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Sounds of Silencers Are Loud and Clear: PCs Are Too Noisy

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Anonymous
June 2, 2005 9:44:51 AM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

June 2, 2005
Sounds of Silencers Are Loud and Clear: PCs Are Too Noisy
Hobbyists Hear a Whisper And Improvise a Damper; A Computer Oil Bath
By CHARLES FORELLE
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

Carl Bohne has a half-dozen computers in his St. Louis home, in various
stages of disassembly. He's hard at work putting together a shrunk-down
machine the size of a toaster.

Mr. Bohne isn't trying to soup up computers for added power. He wants
to quiet them down. Bothered by a noisy PC a few years ago, he took it
apart to figure out what was causing the clamor.

Now, building quiet machines is his chief hobby. His computers are
packed with foam insulation, noise-damping filters and custom-sculpted
hunks of copper that divert heat from the microcircuitry so the
built-in fans won't have to work so hard.

Long an afterthought in the performance-obsessed world of technology,
computer hum is topic A for a growing "quiet computing" movement.
Although the noise from a standard desktop registers only about 30 to
35 decibels -- roughly the level of a whisper -- for some, it is a
cacophony that must be muffled.

"When I go visit other people, it drives me nuts," says Isaac Kuo, a
computer programmer in Baton Rouge, La. "I can always tell where the
computer is unless it is turned off." But he keeps it to himself. "I've
long since discovered not to even bring it up with any friends, because
they just don't care," he says.

Tomas Risberg, a Stockholm neurologist, calls computer noise "a freedom
issue." Why "should I have to listen to something I don't want to
listen to?" demands Dr. Risberg, who helped persuade the Swedish
government to adopt computer-noise standards.

Quiet computing isn't just being practiced on the fringes. More
mainstream manufacturers are seeing value in quieter PCs. Some of
Lenovo Group Ltd.'s new IBM-brand desktops have a cooling system
engineered to reduce noise. Apple Computer Inc. markets its new Mac
mini as "whisper-quiet." Dell Inc. maintains several acoustics labs
with echo-free test chambers, in part to ensure that its machines meet
the various noise guidelines employed in Sweden and around Europe.

Designers say noise is becoming more of an issue as PCs rev up and push
their way into the living room to play digital music, video and games.
A computer's mechanical parts -- including cooling fans and spinning
disk-drives -- generally work harder as a PC takes on more tasks. And
noise barely noticed amid the buzz of the workplace can be less welcome
at home.

The sounds the silencers are trying to vanquish can be very small. A
fast, loud gaming PC can hit some 55 decibels, measured from three feet
away -- about equivalent to the background noise in a mall. Nirvana for
silencers generally comes below 20 decibels, which is a sound all but
inaudible, even close by.

Mr. Bohne, who makes his living as an auto mechanic, ekes out the most
cooling from the fewest fans by cramming the insides of his PCs with a
carefully engineered system of ducts that direct cool air to hot spots.
He uses whatever is handy -- a plastic cookie jar, a clothes-dryer
exhaust hose -- and picks up bits and pieces at the hardware store.

Serious silencers post pictures and swap tips on sites such as
SilentPCReview.com1. One popular tweak described on the site:
suspending disk drives on a hammock made of elastic bands to reduce
vibrations transferred to the computer's shell.

For insulation, silencers buy up sheets of Sorbothane, an elastic
polyurethane valued for its damping properties that is used in the
insoles of sneakers and in shotgun recoil pads. They also turn to a
cottage industry of online retailers selling special, quieting parts,
including flower-shaped copper "heatsinks" (about $45) that draw heat
away from a chip more efficiently than the aluminum that comes standard
in many PCs.

SilentPCReview.com founder Mike Chin, a music lover who plays piano and
guitar, has set up a studio in a converted kitchen of his Vancouver,
British Columbia, home. Equipped with a digital microphone and a
sensitive sound meter, he records computers and parts in action, then
posts the recordings to the site, where the discriminating audiophile
can evaluate their "sound signature" for various annoyance factors.

Mr. Chin, who sometimes consults with companies, says the worst
emanations are the "pure tones" -- or whines and hums that come from
spinning parts or vibrating metal. Also bad are repetitive clicks from
a shoddy fan. Less objectionable is the gentle whoosh, which tends to
fade into the background. "It's the sound of trees, it's the sound of
waves," Mr. Chin says.

Michael Campbell, an engineer in Plano, Texas, said he turned to a
quiet PC after suffering with a Hewlett-Packard Co. Pavilion model
"just a little bit quieter than this side of a jet engine."

Ameer Karim, an H-P executive, says the Pavilion machines have gotten
quieter in recent years, and he says that H-P's internal acoustic
testing shows that its machines are "equal to or, in most cases, better
than our competitors."

Mr. Campbell replaced the PC with an $1,800 custom quiet model from
Endpcnoise.com, a small Web retailer, about 18 months ago. Mr. Campbell
says it was "worth every penny. ...You don't really know that it is
running unless you look at the power light."

Jon Schoenborn, Endpcnoise.com's general manager, says interest in
quiet computing is picking up rapidly. His offerings include such items
as a 70-pound, $1,200 computer case dubbed the "TNN," for "Totally No
Noise." It dissipates heat, entirely without fans, by transferring it
over copper pipes to the box's thick metal walls. The price is for the
case alone, with no computer inside.

Russ Kinder, an architect in Grand Rapids, Mich., turned to a more
radical approach: computer submersion. After setting up a PC that had
to run day and night, he didn't want any nocturnal buzzing. So, he
says, he plunged the computer into an acrylic tank filled with mineral
oil.

