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nVidia 52.16 slower on GF4 Ti cards ???

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October 26, 2003 9:28:07 PM

I've tested latest 52.16 drivers on my GF4 Ti4400 & I've found that these drivers are really slow on my card.

I've switched back to my old 45.20, cause, i've lost a lot of frame rate in new games .

As Fraps reports, i was getting more than 60fps in Max Payne 2 @ 1280x1024x32bpp + 2xFSAA with 45.20, but, the game runs too slow now with new 52.16 drivers.

In TR AOD, i was getting more than 40 fps @ 1280x1024x32bpp, but i'm getting 25 fps now with new 52.16 drivers.

So, maybe i'm wrong & my windows has become crazy again, but i think that these new 52.16 drivers are slower on non GeForce FX cards.

Can somebody post his results with previous GeForce FX hardware cards ?
October 28, 2003 8:25:20 PM

I downloaded those drivers last night and tried Max Payne 2 aswell. Nice to see i'm not the only one who experienced this!
I have the same card as you so maybe the new drivers just arn't made for it.

I noticed some of the graphics looksed different in Max Payne 2. It's almost like the card is trying to implement some of the directX 9 stuff but just can't do it.

Hopefully there will be a fix or something. I was looking forward to seeing some directX 9
November 1, 2003 8:51:40 PM

The Nvidia drivers, detenotor and forceware both, produce problems with my geforce 4800Se, i gone back to using the Leadtek ones that came with the card. The new forceware gives 'catostrophic error', when i try to access properties.
Related resources
January 15, 2004 11:39:13 PM

I constantly switch between 2 monitors and monitor + tv.

I have a GF Ti440. When I try to switch outpurs under the 5x.xx drivers my display drivers crash horribly. The same thing happens sometimes when I change refresh rate.

Sometimes if I wait long enough XP will recover into some sort of graphic card safe mode.

When I revert to the 49.xx drivers all the problems go away.

I have pretty much tested each 5x.xx release and all have the same problem (nview 3 apparently). So I just gave up.
January 15, 2004 11:57:46 PM

its appearing to be that nvidias new drivers do not support the older geforce2,4,ti series cards, i think its because they want to force you to buy a new fx series card and boost sales, just my opinion though....dont hold your breath waiting for a "fix" cause it aint gonna happen...

Fat, Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life Son.
January 21, 2004 11:43:34 AM

the newer drivers 45.xx+ are tweaked so that they give off a better image qlty but at a lower fps. they did this to make the games look more beautyfull WITHOUT AF and FSAA enabled. So those of you who want performance stick with the old drivers.

Sory for the bad english
February 17, 2004 12:05:19 PM

I own a (I know this really sucks) GeForce2MX400 with 64 MB. Not till soon ago I had detonator 40.72 installed (Win XP) and I would get about 3 fps in Morrowind with maximum settings. After I installed Force Ware 53.03 performance boosted to 10fps (quite an increase).
A very important fact that matters is who assembled the card (MSI, 3D tech, etc.). Mine is quite the last edition of it assembled by MSI(works cool, but I plan an upograde).
February 19, 2004 10:54:04 AM

That's not true.
The oldest card i tried 53.04 on was a GF4-MX440 with no problem at all.
Your problems lie elsewhere.
February 19, 2004 11:25:29 AM

not true? do you know how many weeks i have tried to solve this problem? you dont have a clue! as soon as i go back to the older drivers the problems disappear, i have spent countless nights and weekends adjusting every setting available and they simply wont work, if the problem existed in only one of my machines i would buy that, but it exists in all 5 of my machines, from my athlon 2500xp, to my tualatin celeron 1400 and everything in between. the newer drivers simply do not function well with the older cards, do a search on this problem, you will find thousands of results like mine, i am not the only one with this problem. ever wonder how many users nvidia lost over this bulls**t of writing s**t drivers? i know they lost my business.

Fat, Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life Son.
February 19, 2004 6:29:42 PM

I agree with you allanon. I USED to have a GF3 Ti200 64MB, which I was quite happy with BTW. But the problem was, to get maximum performance, I had to use V44.03 drivers. Anything new than that an my performance would drop, somethimes drastically.

Since then I have changed to a R9600XT, (which ROCKS BTW), and I can upgrade to newer drivers and not have to worry about degrading my performance.

