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Bad refurbished motherboard

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Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
May 28, 2005 8:00:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I'm working on a friend's Dimension 4600. The system is absolutely dead --
no fan noise, no beeps, no front-panel lights or diagnostic lights, only the
green light on the board. A PC Power & Cooling Power Supply Tester shows the
power supply is good. I have replaced the front-panel connector from the
power button to the motherboard, and, I have replaced the motherboard with
an expensive new one from Dell, which, to our surprise, is labeled as
refurbished. The system is still absolutely dead with no signs of life
except for the green light on the board. I assume the problem has to be in
the "new" refurbished motherboard. Suggestions?
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
May 28, 2005 8:00:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

you need to remove all the boards hard drive connectors memory and processor
and see if you get any beep codes. It is possible it is another bad mobo
but also possible something is shorting it out too

Wayne


"William J. Lunsford" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:b1Sle.2352$uu.1473@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> I'm working on a friend's Dimension 4600. The system is absolutely dead --
> no fan noise, no beeps, no front-panel lights or diagnostic lights, only
> the green light on the board. A PC Power & Cooling Power Supply Tester
> shows the power supply is good. I have replaced the front-panel connector
> from the power button to the motherboard, and, I have replaced the
> motherboard with an expensive new one from Dell, which, to our surprise,
> is labeled as refurbished. The system is still absolutely dead with no
> signs of life except for the green light on the board. I assume the
> problem has to be in the "new" refurbished motherboard. Suggestions?
>
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
May 28, 2005 11:24:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"William J. Lunsford" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>I'm working on a friend's Dimension 4600. The system is absolutely dead --
>no fan noise, no beeps, no front-panel lights or diagnostic lights, only the
>green light on the board.

If the CPU is bad, it will never do anything.

Could the memory be bad? Some machines with no memory won't do
anything, though some will give beep error codes.

Also try a DVM on the power supply when it's plugged into the board, a
Port-80 diags code capture card, and Wayne's suggestion of unplugging
_everything_ from the board (except known-good CPU and memory).
Related resources
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
May 28, 2005 1:09:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"William J. Lunsford" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:b1Sle.2352$uu.1473@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> I'm working on a friend's Dimension 4600. The system is absolutely dead --
> no fan noise, no beeps, no front-panel lights or diagnostic lights, only
> the green light on the board. A PC Power & Cooling Power Supply Tester
> shows the power supply is good. I have replaced the front-panel connector
> from the power button to the motherboard, and, I have replaced the
> motherboard with an expensive new one from Dell, which, to our surprise,
> is labeled as refurbished. The system is still absolutely dead with no
> signs of life except for the green light on the board. I assume the
> problem has to be in the "new" refurbished motherboard. Suggestions?
>

Sounds like a bad CPU to me
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
May 28, 2005 1:46:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Never assume when troubleshooting components but I also agree that another
board exhibiting the same symptom is very unlikely. The tester is not a
foolproof way of checking the PS and it may be that the PS is still not up
to snuff. The DVM test is the only sure way to know.

This might help.....but be sure that the wiring is the same as a standard
PSU before testing. I do believe that the 4600 is a standard ATX PS though.

http://www.ochardware.com/articles/psuvolt/psuvolt.html

And yes the next place to go to would be the CPU. It may have seen better
days.

Regards,
John O.

"William J. Lunsford" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:b1Sle.2352$uu.1473@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> I'm working on a friend's Dimension 4600. The system is absolutely dead --
> no fan noise, no beeps, no front-panel lights or diagnostic lights, only
> the green light on the board. A PC Power & Cooling Power Supply Tester
> shows the power supply is good. I have replaced the front-panel connector
> from the power button to the motherboard, and, I have replaced the
> motherboard with an expensive new one from Dell, which, to our surprise,
> is labeled as refurbished. The system is still absolutely dead with no
> signs of life except for the green light on the board. I assume the
> problem has to be in the "new" refurbished motherboard. Suggestions?
>
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
May 28, 2005 3:00:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

It should still do the POST with appropriate beep codes, even w/o any
thing else working. POST precedes all other functions including BIOS
loading.

