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Radeon 8500 beats the GF3 Ti500 in 3dmark2k1

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October 6, 2001 5:00:49 PM

<A HREF="http://www.chip.de/news_stories/news_stories_8595824.ht..." target="_new">http://www.chip.de/news_stories/news_stories_8595824.ht...;/A>

Well it seem the Radeon 8500 is the 3dmark 2k1 champ. Also the other benches show its can keep up to the GF3 Ti500. I told you all the Radeon 8500 is a fast card.

Better yet it has Smoothvision, Truform and a load of DirectX 8.1 features that aren't on the GF3 Ti500. Also the Radeon 8500 Image is top notch. I was right from the beginning. I was only telling the truth whiched you bashed me for.

---------------------
3DMark 2001
Auflösung, Farbtiefe: 640 x 480, 16 Bit:
Radeon 8500: 8573 3DMarks
GeForce3 Ti/500: 7578 3DMarks
GeForce3: 7200 3DMarks
Radeon 7500: 4693 3DMarks

Auflösung, Farbtiefe: 1.024 x 768, 32 Bit
Radeon 8500: 7426 3DMarks
GeForce3 Ti/500: 6820 3DMarks
GeForce3: 6391 3DMarks
Radeon 7500: 4141 3DMarks

Auflösung, Farbtiefe: 1.600 x 1.200, 32 Bit
Radeon 8500: 5146 3DMarks
GeForce3 Ti/500: 4905 3DMarks
GeForce3: 4332 3DMarks
Radeon 7500: 2937 3DMarks
-------------------------------

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
October 7, 2001 3:47:48 AM

hmmm... Well ????

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
October 7, 2001 3:58:12 AM

im gonna wait for one more bench then im gonna buy it because its about $250 thats almost $150 bucks cheaper then the ti500 and original geforce 3
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October 7, 2001 4:03:13 AM

Sorry RCF, that doesn't prove to me it's better. Need more benches, and quite frankly, I don't care about 3D Mark score, as that isn't realy life. Plus, my GF3 is turned into Quadro DCC, and with Elsa Maxtreme, radeon 8500 won't be able to outperform it.

U got a problem?! Then dial 1800-328-7448!
October 7, 2001 4:05:41 AM

Is that the release version? Does this mean that ATI have finished on their drivers?

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
October 7, 2001 4:08:54 AM

Well alot of German sites are going to start soon. I dont know about THG or Anand's reviews there is always something. I look at smaller sites too. Well Tomshardware.de Radeon 7500 benches look alot different to Rivastation.com Benches. Well Chips.de is a big German hardware site where i got it from. Clearly shows both chips in a free for all.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
October 7, 2001 4:10:25 AM

yeah, i think there getting drivers a small tweak or there still making them. Seems @ $300 for newly released card compared to the GF3 Ti500 could get pretty deaming.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
October 7, 2001 4:14:23 AM

You never know if the Radeon 8500 can turn into the FireGL 8800. You gotta think about HyperZ II, its 8.8gb's without it enabled. Also Overclocking 3.6ns Ram to 300(600) DDR could be a factor too.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
October 7, 2001 4:14:32 AM

i dont really know that much about really life benchs but i do know i play Max payne and one of the benchs is that engine and 3dmark2k1 are real benchs(thats why they ussually come out with one every year to keep up). well i agree with u im gonna wait for a couple more benchs, but its starting to look like the cpu wars (is $200 extra worth 5-10 frames better). things are gonna get very interesting though. i sure hope ati woops the crap out of nvidia i want some damn price wars.
October 7, 2001 4:16:54 AM

Well i hope see some imported Gigabyte 7500 cards soon. Well when ATi wins some OEM's over its low low low pricing. Well if ATi wins more market lower it is for us. Well at $300 is a F'n steal.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
October 7, 2001 4:57:32 AM

Hey, 7426 3Dmarks!!! That's with an Athlon 1.2 and the 8500 is stock clocked!!!!!!

<b>101 FPS</b> in Quake III Arena, Demo001 <b>at 1600x1200x32-bits</b>!

