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The time has come, my little friends

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Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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December 1, 2001 3:10:26 AM

That's right, I'm going to retire my faithful Hercules GeForece 2MX 64MB. I finally found a game that it can't run at 1024x768x32 with all the details turned up (Ghost Recon).

I'm looking at an 8500 (retail), but I have a couple of questions.
Obviously, the drivers are the biggest question. Current ones ok (stable)? Any recent word on Truform being implemented soon?

$255 at Newegg, good deal. The opposition, the Visiontek Ti500, also a good card. $319, a decent amount more. I'd probably have to wait a while longer to get it.

I've seen conflicting reports on image quality, but they both look ok, so I'm not too worried about that.

I'm talking to a friend of mine who says I should get the GF3Ti500 because of Xbox games being brought over to the PC. They'd probably play better on a similar card.

Any thoughts? I'm looking at getting it around Christmas (just because of how my money works out, not because it's Christmas).

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>

More about : time friends

December 1, 2001 3:20:20 AM

Fat, get Ti500. Great drivers (trusted drivers as well), and many, many optimizations. It most likely will be optimized fro the XBox games coming, so it'll last u for some time.

NOS and a <font color=red> Ferrari </font color=red> can be fun! :cool:
December 1, 2001 3:54:19 AM

<font color=blue>That's right, I'm going to retire my</font color=blue> <font color=red> faithful Hercules GeForece 2MX 64MB.</font color=red> <font color=blue> I finally found a game that it can't run at 1024x768x32 with all the details turned up (Ghost Recon). </font color=blue>

Good things come to those who wait.

defrage is child's play-fdisk
Related resources
a b U Graphics card
December 1, 2001 4:22:43 AM

The 8500 is a GREAT DEAL, TRUEFORM is the wave of the future for gaming realism and nVidia has not released their own version of it yet. MOST people are reporting NO problems with the latest Radeon drivers.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
December 1, 2001 5:13:05 AM

Quote:
Good things come to those who wait.


???

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 1, 2001 5:35:51 AM

ok:
R8500 $225
ti 500 $315 (and its visiontek...i dont like them that much)

are you willing to pay that extra $90 to get slightly better framerates on a handful of games that are older than half the computers people own?

and about the xbox with the gf3...
the xbox has a modified version of a gf3.
the gamecube has some kind of "supposed ati technology enhanced" graphics card.
personally....i like the gamecubes graphics better than the xbox's.
and besides...who wants a game console that is known to crash (ie. xbox) just like a computer?
anyways...i think some people will buy a gf3 ti 500 just for bragging rights.
both are very good cards...but cheaper is better (pricewise of course).

I don't claim to know anything about everything, I just tell people what I know.
-PSB
December 1, 2001 5:41:00 AM

opps...
R8500 $255
ti500 $319

$65 difference...
my eyes must be going bad...
ah well...

I don't claim to know anything about everything, I just tell people what I know.
-PSB
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
December 1, 2001 2:00:41 PM

read my post "All GeForce3..." and buy a Ti200! It can be o'clocked higher thatn Ti500! Also all famous places show that GeForce3 has a way higher frame rate in OpenGL games (OpenGL will be used the most in the futur) while Radeon8500 is better at Direct3D (I feel like it was desighned to give a high score in 3dmark2001 and that's it!) drivers still suck!
December 1, 2001 4:07:15 PM

pr497, I must ask u, where do u get yuour weed? Gamecube's graphics are childs' play compared to XBox- XBox's are so much more complex and better.

NOS and a <font color=red> Ferrari </font color=red> can be fun! :cool:
December 1, 2001 4:18:04 PM

R8500 or Ti500... does it really matter? They are both great cards. R8500 is DirectX8.1 and cheaper, Ti500 has much more mature drivers but more expensive. Is there any of these things that matter more to you? If it's the price go 8500, if it is drivers go Ti500.

In the end you'll get an awesome card, i envy you ;) 


-----
It's a shame we have only one soul to sell...
December 1, 2001 9:15:59 PM

Do you have a link for that? The new drivers don't have this issue, as far as I know.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 2, 2001 2:23:41 AM

I'd say the GF3, if your willing to pay.

defrage is child's play-fdisk
December 2, 2001 2:46:00 AM

Quote:
who wants a game console that is known to crash


The Xbox <font color=red>DOES NOT CRASH</font color=red>. I'm getting sick of people putting down Microsoft for no reason.