KC
<William P. N. Smith> wrote in message
news:42lg911beiho7ihvd0tavm2rv5umlbch1e@4ax.com...
> "William J. Lunsford" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >I'm working on a friend's Dimension 4600. The system is absolutely
dead --
> >no fan noise, no beeps, no front-panel lights or diagnostic lights, only
the
> >green light on the board.
>
> If the CPU is bad, it will never do anything.
>
> Could the memory be bad? Some machines with no memory won't do
> anything, though some will give beep error codes.
>
> Also try a DVM on the power supply when it's plugged into the board, a
> Port-80 diags code capture card, and Wayne's suggestion of unplugging
> _everything_ from the board (except known-good CPU and memory).
>
May 28, 2005 5:15:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Do you get a " kick"when plugging in the psu on the fan blades, if not then
its more than likely a faulty PSU, it could be a DOA board but the chances
of a board coming out of the factory with the same fault as the one you have
are very slim, and it will in 99% of all cases be a refurbished board, the
only time you will get a brand new board is if the model has just been
launched
"William J. Lunsford" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:b1Sle.2352$uu.1473@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> I'm working on a friend's Dimension 4600. The system is absolutely dead --
> no fan noise, no beeps, no front-panel lights or diagnostic lights, only
> the green light on the board. A PC Power & Cooling Power Supply Tester
> shows the power supply is good. I have replaced the front-panel connector
> from the power button to the motherboard, and, I have replaced the
> motherboard with an expensive new one from Dell, which, to our surprise,
> is labeled as refurbished. The system is still absolutely dead with no
> signs of life except for the green light on the board. I assume the
> problem has to be in the "new" refurbished motherboard. Suggestions?
>
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
May 28, 2005 5:59:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

><William P. N. Smith> wrote in message
>> If the CPU is bad, it will never do anything.

"Kevin Childers" <wildthing123@charter.net> top-posted:
> It should still do the POST with appropriate beep codes, even w/o any
>thing else working. POST precedes all other functions including BIOS
>loading.

I still maintain that a bad CPU will not allow the board to do
_anything_ at all. As Ben pointed out, POST _is_ a BIOS function.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
May 28, 2005 5:59:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

<William P. N. Smith> wrote in message
news:tnbh919vahrisjv9e7gr0m7rvdsfg1k63e@4ax.com...
> ><William P. N. Smith> wrote in message
> >> If the CPU is bad, it will never do anything.
>
> "Kevin Childers" <wildthing123@charter.net> top-posted:
> > It should still do the POST with appropriate beep codes, even w/o any
> >thing else working. POST precedes all other functions including BIOS
> >loading.
>
> I still maintain that a bad CPU will not allow the board to do
> _anything_ at all. As Ben pointed out, POST _is_ a BIOS function.
>
Yes and the machine loads BIOS from the BIOS chip and does it's Power On
Self Test to check the systems hardware. Even with a bad CPU the BIOS
function activates first and checks hardware. The beep code is transmitted
via a micro-speaker built into the board. This allows it to report even if
there are multiple hardware failures and before any other software loads to
access anything else on the system.

KC
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
May 28, 2005 9:41:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Not quite. The POST is a specialized program which is part of the motherboard
BIOS... Ben Myers

On , "Kevin Childers" <wildthing123@charter.net> wrote:

>
>NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 09:01:00 MST
>Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 11:00:58 -0500
>Xref: Hurricane-Charley alt.sys.pc-clone.dell:36031
>
> It should still do the POST with appropriate beep codes, even w/o any
>thing else working. POST precedes all other functions including BIOS
>loading.
>
>KC
><William P. N. Smith> wrote in message
>news:42lg911beiho7ihvd0tavm2rv5umlbch1e@4ax.com...
>> "William J. Lunsford" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> >I'm working on a friend's Dimension 4600. The system is absolutely
>dead --
>> >no fan noise, no beeps, no front-panel lights or diagnostic lights, only
>the
>> >green light on the board.
>>
>> If the CPU is bad, it will never do anything.
>>
>> Could the memory be bad? Some machines with no memory won't do
>> anything, though some will give beep error codes.
>>
>> Also try a DVM on the power supply when it's plugged into the board, a
>> Port-80 diags code capture card, and Wayne's suggestion of unplugging
>> _everything_ from the board (except known-good CPU and memory).
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
May 28, 2005 9:41:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I stand corrected, but it does precede all other software loading and should
beep if the board and the bios chip have any life in them at all. If you
leave out any essential component you should get a beep code for it or the
single/double beep for "All Hardware Found OK".