<b>I WANT ONE!!!!!</b>

Would you like a Quarter Pounder?
No, thank you. Just give me the BIG heatsink. It's an Athlon.
October 7, 2001 8:13:29 AM

Nice link, now we have one set which show the radeon losing, and one which show the radeon winning, we need more.

RCF, this is to you.

I did not bash you, I merely posted benchmark links, I made no comment. If you have a problem with me private message me and we will work it out.

I am planning on buying a radeon8500 myself! Giving my gf3 to my wife. Why do you take my benchmark postings so personal, and invade the cpu forum and call me a zealot and attack me?

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
October 7, 2001 8:16:21 AM

By the way, those benchmarks show the radeon losing EVERY ONE, except 3dmark2001, it takes a tad more than one benchmark to call a card superior. However, the price is deffinatly in ati's corner, lets see what happens when the 8500 is released.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
a b U Graphics card
October 7, 2001 8:18:19 AM

Yes, it looks like the Radeon 8500 <b>ASSRAPES</b> the GeForce 3 and the TI500 in 3DMark 2001, and falls between the GF3 and TI500 in older benchmarks (those that don't use DX8 features). Very nice. I bet it wins a buch more DX8 enabled benchmarks. 3DMark 2001 is a good indication of DX8 performance.

Back to you Tom...
October 7, 2001 8:20:05 AM

I would hardly call those results assraping crash, but the radeon looks like a very nice card.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
a b U Graphics card
October 7, 2001 8:27:16 AM

The GeForce 3 is cobbled together and unrefined like a $2000 hotrod. And like the $2000 hot rod, it wins a lot of races, but it don't look pretty doing it! But here's the fun part-this is the FIRST version of this card. nVidia is already on their SECOND version. Now nVidia has to rush something out to counter the attack. And then ATI will release THEIR second version. Heck, by the time I upgrade my computer, these things will be powerfull enough to animate and entire "toy story" like film in real time!

Back to you Tom...
October 7, 2001 8:28:16 AM

Ahhh the nature of this industry, I love it.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
October 7, 2001 8:59:15 AM

you call that proof?

if in doubt blame microsoft...
October 7, 2001 1:37:46 PM

I just thought of another thing about rcf's post and my post(both with benchmarks). The title of my post says merely, radeon 8500 vs gf3 ti 500 benchmarks, and yet he calls me a zealot when his very own post title screams prejudgement.(even when his own link has some 7 benchmarks with 6 losses to radeon8500.)

Rcf has posted in other threads attacking me for my "zealotry" I was highly offended by his attack on me in an unrelated cpu thread, and I demand an applolgy from him. I have never attacked him and have always let it be known I respect his oppinions. Apparently because I post links to benchmarks and ask him for his comments specifically(because he is the biggest ati fan on the boards) I am a zealot. I find the truth and I think many agree, to be that his rabid defence of ati clearly marks him as the zealot.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
October 7, 2001 1:41:53 PM

agreed

if in doubt blame microsoft...
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
October 7, 2001 2:42:40 PM

Ok, at the risk of utter political incorrectness:

(please understand this post is not directed at </b>ANY</b> individual......)

Do you guyz sell these things and need the commission to feed your kids? Are you at risk of loosing a highly paid position in sales & marketing?

************* <b>OR</b> *****************


Are your egos so totally out of control and your insecurities so deep that posts like this are necessary to let you feel good about where you have placed your hard earned $$

<b>FOR GOD'S SAKE, DAZZLE US WITH BRILLIANCE, CAUZ THE BULLPOOPIE ISN'T BAFFLING ANYONE!</b>
October 7, 2001 3:18:50 PM

moo

if in doubt blame microsoft...
October 7, 2001 8:11:04 PM

rcf = the fanatic.
Matisaro simply wants be better price/performance ration as SHOULD any smart consumer. No one should want to buy a similar product rediculously priced. Now its looking like Nvidia is going to be expensive and ATi will be the under dog taking the cake.
I'm the same way, if Pentium 4 did what I needed, and had a better price/performance ratio I'd buy it, but thats not the case.
October 7, 2001 8:54:26 PM

RCF, 3D S Max, doesn't care about RAM speed. It cares about processing power, and when max gets optimized for Quadro DCC, which is more powerful than GF3 in teh first place, it really goes fast. Good thing Gf3 can be turned into Quadro, making it faster, but what really plays a role in max is teh Maxtreme drivers.

