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The fait of the industry

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Anonymous
September 4, 2005 1:06:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

>From talking to many ops in the Michigan and Ohio times look grim for
arcades. Namco is closing over 150 locations a year. I know of eight
non namco arcades in Michigan that will be closing in the next year or
so if things don't change. Insurance prices are on the way up and
ops cant afford to pay off the machines, 50/50 deals don't cut
expenses for most locations in high rent areas. Are we looking at
another market crash like 1983? I just wanted to see what every ones
opinion on this matter is.

~Paul

More about : fait industry

Anonymous
September 4, 2005 2:12:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

I agree with that. I mean a lot of these arcades closing are the ones
filled with like 10 cruising erotica's and a million coin pushers and
not much of a variety. I only go to arcades with at least one pin. I
think the going rate on games are around 6-20 grand ea. Think of all
this money ops are sitting on. If the market crashes they are screwed.
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 2:15:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

The arcade's started having issues when the home consoles started to be
able to mimic game play of the arcade stuff. Now the home consoles game
play is just as cool or better than what you see in your average
arcade. If the technology gap was as big as it was in the 80's the
arcade's would still be making a killing.

I think too many people sacrifice the true arcade experience to be able
to sit their fat asses on the couch and play Xbox. That's just my
opinion.

Todd
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Anonymous
September 4, 2005 2:44:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

That's not an opinion, Todd, that's reality. The market crashed in the
early 80s and has been struggling since because of home consoles. At
some point, kids realized that they can sit at home and play Nintendo
for as long as the want (in their pajama's nonetheless) without ever
inserting a quarter. How can you beat that?
Now, games are so similar and transition from arcade to home console so
fast that there's no need to go to an arcade.
September 4, 2005 4:36:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

If companies were making good games, people would play them. The driving,
fighting thing has been played to death and people no longer care yet that's
all you see in arcades. Only recently have more games come out that had
more thought and creativity behind them.. probably too little too late..

/b


"A&A Alternaitve" <Pknific@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125849991.171361.314740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >From talking to many ops in the Michigan and Ohio times look grim for
> arcades. Namco is closing over 150 locations a year. I know of eight
> non namco arcades in Michigan that will be closing in the next year or
> so if things don't change. Insurance prices are on the way up and
> ops cant afford to pay off the machines, 50/50 deals don't cut
> expenses for most locations in high rent areas. Are we looking at
> another market crash like 1983? I just wanted to see what every ones
> opinion on this matter is.
>
> ~Paul
>
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 6:30:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

Pretty simple. Walk through any casino, there are the customers, there are
the manufacturers. LTG :) 

"A&A Alternaitve" <Pknific@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125849991.171361.314740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >From talking to many ops in the Michigan and Ohio times look grim for
> arcades. Namco is closing over 150 locations a year. I know of eight
> non namco arcades in Michigan that will be closing in the next year or
> so if things don't change. Insurance prices are on the way up and
> ops cant afford to pay off the machines, 50/50 deals don't cut
> expenses for most locations in high rent areas. Are we looking at
> another market crash like 1983? I just wanted to see what every ones
> opinion on this matter is.
>
> ~Paul
>
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 9:00:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

I've noticed that most that come out anymore are just HUGE. Voyager
namely, but almost all I've seen utilize huge monitors and huge
control panels and I would imagine most are quite expensive. I was
doing some reading on the Atari Museum site and found that Atari
basically would spend a grand on a cabinet and whatever the price of
production was, then charge the distributor double. So the profit
margin was pretty high. I thought I read $3000 at the time was rather
steep, but I do recall asking an op what one costs and he did say
$3000 back in 1980. I can only imagine the costs now. Plus, running
along the lines of prOk's statement the games aren't very good. I
mean someone coming up with Defender/Tempest or whatever, those were
highly original games back in the day leaving one wondering what the
designer was smoking to come up with the concept. You didn't really
need fancy graphics if the game was good. I think more dedication to
fancy graphics over gameplay is the rule today.

