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Dirty nVIDIA tatics!!!

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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September 9, 2001 2:26:32 AM

The following is taken from an article on Anandtech's site:

It seems that ATI has approached more than a few video card manufactures, offering to sell both Radeon 7500 and Radeon 8500 chips to them and promising market success. At the same time, NVIDIA has been pressuring card makers to reject ATI as a solution. The unspoken threat that NVIDIA is coming to manufacturers with is that if a company produces ATI cards then not only will relations be hurt but NVIDIA chips will be harder for them to get.

Naturally, this places quite an amount of pressure on card makers. Many video card manufacturers that we have spoken to have expressed interest in ATI products but have decided not to produce them as of yet simply because of NVIDIA's pressure. In fact, many of the companies that we have spoken to have said that they are not currently working on Radeon based cards but have not eliminated them as a solution quite yet. Many of the popular video card manufacturers would not be around today if it were not for the success of NVIDIA's chips, placing an even greater pressure on the manufacturers to stick with NVIDIA.

If nVIDIA has such a superior product how come it needs to pressure (almost threaten) CARD MANUFACTURERS.I used to admire nVIDIA marketing abilities not anymore play fair nVIDIA and stop acting like Intel when AMD started producing highly competitive products.

More about : dirty nvidia tatics

September 9, 2001 2:31:31 AM

nvidia is evil. I think Creative Labs might be the first to go ATI. DFI is going radeon (currently only makes ATi cards).

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
September 9, 2001 4:35:04 AM

Where is this article located? Could you provide a link?

"Laziness is a talent to be cultivated like any other" - Walter Slovotsky
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September 9, 2001 6:04:07 AM

nope nvidia is evil if we dont remember the nvidia PDF about the Kryo II. Well Wusy, Nvidia is just evil. ATi isnt that evil $300 (at release) for the Radeon 8500 equal the speed of the GF3(released around $450-$500). People say ATI is the AMD of the Graphics market.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
September 9, 2001 6:44:37 AM

I wonder if ATI (or AMD for that matter) would do exactly the same thing as NVidia if positions were reversed?
I'll bet they would.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
September 9, 2001 6:54:20 AM

I guess you've got a point, but take a moment to consider the fact that nVidia is in the business of making money. They're not out to make friends, their only goal is to produce a product and to make money with it. What do you expect? Do you expect for them to encourage their competitors to supercede them? Nah ;)  I don't know of any businesses like that.

Sample...
a b U Graphics card
September 9, 2001 7:50:33 AM

ATi is more like Intel than AMD. They've been around longer than nVidia and use features rather than power to draw their customers. Like Intel. Too bad for Intel that <i>their</i> features are not worth much! ATI is the establishment, nVidia is the challenger. nVidia simply got something that AMD didn't; a sales lead in the desktop business. So I guess that makes them evil. Or maybe it's the fact that they engage in anti-competitive practices. Like Creative.

Back to you Tom...
September 9, 2001 1:37:48 PM

I think most of us don't like the idea of a company threatening another company, pushing them around limiting our future choices in a product. I have never heard ATI doing that, maybe because ATI didn't sell massive amount of chipsets. Hopefully ATI refrains from such tatics based on superior technology and price vice just using brute force threats to sell chipsets.
September 9, 2001 1:47:41 PM

Sure nVidia makes good products, but I wonder if they'll release a product to compete with the AIW Radeon 8500DV! It's the ultimate graphics card! Everything you could ever want in a graphics card! Digital and analog video editing are possible and well as DVD decoding, high performance 3D, ultra high quality 2D, TV tuning, etc, all possible from a single card.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
September 9, 2001 1:47:59 PM

Quote:
If nVIDIA has such a superior product how come it needs to pressure (almost threaten) CARD MANUFACTURERS.I used to admire nVIDIA marketing abilities not anymore play fair nVIDIA and stop acting like Intel when AMD started producing highly competitive products.


so its bad for nvidia to do that rcf, but its ok for intel to do the same thing to amd??

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
September 9, 2001 1:57:16 PM

The GeForce 3 Advanced was supposed to take on the multimedia role with digital connectivity + the Personal Cinema for TV I/O with a tuner and other analogue connectivity.


