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GeForce 2 GTS 64mb or ATI Radeon 64mb ddr

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May 29, 2001 8:08:40 PM

I have been trying to decide which card to get. I can get the radeon in a retail box from www.buy.com for $175 or the GeForce for 171 the Leadtek on pricewatch. Buy.com has free shipping once in a while so i would wait for that. Are there any other cards that would be a consideration?? Which cards are better and for what?? This is my system specs for now. I am hoping to have enough $ by the end of this summer for an Athlon 4 or palomino or whatever is the fastest. But here are my current specs for now:

AMD Athlon Classic 500
FIC SD-11
256mb pc-100 ram
3dfx Voodoo3 1000 AGP
Kenwood 72x true-x
3com 905b nic
Digital 17" monitor
SB Live Value


Does it even make sense to upgrade the vid card now or should i wait??? Are there any new cards coming out soon or any price drops that i should wait for??

Im savin up for a Cobra!! Hehe!!
May 29, 2001 8:46:59 PM

I looked at some reviews from toms hardware and it looks like the gts is a bit faster in 3d. Would the 2d be as good??

Im savin up for a Cobra!! Hehe!!
a b U Graphics card
May 29, 2001 10:55:52 PM

The GTS is FAR more powerful in 3D. But the Radeon gives a little better image quality. I own the 32MB version of both. In benchmarks, the GTS 32MB gives about 20% better 3D performance than the Radeon 32MB. But in games, the Radeon is fast enough. Plus you get a lot of extra features that you might want to use sometime with the Radeon, such as VIVO (video in, video out). Vivo allows TV output, and you can, with a bit of software (to disable copy protection), copy your DVD's to your VCR in PROFESSIONAL QUALITY. Which is illegal BTW, so don't do it. It's nice to know that you COULD though.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine
Related resources
May 30, 2001 3:57:26 AM

I would recommend the Radeon due to better 2d quality and 3d image quality. The VideoIn is a feature I didn't think I would use, now I use it all the time. I watch the news normally or tv while I am on the web. Once you start doing multiple things at once it is hard not to continue. Just more intensive. DVD quality is superb but more importantly it doesn't stop you from doing something else. For example I may stick in Metallica S&M concert DVD, force the DVD screen on top and play Quake III at 1024x768x32 at greater then 50FPS. The DVD never skips a beat neither does the music. Talking about a head rush, all I have to do in W2k is set the priority of the ATI DVD program to above normal. Do virus scans and disk optimizations doesn't affect the MMC programs as in DVD play video in etc. How about recording your favorite show, football game or whatever onto your hard drive in mpeg2 format. I've done it at 720x480 resolution without a problem. Since now I have a bigger hard drive I think I will start recording and compress them in mpeg4 format and burn a disk. Sometime in the future I will show the image quality difference between a nvidia GF2 series and a Radeon and let you be the judge. Now if you want to do linux then Nvidia is the way to go for now.
a b U Graphics card
May 30, 2001 5:03:24 AM

I've seen the difference, so I am the judge. The performance is much lower, the video quality much higher, than the GTS.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
May 30, 2001 7:43:00 AM

I would like to know how does the VideoIn feature work? A few question:-
1) Do u need a TV or just a TV cable/signal to watch TV
(If I need a TV it doesn't make sense to input it into my monitor to watch it, I can watch using the TV)
2) When you do a VideoIn, does it take up the whole screen or can u resize the window.

I have a Radeon 64M as well and really would like to optimize the usage of it. Thanks
May 30, 2001 5:26:02 PM

I have my cable box hooked up to my videoIn through the composite input. My cable box has video outputs. The sound from my cable box is hooked up to my built in sound card on my motherboard. You could also hook up a VCR the same way. The video in can be in a Window on you desktop which you can size to anything you desire, fullscreen and something really cool is on the back ground of your desktop meaning all your icons and menus will be on top. The last way is really convient for me to watch/listen to the news while I work without having window clutter. I didn't use this feature the first 3 months that I had my Radeon, now it is used all the time. Please note that the VideoIn benefits from the same technology of Adaptive de-interlacing as does the DVD player which makes the video quality extremely good. My next card will have to have this capability, it is just plain outstanding.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 05/30/01 01:26 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 30, 2001 5:28:00 PM

i never got my ATi 64 ddr card to work with that damn video in/out

i think it has something to do with my soundblaster live card
May 30, 2001 5:33:08 PM