Other liquids, like tap water, would conduct electricity and fry the
circuitry. But oil is nonconductive. Mr. Kinder says it worked fine as
a muffler, so long as he topped off the oil occasionally to replace
what had evaporated. He admits the oil gummed up his hard drive until
he figured out a way to detach it from the rest of the computer and
suspend it above the tank.

Mr. Kuo first became concerned about noise when he hooked up a computer
to his living-room TV set in order to watch digital movies on the big
screen. Doing so required a faster graphics card, which came with a
noisy fan. "It just got to be too much," he said. Whenever the movie
got quieter, "instead of hearing quietness, you heard buzzing-buzzing
like someone operating a power tool in the next room."

Several modifications later -- which included replacing a few parts and
engineering an air duct out of an empty plastic snack cup, sliced in
half -- the setup was quiet enough to be drowned out by the ticking of
his wall clock.

"My wife, she thought it was perfectly fine," Mr. Kuo said. But he was
still bugged. "This is what happens when you start getting into quiet
computing. Your standards for how loud is too loud...get lower and
lower."

More about : sounds silencers loud clear pcs noisy

Anonymous
June 2, 2005 12:37:47 PM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

> Now, building quiet machines is his chief hobby. His computers are
> packed with foam insulation, noise-damping filters and custom-sculpted
> hunks of copper that divert heat from the microcircuitry so the
> built-in fans won't have to work so hard.

What a waste. All one needs to do is 1) get a less noisy fan (mine is
whisper quiet), and/or 2) just put the thing inside a compartment in
the desk.

> Tomas Risberg, a Stockholm neurologist, calls computer noise "a freedom
> issue." Why "should I have to listen to something I don't want to
> listen to?" demands Dr. Risberg, who helped persuade the Swedish
> government to adopt computer-noise standards.

Yeah, more nanny government at work. Now the price is probably $20
higher because of all the insulation.


> Mr. Kuo first became concerned about noise when he hooked up a computer
> to his living-room TV set in order to watch digital movies on the big
> screen. Doing so required a faster graphics card, which came with a
> noisy fan. "It just got to be too much," he said. Whenever the movie
> got quieter, "instead of hearing quietness, you heard buzzing-buzzing
> like someone operating a power tool in the next room."

This guy should have lived in my house when I had my tropical fish tank
going. It was like I lived next to Niagra Falls :-)
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 2:05:24 PM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

I know what's causing the irritating noise in my new computer :(  It's the
old WD backup hdd I installed. That's why I was hoping that disabling the
drive would cause it to stop spinning...it didn't. Enabling the drive and
choosing to turn off HDD after (x mins/hours) powers it down and things are
nice and quite again till I (or something seemingly unrelated) activates it
again.
Monica
"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
news:1117716291.805790.190940@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> June 2, 2005
> Sounds of Silencers Are Loud and Clear: PCs Are Too Noisy
> Hobbyists Hear a Whisper And Improvise a Damper; A Computer Oil Bath
> By CHARLES FORELLE
> Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
>
> Carl Bohne has a half-dozen computers in his St. Louis home, in various
> stages of disassembly. He's hard at work putting together a shrunk-down
> machine the size of a toaster.
>
> Mr. Bohne isn't trying to soup up computers for added power. He wants
> to quiet them down. Bothered by a noisy PC a few years ago, he took it
Related resources
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 9:40:11 PM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

In article <1117716291.805790.190940@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote:

> June 2, 2005
> Sounds of Silencers Are Loud and Clear: PCs Are Too Noisy
> Hobbyists Hear a Whisper And Improvise a Damper; A Computer Oil Bath
> By CHARLES FORELLE
> Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
>
> Carl Bohne has a half-dozen computers in his St. Louis home, in various
> stages of disassembly. He's hard at work putting together a shrunk-down
> machine the size of a toaster.
>
> Mr. Bohne isn't trying to soup up computers for added power. He wants
> to quiet them down. Bothered by a noisy PC a few years ago, he took it
> apart to figure out what was causing the clamor.
>
> Now, building quiet machines is his chief hobby. His computers are
> packed with foam insulation, noise-damping filters and custom-sculpted
> hunks of copper that divert heat from the microcircuitry so the
> built-in fans won't have to work so hard.

Sounds like a fun hobby, but those who want a dead quiet machine without
going to such trouble should consider Apple's Mac mini. That machine is
nearly completely silent, half the size of a typical toaster, and it
does not come with all the baggage that Windows PCs have. See
http://www.apple.com for information on the Mac mini.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 5:47:06 AM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

The Dell desktops of recent years have been quite quiet. Before that, I used
to go to extraordinary efforts to control PC noise pollution, but that
hasn't been necessary for the current and recent Dells.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 10:12:04 AM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

The DELL Dimension 3000 with 2.66GHz Celeron is really quiet. Just a
whisper. I bought a 2.8GHz P4 for a client and it was annoyingly louder. I
suppose the moral of this story is pay a little more and get a lot more
noise for your money.

I sell these systems based on how quiet they are. The customers really
appreciate the silence. I just hope that DELL don't run out of the Celeron
chips!

"Talkin Horse" <davidrolfeN0SP&AM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:uEOne.4440$s64.3396@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> The Dell desktops of recent years have been quite quiet. Before that, I
> used to go to extraordinary efforts to control PC noise pollution, but
> that hasn't been necessary for the current and recent Dells.
>
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 11:51:28 AM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

"Shawn Hearn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:srhi-FA613F.17401102062005@news.giganews.com...
> In article <1117716291.805790.190940@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote:
>
>> June 2, 2005
>> Sounds of Silencers Are Loud and Clear: PCs Are Too Noisy
>> Hobbyists Hear a Whisper And Improvise a Damper; A Computer Oil Bath
>> By CHARLES FORELLE
>> Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
>>
>> Carl Bohne has a half-dozen computers in his St. Louis home, in various
>> stages of disassembly. He's hard at work putting together a shrunk-down
>> machine the size of a toaster.
>>
>> Mr. Bohne isn't trying to soup up computers for added power. He wants
>> to quiet them down. Bothered by a noisy PC a few years ago, he took it
>> apart to figure out what was causing the clamor.
>>
>> Now, building quiet machines is his chief hobby. His computers are
>> packed with foam insulation, noise-damping filters and custom-sculpted
>> hunks of copper that divert heat from the microcircuitry so the
>> built-in fans won't have to work so hard.