<font color=red><i>Tomorrow I will live, the fool does say
today itself's too late; the wise lived yesterday
September 9, 2001 3:25:16 PM

LOL Matisaro.. I was getting ready to reply the exact same thing, but you beat me to it :D 

"Laziness is a talent to be cultivated like any other" - Walter Slovotsky
September 10, 2001 2:47:29 PM

Obviously it doesn't make it OK if Intel does similar things or Via. In any case, we as buyers are affected in our choices. If the product can't stand on its own merrits then it is time to advance the product with an update or end the product, not threaten, restrict access to other products which you are selling in order to strong arm a company to buy from you. Obviously if Nvidia is using such tatics means they think its products are not sufficiently competitive, thus the strong arm tactics. I can see why Nvidia is a littel nervous about ATI, for one they still can't compete with ATI with Vido/DVD, features, mobile solutions, Retail market, image quality, 2d etc.. Plus ATI is now in professional graphics with a much better lineup then what Nvidia has. The Gamecube coming out which looks to be much more promissing then the X-Box meaning ATI will probably make more or sell more graphic chips for the console market then Nvidia. Plus the recent decision from ATI to sell their chipsets to OEM's and System intergrators. Not to mention ATI's soon to be annoiced integrated chipset for a higher selling Intel plateform. Seems like ATI has many more ace's in the deck then Nvidia. Hopefully people will look further then just one aspect of a video card and support the company that is doing the best to support them.
September 10, 2001 3:39:39 PM

Would you please grow up! For those of you trying to put a halo on ATI's head let me clue you in on something. There is no such thing as a moralistic company. Anybody who thinks so has never been in management or a position of authority. I'm not condoning nvidia's actions but if you think ATI doesn't use underhanded measures at times you are either extremely ignorant or hopelessly naive. Or maybe you just have double standards like some other posters around here

--Wassamatta you?--
September 10, 2001 3:41:03 PM

Ati will stop developing new firegl chips and instead will start making professional cards based on their radeon Rxx chips, just like nvidia with their GeForce->Quadro.

Outside japan, XBox is likely to sell more than the GameCube. Also, Microsofts new Homestation is almost entirely based on nVidia tech. ATI have now equivalent hardware.

Ati will only be making a northbridge chip, coupled with a different manufacturers southbridge chip. **scary**

My guess, well, most others' guess aswell: Once via/intel fight is over and Via are allowed to make P4 chipsets free of charge, nVidia will jump in the bandwagon with their nForce for P4.

<font color=red><i>Tomorrow I will live, the fool does say
today itself's too late; the wise lived yesterday
September 11, 2001 12:21:52 AM

Quote:
Ati will only be making a northbridge chip, coupled with a different manufacturers southbridge chip. **scary**

Scary? why? To me it sounds smart and probably much cheaper to produce. Is it going to be a high performing Nforce killer, I doubt it very much. Still if it is cheap enough it may outsell the Nforce chipset many times over, that is if it works right. ATI's last chipset or more exactly Northbridge seemed to have bombed, lets hope ATI can do better this time around.

As for Nforce with the P4, I sure hope so. Now why did Intel turn down Nvidia??? and sueing VIA? Man talking about some mixed up management decissions, at least from appearances.

Still some of ATI's ace's should pan out. I still believe the GameCube will cremate the X-Box world wide. Time will tell.
September 11, 2001 1:45:15 AM

Well intel has thats lovely cross lincensing agreement with ATi. and Nvidia has SNAP with AMD. ATi supports Intel 3GIO standard where Nvidia supports Hypertransport. Seems intel isnt with good words with nvidia.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
September 11, 2001 9:36:18 AM

It is scary because ATI don't have the best driver developers out there and crossing this with external chipset manufacturers looks bad because, most of the other chipset manufacturers haven't built the most reliable driverset either.

nVidia hasn't yet applied for a p4 license. I don't think they want to. I think their plan is once via wins the lawsuite, they get to make nForce based P4 platforms without the the need to pay any license fee. But intels manegement is totally screwed up.