What do you mean much lower? In Serious Sam the Radeon 64 usually beats the GTS hands down in 1024x768x32 and above and approaches the GTS Pro. In Unreal Tournament the Radeon is also usually faster then a GTS at the higher resolutions. Now QuakeIII is a different story. The Radeon 64 beats the GTS in 3dMark2001 also. For the most part a GTS performance and a Radeon 64 performance in 32 bit higher resolutions are relatively the same. Only place where the GTS is significantly faster all the way around is in 16 bit resolutions.
a b U Graphics card
May 30, 2001 6:13:01 PM

Let me guess, you compairing the Radeon 64 to the Geforce GTS 32? That's what everyone seems to do, they forget that you can get the GTS at 64 as well.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine
May 30, 2001 7:15:30 PM

For the speed of a Gts vs Radeon.

I would go for ATI, radeon have a better 3d quality and 2d quality.For the pure speed there a little bonus on gts.

For the rest of your computer try to keep it 1 year if you can.
May 30, 2001 8:04:08 PM

With that Vivo thing, what are the limitations? For instance, can video in go full screen? Also, is it just for capture, or could I say hook up a playstation 2 and play it on my monitor?

No man stands so tall, as when he stoops to tweak his rig.
May 30, 2001 8:16:36 PM

VideoIn you can have full screen, in a resizeable window or you can use it as your desktop meaning the Icons, windows etc. will be on top of it. Yes you could hook up a console to the Radeon VideoIn as long as it has a composite output. Interesting idea you have there.
May 30, 2001 8:19:43 PM

Have you tried it without the SB live card installed with drivers removed? What operating system are you using? Motherboard chipset?. MMC7.1 and DVD 4.1 solved allot of problems but it requires DX8a, Microsoft Video Update and if you have a via system 4in1 429 or greater.
May 30, 2001 8:35:14 PM

Not really, 64meg Radeon, 64meg GTS:

<A HREF="http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/Kyro2/SS_1024..." target="_new">Serious Sam AnAndTech Benchmark</A>

<A HREF="http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/nvidia/MX400/..." target="_new">Unreal Tournament AnAndTech Benchmark</A>

At even higher resolutions the Radeon pulls further ahead, the real point is the Radeon Performance is not way lower but actually pretty much equivalent for the most part. Other reviews may switch one way or another but the GF2 64meg and 64meg Radeon performs about the same. Now particular games on each board may perform better then the other like QuakeIII favors the GF2 but still the FPS is more then sufficient for most people to have excellent game play. Kyro2 is that way, it beats even the GTS in QuakeIII the Radeon in Serious Sam but other games it doesn't do well.
May 30, 2001 8:40:11 PM

The PS2's come with S-video out. I assuem that one of the video in's on the Radeon would be S-video, yes or no? I thought of this because my monitor is bigger than my TV.

No man stands so tall, as when he stoops to tweak his rig.
May 30, 2001 8:57:43 PM

The All-In-Wonder Radeon has SVHS and composite In but the Radeon 64 only has composite in. Doesn't the PS have composite out? Still the SVHS out with a high quality monitor might be interesting to look at for the PS2.
May 30, 2001 9:47:51 PM

So, it sounds like the radeon is my best choice. Should i wait a month or 2 before i get it or should i just go for it?? I heard that there is a price drop coming im in no hurry. My Voodoo3 works fine i just kinda wanted something new. Im just kinda curious could i hook up my Playstation to the video in on my VCR and the video out to the Radeon??? I've never used VIVO so i dunno.

Im savin up for a Cobra!! Hehe!!
May 30, 2001 10:08:50 PM

I don't see a problem in doing that and it sounds kinda cool. Maybe I will buy a gamecube and do the same thing. The waiting is up to you, more advance stuff comes out all the time and prices usually keep on falling until you can't buy the product any more. Now something you need to check into is the 5ns ram Radeons that are appearing now with no distintion between them and the 5.5ns ram Radeons. Go over to Rage3d.com and you will find a link for these faster Radeons on this thread. 5ns ram which would definitely put the Radeon in the GF2 Pro range of performance.