> Sounds like a fun hobby, but those who want a dead quiet
> machine without going to such trouble should consider
> Apple's Mac mini. That machine is nearly completely silent,

Easy to do with a Win PC.

> half the size of a typical toaster, and it does not
> come with all the baggage that Windows PCs have.

Mindless one eyed bigotry.

> See http://www.apple.com for information on the Mac mini.

Yawn.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 11:51:29 AM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Rod Speed wrote:

> "Shawn Hearn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:srhi-FA613F.17401102062005@news.giganews.com...
>
>>In article <1117716291.805790.190940@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>>"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>June 2, 2005
>>>Sounds of Silencers Are Loud and Clear: PCs Are Too Noisy
>>>Hobbyists Hear a Whisper And Improvise a Damper; A Computer Oil Bath
>>>By CHARLES FORELLE
>>>Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
>>>
>>>Carl Bohne has a half-dozen computers in his St. Louis home, in various
>>>stages of disassembly. He's hard at work putting together a shrunk-down
>>>machine the size of a toaster.
>>>
>>>Mr. Bohne isn't trying to soup up computers for added power. He wants
>>>to quiet them down. Bothered by a noisy PC a few years ago, he took it
>>>apart to figure out what was causing the clamor.
>>>
>>>Now, building quiet machines is his chief hobby. His computers are
>>>packed with foam insulation, noise-damping filters and custom-sculpted
>>>hunks of copper that divert heat from the microcircuitry so the
>>>built-in fans won't have to work so hard.
>
>>Sounds like a fun hobby, but those who want a dead quiet
>>machine without going to such trouble should consider
>>Apple's Mac mini. That machine is nearly completely silent,
>
> Easy to do with a Win PC.
>
>>half the size of a typical toaster, and it does not
>>come with all the baggage that Windows PCs have.
>
> Mindless one eyed bigotry.

Like Popeye or Willy the One-Eyed Wonder Worm?
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 12:24:03 PM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Larry Bud wrote:
>>Now, building quiet machines is his chief hobby. His computers are
>>packed with foam insulation, noise-damping filters and custom-sculpted
>>hunks of copper that divert heat from the microcircuitry so the
>>built-in fans won't have to work so hard.
>
>
> What a waste. All one needs to do is 1) get a less noisy fan (mine is
> whisper quiet), and/or 2) just put the thing inside a compartment in
> the desk.

If you have a power-hungry computer (one that is likely to be loud in
the first place), placing it in an enclosure will make it crash in no
time. They need good ventilation.

>
>
>>Tomas Risberg, a Stockholm neurologist, calls computer noise "a freedom
>>issue." Why "should I have to listen to something I don't want to
>>listen to?" demands Dr. Risberg, who helped persuade the Swedish
>>government to adopt computer-noise standards.
>
>
> Yeah, more nanny government at work. Now the price is probably $20
> higher because of all the insulation.

I wouldn't agree with regulating the noise, but I would agree with
requiring manufacturers to include max noise and power requirements in
their advertising.


Noise is part of the reason I've switched over to just using a laptop
(with a docking station)... a laptop with good battery life is likely to
be quiet.
June 3, 2005 3:55:24 PM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 16:20:11 GMT, Marcio Watanabe <Marcio@nospam.com>
wrote:

>"Jonathan Eales" <Jon.Eales@Virgin.net> wrote:
>
>>The DELL Dimension 3000 with 2.66GHz Celeron is really quiet. Just a
>>whisper. I bought a 2.8GHz P4 for a client and it was annoyingly louder. I
>>suppose the moral of this story is pay a little more and get a lot more
>>noise for your money.
>>
>>I sell these systems based on how quiet they are. The customers really
>>appreciate the silence. I just hope that DELL don't run out of the Celeron
>>chips!
>
>It has little to do with being a Celeron or a P4. The Celeron is a P4
>with a smaller cache. The thermal design power for both are similar.
>For the P4 2.8GHz, it's either 68W for the 512Kb model or 89W for the
>1MB cache. For the Celeron 2.66GHz and 2.8GHz, it's either 73W or 84W
>(775), depending on the model.
>
>What happened is that you got one unit that was louder than the others
>due to manufacturing variances. In your case, it happened to be a P4
>that was louder. I bought 10 identical Dell Optiplex P4 2.8GHz for an
>office. They were all reasonably quiet, except for one.

One out of ten was unreasonably loud: 10% quality problem??
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 1:40:27 AM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:47:06 GMT, "Talkin Horse"
<davidrolfeN0SP&AM@earthlink.net> wrote:

>The Dell desktops of recent years have been quite quiet. Before that, I used
>to go to extraordinary efforts to control PC noise pollution, but that
>hasn't been necessary for the current and recent Dells.

Yeah, those Dells are really great quality, what can I tell ya. Dell
was rated l3.83 of 10 in the past 6 months while Monarch Computer was
rated 9.35 of 10 at resellerratings.com.

The reason why the Dells are so QUIET is because they don't have a fan
on the HD and mount the HD often vertically inside a sealed metal cage
which reduces noise. The HD is the most critical part of a
computer--that's where your data is. Everything else is
replaceable--not your data. So Dells often have early drive failures
due to the HD running very hot. So hot sometimes that it will burn
your finger. Usually the HD fails right after the warrantee.