Nay... XBox will do pretty well. And the Homestation will do OK as well, because it will play all your pc games aswell + broadband com stuff and act as a home datahub.

<font color=red><i>Poor is the pupil, who does not surpass his mentor</i> - Leonardo daVinci</font color=red>
September 11, 2001 2:07:23 PM

Yah, I think the X-box will do just fine. With all the money behind it, there's really no possible way it could fail, whether we like it or not.

"Laziness is a talent to be cultivated like any other" - Walter Slovotsky
September 11, 2001 3:42:11 PM

Gamecube rules !!! Starwar RS2 for it is the sweetest thing i seen this year. Sorry im getting the Cube over the Box besides im my PC is good for single players or online stuff. Cube is for the single player or 4player at house match :*)

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
September 11, 2001 5:20:34 PM

<< I guess you've got a point, but take a moment to consider the fact that nVidia is in the business of making money. They're not out to make friends, their only goal is to produce a product and to make money with it. What do you expect? Do you expect for them to encourage their competitors to supercede them? Nah ;)  I don't know of any businesses like that. >>

I hear a lot of people saying stuff like this and to me it doesn't make sense. Yes Nvidia is a business and they want to make a profit, but what does that have to do with us as consumers?, why the hell should we care what they want, they don't care what we want do they. Everyone here is a graphics card consumer and what happens in this market directly effects us so why shouldn't we be outraged when Nvidia pulls this sort of [-peep-].

There limiting what we can and can't buy. Just look at Kyro II for instance. Only now are a few cheaper manufacturers releasing Kyro II in the U.S, up until now there was only the Herc Kyro II to choose if you wanted a Kyro II. Now as soon as these other companies come in suddenly 64mb Kyro II's are available for $74 (the cheapest Herc Kyro II is $90). We could have had that price difference from the start if it wasn't for Nvidia. If Nvidia hadn't made all these threats then Kyro II would have loads of different cards in the U.S. Now firstly that means more competition for Herc which means lower Kyro II prices all round. Secondly it means no name manufacturers selling Kyro II which means even cheaper prices all round. Thirdly it means that the likelyhood of a 32mb Kyro II being available in the U.S would go up (surely out of say 10 manufacturers some would release 32mb boards). A 32mb Kyro II could sell for $65 or less in the U.S considering the 64mb versions are $74 now. So effectively Nvidia has forced everyone buying a Kyro II in the U.S to buy a 64mb board for $74. If it wasn't for them then people would have the choice of going with a cheaper $60-$65 32mb Kyro II. Why shouldn't we be pissed at Nvidia when there taking our choices away??

If Nvidia did as they should be doing and simply producing products that they feel are supperior to Kyro II, Kyro III, Radeon 7500, Radeon 8500 etc then they could win the graphics card war and consumers would have the choices they deserve. Instead they want to win buy saying "Hmm, our MX really isn't matching the Kyro II and its about the same price to produce, should we bring out something thats better then the Kyro II and is just as cheap to produce to give people another choice?, nah lets just take away consumers choice and force consumers to buy our card instead by making sure these chips never see the light of day, or if they do then lets limit there availability as much as possible to keep prices for these chips as high as possible". And we should just say "oh well, they might be ripping us off by limiting our choices, but they are a company and want to make cash as any cost so they should be using those dirty tactics then" yeah right.

nexus_alpha, I'm not suprised at this at all considering Nvidia did exactly the same thing to Kyro II. They even went a step further then just threatening people not to produce the Kyro II with that redicules PDF file.
September 12, 2001 1:19:00 AM

SerArthurDayne,
Remember CD-I by Phillips? Late 80's.
Marketing budget - over 1 billion dollars (repeat over 1 billion dollars!).
It did establish Mpeg 1 and CD-I movies if you remember, which wasn't really that popular.
Results - Utter failure, one of the biggest losses of all times in the computer market.
Money does not guarentee success, is the lesson learn here.

Xbox may follow the same pattern. Microsoft better have absolute knock out titles for it beyound anything seen before. If not why in the world would anyone buy it?
!