Anyhow, the GF3Ti500 is DX8, not DX8.1? Can someone verify this? I didn't realize, that may make the difference.

Oh, and juin: I'll possibly get a Northwood after they come out, depending on the benchmarks. We'll see.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 2, 2001 3:23:54 AM

relax...its only an opinion (just like nvidia vs. ati and amd vs. intel bah, bah, bah)...now...where's the weed you owe me?

I don't claim to know anything about everything, I just tell people what I know.
-PSB
December 2, 2001 5:30:14 AM

Actually flamethrower your wrong, the gamecube's graphics look much nicer than the xbox's, while its hardware may not be quite as powerful, the fact it uses a custom driver set and dosent have any pc type archetechture. And the t1sram memory, is more than enough to deliver smoother and richer looking graphics.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 2, 2001 5:34:58 AM

Modern games barely use dx7 fatty, why does it matter if the gf3 has dx 8.1?

PS: if you have a gf3 ti500 I am willing to bet 20 bucks that the first xbox emulators will only work on your system.


"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 2, 2001 9:01:59 AM

i'm going to agree withyou on this one. my xbox has not given me the blue screen. yet.

<font color=blue>windows halted. restart system.</font color=blue> <font color=red>me</font color=red> :mad:  . <font color=green>Bill G</font color=green> :lol:  .
December 2, 2001 9:05:12 AM

one of my computers do all the time, but its a 386 used for old amiga emulators.

<font color=blue>windows halted. restart system.</font color=blue> <font color=red>me</font color=red> :mad:  . <font color=green>Bill G</font color=green> :lol:  .
December 2, 2001 12:09:27 PM

Ah, but what of the games of tomorrow? Indeed, the Radeon is DX 8.1 while the GeForce 3 is DX 8.0. This means, for the Radeon, full pixel shader implementation. Games that come out and use it will look quite a bit more realistic and richer compared to those that do not. Truform helps, but mostly with older games. And it has its downsides too, for control for it is at the developer level, not the user level, so you can either have it on or off, and if not implemented properly, can round edges that are not meant to be rounded at all.

GF3 is a shade faster. Radeon 8500 is a shade prettier.

Radeon 8500 roughly $40 cheaper if you really find lowest prices for both.

You have a choice. The green pill, or the red pill. Hang on, that's the Matrix.

Any way, either way, they will both make you happier than your current graphics card. Neither will hug you or say I love you, but that is what girlfriends are for.

How long is a piece of string? The same shape as something beige.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2001 12:43:15 PM

Yeah, what the OzzieBloke said.

However, I would lean towards the Radeon.
But then again, I'm a Ford man.

<b> <font color=orange>Cynicism. It's what's for dinner. </b> </font color=orange>
December 2, 2001 12:57:44 PM

hmm, YOUR GRAPHICS CARD IS YOUR FRIEND!! BE ONE WITH THE GRAPHICS CARD!! Girlfriends can't replace your relationship with your graphics card.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 2, 2001 5:36:10 PM

i thought it was the blue pill and the red pill?
man...now i gotta go look for my matrix dvd to find out...

I don't claim to know anything about everything, I just tell people what I know.
-PSB
December 2, 2001 5:48:00 PM

I still think graphics are better- and have u noticed how complex things can be, ie physics and stuff? Pr, your weed will be sent to u:) 

NOS and a <font color=red> Ferrari </font color=red> can be fun! :cool:
December 2, 2001 5:52:51 PM

Complex physics???

The powerpc class cpu in the gamecube can eat the xbox's celly for BREAKFAST. So any cpu based physics and ai calcs which can be done on the xbox, can be done much better on the gamecube. Graphics are in the air, Both are very beautiful, the games I played for gamecube just felt smoother, as I mentioned in another thread, on the xbox, I saw pc slowdown.(a brief slowdown, then everything comes back to speed). Not on the gamecube.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 2, 2001 6:05:29 PM

I still think graphics aren't as good.