U got a problem?! Then dial 1800-328-7448!
October 8, 2001 2:26:07 AM

Yeah nice and hacked up. Well one thing i want to now. Why the hell do they hold back 3d textures well the Current GF3 users can use it. Easily Say its a new feature in the GF3 Ti series making it seem like a new core. Its simply a over clocked and lower clocked GF3. Well now yeah thats good. Well i guess you like companys that force 3rd partys make are cards or we cut you off totally *example: PowerColor*. Well i hope the Gigabyte Radeon 7500 will sell alot cuz nvidia is rumored to cutt there supply.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
October 8, 2001 2:31:48 AM

Rcf, all companies do that, npatches for example, a feature which only works if the game is patched for it, yet it is tauted as the end all be all of videogame awesomeness. How is enabling a feature with a later driver update different than claiming your card has a feature, but is only accessable on games which specifically implement it.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
October 8, 2001 3:38:11 AM

erm... how does the 7500 compare to the 8500 regarding core/mem/# number of pipelines etc?

cauz i saw a titanium review (think it was at anandtech) and the 7500 came in around the geforce2ultra... not that spectacular.
i assume the 8500 is significantly better.

also i hope ati's drivers are as good as the detonator 4's.

Religious wars are 2 groups of people fighting over who has the best imaginary friend.
October 8, 2001 9:41:16 AM

The 7500 is a enhanced version of the origional radeon I think.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
October 8, 2001 10:03:47 AM

http://www.hardsalon.com/opennews.asp?page=1&zhuti=1995...

Where to begin, ok.

First this is another 3dmark2001 benchmark, it also shows stock and I am assuming best stable overclocked results(looks like the gf3ti500 got to 260/580 nicely).

To sum it up, the radeon wins at 800x600 by ~200 stock and ~300 pts. overclocked.
It loses 10x7 at stock by like ~50 pts and wins max overclocked by ~200pts.
HOWEVER, and heres the interesting part. The gf3 pulls ahead QUITE NICELY when you go to 1600x1200. Winning the stock competition by ~400 and the overclock by ~200.

This shows 2 things,
A: the radeon8500 overclocks better than the ti500, but not enough to make up for the ti's apparent performance advantage.
B: The radeon8500 CANNOT keep up with the gf3 ti500's memory controler, at higher resolutions its lead wanes. Interesting since the origional radeon versus the gf2 shows the exact opposite. Irony at its best. But it gets worse.

In the anti aliasing benchmarks the radeon does not win a single one. As the resolution increases it gets worse and worse, at 1600x1200 the radeon is losing by ~600 stock(600pts at 1600x1200 with fsaa is ALOT of points in 3dmark2001 btw) and ~450 overclocked.

This shows that the radeon has inferior fsaa capabilities. Hopefully they will release an improved driver for their card. But as it stands now, I have 2 links to show that the gf3ti 500 beats radeon in 3dmark 2001, to rcf's 1. RCF, I would like to hear your comments on this benchmark, and also links to other benchmarks. This is not an attack on you, or even on the radeon8500, I am merely posting links and anaylizing them. Please dont reply calling me names but keep the discussion on topic.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
October 9, 2001 12:38:23 AM

This card looks sweet; I just wish ATI would release some good linux OpenGL drivers.

Lyrics. Wasted time between solos.
October 9, 2001 2:12:37 AM

Thats a beta card buddy. Final radeon 8500 is clocked at 275/275 they have a beta 250/275 radeon.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
October 9, 2001 5:46:43 AM

Which they overclocked (to 280/290 I think maybe more)and it still lost rcf, did you look at the site?

The fact remains it seems the radeon8500 loses at high resolution, this in itself is extremely ironic as it was the biggest strong point in the origional radeons favor.

Do you have more benchmarks or are you prepared to admit the gf3 ti 500 is the winner of 3dmark2001.

(again I must stress I am not attacking rcf, or the radeon8500 but merely showing evidence of a fact and discussing that fact among other hardware fans, I hope that rcf is not taking this personally.)