Spec:
Intel P4 2.4B
MSI 645E Max-U Mobo
512MB DDR333
R9600XT 128MB
SB Live 5.1
WD 60GB
Maxtor 120GB
LG DVD+-R/RW
WIN2K PRO SP4
February 20, 2004 8:06:51 AM

I don't have to have a clue as to how hard it was for you to make your cards work. You're saying that the newer drivers don't support the older cards. Well, i'm sorry if this will trouble you but i never had that problem. Most of the people i know did not have a problem EXCEPT maybe with ONE specific driver. So, if they are people with older cards that have no troubles with the newer drivers, what makes you insist that it isn't so?
Maybe if all those people had a reason to be posting about how they don't have a problem with the newer drivers then it would be more obvious to you. But of course they don't need to. So don't get the wrong idea.
February 20, 2004 8:13:54 AM

The fact that some driver is FASTER than another, newer one IS true in certain cases. But it is FAR from saying that the new ones DO NOT support the older cards!

If you don't like the performance of a newer driver it doesn't mean it is not better for someone else that does not care that much about frame rates.
If i want speed in games then i'd use 44.03 with my GF4ti, but where i DON'T need speed i use the latest drivers. In that respect they proved to be better and they posed no problems with old cards.
February 20, 2004 10:56:44 AM

well you are insisting that it isnt the problem, ever think that you are the exception rather than the rule? how many times have you talked to nvidia support? i will bet not as many times as i have, and they told me if i wanted less trouble with the vid card, i should buy a new one! keep in mind, they said less trouble, not any trouble.

Fat, Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life Son.
February 20, 2004 11:49:43 AM

I never said that newer drivers don't support older cards. In my experience, with older hardware (2-3 yrs old) and new drivers, the performance gained is either neglegible (<5% improvement) or in some cases performance degrades.

That is only my experience and doesn't hold true for all hardware/driver configurations.

Spec:
Intel P4 2.4B
MSI 645E Max-U Mobo
512MB DDR333
R9600XT 128MB
SB Live 5.1
WD 60GB
Maxtor 120GB
LG DVD+-R/RW
WIN2K PRO SP4
February 24, 2004 6:51:37 AM

"well you are insisting that it isnt the problem, ever think that you are the exception rather than the rule?"

No, because it's not just me; most of the people i personally know never had that problem (except maybe ONCE with some driver, like i already said), plus most of the people that i happened to talk to about the newer drivers (in person or online) agreed that there is no compatibility issue involved. Frame rates, sure. Otherwise, nope.

"how many times have you talked to nvidia support?"

None. I never had to. What's your point?

"they told me if i wanted less trouble with the vid card, i should buy a new one!"

That might have been because since they don't built your card, or any other card, there MAY be some other issues on implementation involved... or, maybe, that was just the standard shameful marketing policy (or WHATEVER other reason) that STILL does not prove your point. What are you saying? that since you have problems AND you happen to know others that have/had similar problems means that that is the RULE? Do you ever wonder how (and WHY) you came to know that those others exist? What about the rest that you DIDN'T get to know? Why do you think you don't know THEM? You get my point?

"keep in mind, they said less trouble, not any trouble".

Oh, i see your point now!... what you are saying is that they indirectly admitted that you would STILL have troubles with their NEW cards as well! So, I guess they admitted to you that their cards ARE crap!!! Wow! then i guess you are right!!
Right?

Pfft!
If you want to go on believing what you want, you can then do so and join all the others that think this one thing is wrong while it's the other...
As for me, i'll just quit here... all this i feel is probably making me look like a fanboy, so thank you but i'll pass...
February 24, 2004 7:03:16 AM

"I never said that newer drivers don't support older cards. In my experience, with older hardware (2-3 yrs old) and new drivers, the performance gained is either neglegible (<5% improvement) or in some cases performance degrades.
That is only my experience and doesn't hold true for all hardware/driver configurations."


Thank you!
Very true!
That was exactly my point! I don't see where the issue is!
February 24, 2004 11:43:34 AM

well then where is my ONE problem? oh great nvidia guru? so what nvidia based card is the proper one? one that works? whats the point to upgrading drivers if the framerate falls? thats the whole point to video cards! if you dont use yours for anything more than viewing text, fine, but most people use theirs for GAMING. if you dont game then whats the point of your replies? your have nothing relevant to contribute to this thread if you dont use it for the main purpose most use them for. how can you compare your experience with the newest drivers? "plus most of the people that i happened to talk to about the newer drivers (in person or online) agreed that there is no compatibility issue involved. Frame rates, sure. Otherwise, nope." you agree about problems with framerates, well that IS a compatability problem. that is my point. if you use the newest drivers on the older cards, you suffer performance and compatability issues. period. nvidia should fix that problem but they wont.