NOS and a <font color=red> Ferrari </font color=red> can be fun! :cool:
December 2, 2001 7:21:45 PM

how did this topic go from picking out a new video card to debating whether the xbox has better graphics than gamecube and vice versa?

I don't claim to know anything about everything, I just tell people what I know.
-PSB
December 2, 2001 9:51:58 PM

hey fatty,

For one do you have the money? You buying pentium 4's left and right obviously you have money to throw away. So just go buy the geforce 3?

as for the radeon 8500 i think ATI screwed up it's launch for the radeon 8500. As for drivers ati has better image quality and the drivers are immature but will get better.

Nvidia isn't perfect either with there drivers. nvidia sacrificed image quality for speed. How do you think they got there cards to go soo fast? a magic pill? no they sacrficed image quality for speed. Which is evident when you switched different FSAA methods the speed loss was very minimal and the image quality was a step below that of the ATI card. You need to have 4x FSAA to get 2x FSAA on a radeon. at least that was my impression of toms review.

However, do you actually pause the game and get a zoom up look of a corner of a wall to see how sharp it is? lol no your too busy shooting nazi's.

i'd get the radeon 8500 to be honest. It's cheaper and runs just as fast. I'm waiting though. Prices will drop after christmass... i hope.

I thought the northwoods were already out? thats why the socket 478? or was that just a micron shrink and the northwood is a revamp?

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
December 2, 2001 10:01:08 PM

God, will u people get over this image quality myth? There is no difference in image quality!

NOS and a <font color=red> Ferrari </font color=red> can be fun! :cool:
December 2, 2001 10:38:52 PM

Quote:
For one do you have the money? You buying pentium 4's left and right obviously you have money to throw away. So just go buy the geforce 3?

Huh? How many P4s did FatBurger buy?

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 2, 2001 10:39:54 PM

Image quality isn't really an issue in 3D games but it is in 2D apps and ATI has a superior RAMDAC and superior DVD capabilities.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 3, 2001 12:02:34 AM

That's AFTER!! If the Northwood doesn't live up to the hype he probably won't buy it. However, I have a feeling that it will! I mean, cache size and the FPU performance were the Willy's downfalls and the Northwood promises to improve both.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 3, 2001 12:18:32 AM

I know what FSAA is, and I also find it pointless. First of all, I use OpenGL whenever possible, and under that on my comp, there is absolutely no need for FSAA, cause everything is already smooth. When there is only D3D, I up teh res to the next one (ie, I play at 800x600 usually cause I have a 15" CRT, and I simply put it at 1024x768, and bam, no ridgies.) Don't think I'm some sort of idiot, k. Oh yeah, I use Photoshop, and play DVD's on comp- it looks great, so whoever is telling me that the image quality sucks can go to hell.

NOS and a <font color=red> Ferrari </font color=red> can be fun! :cool:
December 3, 2001 12:19:34 AM

And then sledgehammer comes out......

NOS and a <font color=red> Ferrari </font color=red> can be fun! :cool:
December 3, 2001 12:25:39 AM

I pause to look at the game.....especially when I'm on counterstrike and by myself waiting for the enemy to come, or in other games. GF series will have more optimizations for games, so that's why I suggest Fats goes with them. Plus, when teh urge arises, you can turn it into a Quadro series.

NOS and a <font color=red> Ferrari </font color=red> can be fun! :cool:
December 3, 2001 1:43:06 AM

Um, because you use a 15" monitor. Up the res a bit on a 19" monitor or a 21" monitor and you'll realize that there's a difference.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 3, 2001 2:01:42 AM

Asus deluxe GF3 has tuner I believe. I actually have a Quadro DCC, but in essence that is a GF3. As fro AMD-man's reply, I have friends who have 21" monitors w/ Gf3, and quality is just as good as on mine.

NOS and a <font color=red> Ferrari </font color=red> can be fun! :cool:
December 3, 2001 2:08:53 AM

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! So many replies, so little time. But don't worry, I'll answer as much as I can.

Quote:
<i>Matisaro says:</i>
Modern games barely use dx7 fatty, why does it matter if the gf3 has dx 8.1?

