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Nvidia Disables PhysX in Presence of ATI GPU

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September 29, 2009 12:42:19 AM

Is anyone surprised in this day and age of anti-competitive practices? It would hardly be fitting to let anyone know that your tech works better with a competitors product. I doubt it would, but if it did, that would be the height of industry embarrassment.
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September 29, 2009 12:43:01 AM

I think someone is jealous
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a b Î Nvidia
September 29, 2009 12:54:42 AM

What a shame. Can't say I'm surprised though, this is the way NVidia has been getting recently.
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September 29, 2009 1:03:10 AM

I have a nVidia card (GeForce GTS 250) on an AMD chipset (AMD 770). Am I in trouble?
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12
September 29, 2009 1:07:43 AM

Way to go Nvidia, shoot your customers in the foot, obviously they bought an Nvidia product to accelerate PhysX. I currently run an Nvidia card, but I think my next GPU will be ATI, I am getting sick of Nvidia's child like antics.
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38
September 29, 2009 1:07:59 AM

AMD would do the exact same thing. Big damn deal.
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-22
September 29, 2009 1:08:48 AM

AMD would do the exact same thing. Big damn deal.
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September 29, 2009 1:11:15 AM

I guess some lawyer will get rich by filing class-action lawsuit against Nvidia for falls advertisement. They advertised and sold their cards with PhysX and now they don't hold to the their side of the bargain.

And the second thought, This move could be the doom for PhysX. Just like beta-max failed because the "brilliant" decision by Sony to maximize their profits from licensing fees.
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27
September 29, 2009 1:12:38 AM

Who cares? How many users care about Physics, 0.0001%?

Nvidia has no DX11 hardware to date.
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September 29, 2009 1:14:29 AM

No, this only regards those with ATi AND nVidia GPU's in the same machine. The chipset is something completely different so have no fear.
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September 29, 2009 1:17:28 AM

3rd party driver anyone?
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25
September 29, 2009 1:18:55 AM

this should be illegal. when I buy a car I am not limited to just the gas the manufacturer uses, I can use arco, 76, shell, etc..
This is nvidia telling the users what they can do with the technology purchased.

What next, certain games only rendering on certain GPU turning the PC into another POS console.

When I build a computer I build it to remove all bottlenecks in performance and if nvidia goes through with this nvidia and all the products they make will be furthermore labeled as bottleneck.
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23
September 29, 2009 1:23:58 AM

No Schnikes, this is really getting good between red and green. It's like some sort of a mini drama series on t.v. I can't wait to see what happens next. The 5870 and X2 are going to claim every title out there. Team green is going to have to, and I hope they do, put out a card that is fantastic.

So keep nipping at each other because it creates a rivalry that is plain old great for the consumer. It's also entertaining as hell.
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September 29, 2009 1:26:29 AM

I guess
montezumaAMD would do the exact same thing. Big damn deal.


I guess they feel the same about people like you who complain about their business tactics and state their intention to move over to a different company. The ONLY reason to go with either ATi OR nVidia is because you believe the individual card you are looking to buy is the best performer for your personal budget.

SAL-eAnd the second thought, This move could be the doom for PhysX. Just like beta-max failed because the "brilliant" decision by Sony to maximize their profits from licensing fees.


I doubt it as PhsyX is already fairly well intergrated within the Driver base. It's just a transition for it to become just another instruction set for the developers.

However, with Ageia now part of nVidia and Havok being owned by Intel, ATi may have some serious questions to answer very soon.

leon2006Who cares? How many users care about Physics, 0.0001%?Nvidia has no DX11 hardware to date.


First, I care about PhysX as I do about every other componant and software regarding my graphics. The development of PhysX and Havok's engine is all for better and more realistic environments and greater detail to effects. With a question like that you might as well go back 20 years and ask 'Who cares about 3D graphics?'
Second, Why do nVidia need DX11 hardware right now? Windows 7 is the only software that is capable to use it and that is not even released yet (officially, not counting RC and BETA) No games are going to be developed fully for a long time to come. DiRT2 is only going to use slight graphic enhancements, thats all.
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September 29, 2009 1:27:28 AM

@leon2006 Way to go moron. PhysX =/= Physics.

Physics... you know, its the reason you have a computer, a car, pretty much explains how everything works. If you don't believe in Physics, then you probably have an unnatural affinity towards the divine and thats no way to lead your life, always deferring to some unseeable spectre.
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September 29, 2009 1:30:04 AM

chainsaw667this should be illegal. when I buy a car I am not limited to just the gas the manufacturer uses,


Actually, Yes you are... it's about the hardware mechanics, not the company. They are not banning XFX, ASUS...etc.... They are deciding the mix of mechanics. So you buy a Petrol car and try to run Diesel...'Putt, putt, putt...' dead engine!
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September 29, 2009 1:30:35 AM

thats gay! fortunately GPGPU will fix this problem good and proper!
thats until nvidia just decide to half the clock rate of the gpu if there is an ATI one present in the system.