They also skimp on everything--like putting IDE cables with only 1
connector to save a penny, and using 40 conductor vs. 80 on the CD
drives. Often there is no room to mount a second HD either, in case
you need to rescue your failing HD.

They also use the smallest power supplies--JUST enough to power the
computer. Yeah, save every penny.

Dell hasn't changed their case design in years. Why bother, the have a
popular name.

Monarch computer is like the Rolls Royce of computers--they use the
best components and they are based in the U.S. Not like Dell tech
support in India, where they don't even understand what you are saying
to them...


DELL - 3.83 Rating

6.14 Pricing of Products and Services
2.98 Likelihood of Future Purchases
4.70 Shipping and Packaging
1.76 Customer Service
3.41 Return or Replacement


MONARCH COMPUTER - 9.35 Rating
7.98 Pricing of Products and Services
8.40 Likelihood of Future Purchases
8.68 Shipping and Packaging
8.47 Customer Service
7.73 Return or Replacement
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 6:08:28 AM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

"TekWiz" <tekwiz@reply-in-group.com> wrote in message
news:1117935627.31a170e3c43fb67dad756aafc3654b1a@teranews...
> On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:47:06 GMT, "Talkin Horse"
> <davidrolfeN0SP&AM@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>The Dell desktops of recent years have been quite quiet. Before that, I
>>used
>>to go to extraordinary efforts to control PC noise pollution, but that
>>hasn't been necessary for the current and recent Dells.
>
> Yeah, those Dells are really great quality, what can I tell ya. Dell
> was rated l3.83 of 10 in the past 6 months while Monarch Computer was
> rated 9.35 of 10 at resellerratings.com.
>
> The reason why the Dells are so QUIET is because they don't have a fan
> on the HD and mount the HD often vertically inside a sealed metal cage
> which reduces noise. The HD is the most critical part of a
> computer--that's where your data is. Everything else is
> replaceable--not your data. So Dells often have early drive failures
> due to the HD running very hot. So hot sometimes that it will burn
> your finger. Usually the HD fails right after the warrantee.
>
> They also skimp on everything--like putting IDE cables with only 1
> connector to save a penny, and using 40 conductor vs. 80 on the CD
> drives. Often there is no room to mount a second HD either, in case
> you need to rescue your failing HD.
>
> They also use the smallest power supplies--JUST enough to power the
> computer. Yeah, save every penny.
>
> Dell hasn't changed their case design in years. Why bother, the have a
> popular name.
>
> Monarch computer is like the Rolls Royce of computers--they use the
> best components and they are based in the U.S. Not like Dell tech
> support in India, where they don't even understand what you are saying
> to them...
>
>
> DELL - 3.83 Rating
>
> 6.14 Pricing of Products and Services
> 2.98 Likelihood of Future Purchases
> 4.70 Shipping and Packaging
> 1.76 Customer Service
> 3.41 Return or Replacement
>
>
> MONARCH COMPUTER - 9.35 Rating
> 7.98 Pricing of Products and Services
> 8.40 Likelihood of Future Purchases
> 8.68 Shipping and Packaging
> 8.47 Customer Service
> 7.73 Return or Replacement
>




You are aware that virtually every thing you said in this post is wrong?
The drive is vertical only on their very entry level Dimension 2400/3000.
On the 8400, it is horizontal. Virtually no name-brand machine has a hard
drive fan. My Dell's have been running for years without a failure of the
stock hard drive. They all came with 80-wire cables on both the CD drive
and the hard drives with two connectors on each cable. The only exception is
the 2400, which only allows for one hard drive, so what would you do with
the extra connector. But at $349 delivered, I didn't expect a lot.

Oh, and the power supplies are very conservatively rated. Most vendors
advertise peak/burst capacity. Dell advertises sustained -- therefore a
lower number. Who cares if they change the case -- this case works.

Did Dell fire you? Is that your problem? or is it just that you work for
Monarch?

I can't stand liars.

Tom

Tom
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 6:08:29 AM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 02:08:28 GMT, "Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net>
wrote:

>
>"TekWiz" <tekwiz@reply-in-group.com> wrote in message
>news:1117935627.31a170e3c43fb67dad756aafc3654b1a@teranews...
>> On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:47:06 GMT, "Talkin Horse"
>> <davidrolfeN0SP&AM@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>The Dell desktops of recent years have been quite quiet. Before that, I
>>>used
>>>to go to extraordinary efforts to control PC noise pollution, but that
>>>hasn't been necessary for the current and recent Dells.
>>
>> Yeah, those Dells are really great quality, what can I tell ya. Dell
>> was rated l3.83 of 10 in the past 6 months while Monarch Computer was
>> rated 9.35 of 10 at resellerratings.com.
>>
>> The reason why the Dells are so QUIET is because they don't have a fan
>> on the HD and mount the HD often vertically inside a sealed metal cage
>> which reduces noise. The HD is the most critical part of a
>> computer--that's where your data is. Everything else is
>> replaceable--not your data. So Dells often have early drive failures
>> due to the HD running very hot. So hot sometimes that it will burn
>> your finger. Usually the HD fails right after the warrantee.
>>
>> They also skimp on everything--like putting IDE cables with only 1
>> connector to save a penny, and using 40 conductor vs. 80 on the CD
>> drives. Often there is no room to mount a second HD either, in case
>> you need to rescue your failing HD.
>>
>> They also use the smallest power supplies--JUST enough to power the
>> computer. Yeah, save every penny.
>>
>> Dell hasn't changed their case design in years. Why bother, the have a
>> popular name.
>>
>> Monarch computer is like the Rolls Royce of computers--they use the
>> best components and they are based in the U.S. Not like Dell tech
>> support in India, where they don't even understand what you are saying
>> to them...
>>
>>
>> DELL - 3.83 Rating
>>
>> 6.14 Pricing of Products and Services
>> 2.98 Likelihood of Future Purchases
>> 4.70 Shipping and Packaging
>> 1.76 Customer Service
>> 3.41 Return or Replacement
>>
>>
>> MONARCH COMPUTER - 9.35 Rating
>> 7.98 Pricing of Products and Services
>> 8.40 Likelihood of Future Purchases
>> 8.68 Shipping and Packaging
>> 8.47 Customer Service
>> 7.73 Return or Replacement
>>
>
>
>
>
>You are aware that virtually every thing you said in this post is wrong?
>The drive is vertical only on their very entry level Dimension 2400/3000.
>On the 8400, it is horizontal. Virtually no name-brand machine has a hard
>drive fan.