I saw a list of Dx8.0 & 8.1 games a while back. Not impressive at all, but it'll grow. Max Payne is DX8, for one.

Quote:
<i>Matisaro also says:</i>
PS: if you have a gf3 ti500 I am willing to bet 20 bucks that the first xbox emulators will only work on your system.

That could be, but I'm willing to wait, if so. That's a small advantage, but not huge.

Quote:
<i>OzzieBloke says:</i>
GF3 is a shade faster. Radeon 8500 is a shade prettier.

And I have seen very convincing websites that say the opposite, as well. It's still a tough call. Remember that the 8500 is still the #1 card at MadOnion.com. Great post though, thanks.

Quote:
<i>petr0lb0mb's sig says:</i>
<b><font color=orange>Cynicism. It's what's for dinner.</font color=orange></b>

Great sig. Reminds me of me :) 

Quote:
<i>xxsk8er101xx says:</i>
You buying pentium 4's left and right

I am? Please tell me where I hid them, I forgot :) 

Quote:
<i>xxsk8er101xx also says:</i>
I thought the northwoods were already out? thats why the socket 478? or was that just a micron shrink and the northwood is a revamp?

Northwoods are not out. Current 478s are Willamette, .18 micron. Northwood will have a better FPU and 512 L2, not 256.

Quote:
<i>AMD_Man says:</i>
I mean, cache size and the FPU performance were the Willy's downfalls and the Northwood promises to improve both.

Yes, but the L1 cache was the killer, not the L2. They're wrapping the unsprained ankle :( 

Quote:
<i>flamethrower2025 says:</i>
Plus, when teh urge arises, you can turn it into a Quadro series.

Ah...hadn't thought of that. I'm pretty decent with a soldering iron, too. A friend of mine is even better. That just might swing the balance.

Quote:
<i>xxsk8er101xx also, also says:</i>
How is the TV tuner for the geforce 3?

TV tuner for the GF3? Don't think I'd get this, but you've intrigued me.



Sorry I couldn't reply to everyone, but it took long enough to do all this :) 

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 3, 2001 2:15:53 AM

Missed a couple:

Quote:
<i>yellowood says:</i>
R8500 is DirectX8.1 and cheaper, Ti500 has much more mature drivers but more expensive


They are both 8.1, don't know if you realized that. The original GF3 is 8.0, the Ti500 is 8.1.

Quote:
<i>flamethrower2025 says:</i>
Asus deluxe GF3 has tuner I believe

No, it doesn't :(  Friend of mine has one.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 3, 2001 2:16:53 AM

Fatty, u don't need soldering iron, u can use rivatuner, so u don't void warranty (if u recall my little incident w/ the killer fans in my comp). The asus deluxe has a tv in, so u can watch tv via gf3.

NOS and a <font color=red> Ferrari </font color=red> can be fun! :cool:
December 3, 2001 5:19:39 AM

great job in answering all those posts

I don't claim to know anything about everything, I just tell people what I know.
-PSB
December 3, 2001 4:30:29 PM

Ah, ok. TV in, not a TV tuner. Now I see what you mean.
Rivatuner, I'll have to take a look at that, thanks.

Here's something interesting. From PriceWatch, a card from ENPC.com:
Quote:
Visiontek Xtasy Everything Cinema 5564, GeForce2 MX 400 64MB AGP w/Remote Control - Retail Boxed

nVidia competition begin - compete with All-In-Wonder Radeon 8500DV and so on!


Hmm...an MX400 competing with the 8500DV?

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 3, 2001 6:32:39 PM

Ok FAT, I own a 8500 so take note, the new drivers are good, it runs ghost recon flawlessly, you should see the new demos from ati on this thing they are amazing, and I can overclock this thing to 300/300 with no ram sinks or additional cooling. It`s a great card at a great price and we still have driver improvements to come.

You`ll get nothing and like it.
December 3, 2001 7:58:11 PM

I hope that's your sig, and not a final comment :( 

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 3, 2001 9:03:29 PM

Ok, I'm gonna allow myself to be a troll this one post. Here goes:
That is his final comment, cause w/ Ati u do get nothing.

NOS and a <font color=red> Ferrari </font color=red> can be fun! :cool:
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