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
October 9, 2001 4:47:15 PM

Yeah it can beat the beta card all right.

Its using the A12 stepping, not the A13 stepping of the Radeon 8500. So your confused when your looking at the gefore 3 Ti500 beating a R200(A12) beta.

Radeon 8500 in the A13 stepping should tell a different story.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
October 10, 2001 1:01:33 AM

"Should", we will see, I am open to more benchmarks.

However, the german site you posted for this very thread, were they not too using the "beta" version of the card, when you shamelessly used it to prove the radeon8500 was the god of 3dmark2001, when I post a benchmark which shows the claim to be false, you say the "beta" chip makes the benchmark test somehow invalid. You also used the "beta" benchmarks from toms which were released about a month ago to promote your blind ati fanboyism. You cant have it both ways rcf. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, you had made many good posts before the radeon8500 benchmarks were released, then you descended into trolldom, and reside there today.
You insulted me in a totally unrelated thread(cpu/p4 and temprature thread) for posting benchmarks(which incase you havent checked back got you called a troll/zealot by some of the most venerable and most respected members of this forum) you insult me still. I asked for your apology for the misunderstanding/insults, which you have yet to give. You are now on the same level as FUGGER/AMDmeltdown and other trolls on this board as far as I am concerned. I dont care if you care about that, but others see you this way as well. If this boards oppinion of you means anything to you you should change your trolling ways. As for me, I have made up my mind about you.

Run along now little troll.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
October 10, 2001 3:55:31 PM

ahhhhh.....when ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise.

and remember....if you build a man a fire he is warm for the night. If you set a man on fire, he is warm for the rest of his short, frantic life.

--Wassamatta you?--
October 10, 2001 4:17:20 PM

I had a revelation the other day.

Well, you know how a good deal of people are polarised toward one company or another and expend significant amounts of bile in trying to press their case on behalf of one company or another. The thing is; do any of these companies care? I mean if I bumped into Craig Barrat on the streat and told him how I worship the ground his company walks on, he would probably give me a funny look, and hurry on his way whilst probably filing a restraining order against me.

At the end of the day, to these corperations we are all just stastics in terms of how many thousands of parts they can ship. So perhaps we should fall drop this loyalty thing and just do the rational thing and buy only what is worth it.

Democracy Bernad, it must be stopped!
October 10, 2001 6:15:05 PM

NO CYRIX will live on forever. They make the best processors out there. j/k Of course they don't care. But people feel if they are loyal they'll get something out of it. Plus people don't like change, if you stay with the same company you become accustomed to the way they do business and don't want to change.

Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
October 11, 2001 1:28:33 AM

I wonder how hot these new Toy Story cards run?
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
October 12, 2001 5:52:07 AM

I'm going to sing us a song about 3dmark 2k1.......

Isn't it ironic don't you think ? Its like a benchmark that cripples kyro's and radeons..... Isn't it ironic don't you think ? Its a like a benchmark based on a geforce 3....


okay i'm done singing now.... Oh and btw i own a gefore 3 , radeon and kyro2 .... personaly i love my radeon for 2d ... my kyro is in my game rig right now..... the geforce 3 is in my sisters computer... but really why don't we wait and see how these cards play x mass games and not lasts years benchmark where even worm from madonion says there is a bug that screws the kyro and you can see major increases just by using the nature test that up untill the r8500 only one card could run.... the test isn't set up right disable the nature test and the other direct x 8 features and see how the score drops to around a geforce 2 ultra score... this is because the points given out aren't even.... seriously test it on games like wolfinstin mp and what not , not quake 3 and unreal tourny ... cause at this point does it matter if one card gets 210 frames and the other gets 211 frames in quake 3 ? see what wolfie does and other games that should be out this x mass the games these two cards are meant to run..... and don't go and say well wolfie is made from the quake 3 engine ... just look at the lovely athlon xp benchs ... quake 3 loves the p4 , wolfie loves the athlon xp......
October 12, 2001 7:54:09 AM