Fat, Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life Son.
February 25, 2004 4:57:57 AM

Quote:
"well then where is my ONE problem? oh great nvidia guru?"

You are obviously confusing me with someone else.

"so what nvidia based card is the proper one? one that works?"

I believe you're missing the point which was (for anyone that bothers to read ALL the previous posts) whether the new drivers support older cards or not. You are stuck with the issue of speed where if a new driver that comes out makes framerates drop for some other benefit is automatically considered bad and not compatible and a reason to bash the company!
LOL!

"whats the point to upgrading drivers if the framerate falls? thats the whole point to video cards! if you dont use yours for anything more than viewing text, fine, but most people use theirs for GAMING".

Oh brother, there we go again. If that's what you believe newer drivers is about, fine, go on believing it. The world i live in also take into consideration things like bugs and features. If you don't care about those, that's fine, but others do.

" if you dont use yours for anything more than viewing text, fine, but most people use theirs for GAMING. if you dont game then whats the point of your replies? your have nothing relevant to contribute to this thread if you dont use it for the main purpose most use them for."

Wow! how did you know i don't use it for anything else than viewing text??? GAMING???? What's that? Umm, no, i guess i don't have anything relevant to contribute here... so sorry!

Man, don't you realise how arrogant you act? You seem so determined to bash nvidia for some reason that it ends up being ridiculous...

"you agree about problems with framerates, well that IS a compatability problem. that is my point. if you use the newest drivers on the older cards, you suffer performance and compatability issues. period. nvidia should fix that problem but they wont".

Frame-drop (on the occasional drivers that cause that) is a side-effect because of some other improvement. Does that make the driver not compatible with the card?
No.

Do you choose to want the improvements in the newer driver over framerates?
No.

Can others choose the improvements?
Yes.

Can you still use the older driver and retain frame rates for you?
Yes.

Do you personally (or ANY other user) have the option to use whatever driver you want depending on what you consider more important (frame rate/ bug fix/ new feature/ better image quality) to you at a given moment?

YES!

Do those drivers give new features and improvements to cards that are even more than 3 years old?
Yes.

When (and if) they have some drawback like some frame-drop does it mean they are not compatible with the older card?
No.
Only to fanboys that look for some reason to be unreasonably unfair and and bash some company...

So, since you really want to do that, go ahead. Be a fanboy. I'm sure in the perfect world you live in all other companies that make drivers can be used with year old cards...
I'll REALLY stop this here. I'm not a fanboy that looks at everything else negatively, trying to find a whatever reason to create false impressions and raise issues to glorify or bash a company.
Fair is fair, and in your case it is not...
February 25, 2004 11:03:18 AM

you are obviously the same type of person who would upgrade the engine in their car to a newer one that didnt have all the functionality of the original" well it does get a bit better gas mileage sir, but it only allows the car to go 20 miles per hour, and it only starts on days the temperature is above 70 degrees, and its vibrates the car a bit, but hey, it getes a couple miles to the gallon better economy and it is great as long as you dont really want to drive your car too much" that is exactly what you are saying about nvidia new drivers. sure i have the choice to not use them, but the point is if they are going to issue new ones, they should be FULLY compatable with the old cards. there is nothing wrong with my older cards except nvidias lack of concern over problems with them using the newest drivers, and i am not the only one, there are thousands with the same problem

Fat, Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life Son.
February 26, 2004 4:47:28 AM

Man, WTF are you talking about?????
Not only an arrogant fanboy but an ignorant too!
The guy never said what you're saying, you're just trying to make a point for your own sake. If you want to be stupid and spread lies around why don't you go and post them in the graphic cards forum and see how fast your a$$ will get kicked! That will be a nice way for you to meet the other thousands that think people like you are just plain dumb! Maybe you'll learn something and save yourself the trouble of looking dumb.
Sheesh!
Sick and tired of fanboys like you. You're everywhere! Get your story straight or do us all a favor and STFU!
February 26, 2004 6:00:24 AM

So what's all the fuss fanboy? Do you understand your card? Nope: it has a limited processing power (not infinite, like all processing hardware has).Newer drivers bring improved video quality,meaning more proc pow for Q, so lower framerates. It's all your choise.
In fact NVIDIA OFFERS YOU THE CHOISE, because you can DOWNLOAD OLDER DRIVERS FROM NVIDIA SITE, in case you don't have them. So stick with the old ones for higer framerates.
P.S. It's just like a catalogue(of drivers). You choose.
February 26, 2004 11:24:21 AM

beat it nvidia fanboy...

