RedHat is out, SuSe is out, where are we going?

I'm a bit unhappy about RedHat dropping the desktop version, but Fedora will be OK. Hopefully my App Server supplier will officially support something else - their target was RedHat 9, so I might have to talk them into Debian Stable or something...

No mention in that article about SuSE dropping the desktop version, but I guess time will tell. IMHO, SuSE is the best boxed distro of Linux, and it would be a shame to see it go down the tubes. I suspect Novell has bought them out because they like what they have to offer - I just hope they don't screw it up by changing their direction too much.

<i>Knock Knock, Neo</i>

We're just seeing the evolution of linux some more. A few distros will branch off into the server specialty, and I figure each distro will specialize in something. Redhat has servers, mandrake could front the intro to linux movement, gentoo has the "uber nerd" distro...

Some day I'll be rich and famous for inventing a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.

Linux is ok but there are too many cooks in the kitchen. In some ways you get alot of ideas but often times there are too many to create a good balanced meal.

Linux's main problem is with the desktop. I can explain this a bit more. Linux failes the user after the OS has been installed. With the likes of RH there was a good chance that the OS installer would see your hardware and install the drivers. Maybe these weren't the best written or the most complete nor were they optimized but they were there. Kudo's to them for that.

But the real problem is after the install. Once the OS is on the computer and running the OS fails miserably to meet expectations, at least when measured against Windows 3.1 through XP, by most computer users for end-user applications.

Yeah, I know I sound harsh by comparing it to a product that is so long gone. I would even say that DOS programs are more advanced in this one area and that Linux seems to still be stlithering in the mud with no attempt to move out and evolve.

So, what is it that is killing Linux and keeping it down like the first vestages of life crawling out?

The answer is the installation routines for software. I mean the installers for applications. RPM is NOT it. No character based INSTALL app is acceptable in today's world of GUIs.

See, if I have to seek out dependent libraries that are not included in the install, or I have to struggle with installs that dump me out without any notice, or I have to deal with changing an app as executable via the terminal window or I have to run the installer from the terminal window Linux suffers, because I suffer.

The answer is a cross-distro GUI based installer that installs any program (and/or driver) using a few clicks of a mouse that any end-user can follow.

That's it. This one thing WILL change Linux and it will boom onto desktops. I AM TELLING YOU THIS BECAUSE IT IS THE CAUSE OF LINUX'S CURRENT WOES.

I've been in the computer industry for nearly 20 years. I've not specialized in any area and am considered a jack of all trades and am very good at most computer aspects (hardware, software, programming, networking). I'm not trying to toot my horn. I'm just saying that if I have problems getting a simple movie viewer installed, or a change to the destop application installed, or a simple video chat program installed then something is wrong.

I currently have to fight every install. I have to fight this "self-defeating" attitude promogulated by the Linux developer community that I should compile a program (or that users should have a compiler on thier computer so they can compile) it to get it to install.

Totally wrong way of thinking and the nerds that thought it up should all be taken out and publicly flogged.

Linus T. should put down an edict that such an installer must be implemented IMMEDIATELY--heh 10 years of linux development and we don't have this yet. He should dictate it and it should be one of the very few things he ever dictates to the Linux community. The reason is, it must happen and it must happen NOW or the new OSes will smother linux, even off the enterprise market.

Nah...It's easier to install now than ever before...with the next few releases...it will be right along side with windows and plug n play. Try Yellow Dog out if you disbelieve...then give Gentoo a try.