So if it's brand name it means it's good right? People in the field
see a major proportion of HP's, Compaqs, Dells, etc. with burned power
supplies, blown mobos and bad drives. They are cheap machines made as
cheap as possible to maximize profits for the corporate bosses and
stockholders. No $$$ for an extra fan.

>My Dell's have been running for years without a failure of the
>stock hard drive. They all came with 80-wire cables on both the CD drive
>and the hard drives with two connectors on each cable. The only exception is
>the 2400, which only allows for one hard drive, so what would you do with
>the extra connector. But at $349 delivered, I didn't expect a lot.

So you were lucky because your drive was one of the units where all
the components were made to full tolerance. I hope you back up.

Oh, ok, so only on their slightly cheaper units. So it's just morally
fine to sell these "cut edge" :-) PCs to people who think they are
getting the same build quality as the more expensive units because
"hey, it's Dell--DUDE you are getting a DELL", but really getting
junk. Like I said, you would use the extra connector to rescue a drive
or you could just lay one on the bottom as well if you needed it.
Cheapening out on a one connector cable shows the respect for the
customer. 5 cents saved. Great!

Why would they mount the drive vertically anyway? Puts more stress on
the bearings... Also the horizontal one that I saw--they were so hot
they could burn you. Sure they wanna save on a $2 fan. That's a lot
more than 5 cents on the connector.

>Oh, and the power supplies are very conservatively rated. Most vendors
>advertise peak/burst capacity. Dell advertises sustained -- therefore a
>lower number. Who cares if they change the case -- this case works.

Yeah, that's why it's a baby size supply rated at less than 200W. The
vendors I'm talking about are not your $25 china supply--but quality
supplies with ratings of 400W+. This ensures there won't be a failure
during the life of the computer.

Someone I know told me his computer literally exploded (with a loud
blast), smoked and burned. His repairman changed everything except the
power supply. A few weeks later it all blew again. At that time he
replaced the supply.

ALL of the bad PCs I've seen were all brand name PCs.


>Did Dell fire you? Is that your problem? or is it just that you work for
>Monarch?
>
>I can't stand liars.
>
>Tom

Yeah, right, Dell fired me. Hehehe, they would love to have me work
for them.

Yeah, I'm a liar. And all the hundreds of people who voted at
resellerratings are ALL LIARS and were fired from Dell. The 1.76
Customer service and 2.98 likelyhood of future purchase are all lies.
Monarch Computer's high ratings are all lies.

Yeah I work for Monarch. Yeah I wish. They are in Georgia, I'm in NJ.
But I am a happy customer. Their customer service is #1. You don't get
that kinda service from DELL no matter what they claim. You get the
same cheap PC you can get at your local staples from the likes of
Compaq...

Now don't get me wrong--there are a lot of crummy off-brand PCs as
well, so the consumer beware. But when you go to a quality company,
you get a quality computer.

For some people a cheaply made computer is fine--it's not so critical
for them, but some of us like quality, not the DELL name...

Michael Dell ain't no Steve Jobs, that's for sure...

Tek.
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 10:34:14 AM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

TekWiz wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 02:08:28 GMT, "Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net>
> wrote:

<snip>

>>Did Dell fire you? Is that your problem? or is it just that you work for
>>Monarch?
>>
>>I can't stand liars.
>>
>>Tom
>
> Yeah, right, Dell fired me. Hehehe, they would love to have me work
> for them.

I hear they have an opening for a men's room attendant in Billings, MT.
Not a lot of $$$, but think of the prestige!

;) 
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 11:23:42 AM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

"TekWiz" <tekwiz@reply-in-group.com> wrote in message
news:1117935627.31a170e3c43fb67dad756aafc3654b1a@teranews...
--snip--
> Monarch computer is like the Rolls Royce of computers--they use the
> best components and they are based in the U.S. Not like Dell tech
> support in India, where they don't even understand what you are saying
> to them...
--snip--

Dunno about Monarch; never saw one. I'd be curious if they were as wonderful
as you say, but I hesitate to take your post too seriously because your
negative comments about Dell don't ring true. I work with a company that
OEMs Dells into larger systems, and their long-term reliability has been
excellent. I'm not making any claim, positive or negative, about any other
brands, because I haven't worked closely with non-Dells lately. For all I
know, there are a lot of good, quiet brands out there, and I'd be curious to
know about that. And maybe the Dells are cheap junk and we've just been very
lucky, but I think that's unlikely. I can only testify to what I've observed
myself, which is satisfaction with Dells and admiration for their
engineering. Take that for what it's worth, which is one more Internet
comment from someone who may or may not know what he's talking about.
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 11:23:43 AM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 07:23:42 GMT, "Talkin Horse"
<davidrolfeN0SP&AM@earthlink.net> wrote:

