merger with just about everybody else, had not yet come up with a modem compatible with Windows Me, though apparently it neglected to mention that to the person on the phone who was all to willing to take an order and let the caller waste hours trying to make the damn thing work. Chris Taylor of Time recently wrote of spending almost six months stuck inside a similar nightmare courtesy of Pacific Bell, which given its location, really ought to know better. The truth was that the company did not even offer the service, called D-Slam, that it had promised him, as it had run out of the hardware, but it continued to advertise it because, a rep admitted, their “competitors haven’t stopped advertising yet: The worst of it is that the entire time you are wasting away on hold, watching your fingernails grow, the company brags about its new and improved service menu.
This whole sector of the economy feels like the Soviet Union: Long waiting lines, no service, contempt for the consumer, products that don’t work when shipped, but somebody with the power to create a little trouble for the big boys arrives, and everybody starts jumping. Of course, the obvious differences are that innovation barely existed in Soviet industries, while the computer manufacturers are just about the most innovative people of all time. But the net result turns out to be more suffering for the rest of us.””


Balls, said the Queen if I had them I would be king!
February 5, 2001 11:52:30 PM

Hobbit. We got you the first time. How about doing something more constructive with your life. Like either learning to use a computer or dying of AIDS.
February 6, 2001 3:54:33 AM

Well lets compare some data/test. Those of you who want the challenge who have GTS II, GTS II Pro or GTS Ultra download the following benchmark called Villagemark.exe:

http://www.powervr.com/downloads/downloads.htm

Use the run command on the start menu and find the directory which you unzipped villageMark and place these commands at the end of the run command. Should look like this:

1. 1024x768x32 with trilinear filtering, T&L

"path/Villagemark.exe" <b>(place the following)</b> -Width=1024 Height=768 Bpp=32 benchmark

2. 1024x768x16 with trilinear filtering, T&L

"path/Villagemark.exe" -Width=1024 Height=768 Bpp=16 benchmark

3. Other benchmarks which will be interesting for comparing the cards. Please run these as well if you could:

-Width=1280 Height=1024 Bpp=16 benchmark
-Width=1280 Height=1024 Bpp=32 benchmark
-Width=1600 Height=1200 Bpp=16 benchmark
-Width=1600 Height=1200 Bpp=32 benchmark
-Width=1024 Height=768 Bpp=16 TrilinearOFF benchmark
-Width=1024 Height=768 Bpp=16 TrilinearOFF T&LOFF benchmark

Please list your scores and the settings you used and basic setup. These test represent some of what future games will have, see if your Nvidia card has what it takes.
February 6, 2001 9:41:43 PM

Dying of AIDS? Hey I can do that.

----------------------
I don't hate Intel............ Do I?
February 7, 2001 12:07:58 AM

What, every Nvidia owner chicken? How about running those benchmarks from my last post. See how well your Nvidia product performs under a 3 texture enviroment with a high polygon count. Is it that you tested your card and are now too embarrass to divulge the dirty details? We would all like to know good or bad. Please let me know of any problems or mistakes on my part on running those benchmarks.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 02/06/01 09:10 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
February 7, 2001 12:17:33 AM

No it's just that

1. We're too lazy

2. No one is reading your post

----------------------
I don't hate Intel............ Do I?
February 7, 2001 12:36:47 AM

3. Chicken.

4. Can't read.

5. Worried that ATI does RULE!

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 02/06/01 09:38 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
February 7, 2001 1:01:25 AM

I told you already, I have complete confidence in my GF2 GTS. All benchmarks in the whole world prove it's better than Ati's crap. And I'm way too lazy. ATi blows right now, but if they have some good stuff in the future i will go with them.

We're afraid to admit ATi is better, eh? That doesn't make sense. Why in the world would we be afriad? If we though it was better we would have said so.

----------------------
I don't hate Intel............ Do I?
February 7, 2001 1:41:29 AM

"All benchmarks in the whole world prove it's better than Ati's crap."