The nature test could only run on 1 card because it is a dx8 test, the gf3 was the only dx8 card there was till the radeon 8500.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
October 12, 2001 11:19:35 PM

and what do you think they built the test around ? you think they said oh here lets make this code and not test iton anything before we ship it out or how about this nice geforce 3 that nvidia gave us , we can test it and make imporvements based on this....
October 13, 2001 2:10:08 AM

Direct x8 is not dependant on the card it runs on. They may have tested it on a gf3,(cause thats the only card which supports dx8) but it will run on a radeon8500 just as well, if it dosent , it is radeons fault.
PS: if it did run worse on radeon8500 that would be indicitave of every dx8 game, as far as I know the nature test does NOT use gf3 specific code and or extensions.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
October 13, 2001 3:28:58 AM

as far as you know..... look all i know is if i make a program on my pc you can bet it will run faster on a athlon and a radeon than a p4 and a geforce.
October 13, 2001 5:28:16 AM

That is not the programs fault, if you code the program to use a specific application set, such as dx8, if that program runs faster on one videocard and slower on another then it is the fault of the card NOT the programming. The nature test was written before the gf3 was released If I remember correctly, dx8 is a universal standard, if the app is coded in dx8 then claiming the test is biased to the gf3 makes no sense, because other cards can run the nature test.

In regards to being biased, if a card does no support bump mapping, it will score less than a card which does, even if they perform equally when bump mapping is not used. This is because the card with bump mapping has more features thusn is more powerful then the card which does not. Or 64mb texturing fits the same example. When 3dmark2001 says test not supported skipping, it is not docking you points, it just isnt giving you any for features you do not support.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
October 13, 2001 12:00:29 PM

Anyone who even thinks about spending so much
money for a card, should have his daxes doubled,
because he earns too much...

Can anyone tell me how to
stop spelling bananana daiquiri?
October 13, 2001 4:29:10 PM

I agree with RCF84, his benchs are for what is closer to the final card. RCF84 is not acting like a troll, he's bringing quality information to the table, are you?
Whats this 'gang mentality' of so many boards, 'a well respected member called you a troll so scurry on infidel!', oh please. I hoped this board wasn't infested with this BS.

On the original topic (would be nice eh?), its nice to see everyone elses panties get bunched up because a radeon beat a ti500.
For a while there was a post on anandtech how you could get one for $200 from dell using their 20% off offer. Compare that to the ti500 regardless of if it simply matches it in benchmarks, lets go as far as to say its slightly inferior to the ti500 in performance, its still a dx8.1 card while the nv isn't, AND cheaper.

NV fans (i use a nv card but im not a fanboy) always swore by 3dmark until now, now its 'just one useless benchmark' lol..
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
October 13, 2001 5:42:57 PM

If I knew that people out there were so easily outraged...

Hey, I am really sorry. I just do not like benchmarks and
people who just look at the performance and not after the
price.

For all I know both cards are between Deutsche Mark 500
and 900, witch is a "benchMARK" that I do really understand.

I am using a used noname Geforce2Pro64DDR ($ 50,-)and I do not think that 20% bench-profit is worth so much money...

Bye
Marauder
October 13, 2001 5:51:27 PM

sorry my post was referring to martiso and the guys going round and round.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
October 13, 2001 6:46:53 PM

I never could understand why people get so emotional about stuff like that either...it's not like anyone has a personal vested interest in any particular piece of hardware, yet sometimes the posting can get soooo carried away about it all. If I think one drive or (insert hardware of your choice here) is better than another, and you agree with me, that's great. If on the other hand you disagree with me, then that's great too. Maybe I'll even learn something from you, which would be the greatest of all.

:o 
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
October 15, 2001 2:31:15 AM

actually madonion it self stated that they had beta geforce 3's to test the nature test on.... I don't really care which card is faster with any game that is out right now.... i care about the games that will be out this x mass and next xmass.... thats what i'm buying this card for , like i said i don't care if quake 3 gets 5fps more on card a or card b , i care which card gets more fps on wolfenstien 3d and doom3 and unreal 2 and civ3 :-) quake and unreal and 3dmark shouldn't be used anymore , games should only stay as a bench for a year or mabye 2 and then be disposed of .
!