Cheating let talk about cheating

[juin]

NV detonator xp also know 20.20.

There were release maybe a couple of hour before the launch of ATI Radeon 8500.

DET XP have improve score of geforce 3 who is not right it have improve Quake 3 score and 3dmark score .Quake/3Dmark are the biggest benchmark around.For the rest there were maybe 5% to 9% upgrade in term of speed.

We can call that also cheating.

Wisdom dont come with time
Meilleur chance la prochaine fois

 

[Matisaro]

Umm, no, we cant call that cheating. The detonator drivers affected all games relativly equally, and most importantly, it did NOT turn down and chang graphic settings secretly to increase frame rates. That is what you call cheating.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[juin]

ATI have made that for win benchmark.
Nvisia have release beta driver for wining benchmark.

It the same.So you call Ati cheating , i say the same Nvisia.

The detonator drivers affected all games relativly equally,

That not right Evolva have not take the marge of upgrade that quake.Also the driver were release way after the benchmark, but anadtech have dont say anything about that.

Wisdom dont come with time
Meilleur chance la prochaine fois

 

[Matisaro]

Juin, the detonator drivers gave a boost to all games(cept for giants but they fixxed that with the official release). They did so WITHOUT sacrifising ANY visual quality or turning down ANY settings.

This is NOT cheating, THAT is driver optimisations.

You can feel nvidia cheated if that makes you feel better, but logic dictates otherwise.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[pr497]

isnt this just great?

I don't claim to know anything about everything, I just tell people what I know.
-PSB

 

[Oni]

Juin the new detonator enabled two features of the geforce 3 that were previously not supported because they couldn't get their drivers right. They did not sell the geforce 3 to people saying the board could support these features (which ati is currently doing). Its only the Ti200 and Ti500 that are selling with these features because they finally got them working. This is why the card now performs better because they are now enabled giving a performance boost in ALL 3d programs.
ATI on the other had have drivers optimized specifically for quake 3 and only quake 3, and that IS cheating.
Nvidia simply didn't sell a feature they didn't support, and Ati is selling smoothvision support that doesn't even work! What they should have done is not even mention smoothvision and then suddenly one day its supported and it makes all 8500 owners very happy, and draws in more new buyers.

 

[LoveGuRu]

btw, what the TI500/200 got over the G3(riginal)?

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*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
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[lhgpoobaa]

when i went from detonators 12.41's to the 21.85's i saw 8 extra fsp in serious sam, a couple in UT, and numerious bugfixes(extra resolutions in win2k) and more stability.
that aint cheating, thats goood driver design

if ati ISNT cheating, why does the one big optimisation work only for quake3 and its offshoots?

OEMs selling "High End"PCs with integrated video will be forced into Q3tournaments using a TNT2M64!

 

[AMD_Man]

The Detonator XPs are legimate improvements however the Detonator 3s were not. They improvement performance in Quake III made the sky textures look aweful due to the "improved" texture compression implementation.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[Matisaro]

And if you turned off their BROKEN texture compression the improvements were still there, nvidia screwed up on its origional texture compression but it was not cheating.

The texture compression was broken for all games which took advantage of the feature, not just quake3.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[lagger]

At it's simplist cheating is defined as an attempt to dissemble, lie or otherwise hide \ color the truth.. this is what ATI did by secretly lowering the picture quality in order to artificialy inflate quake fps's Nvidia's drivers do not attempt to hide anything or over ride user resolution and quality settings \ speed settings like ATI did with theirs

Lagger

<b><font color=blue>I'm a NASTY Intel\AMD\Nvidia\ATI user and I'm just gonna TAKE that d@mn cookie</b> </font color=blue>

 

[AMD_Man]

It was cheating Matisaro!! Texture compression was perfect before the Detonator 3s. Turning off texture compression is the same as renaming Quake to Quack! Texture Compression was not broken, the quality was just BAD starting with the Detonator 3!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[Matisaro]

Lagger summed it up, but for your sake I will continue to discuss your allegations.


First of all, please show me links to what you are talking about, I was under the impression you meant the broken st3c compression inherant to the gf 1 and 2 design(and possibly 3) but you make it seem otherwise. So please provide me with background/evidence of your claim that nvidia cheated with texture compression specifically with the det 3 drivers. Then we may continue the debate.


Thankyou.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[LoveGuRu]

man we have this "ATI cheating" issue all over this forum, cant we talk about something else?

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[AMD_Man]

I don't need to show you any links!! See for yourself. Install old Detonator 2 drivers (prior to version 6) and try Quake III. Install the Detonator 3 drivers and try Quake III again. Look closely at the sky.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[Guest]

I fail to understand how you define what nVidia did as cheating. I concede that the compression scheme was bad and that the sky looked badly...but didn't nVidia acknowledge that it had problems?

Most importantly was the fact that the problem was not game specific. The det3s did not modify a users files in any way that the user was not aware of, unlike the ATI drivers, which have been proven to change the settings on a users computer without express permission.

 

[AMD_Man]

It was cheating until nVidia acknowledged it was having problems (which might or might not be the truth). When the new drivers come out next week for the Radeon 8500 and ATI acknowledges the previous driver's faults, it will not be cheating!!!! I think we should hear from ATI before we condemn them.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[LoveGuRu]

dont make me spank you!
you want to see the business end of my M16?

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*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
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[LoveGuRu]

dont make me spank you!
you want to see the business end of my M16?

<font color=green>
*******
*K.I.S.S*
*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
*******
</font color=green>

 

[eden]

Yes, I say we put this thread on a freeze for until we get ATi's next drivers. So keep this bumped up.
A company can make some things such texture compression to have some users get some performance, but at least they put an option to it. One that doesn't, forcing me to play a game less graphicly beautiful for the sake of more FPS that I can't even perceive (over 200, no one could ever) JUST so benchmarks make it look a lot, it won't help. Already a GF2 MX is enough to run Q3 at smoothness, so adding to an old game a feature to increase unseen FPS and lower quality is CHEATING. There were no option to disable, and they also said we get a feature but we don't. It's double-crossing, they cheated us.
FREEZE.

 

[AMD_Man]

What are you talking about LoveGuru? Anyway, I agree with Eden, let's put this issue on hold 'til the new drivers come out.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[LoveGuRu]

i dono just trying to change subject

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