>"TekWiz" <tekwiz@reply-in-group.com> wrote in message
>news:1117935627.31a170e3c43fb67dad756aafc3654b1a@teranews...
>--snip--
>> Monarch computer is like the Rolls Royce of computers--they use the
>> best components and they are based in the U.S. Not like Dell tech
>> support in India, where they don't even understand what you are saying
>> to them...
>--snip--
>
>Dunno about Monarch; never saw one. I'd be curious if they were as wonderful
>as you say, but I hesitate to take your post too seriously because your
>negative comments about Dell don't ring true. I work with a company that
>OEMs Dells into larger systems, and their long-term reliability has been
>excellent. I'm not making any claim, positive or negative, about any other
>brands, because I haven't worked closely with non-Dells lately. For all I
>know, there are a lot of good, quiet brands out there, and I'd be curious to
>know about that. And maybe the Dells are cheap junk and we've just been very
>lucky, but I think that's unlikely. I can only testify to what I've observed
>myself, which is satisfaction with Dells and admiration for their
>engineering. Take that for what it's worth, which is one more Internet
>comment from someone who may or may not know what he's talking about.
>

monarchcomputer.com sells parts and assembles in part or in whole.
They use parts available to anyone. Their personalized customer
service is one thing, but the reason their computers are good is
because they use only the best quality components. PC enthusiasts only
like the best quality components. Of course if you are unfamiliar with
the technical aspects of PCs, you won't know the difference. One
indicator is that many of Dell's computers have video integrated into
the motherboard, which is inferior to a high-quality video card. The
boards a "mini-boards" which have limited expandability and memory
capacity. Of course their better, more expensive models are better,
but the cost is high and not as good as buying or building a custom
PC.

Also Dell uses some questionable marketing tactics. They don't usually
say that the shipping is an extra $100 over any advertised
price--that's about $60-$70 higher than expected. If you go to add
some add-on components, like more memory or even just a floppy drive,
which they don't include, they greatly overcharge for it. The starting
price sounds cheap but once you add some things it's not so cheap
anymore.

Many of Dell's parts are custom--if something fails you have to get it
from Dell, and it will be greatly overpriced. Custom-assembled
computer use standard off-the-shelf parts--much more customer
friendly.

The case is custom--not easy to add drives or add fans, etc.

I'm not saying that all Dells are pure junk, but that they aren't as
good as quality, custom-made PCs, and I'm sure that a quality PC has
less chance of failing than a Dell, or any of the mass-produced brands
out there.

From my own pretty limited experience, most of the failures I've seen
were in these brand-name PCs.

But look, I actually had a positive opinion of Dell before I saw one
with hard drives hot as a frying pan, then another one, not even 3
years old with a failing HD, and then another one, also not 3 years
old with a blown HD. I got pretty frustrated with the stupidity of
them not even having 2 connectors on the IDE cable and using a 40
conductor cable on the CD units. I also know of someone who got a
Dell, and the motherboard failed and even the new one was causing
problems as well.

Like I'm saying, with my limited experience almost every brand-name PC
I've seen has had failures and problems which shouldn't have happened.
I can list them one after the other. I would not use a brand-name PC.
I don't trust the power supply, cooling and motherboard. I think they
get the cheapest parts they can to make the most profit.

Then, when I saw the low ratings for Dell on resellerratings.com and
how high they were for monarch--a company that I bought parts from in
the past, I realized that Dell wasn't what Dell themselves were
claiming to be. They are just another company with slick marketing
tactics selling PCs which have a lot of "cost-reducing" measures built
into them. The fact that they don't cool the drives is a strong
indicator to me that they actually want the drives to fail early--why
not? When the drive fails, the chance is good that the customer will
buy a new computer from Dell. Why would they want these computers to
last more than the warantee period?

Why are Dell's consumer ratings so LOW if they are such a great
company? Why are Monarch's ratings so HIGH? Must be that people who
bought Dells were not too satisfied and voiced their opinion, while
those who bought Monarch were so happy they wanted to let others know.
Monarch must be doing something right, and Dell something wrong.

In short, PC enthusiasts stay away from all of these brand-name PCs
because they want a quality-built, highly reliable PC that's worth the
money--not an overpriced "cost-cut/corner-cut" PC from Dell.

Tek.
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 3:31:56 PM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

"Talkin Horse" <davidrolfeN0SP&AM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2Mxoe.2185$W77.2059@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "TekWiz" <tekwiz@reply-in-group.com> wrote in message
> news:1117935627.31a170e3c43fb67dad756aafc3654b1a@teranews...
> --snip--
> > Monarch computer is like the Rolls Royce of computers--they use the
> > best components and they are based in the U.S. Not like Dell tech
> > support in India, where they don't even understand what you are saying
> > to them...
> --snip--
>
> Dunno about Monarch; never saw one. I'd be curious if they were as
wonderful
> as you say, but I hesitate to take your post too seriously because your
> negative comments about Dell don't ring true. I work with a company that
> OEMs Dells into larger systems, and their long-term reliability has been
> excellent. I'm not making any claim, positive or negative, about any other
> brands, because I haven't worked closely with non-Dells lately. For all I
> know, there are a lot of good, quiet brands out there, and I'd be curious
to
> know about that. And maybe the Dells are cheap junk and we've just been
very
> lucky, but I think that's unlikely.
(Snip)
Tek Wiz has apparently never worked with commercial-series Dells. We have a
couple thousand at work, and the failure rate is very low. I was so
impressed that I set all my relatives up with trailing-edge Dell Gx1s,
purchased at auction- way cheaper than rolling my own. No, they aren't hot
rods designed for gamers, but for what most people actually do with a
computer, they are more than adequate, and they are durable. The 6-year old
Gx1 I am typing on runs fine, and has never failed on me (knock on wood).
The phone support for their commercial machines is (again?) US-based, and we
never had any big problems.