KC

<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
news:4298ad02.16951634@nntp.charter.net...
> Not quite. The POST is a specialized program which is part of the
motherboard
> BIOS... Ben Myers
>
> On , "Kevin Childers" <wildthing123@charter.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 09:01:00 MST
> >Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 11:00:58 -0500
> >Xref: Hurricane-Charley alt.sys.pc-clone.dell:36031
> >
> > It should still do the POST with appropriate beep codes, even w/o any
> >thing else working. POST precedes all other functions including BIOS
> >loading.
> >
> >KC
> ><William P. N. Smith> wrote in message
> >news:42lg911beiho7ihvd0tavm2rv5umlbch1e@4ax.com...
> >> "William J. Lunsford" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >> >I'm working on a friend's Dimension 4600. The system is absolutely
> >dead --
> >> >no fan noise, no beeps, no front-panel lights or diagnostic lights,
only
> >the
> >> >green light on the board.
> >>
> >> If the CPU is bad, it will never do anything.
> >>
> >> Could the memory be bad? Some machines with no memory won't do
> >> anything, though some will give beep error codes.
> >>
> >> Also try a DVM on the power supply when it's plugged into the board, a
> >> Port-80 diags code capture card, and Wayne's suggestion of unplugging
> >> _everything_ from the board (except known-good CPU and memory).
> >>
> >
> >
>
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
May 29, 2005 1:19:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

It all depends on how bad the CPU is. If the CPU is dead, dead, dead, there is
absolutely no way no how that the BIOS code can run. To put it another way,
without an operational CPU, the BIOS can do nothing. To put it still another
way for absolute clarity in the matter, the BIOS is a program which needs a
functioning CPU to run. The computer does not "load" the BIOS. The BIOS is
hardwired to a set of memory addresses as part of the motherboard design. When
the CPU first wakes up, it gets pointed to the first instruction in the BIOS to
run.

If the CPU is limping along somehow and not completely dead, the BIOS code may
execute, either properly or haphazardly depending on the CPU malfunction.

.... Ben Myers

On , "Kevin Childers" <wildthing123@charter.net> wrote:

>
>NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 11:49:09 MST
>Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 13:49:05 -0500
>Xref: Hurricane-Charley alt.sys.pc-clone.dell:36042
>
><William P. N. Smith> wrote in message
>news:tnbh919vahrisjv9e7gr0m7rvdsfg1k63e@4ax.com...
>> ><William P. N. Smith> wrote in message
>> >> If the CPU is bad, it will never do anything.
>>
>> "Kevin Childers" <wildthing123@charter.net> top-posted:
>> > It should still do the POST with appropriate beep codes, even w/o any
>> >thing else working. POST precedes all other functions including BIOS
>> >loading.
>>
>> I still maintain that a bad CPU will not allow the board to do
>> _anything_ at all. As Ben pointed out, POST _is_ a BIOS function.
>>
> Yes and the machine loads BIOS from the BIOS chip and does it's Power On
>Self Test to check the systems hardware. Even with a bad CPU the BIOS
>function activates first and checks hardware. The beep code is transmitted
>via a micro-speaker built into the board. This allows it to report even if
>there are multiple hardware failures and before any other software loads to
>access anything else on the system.
>
>KC
>
>
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
May 29, 2005 3:04:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Kevin Childers" <wildthing123@charter.net> wrote in message
news:0B0me.15123$eR.4396@fe05.lga...
> It should still do the POST with appropriate beep codes, even w/o any
> thing else working. POST precedes all other functions including BIOS
> loading.
>

I have had more than one system that would not POST or beep during power up.
This includes 3 MSI boards that had a bad capacitor next to the CPU socket
(one reason I no longer use MSI). I have also had two systems where a failed
CPU was the cause.
Believe me several areas can cause the board to due nothing at power on.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
May 29, 2005 1:56:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Kevin Childers" <wildthing123@charter.net> wrote:
>Even with a bad CPU the BIOS
>function activates first and checks hardware.