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<b>It is always brave to say what everyone thinks. </b> <i>Georges Duhamel</i>

TKS

i certainly hope it does get better, i really am looking forward to it, and i keep my eye out for it.

but personally i wish that all linux efforts were put into a single stream of programing and could all help the common good.

i use blender which i saw become opensource after being bought by the public form investors.

since then i have seen a few concerning issues which reflect those of linux too.

there are more than one version and each doesn't necisarily comply with the other so a file saved in one may not work in another.

different features are on different versions so you need to switch between each to get all the advantages, or you need to stick to the one that gives you the most advantages and jsut put up with a few things that arn't the best.

the good thing i have seen is the community that has formed, as well as the amount of ferature advances that have come about, its really boomed since becoming Open Source.

but i do fear for its future if it fractures more and more then starts compeating amongst itself.

linux distros are compeating between each other, when really they could take out microsoft if they tried together.

but choosing a distro is hard enough.

i relaly love the fact that yellow dog and gentoo may be easy to install on. but i am disapointed at the same time becasue i want to stick to a single tree, my choice is mandrake and i will stick to it untill its shortcomings become more disadventagous than the competition advantages me.

Alltaken

<A HREF="http://www.mud-puddle.co.nz" target="_new">http://www.mud-puddle.co.nz</A> its where its all going on

thanks holygrenade.

yes i agree linux is way better than windows 3.1 LOL damn man i remember that old hunk a junk LOL.

i got the error openGL could not be found, this is when i try to open blender which is an open GL aplication, it also happened when i was trying to compile a version of blender.

after that happened i got an error saying openAl could not be found.

ha ha ha i also have never found a button anywhere or any obvious options in the ALSA -h thing that would point to how to turn on AC3 or surround sound suport on my built in 6 channel chip on the mobo. its just not the same through 2 speakers when there are 4 more available LOL.

i have changed the XF86config-4 file (i belive its that name but you will know what i am talking about. i have also set Xfree version 4 as the default x-server. i have not set the same options in the XF86config file which i think is possibly the next logical step.

i don't know if i ahve messed up my mandrake install much by mucking around with MESSA drivers and Nvidia drivers, other than that i have no other things that are installed on linux that i need so a fresh install wouldn't bother me, even another distro wouldn't bother me.


i use KDE as my GUI, but recently i have been resorting to having no GUI at all HA HA HA.

my system is dual boot WinXP/Linux mandrake 9.1
i have 6 partitions
Windows C: 7Gb NTFS
linux x3 i dunno what they are classified as 7Gb combined
documents shared by both linux and windows FAT32 =32 Gb
multimedia files that only need to be read by linux and not written to NTFS 64 Gb aproxx

my hardware if it is important is
2.4Ghz P4 533Mhz FSB
Gigabyte "GA-8PE667 Ultra 2" mobo
onboard
-SATA
-RAID
-gigabit ethernet
-6 channel sound (intel i180 or somthing i think it's what linux says, not exactly sure though maybe it was i810, that sounds more right)
2x 512Mb DDR333
Nvidia geforce 4 Ti4200 (leadtek MyVivo 128Mb )


thats all the important stuff i belive.

also whenever i boot into lnux it says the initialising ETH-0 fails (the lan connection i belive), however when in linux my network works fine, i have not tried it since getting a broad band connection, but it could see the internet fine as well.


anyway any help on this one is appreciated becasue i have vowed that if i were to get 6 channel audio, and my other applications running on linux that i would not look back to windows.

basicly i'm keen to get into the linux world but have been a bit frustrated LOL.

oh PM me if you want, or i could start another thread somewhere

Alltaken

<A HREF="http://www.mud-puddle.co.nz" target="_new">http://www.mud-puddle.co.nz</A> its where its all going on

with the mesa stuff, yes it did come with the install but i did it again when compiles failed to find openGL.

also the compiles and programs failed to locate openGL "after" the latest Nvidia driver install.

its all just really anoying so far LOL


i might try a download of suse if it has an automatic update, because for me i think that would be the easiest way to do it.

thanks though.


Alltaken


<A HREF="http://www.mud-puddle.co.nz" target="_new">http://www.mud-puddle.co.nz</A> its where its all going on

I just read this Jimbo guys post. What is he doing in the Linux forum? Anyone who thinks Linux compares unfavorably to Dos/Win 3.1 ought to go try doing modern work on a Dos/3.1 machine.