<A HREF="http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1986..." target="_new">http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1986...;/A>
May 30, 2001 10:26:39 PM

FIC SD-11 with a 500mhz classic. AMD-751 chipset too, cool!! Do yourself a favor, a big favor. Get yourself a slot A T-Bird for that mobo. Cost $76 for a 800mhz, $50 for a 750mhz. Get a gold finger device and overclock that T-Bird to up to 1050mhz! Gold fingers have built in voltage adjustments and plus dealing with a T-Bird you don't have to worry about the external cache like on the Classics. If I was you I would upgrade the cpu first then the graphics card. $50 for 50% speed boost but also a T-Bird is hard to turn down not to mention excellent overclocking potential. Those slot A T-Birds are getting more scarce now days but will perform like any other T-Bird. Check out pricewatch.com. You can find 950mhz slot A T-birds also yet.
May 30, 2001 10:59:39 PM

I only have one problem with that, Its from Compaq so im not shure how easy it would be to just pop in the card. I know it'll work with the mobo but the thing is its got the compaq BIOS so i dont kno if it'll work or if the compaq bios limits that. I kno the bios has less features and there aren't any jumpers on the mobo so i dont kno. Does anyone know if i could do that?? Would i have to put on a special cooling fan to o/c it to 1.0ghz or more??

Im savin up for a Cobra!! Hehe!!
May 30, 2001 11:06:43 PM

Actually for the AMD-751 chipset I am pretty sure it is just plug and play. Basically it is the same CPU with a higher multiplier as far as the motherboard is concerned. The gold finger device could care less about the bios, it will change the multiplier and voltage to what ever you set it to. Also sounds like you will be able to flash the bios to a Fic bios or just plain replace the bios chip with an updated version keeping the Compaq for safe keepings. Not sure of any major difference between the Fic SD-11 or the compaq version besides bios tweaks.
May 30, 2001 11:14:11 PM

Ok, So theyre the same even tho the new one is a t-bird right?? So it should work. What about a fan would my dual fan PII cooler work ok if its o/c'd or would it overheat?? It didn't come with any type of temperature monitoring software is there anywhere i could get it or something that would tell me the temp??

Im savin up for a Cobra!! Hehe!!
May 30, 2001 11:22:10 PM

Yes your current HSF will work just like on the classic. Here is the bios page for your motherboard:

<A HREF="http://www.fic.com.tw/techsupport/drivers/searchbios2.a..." target="_new">http://www.fic.com.tw/techsupport/drivers/searchbios2.a...;/A>

The most recent version fixes the AMD Thunderbird CPU (A1 sample) internal cache information whiched returned the size incorrectly. Meaning obviously the board works with T-Birds and this is only a minor fix for retrieving cache size and nothing to do with stability. Do note that the previous bioses upped the speed capability that the motherboard would recognize. So you might have to flash or replace the bios chip. Still the gains are like night and day and it should work just fine.

<i><b>PentiumII HSF, ahmmmm use a real slot A cpu HSF, there cheap, the pentium models did not fully touch the heat plate on the classics which causes the cache chips to overheat but then again on the T-Bird slot A there are no external cache chips, so maybe it will work just fine.</i></b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 05/30/01 07:26 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 30, 2001 11:42:04 PM

Here is the Gold Finger Device (GFD) I use on my KA7, a review link and a link to purchase. Kinda expensive but it works perfectly and gets what ever you SlotA processor will dish out, including a Slot A T-Bird.

<A HREF="http://www.maximum3d.com/reviews/td2.htm" target="_new">Tweaking device, no not . . . :smile: </A>

<A HREF="http://www.highspeedpc.com/" target="_new">Look under GFD's to find the TD2</A>

Now if you decide to try this let me know and I will tell you how to install without ripping the Athlon case off and you will still be able to use the motherboard cpu clips.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 05/30/01 07:44 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 30, 2001 11:53:31 PM

good to here.

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
May 31, 2001 12:15:56 AM

Im just kinda wondering, How far could i overclock my 500??