Of course there is a real easy solution to this problem. just buy ATI!

between this and your dodgy drivers nvidia, I don't really thing YOU wanna be laying down an ultimatum. Because I know which brand I'll pick if I can only pick one!
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September 29, 2009 1:33:59 AM

Matt87_50.Of course there is a real easy solution to this problem. just buy ATI!between this and your dodgy drivers nvidia, I don't really thing YOU wanna be laying down an ultimatum. Because I know which brand I'll pick if I can only pick one!

Go ahead... as ATi have no PhysX attachment yet watch your games crash to a stutter or have all the visual specials unavailable to you with every new game that is developed and optimized for PhysX either through nVidia's engine or Intel's... lmao
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September 29, 2009 1:41:44 AM

Just dont mix them. If you love PhysX so much, get two Nvidia cards. If you care about DX11 'right now' get ATI cards...

else just stick with the built in gpu and be a dork :) 
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September 29, 2009 1:56:02 AM

thats the question of the hour... will future games use physx(nvidia), havok(intell), OpenCL, or some DX11 flavor... any way you cut it it should be intresting... i'm hoping for opencl or dx11 for platform Independence.
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September 29, 2009 2:07:42 AM

schizofrogGo ahead... as ATi have no PhysX attachment yet watch your games crash to a stutter or have all the visual specials unavailable to you with every new game that is developed and optimized for PhysX either through nVidia's engine or Intel's... lmao


You're right, I should reward nvidia's anti-competitive ways... ATI don't have PhysX because PhysX is OWNED by Nvidia. The future of Physics and indeed any GPGPU software is through platform independent languages like openCL and, to a lesser extent, DX11 (hard to call it platform independent when it's windows only). It won't be long until there is a physics library written in one of these languages.

Then unless nVidia wanna share PhysX, the sdk will go the same way as the hardware did!
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September 29, 2009 2:29:02 AM

What about people with a onboard ATI Video and they are using a Nvidia GPU?
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September 29, 2009 2:29:22 AM

Wanna see a Physics api in future DirectX versions to kick nvidia in the balls, anyway never used PhysX because it lowers frame rate too much , and switching to ATI on 5870.
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September 29, 2009 2:48:03 AM

khimera2000thats the question of the hour... will future games use physx(nvidia), havok(intell), OpenCL, or some DX11 flavor... any way you cut it it should be intresting... i'm hoping for opencl or dx11 for platform Independence.


blizzards big titles are going to use HAVOK; SC2 and Diablo 3. I thought ATI had HAVOK but it was owned by intel and nvidia had physx
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September 29, 2009 2:49:51 AM

rvbepplerI have a nVidia card (GeForce GTS 250) on an AMD chipset (AMD 770). Am I in trouble?

No. You will be fine as long as you're only using the nVidia card for graphics (ie you're monitors are plugged into the nVidia card and not into any graphics ports on the motherboard).
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September 29, 2009 2:53:43 AM

Matt87_50thats gay!

Excuse me, I take offense to using that phrase in that manner. Next time think before you post/speak.
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September 29, 2009 2:55:27 AM

I usually buy gfx card with best bang for the buck on my budget. Living in Switzerland, Nvidia for some reason has been way more expensive than the ATI's. Even though I used to like Nvidia I can only want to stay away more and more from them.
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a b Î Nvidia
September 29, 2009 3:11:19 AM

What do you mean you bought a new 5870? Well then fine, we won't let you use your old 8800GT for PhysX. Bad customer, no PhysX for you. No we're not being whiny little bitches.
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September 29, 2009 3:16:44 AM

Quote:
Although having both ATI and Nvidia hardware inside a PC is unlikely


I don't think it is as unlikely as you might think. I for instance have a motherboard with an NVIDIA chipset and an ATI video card. I'd imagine having a PhysX card and an ATI video card would almost as likely as having an NVIDIA card with that PhysX.
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September 29, 2009 3:18:41 AM

Well i just build a new pc x58 and got a 5870. All this does is take away the only shot they had of me buying a nivida gpu. If the wanted another sell why not let us use it.
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September 29, 2009 3:24:04 AM

ravewulfExcuse me, I take offense ...

who cares....
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September 29, 2009 3:24:49 AM

BOOOOOO!!!!!

But seeing as PhysX appears to be dying anyway...this will probably only accelerate its demise, speeding up its eventual porting into OpenCL.

Sorry NVidia, I've supported you guys while you've sweated a bit against ATi, even buying a couple of your cards explicitly for the purposes of using NVidia PhysX and ATi graphics together when Win7 releases...but this ploy isn't going anywhere with me. As an owner of NVidia products, I'm pretty disappointed.
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September 29, 2009 3:30:37 AM

PhysX will die out within 5 years or so. Why? There are free equivilents open to developers which are both easier to use and will be compatible with a larger customer base.