I'm sorry to feed the troll, but I can't keep quiet when someone fuds like that. As for software installation, yes, linux isn't as easy as Windows. HELLO. LINUX IS NOT AS EASY AS WINDOWS. If ease of use is your measure of a good computer, what are you doing on windows? You should be on a MAC with the other people who have the mantra "Ease of use".

Sticks aren't as easy to drive as automatics, but when you get the hang of it, they offer better performance and better gas mileage. Same with Linux. It may have a higher learning curve, but once you've passed that curve, you'll enjoy your computer in ways Windows can't even match.

I will say this, I make the bulk of my money not from my Linux customers, not from my Mac customers, but from Windows customers. There are so many easy ways to break windows, that I've been able to buy myself a good sized house, provide my family a comfortable lifestyle, and I'm getting ready to pick up some vacation property too.

You like windows? Good for you. I LOVE windows, just not as my personal OS. I love the instability, the way you can easily fudge it up, because I'm not ashamed to admit it, those things have paid my bills and then some. Thank you Microsoft, please, don't ever change! I'd have to close up shop and work for someone else again.

As for the Suse and Redhat thing, I've got some serious illwill towards RedHat now. The Linux portion of my business was built on providing store bought redhat solutions for my customers, and tweaking them for IT purposes. I now can no longer provide that without charging my customers substantially larger sums of money. I know about Fidora, but try explaining that to people who hire me because they know nothing about IT, beyond how to check email and do stuff in Office. To them, fidora is not RedHat, and RedHat knows this. It's probably good business for RedHat in the shortterm, but it's a slap in the face to those of us who supported them in the early years and evangelized their distro. I'm an RHCE, and I WILL NOT be renewing it, nor will I be advocating RedHat anymore. Much of their success was because of people like me, who companies hire and trust for OS recommendations. They've now crapped on people like me as far as I'm concerned.

Suse, I think will be okay. I haven't been a fan of Novell since Netware, shoot, I don't even remember the version now, but it was back in the days of NT 3.51(another fine Microsoft POS). However, Suse's been picking up steam and has a world class desktop distro now. I've recently made the switch, and wish I had done so sooner. I don't think Novell invested so much into Suse just to run it into the ground. I'm hoping they'll do their part to enhance, but to leave the Suse guys free to continue towards their goals.

But even if both of these distros get run into the ground, it won't take long for other groups to fill in the gap. The fact that not everyone is working on the same thing, which although being cited as a weakness of Linux, is it's primary strength. These corps could buy up all the major distro's and start charging up the yin yang for them or mess them up in some way, and we Linux users will simply turn to another distro and start our own. Counting Suse, I've made no less than 5 distro switches since getting into Linux with a Slackware version, which I downloaded disk by disk at 9600 baud over the course of 2 weeks.

I've got no worries about desktop Linux. It's only getting better and better, and in fact, as far as I know, Linux is the only way to obtain a 64bit PC desktop OS right now, not counting betas(though Macs have 64bit procs, the OS is still at it's core, 32bit). These are good days for Linux, very good days.

yer i810 is a pos which was outdated loooooooooooong time ago as a no go for any thing as far as graffic computing goes on any os.

..this is very useful and helpful place for information...

Alltaken,

I just verified a few things. One, the i810 is a video/audio chipset combo. It's also, as blah put it, an outdated POS when it comes to doing anything with graphics.

Luckily, however, I checked gigabytes site and if the model motherboard you listed in a previous post is correct, your sound chipset is a Realtek ALC650E. So this may be one problem, that somehow your distro thinks it has something it doesn't have. If this is what is happening, this is good news. We can get around this and it may already have been encountered and fixed. I'll check into this.

We should continue this troubleshooting via private message and WHEN(not if) we get it working, we can post the results here in case anyone is interested.