Really. Lets see your results. Afraid to test? Lazy? I don't think so. Really I am interested in facts and maybe you can supply this community some info. GTSII may not be optimized for 3 texture graphics yet. Games will have 3 texture graphics, it is a matter of time. Nvidia the crown of superior driver releases may release drivers that allow 3 texture games to play right, I don't know. In any case people shopping around need the best info for a sound decision in buying a new video card. A $500-800 NV-20 may just not be to enticing for most folks. Besides the NV-20 has a 3 texture rendering pipeline like the Radeon. Please submit your results.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
February 7, 2001 4:06:46 AM

"-R200 looks faster so far then the NV20
-There already R400, 4x to 6x faster then NV20"


rcf84, plz tell me you were not joking when you made the above statements, if they are the truth where did you get the info from?
February 7, 2001 5:50:52 AM

I don't own a GeForce (good ole TNT) so I know I would score for crap but I don't see YOU posting any ATI benchmarks. Chicken? Can't read your own writing? Too lazy? Come on, put up or shut up.
February 7, 2001 9:33:36 AM

Why don´t you go and see Tom´s reviews !

You [-peep-]!

Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone
February 7, 2001 11:11:45 PM

hehehe, I still don't see any Nvidia results. I wonder why. Will post later after I get some things in order. This is a interesting benchmark where Nvidia seems to do poorly. That is when 3 textures at a time is thrown at a Nvidia card and alot of polygons.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
February 7, 2001 11:30:16 PM

i completely agree with rcf84. After all this time with the geforce, Nvidia stil doesn't have EMBM. Low image quality on the GF2ultra,
Nvidia can't do s*** but make it go fast, no new tech in the geforce series except for speed.
February 8, 2001 9:34:18 AM

What about T&L?
You don´t think ATI got it first , now do you?

And now that 3DFx is dead and six feet under (R.I.P!), Nvidia has the best video cards on the market!

Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone
February 8, 2001 2:25:49 PM

seriously noko, I've got a ATI card and am as eager as the next guy to proove that my card is the best (though its really not), but I really have neither time nor inclination to run every darned special-purpose benchmark out there... we know Radeon is better with triple textures, it is thus by design... pity none of today's games use it though:) 
So its not a realistic benchmark...
Nevertheless, I find that my games all run perfectly smoothly at any resolution I care to play them at, and that's enough with me... don't need 3rd party products to validate my sense of adequacy:-)
February 8, 2001 2:42:35 PM

Yeah, I was reading the info on villagemark. Is it really relevant? OK, clearly, nothing is using the triple textures. Which games in the foreseeable future will? Does anyone know of any? Or is this basically "potential" functionality?
February 8, 2001 2:45:50 PM

The radeon was made to last. Heck the 5 year warranty is very nice. The geforce2 gts will be out of date while the radeon still can play unreal 2 and quake 4.

First person to get a topic banned. ABIT BP6 Lives FOREVER!!!
February 8, 2001 3:12:45 PM

OOOOOH! What a feat!!
Any card runs Unreal 2 (Unreal Tournment is unreal 2, remember Unreal?)!

"The geforce2 gts will be out of date" Well it go out of date about 2-3 months ago with the release of the Pro and the ultra, which means that the Radeon is pretty much out of date too!

Sucker! (GeForce 2 Pro!)
Sucker!SUcker! (Geforce 2 Ultra!)

The NV20 is about to come to the market, so it means the
Radeon is going to be even more out of date!

Sucker! Sucker! Sucker! (Nv20!)

Sell your Radeon and wait for the NV20!

SUCKER!

Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone
February 8, 2001 3:25:42 PM

Would you lay off this fricking thing that I am afraid?!?!!! First of all, I am too lazy, you should know that by now. Second, my computer with the GeForce2 is missing a motherboard, cpu, and memory so how the hell can i benchmark it? Stop persuing the same thing like a small, bitching child.

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I don't hate Intel............ Do I?
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