On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:36:59 -0400, "prOk" <bsonej@hotmail.com> wrote:

>If companies were making good games, people would play them. The driving,
>fighting thing has been played to death and people no longer care yet that's
>all you see in arcades. Only recently have more games come out that had
>more thought and creativity behind them.. probably too little too late..
>
>/b
>
>
>"A&A Alternaitve" <Pknific@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1125849991.171361.314740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >From talking to many ops in the Michigan and Ohio times look grim for
>> arcades. Namco is closing over 150 locations a year. I know of eight
>> non namco arcades in Michigan that will be closing in the next year or
>> so if things don't change. Insurance prices are on the way up and
>> ops cant afford to pay off the machines, 50/50 deals don't cut
>> expenses for most locations in high rent areas. Are we looking at
>> another market crash like 1983? I just wanted to see what every ones
>> opinion on this matter is.
>>
>> ~Paul
>>
>
>
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 1:57:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

there are a number of problems...

a. Same old tired games over and over... the ONE arcade near me has 12 (yes
12) different driving games... another dozen fighters and the rest gun games
and quarter pushers... this gets boring VERY quick... quite frankly I have
gun./driving/shooters at home.. there's no reason for me to take my kids to
an arcade (and this is just on the xbox... not even counting the *good*
stuff which is all that and more).
2. consoles... there is just no pressing difference to justify going to an
arcade
3. price... at a dollar a play for what is often a minute or so it's just
plainly ridiculous... the ops would do just as well setting everything to a
quarter... odds are they're going to dump the same amount of money as they
other wise would.. and it might just snag a few who think a buck is to much
money.

arcades are dead... there is NO, absolutely NO redeeming reason to go to an
arcade. The only place I see them surviving (that is if the cab makers can
stay in business) is at tourist attractions (casino's, shore points,
resorts, etc.). Long gone are the days where you take your kids out to the
arcade for fun...

the really sad thing is that the equipment makers are doing NOTHING to try
to reinvent the genre. When was the last time anything new was released...
Didn't the Sega dude just post here a few days ago anouncing all the "new"
games (which are all just version 2794298.3 of whatever
fighting/shooting/driving game they're revving...

if they want to do something then design somethign that you CAN'T play at
home... of course none of them would take the risk so they are doomed to
failure...

steve
"A&A Alternaitve" <Pknific@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125849991.171361.314740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >From talking to many ops in the Michigan and Ohio times look grim for
> arcades. Namco is closing over 150 locations a year. I know of eight
> non namco arcades in Michigan that will be closing in the next year or
> so if things don't change. Insurance prices are on the way up and
> ops cant afford to pay off the machines, 50/50 deals don't cut
> expenses for most locations in high rent areas. Are we looking at
> another market crash like 1983? I just wanted to see what every ones
> opinion on this matter is.
>
> ~Paul
>
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 3:16:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 21:57:39 GMT, "Steve Muccione"
<home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote:
>3. price... at a dollar a play for what is often a minute or so it's just
>plainly ridiculous... the ops would do just as well setting everything to a
>quarter... odds are they're going to dump the same amount of money as they
>other wise would.. and it might just snag a few who think a buck is to much
>money.

Yea I've sadly noted that. But they started getting away from a
Quarter around the release of Dragon's Lair. It seems almost all the
games I've seen that are fairly new are designed to kill you quickly,
just to munch another quarter in continuation. That in itself is a
turn-off.
Sure, games are alot more expensive these days, but how the
kid-economy is today, I have no idea. I know it was really cool to be
able to walk up to the token changer and pop in a 5$ bill maybe on a
Friday or Saturday and have a ball at a quarter a game. But most of
the time through the week I'd put in a buck at a time and you shopped
the games.
Now I have no idea what kids are able to spend.
But another point is that there was also that mystique of another
great game being just around the corner. Part of it was to go in,
week by week to see what was new. The exhileration of new games
coming out 2 or 3 times a month. That's just not there anymore.
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 4:40:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

I'm no op running the latest and greatest games, but as a collector, I
have developed a small arcade route to keep my hobby financed.

There are a couple of things that I've learned in doing this...
Although I've never had the money to drop 5-20k on a brand new fancy
pancy game, I have found that sometimes my "older" games will
outperform many "newer" ones based on the fun factor. Anymore... if
it's not a game that me and my friends can play without getting bored
quickly, it's not a game I want to put on location, no matter how "new"
it is.

Another thing.... I find that I make more money one quarter at a time.
Typically 10-20% more. True the games are getting about 110% more
play contiributing to quicker failure of components, but it also means
that more kids are having more fun on my machines more often.... thus
attracting more attention and the cycle continues.

I have to wonder if it's catching on also. Two years after I started
doing this, I've noticed another local op starting to set prices at a
quarter, even for their fancy new stuff. I also notice those games
suddenly getting a whole lot more play.... After all... what's a
quarter for a moment in another world which that game takes you to?
And after all I've got a quarter or two floating around in my pocket,
so why not? Two, three, or even four quarters.... I'm not sure if I
want to go there, I think this candy bar looks better to me.