Fat, Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life Son.
February 27, 2004 3:43:43 AM

LMAO!

Fat, Drunk and Stupid is reeeeally no way to go through life, son!

Read mR nUKE's post, it's for -guess what- you!!!
Learn to read better!!!
You're the fanboy here, son!
So beat it yourself!
February 27, 2004 4:05:32 AM

not very original, no points for you loser....

Fat, Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life Son.
February 27, 2004 4:19:29 AM

do you understand the point? no. the point is nvidia shouldnt make new drivers that dont support older cards properly. period. they can write them better, they simply dont because they want to force people to upgrade. its called "designed obsolescence".

Fat, Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life Son.
February 27, 2004 10:19:50 AM

Congratulations loser!
You just proved the hopelesness of your case! :lol: 

Fat, Drunk and Stupid it is then...
February 27, 2004 11:18:40 AM

hehehe, you are so clueless.......

Fat, Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life Son.
March 2, 2004 12:27:38 PM

S far as I'm concerned, ATI cards may be better refering to speed terms(Ex: FX5200 and Radeon 9200), but the realistic scenes come only with NVIDIA.
P.S.I'm not an NVIDIA fanboy.I only know who's the best.ATI may be the best if it focuses more on quality of it's cards.
March 2, 2004 4:41:41 PM

Quote:
do you understand the point? no. the point is nvidia shouldnt make new drivers that dont support older cards properly. period. they can write them better, they simply dont because they want to force people to upgrade. its called "designed obsolescence".

obsolesence happens whether its designed into a product or not, its called progress. ti4200 is a great card...but its almost the end of the line and thats something no driver will be able to fix. and my next card is going to be a radeon 9800 pro, so dont trot out that tired f word.

in the mean time, i've used 52.16, 53.03 and now the 56.56 drivers (from guru3d) for my ti4200 without any problems. have i lost framerates....maybe. but i cant tell without running a benchmark, so who cares.

i got lucky that the driver releases work with my card, for some cards it doesnt. if they release a driver that doesnt work with my card, i'll just revert to a driver that does, and move on with my life. driver updates would be few and far between if they were expected to work with every ti4xxx ever made every time. as others have said in this thread, the drivers work with most older cards, but in some cards they dont produce better performance (whether you measure better in picture quality or framerates). thats why nvidia keeps a long list of drivers available for download, so you can revert to one that best fits your needs.
March 3, 2004 8:24:33 AM

That's exactly what I've said. I've done some heavy research and came up with this:
5x.xx drivers use a lot of performance to increase video quality. The FX serie, for wich these drivers were designed have enough power in them to be able to handle high framerates. For the Ti serie, such power is not avalaible, so the framerates go down a little bit.
UNLIKE ATI, NVIDIA ALLOWS YOU TO DOWNLOAD OLDER DRIVERS,(I've searched the ATI site and were unable to find any drivers for ATI RAGE , but could very easily found drivers for NVIDIA RIVA TNT on NVIDIA's website),like Detonator whatever(3x.xx, 4x.xx), Force Ware whatever(5x.xx), you name it. Actually I could download every driver NVIDIA has ever made. It's not that they don't write them better or that we're talking about incompatibilty issues, it's just that the Force Ware drivers(5x.xx) are optimized for FX cards, as I've explained in this post
March 3, 2004 8:35:22 AM

I just want to make sure you get me:
- GPU's operate under a limit of performance(not infinite)
- Force Ware drivers bring improved video quality, despite the lower framerates
- they are optimized for faster cards than the Ti serie
- the Ti serie cannot support so much processing, resulting in lower framerates
- you can download drivers that bring higher framerates from NVIDIA
- framerates should increase if Detonator drivers are used on FXcards (in theory)
- Drivers are being written "in theory" and then tested
- Optimized for something else doesn't mean incompatibility
- ATI does not offer you older drivers
March 3, 2004 9:25:35 AM

"I recently installed the latest catylist drivers from ATI. I get slower performance than I do with the ones I currently use, that are several versions back. I tried the Omega version of them as well....same effect. I'm talkin just basic windows stuff...opening files, windows, etc. Things lag, it's weird. Anyway I'm running a P4 3.06gig, on an Asus P4P3 board. The graphics card i'm using is a Radeon 9700 Pro."
Just wanted to know if anyone else is experiencing the same thing. I guess the old saying "if it ain't broke, dont fix it" holds true in my situation. heh =P"
Click <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/software/modules.php?nam..." target="_new"> this </A>, for more details.
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