Now having said that, the very few consumer-grade Dells I've had to work on
haven't impressed me very much- just another toaster, designed to hit a
price point. No idea what their real-world reliability is. And since I'll
never be rich enough to buy a new-in-box computer, the telephone support is
something I'll never have to deal with on my own. If and when one dies, I'll
grab a spare out of the stack, and keep working, and fix/reload the dead one
at my leisure. I haven't needed hand-holding in years, and since warranty
isn't an issue, no reason to talk to them.

aem sends...
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 4:50:17 PM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 06:34:14 -0400, Sparky Spartacus
<Sparky@universalexports.org> wrote:

>TekWiz wrote:
>> On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 02:08:28 GMT, "Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net>
>> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>>Did Dell fire you? Is that your problem? or is it just that you work for
>>>Monarch?
>>>
>>>I can't stand liars.
>>>
>>>Tom
>>
>> Yeah, right, Dell fired me. Hehehe, they would love to have me work
>> for them.
>
>I hear they have an opening for a men's room attendant in Billings, MT.
>Not a lot of $$$, but think of the prestige!
>
>;)


Yeah, too bad that Dell has sent most of all the formerly U.S.
well-paying jobs over to India, and all they need here is someone to
wipe their corporate dude's butts as they fatten up on high profits
from cheap labor.

Lots of those jobs appear to be coming back though. As expected, not
only do they find that Americans HATE to deal with other countries
when they need tech support, but other countries are getting smarter
and building their own companies, and labor ain't so cheap anymore.

At least now we can know which companies are loyal to the U.S. and
which are not and who not to buy from.
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 12:44:11 PM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

"TekWiz" <tekwiz@reply-in-group.com> wrote in message
news:1117990218.9e892a9ff14905cb20e6d3989319626c@teranews...
> Yeah, too bad that Dell has sent most of all the formerly U.S.
> well-paying jobs over to India, and all they need here is someone to
> wipe their corporate dude's butts as they fatten up on high profits
> from cheap labor.
>
> Lots of those jobs appear to be coming back though. As expected, not
> only do they find that Americans HATE to deal with other countries
> when they need tech support, but other countries are getting smarter
> and building their own companies, and labor ain't so cheap anymore.
>
> At least now we can know which companies are loyal to the U.S. and
> which are not and who not to buy from.

I have mixed feelings about this form of outsourcing. In my heart, it
bothers me to see the jobs go offshore. In my brain, I know it's part of a
natural and inevitable process, and we've got to work with the forces of
nature and create new types of jobs if we want to stay on the cutting edge,
just as so many jobs we have today (including PC tech support) didn't exist
a generation ago. But putting that aside, I assume telephone tech support
isn't likely to be much good, be it domestic or foreign. It's hard to find
good people for those jobs, and remote diagnosing is often a very hard job
to do even if you're good. And it's fairly typical to speak with people
whose native language isn't English, even here at home. On the balance, I
aspire to avoid tech calls until and unless I know exactly what I want them
to do (like issue a repair order), and it doesn't greatly matter where the
call goes.

However, if it makes you feel better, I'll echo your sentiment with respect
to Dell printers, in the way Dell tries to remain the sole source of printer
cartridges. Because of this practice, I avoid buying Dell printers. Better
to stick to printers that can be refilled from the corner store.
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 10:29:37 PM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

TekWiz wrote:
>
> Monarch computer is like the Rolls Royce of computers--they use the
> best components and they are based in the U.S. Not like Dell tech
> support in India, where they don't even understand what you are saying
> to them...
>

Based on your glowing recommendation, I tried to buy a computer today
from Monarch. I sent them an e-mail using their recommended
fill-in-the-blanks form, and got a response to only one of my four
questions--just like what usually happens when I e-mail eBay or Amazon
[Dell OTOH is usually quite complete in their responses to e-mail]. I
sent Monarch another e-mail, but I haven't heard back.

I still don't think I want another Dell, but I doubt I'll be bothering
with Monarch.
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 11:20:27 PM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Hi,

In article <1117935627.31a170e3c43fb67dad756aafc3654b1a@teranews>,
TekWiz <Newsgroup> wrote:
#Yeah, those Dells are really great quality, what can I tell ya. Dell
#was rated l3.83 of 10 in the past 6 months while Monarch Computer was
#rated 9.35 of 10 at resellerratings.com.

Lessee... Dell sells DIRECT. Your web site reference is
resellerratings.com which is for RESELLERS. No bias here, right?

#The reason why the Dells are so QUIET is because they don't have a fan
#on the HD

Uh... no HD fan... so tell me, who does? Besides RAID boxes and high-end
servers, of course.

# and mount the HD often vertically inside a sealed metal cage
#which reduces noise. The HD is the most critical part of a
#computer--that's where your data is. Everything else is
#replaceable--not your data. So Dells often have early drive failures
#due to the HD running very hot. So hot sometimes that it will burn
#your finger. Usually the HD fails right after the warrantee.

<Glancing at 3 Dell machines of various vintages around him, thinking
of several ex-Dell drives in home machines...>

Uh... no. Every Dell I use at work has a horizontally mounted HD, which
has little to nothing to do with drive failure.

#They also skimp on everything--like putting IDE cables with only 1
#connector to save a penny, and using 40 conductor vs. 80 on the CD
#drives. Often there is no room to mount a second HD either, in case
#you need to rescue your failing HD.

Yes, lots of skimping, but bad examples. My MSI, my Asus, and my
Gigabyte MB's all came with 40 pin IDE second cables. All three are
considered top-tier boards and all three from top-tier makers. All of
them I installed top of the line DVD drives that couldn't make use of
the higher speed IDE I/O modes requiring 80 conductor cable, if they
wanted to.

There is lots of complain about pre-configured mass-produced PC's, you
did get the power supply thing right. Too bad about the rest of your
post.