I'm in it for the fun factor.... If I can have fun on these games,
usually the kids will too. If I price it less than that candy bar over
there, then chances are I get the quarter over Nestle.

Of course there are other factors, location, game mix, matching the
games to the type of clientel (demographics), but my main point is that
it is my opinion that the industry has outpriced itself. The high
price may have worked while there was a tech gap between the arcade and
the console, but that gap is gone.... You gotta go for the impuse buy
now.
September 5, 2005 6:27:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

I have been saying this for several years.Everyone got on my case when i
posted about this 2-3 years ago.I had a thriving Video/Pinball/Vending sales
business for about 18 years and right after 9/11 happened i watched sales
plummet.I always had a very big warehouse with never less then 150+ games in
it set up like an arcade so people would always love to come and try all the
games.I can't complain because i used to average 200.000+ profit a year for
many of those years.But once 9/11 happened Retail customers lost interest
and then with all the new technology type game you could buy for home use
and also Mame killed that completely.I still have a smaller warehouse now
and still make a few bucks on the side when a good deal comes along.But i
have enough experience in many businesses to know when it's about
over.That's not to say that nobody can make money at it anymore.But i had
posted that people who had allot of games in stock should dump them soon
before there worth pennies on the dollar.And if you notice there are more
posts then ever for guys that want to sell all their stuff.I saw it coming-3
years ago.I always shake my head when someone asks me if it would be a good
idea to open an Arcade now.YEA RIGHT:) )
"A&A Alternaitve" <Pknific@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125849991.171361.314740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >From talking to many ops in the Michigan and Ohio times look grim for
> arcades. Namco is closing over 150 locations a year. I know of eight
> non namco arcades in Michigan that will be closing in the next year or
> so if things don't change. Insurance prices are on the way up and
> ops cant afford to pay off the machines, 50/50 deals don't cut
> expenses for most locations in high rent areas. Are we looking at
> another market crash like 1983? I just wanted to see what every ones
> opinion on this matter is.
>
> ~Paul
>
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 6:51:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

I wish it were possible for arcades to come back. But as you conveyed
it's pretty grim right now. Perhaps these things run in fads?

On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:27:09 -0400, "MARK" <MARKLINE@OPTONLINE.NET>
wrote:

>I have been saying this for several years.Everyone got on my case when i
>posted about this 2-3 years ago.I had a thriving Video/Pinball/Vending sales
>business for about 18 years and right after 9/11 happened i watched sales
>plummet.I always had a very big warehouse with never less then 150+ games in
>it set up like an arcade so people would always love to come and try all the
>games.I can't complain because i used to average 200.000+ profit a year for
>many of those years.But once 9/11 happened Retail customers lost interest
>and then with all the new technology type game you could buy for home use
>and also Mame killed that completely.I still have a smaller warehouse now
>and still make a few bucks on the side when a good deal comes along.But i
>have enough experience in many businesses to know when it's about
>over.That's not to say that nobody can make money at it anymore.But i had
>posted that people who had allot of games in stock should dump them soon
>before there worth pennies on the dollar.And if you notice there are more
>posts then ever for guys that want to sell all their stuff.I saw it coming-3
>years ago.I always shake my head when someone asks me if it would be a good
>idea to open an Arcade now.YEA RIGHT:) )
>"A&A Alternaitve" <Pknific@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1125849991.171361.314740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >From talking to many ops in the Michigan and Ohio times look grim for
>> arcades. Namco is closing over 150 locations a year. I know of eight
>> non namco arcades in Michigan that will be closing in the next year or
>> so if things don't change. Insurance prices are on the way up and
>> ops cant afford to pay off the machines, 50/50 deals don't cut
>> expenses for most locations in high rent areas. Are we looking at
>> another market crash like 1983? I just wanted to see what every ones
>> opinion on this matter is.
>>
>> ~Paul
>>
>
>
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 5:27:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace (More info?)

It would be very hard for any kind of comeback. My experience from 1980 (
video fad year ) and 2000 is that in 1980 I had ten times the income and one
tenth the expenses. Now it's one tenth the income and ten times the
expenses. Be pretty hard to have a fad again without having way higher
income levels and way lower expenses. That would take a bigger fad than the
original one. Would be nice to see again though. LTG :) 

"Zinfer" <rmassman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:431d03bf.142618718@news-server.woh.rr.com...
> I wish it were possible for arcades to come back. But as you conveyed
> it's pretty grim right now. Perhaps these things run in fads?
!