Im savin up for a Cobra!! Hehe!!
May 31, 2001 12:23:37 AM

Well $50 for a 750mhz T-bird, that will work or $41 for a GFD to an unknown speed of your classic. You probably have the first version of Athlon which was not .18 micron but a .24 micron cpu. Still they usually overcloked into the 600's anyways. I would recommend the T-Bird and then decide if you want to overclock the T-Bird further afterwards.
May 31, 2001 12:25:37 AM

hey, does the program to watch tv on your computer come with the software or do you ahve to find it, if so where do you find it? if you can watch tv on your computer with the 64mb vivo then is the only difference between that and the all-in-woinder pro a coax connection vs. rca?

repeat after me, we are all individuals!
May 31, 2001 12:30:23 AM

The All-In-Wonder Radeon and Radeon 64 VIVO comes with software to watch DVD and to anything that you hook up to the videoIn. Now the All-In-Wonder Radeon has a built in TV tuner as well. Different countries do have different connections for the input on the Radeons, here in the States the Radeon has a composite in (No coaxial connection) for the Radeon 64 VIVO and the ALL-IN-WONDER Radeon has a SVHS input also.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 05/30/01 09:58 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
June 3, 2001 9:02:14 AM

You hook your cable to your Video card. Afew question:-
1) I tried to hook up using the S-video. It is giving problem. Any idea does S-video work?
2) Can you actually change channel and stuff like that on your PC? or is it just a pure video out, and u need your cable controller to change channel..??

Thanks for the help.
June 3, 2001 4:44:46 PM

Could i hook up a vcr to the Vid in and then hook up an antennae to the vcr and hook up the line in to my SB live and use my computer as a tv/vcr/anything i hook up to the vcr or Radeon??

Im savin up for a Cobra!! Hehe!!
June 3, 2001 9:10:24 PM

Well the Radeon 64 doesn't have a SVHS IN only SVHS out. The Radeon 64 has composite Video In. The All-In-Wonder-Radeon has both composite and SVHS IN and OUT. The Radeon 64 does not have a tuner so yes you will have to control the input by what ever device you are using ie. Cable box, VCR, DVD etc. The All-In-Wonder-Radeon has a built in Turner but no remote as far as I know. Now do you have a Radeon 64 and are trying to use SVHS out? If so please tell me more info about your system.

Well to eat your <b>C :smile: :smile: kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade :smile: n II</b>
June 3, 2001 10:01:51 PM

I was considering a Geforce 3, then I thought about what people said about the new stuff coming out.

I have to have my computer made BEFORE mid-june. (30 day period of package/company insurance). UPS isn't known for their safe transportation or friendly attitude.

I looked at the radeon, and it looks nice. PriceWatch has a MSI GF2 for like 155 bucks (includes shipping)... I emailed the company that sells it, asking what memory speed it uses. I just have to wait for the answer.

I am going to go with the GF2 pro 64megger. Speed is good, but also the 16 bit boost. Also, the GF2 pro's FSAA seems pretty cool... Run it on a 800by600... probably looks sweet. Saw some screenshots with GF2 and FSAA on.

TV out is all I need. DvD player and what not. Also, this videocard will last me until Star Wars Galaxies comes out in 2nd half of 2002. (will be playing Anarchy Online before SWG).

IMacs for the blind
June 3, 2001 11:54:12 PM

Sounds good to me. Please note the new Radeon 64s being produced are now clock up from 183mhz to 198mhz and with 5ns ram vice the old 5.5ns ram. They appear to overclock easy up to 225mhz and beyond. Price, $174. <A HREF="http://www.invado.com/" target="_new">http://www.invado.com/&lt;/A>. These Radeon64 boards register in SiSoft Sandra as Radeon SE. No apparent markings on the box. Here is a link to a thread showing the improved results coming from these updated Radeons:

<A HREF="http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1994..." target="_new">http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1994...;/A>

<A HREF="http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2060..." target="_new">http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2060...;/A>

Well to eat your <b>C :smile: :smile: kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade :smile: n II</b>
June 4, 2001 12:21:07 AM

cool, I will take a look. How stable are they under Windows 98 SE?

IMacs for the blind
June 4, 2001 2:17:56 AM

The Radeon is very stable both in Win9x and W2K.