Ken.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mail: kmarsh at charm dot net | Just say "no" to liars SCO and Soyo
WWW: http://www.charm.net/~kmarsh | Return services to local CIS offices!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 11:12:27 PM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:44:11 GMT, "Talkin Horse"
<davidrolfeN0SP&AM@earthlink.net> wrote:

>"TekWiz" <tekwiz@reply-in-group.com> wrote in message
>news:1117990218.9e892a9ff14905cb20e6d3989319626c@teranews...
>> Yeah, too bad that Dell has sent most of all the formerly U.S.
>> well-paying jobs over to India, and all they need here is someone to
>> wipe their corporate dude's butts as they fatten up on high profits
>> from cheap labor.
>>
>> Lots of those jobs appear to be coming back though. As expected, not
>> only do they find that Americans HATE to deal with other countries
>> when they need tech support, but other countries are getting smarter
>> and building their own companies, and labor ain't so cheap anymore.
>>
>> At least now we can know which companies are loyal to the U.S. and
>> which are not and who not to buy from.
>
>I have mixed feelings about this form of outsourcing. In my heart, it
>bothers me to see the jobs go offshore. In my brain, I know it's part of a
>natural and inevitable process, and we've got to work with the forces of
>nature and create new types of jobs if we want to stay on the cutting edge,
>just as so many jobs we have today (including PC tech support) didn't exist
>a generation ago. But putting that aside, I assume telephone tech support
>isn't likely to be much good, be it domestic or foreign. It's hard to find
>good people for those jobs, and remote diagnosing is often a very hard job
>to do even if you're good. And it's fairly typical to speak with people
>whose native language isn't English, even here at home. On the balance, I
>aspire to avoid tech calls until and unless I know exactly what I want them
>to do (like issue a repair order), and it doesn't greatly matter where the
>call goes.
>
>However, if it makes you feel better, I'll echo your sentiment with respect
>to Dell printers, in the way Dell tries to remain the sole source of printer
>cartridges. Because of this practice, I avoid buying Dell printers. Better
>to stick to printers that can be refilled from the corner store.
>


Well, according to other posters, Dell hardware is no better or worse
than anyone elses, so why buy Dell anyway if the support is so bad?
Here's a post from another thread... They are sorry they got a Dell
due to the bad tech support from india....


From: <hacbac@bellsouth.net>
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.frugal-living,misc.consumers

Subject: Re: Indian call staff quit over abuse on the line

Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:55:11 -0400

I'm so sorry we bought a Dell because of this. I gave up calling the
tech support, even though I paid extra for it. The so-called techs
always give non-India names also, as if we couldn't tell. American
business people don't want to pay 7.00 an hour for American call
center employees. It's really pathetic.

Barb
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:46:00 AM

Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

> So if it's brand name it means it's good right? People in the field
> see a major proportion of HP's, Compaqs, Dells, etc. with burned power
> supplies, blown mobos and bad drives. They are cheap machines made as

They see more of these machines needing repair, because there are so many
more of them sold.

My new 8400 is dead silent. Has two connectors on the ribbon cable, extra
drive rails and (at least to my touch) the hard drive is not exceptionally
hot. (It's been my expireence that hard drives fail more often from voltage
spikes on the line rather than heat.)

Dell makes an outstanding computer "for the price".
HP is & Compaq (owned both) are junk Don't know anything about a Monarch,
probably just over-priced junk like a Orick Vacuum Cleaner.

Personally I don't want a Rolls-Royce of computers; I want something that
will do the job as inexpensively as possible for about five years so I can
upgrade and not feel bad about how much I spent. Dell fits the bill nicely
in that respect.

"Rolls-Royce of computers" man did they see you coming....
July 3, 2009 8:32:26 AM

Quote:
Archived from groups: misc.consumers,misc.consumers.frugal-living,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

In article <1117716291.805790.190940@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote:

> June 2, 2005
> Sounds of Silencers Are Loud and Clear: PCs Are Too Noisy
> Hobbyists Hear a Whisper And Improvise a Damper; A Computer Oil Bath
> By CHARLES FORELLE
> Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
>
> Carl Bohne has a half-dozen computers in his St. Louis home, in various
> stages of disassembly. He's hard at work putting together a shrunk-down
> machine the size of a toaster.
>
> Mr. Bohne isn't trying to soup up computers for added power. He wants
> to quiet them down. Bothered by a noisy PC a few years ago, he took it
> apart to figure out what was causing the clamor.
>
> Now, building quiet machines is his chief hobby. His computers are
> packed with foam insulation, noise-damping filters and custom-sculpted
> hunks of copper that divert heat from the microcircuitry so the
> built-in fans won't have to work so hard.

Sounds like a fun hobby, but those who want a dead quiet machine without
going to such trouble should consider Apple's Mac mini. That machine is
nearly completely silent, half the size of a typical toaster, and it
does not come with all the baggage that Windows PCs have. See
http://www.apple.com for information on the Mac mini.


What a dumbass response from a typical Mac user, let me guess, your computer knowledge stops at the power button. You have obviously missed the point of this thread. I have a Mac-Mini at work because I have to test my web software on it. And I can say without a doubt that it is a total POS!!! Yeah it's quiet, but not silent by any means. It's also extremely slow and can't run any of the software that gives Macs a snowball's chance in hell of being better than PC (ie Photoshop, ProTools, etc). Even just browsing the web is slowing and extremely bothersome.
July 7, 2009 7:37:55 PM

im going the complete opposite, ive had watercooling for 4 years....my new comp build is gunna sound like an f-18
July 8, 2009 2:44:21 AM

You can see my specs below. I've got 2 10k RPM drives, aftermarket cooler, 4 case fans....etc.....My system would embarrass any Mac and is whisper quiet.
!