Umm, no it doesn't. Without a CPU you will get nothing. Try it
sometime. IME, having no memory will cause the same problem in some
cases as well.

When you turn on the power, does the power supply fan spin up? Do the
CPU and any fans spin up? How about hard drives? When the power is
on, can you open and close CD-Rom drawers? I'm not even convinced
that you're getting power. [I've seen things like wedged floppy
drives that draw too much power cause the supply to fire up and then
immediately go into (overcurrent?) shutdown.]
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
May 30, 2005 12:14:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

<William P. N. Smith> wrote in message
news:g7ij91lbm1j028ct5i8j89b9serpsdf3g6@4ax.com...
> "Kevin Childers" <wildthing123@charter.net> wrote:
>>Even with a bad CPU the BIOS
>>function activates first and checks hardware.
>
> Umm, no it doesn't. Without a CPU you will get nothing. Try it
> sometime. IME, having no memory will cause the same problem in some
> cases as well.
>
> When you turn on the power, does the power supply fan spin up? Do the
> CPU and any fans spin up? How about hard drives? When the power is
> on, can you open and close CD-Rom drawers? I'm not even convinced
> that you're getting power. [I've seen things like wedged floppy
> drives that draw too much power cause the supply to fire up and then
> immediately go into (overcurrent?) shutdown.]
>

The (single) POST beep is indicative of a successful (basic hardware)
initialization and BIOS load.

If you've got a total CPU failure, you ain't loading squat - including BIOS.
One can get partial post w/o RAM installed but initialization will hang at
the memory check and expected error/beep codes ( and the accompanying
amber-amber-green-green diag LED indicator).

Partial CPU failure symptoms may and will vary wildly but pull the CPU
entirely and you'll get pretty much nothing but flea power on the system
board and perhaps a brief flash from the diag LEDs in back (on a Dell) when
the system is plugged and powered.

Regarding a "dead" system (i.e.- No boot, no POST beep, no diag LEDs,
no/partial/or full fan function with brief drive spin up and flea power LED
illuminated) most anything can cause this. This is why the system should be
'stripped' in an attempt to generate error codes or any attempted POST
activity. All cables and cards should be disconnected and removed from the
board - including RAM and video. All power should be disconnected from any
drives or cards. The only connections desired are the (2) power supply
connects to the mainboard, the power switch connector - and leaving the CPU
installed.

The point of this is only to generate beep codes and to narrow down the
problem components individually as they are added back to the system.

If the system doesn't respond when stripped, then the suspects are limited
to the system board, the cpu itself, the power supply, or lastly - and
somewhat more rare- the power switch.

A cheap "go, no-go" tester can be used to check the power supply, perhaps a
multimeter/voltmeter for the other items. I have plenty of spares so I'm
almost always able to swap the CPU/PS or switch to identify which is failed.
It's admittedly tough for some folks who don't have the tester(s) or benefit
of spares.

Not unlike William, I've seen everything from modems to floppy drives to
hard disks "kill" a system by all visual indicators.


Stew
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
June 9, 2005 12:31:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I apologize for taking so long to get back to the group. I thank everyone
for the replies. It was the power supply after all. As soon as the power
supply was replaced, everything was fine. I would have tried swapping out
the power supply sooner, but I didn't have one for a Pentium 4 and didn't
want to purchase one to try when the original tested good. I'll know better
next time.

"William J. Lunsford" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:b1Sle.2352$uu.1473@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> I'm working on a friend's Dimension 4600. The system is absolutely dead --
> no fan noise, no beeps, no front-panel lights or diagnostic lights, only
> the green light on the board. A PC Power & Cooling Power Supply Tester
> shows the power supply is good. I have replaced the front-panel connector
> from the power button to the motherboard, and, I have replaced the
> motherboard with an expensive new one from Dell, which, to our surprise,
> is labeled as refurbished. The system is still absolutely dead with no
> signs of life except for the green light on the board. I assume the
> problem has to be in the "new" refurbished motherboard. Suggestions?
>
!