Hmm... get PhysX, pay Nvidia a licensing fee, and make your game only run at its best for half your consumers, or use OpenCL for free and ensure everyone can use it. There's no reason any sane developer would opt for PhysX over OpenCL. Unless there's a major overhaul, PhysX is dead.
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a b Î Nvidia
September 29, 2009 3:31:00 AM

Yeah, that's why this move doesn't make sense. Regardless of how you feel about the future of physX, you've got to agree that the more people use it the more likely it is to be fully adopted. Not to mention, this option allowed them to make money with people who they would not normally (ATI customers). Maybe a couple of years ago it looked like they were on the verge of taking out ATI, but now it is clear they are here to stay and compete equally, which makes a Physics program only for their cardsa hopeless failure. Either they will let it run on ATI, or it will slowly die out as the open (or Havok) Physics programs improve.
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September 29, 2009 3:43:14 AM

I just got a 48701gb and wanted to use my old 8800gt for physx and sadly I got let down =[
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September 29, 2009 3:49:31 AM

Don't make me bitch slap you, nVidia!

If you really want to make PhysX something useful (and considering the fact that my GTS 250 does have PhysX built in, I want it used!) do what you did to your own GPU's for ATI, too! If somebody's got the requisite 256 MB of VRAM, let them use the technology, nvidia GPU or not. Doing the same for CUDA couldn't hurt either.
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September 29, 2009 4:08:59 AM

ravewulfExcuse me, I take offense to using that phrase in that manner. Next time think before you post/speak.


Would you prefer he call it heterosexually challenged? :) 
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September 29, 2009 4:16:11 AM

ravewulf Why should he/I care about what offends you? If you get offended because the choices you made that's your problem not his/mine. I suggest you get over it the world doesn't revolve around you.

And I think this is pretty stupid of nvidia. While this maybe rare, and doesn't really effect most of use that simply use ATI/Nvidia for w/e reason. You're still gonna lose those people that want to do things this way. Because ATI isn't pissing on them YOU are. Who do you think their gonna stick with? Lack of common sense ftw!
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September 29, 2009 4:44:55 AM


khimera2000thats the question of the hour... will future games use physx(nvidia), havok(intell), OpenCL, or some DX11 flavor... any way you cut it it should be intresting... i'm hoping for opencl or dx11 for platform Independence.


While I mostly agree, I'm not sure what the standard Physics Api will be. DX11 and OpenCL don't offer physics by themselves - just physics making tools. Perhaps Physx and Havok will both use DX11 or OpenCL ? I herd a rumor about a Microsoft Direct Physics - this can solve a lot of problems.
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September 29, 2009 4:47:18 AM

schizofrogFirst, I care about PhysX as I do about every other componant and software regarding my graphics. The development of PhysX and Havok's engine is all for better and more realistic environments and greater detail to effects. With a question like that you might as well go back 20 years and ask 'Who cares about 3D graphics?'Second, Why do nVidia need DX11 hardware right now? Windows 7 is the only software that is capable to use it and that is not even released yet (officially, not counting RC and BETA) No games are going to be developed fully for a long time to come. DiRT2 is only going to use slight graphic enhancements, thats all.


You stated, "look back 20 years and ask who cares about 3D Graphics."

Then in your next statement you said, "Why does nVidia need DX11 now? Windows 7 is the only software that is capable to use it and that is not even released yet (officially, not counting RC and BETA) No games are going to be developed fully for a long time to come. DiRT2 is only going to use slight graphic enhancements, thats all."

I say go back to 1995 and ask, "Who needs DirectX 9."
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September 29, 2009 6:10:06 AM

People actually use PhysX?
That news to me.

...
What's our CPU for then?
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Anonymous
September 29, 2009 6:23:58 AM

That does it. No more nVidia kit for me!
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September 29, 2009 6:27:04 AM

it would be nice if havok worked with opencl, it would at least open the potability of the engine to work with any video card they might even use it to drive cpu sells. perhaps Microsoft will come out with there own physics engine although i have my doubts at least until a "next gen" console release. I'm pretty certain that what ever standard "next gen" console adopt will probably become a significant part of the PC side.

I do hate how PC games development is being crippled by console projects.
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September 29, 2009 6:29:50 AM

"Nvidia supports GPU accelerated Physx on NVIDIA GPUs while using NVIDIA GPUs for graphics. NVIDIA performs extensive Engineering, Development, and QA work that makes Physx a great experience for customers."
Unless that customer also owns an ATI card. They've already given you their damn money, the least you can do is support them like every other customer.
Instead, we get:
"Hello, paying customer. I see that in addition to paying us your money for our product, you also bought a product from our competitor. NO SOUP FOR YOU!"
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September 29, 2009 6:31:29 AM

Can anyone say "backlash"?

If you sell a card, even if only to accelerate PhysX, it means you made some profit.
If you sell no card that means you made zero profit.

How does that help nVidia's business model?!

And let's not discuss ethics here: if you pay for a product, you expect it to work fully. Now the manufacturer comes and disables functionality?!
Sure, why not? Next step: skip nVidia hardware altogether. Further helping the winning business model...
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September 29, 2009 7:09:52 AM

This also brings up a question... why is it starting to take so damn long for Nvidia to make drivers? its been almost 2 months. And woot Nvidia for keeping PhysX to them selves. But didnt that also just cut out a bit of market for them?
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September 29, 2009 7:52:56 AM

It goes to show how nasty business/competition can get.
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September 29, 2009 7:59:29 AM

Is there any alternative to PhysX that can do fluid particle effects smoothly?
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!