Well to eat your <b>C :smile: :smile: kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade :smile: n II</b>
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
June 4, 2001 3:31:57 AM

I have a Radeon 64 and below is my spec:-
1) Abit KT7 RAID (VIA KT133) ATA-100 Mobo with Duron 700
2) 128 mb ram
3) 15gig maxtor harddisk.
4) Creative 128
5) Cable/network card.
6) Window 98 SE
7) Microsoft Optical mouse
8) 101 Keyboard

I am actully trying to do a video in, so I can watch TV on my computer.

I also have another problem:- my TV is kind of far from my computer, any quick solution?

Also, do you have to turn on the TV to watch program on ur PC. If yes, why not just watch using TV, why the need for video in if the TV is in the room.(Has to be near since you nend to on TV and need to switch channel using TV)

I have a external TV tuner which I can hook up to the computer, that is the solution I am thinking of, what is your call?

Any comments, any one?


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ckang on 06/03/01 11:49 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 4, 2001 5:46:02 AM

You have to input something into the Video In to get something to show on your computer screen. So if you are outputing from your TV set then yes your TV has to be on. Best bet is just get a VCR with a turner or a Cable box with composite output like the mine and hook it up to your Radeon. That way you won't need to have that distant TV set turned on with a long cable (servere degradation of signal when lengths go over 3 feet). I use this feature all the time, rarely do I not use this feature when I am on the web.

Well to eat your <b>C :smile: :smile: kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade :smile: n II</b>
June 4, 2001 7:40:33 PM

When i get my radeon 64 im gonna try hooking up a VCR and using the RCA outs and using the vid. in on the radeon to watch tv through the vcr and plug in the audio to my sb live, i think that'll work. Im waiting to get it to make shure i get the 5ns memory instead of 5.5ns.

Im savin up for a Cobra!! Hehe!!
June 4, 2001 7:45:51 PM

Where did you order it from?

Well to eat your <b>C :smile: :smile: kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade :smile: n II</b>
June 4, 2001 8:03:17 PM

i havent yet. Im gonna order it from buy.com

Im savin up for a Cobra!! Hehe!!
June 4, 2001 8:34:52 PM

Also you need to update that CPU of yours, it will definitely be a bottleneck. Are you going to do that or wait on a new modo and cpu?

Well to eat your <b>C :smile: :smile: kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade :smile: n II</b>
June 5, 2001 8:35:37 PM

im waiting till i have the $ to buy the fastest athlon or whatever amd's fastest is when i have enough $ to buy it.

Im savin up for a Cobra!! Hehe!!
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
June 5, 2001 9:10:38 PM

if you will get a better system maybe You should consider also the kyro 2 (hercules 4500) ...
June 5, 2001 10:13:38 PM

Thats cool. Good luck.

Well to eat your <b>C :smile: :smile: kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade :smile: n II</b>
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
June 5, 2001 10:59:49 PM

I just bought a Radeon 64mb and it is great. I am not that schooled in video cards, so , I don't know about how to use all the Features on it. (not yet, that is). But, all in all. I am very happy with this card. Where can ya find out if the Radeon has 5ns or 5.5ns? Does it say in the specs.? Or , on the box? Hmmm, I don't know. Dang it, $175?Damn, I bought mine for 213!! From Bestbuy. Guess I should of looked around more. Such the cheapy I am... hehe
June 5, 2001 11:35:01 PM

On the Ram the last number will be 5 for 5ns ram, 5.5 for 5.5ns ram. If you use PowerSripe3 the clock for the 5ns ram will indicate 198core/198mem, for the 5.5ns ram the clock will be 183core/183mem. Really the clock speeds will be close to the above numbers like my Radeon64 clocks at 182.25/182.25. Enjoy your new Radeon, it will probably keep on surprising you as it did me.

Well to eat your <b>C :smile: :smile: kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade :smile: n II</b>
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
June 6, 2001 4:00:45 PM

Thanx for the info. This is all too funny. The Radeon was the first card I wanted along time ago while starting to build my rig. Then I tinkered around with some others. Wanted the Prophet 4500 for a while. And in the end? Right back to the card I initially wanted in the first place..hehe.
!