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geforce 3 or retail radeon 8500?

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  • Geforce
  • Radeon
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December 27, 2001 11:20:46 AM

Ok, I got two more days to make a decision Geforce 3 or radeon 8500. My budget is give or take $215 which is in the range for a geforce 3, ti 200 and a radeon 8500 retail. I'm mainly into DVD ripping and also I do like them games :)  Which card would give me the most bang for my buck in my case? I'm dual booting Linux and WIndows XP, i barely use linux so let's just think on the windows XP side

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December 27, 2001 11:27:10 AM

Well, if you want top performance now, then, by all means, get a GeForce3 Ti200. If you're willing to wait a month or two to reach peak performance, then get a Radeon 8500. Under peak performance, the Radeon 8500 will significantly outperform a GeForce3 Ti200 and even a GeForce3 Ti500. Now a lot of people will disagree with me, so I'm going to say two things: first of all, ATI has made 3 updated drivers for the Radeon 8500, so far, and I believe they will keep this pace, secondly, I'm slightly biased towards the Radeon 8500 because I have one and I love, I'm having no problems.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 27, 2001 12:15:52 PM

Consider this before you buy both nVIDA and ATI releasing new GPUs Feb 2002 even if you don't buy them it should push down prices of the other cards significantly who knows Radeon 8500 retail for $150. By the way new gpu from nVIDIA called nv25 based on Xbox and ATI's = R300 based on the gamecube plus somethingelse I am not allowed to tell you, but I can tell you this ATI's gpu got embedded "special" ram greatly alleviating the bandwidth problem seen in gpu, yup its going to be a great 2002 since ATI has a extra surprise in the chipset sector and not mention nVIDIA producing a audio solution to rival that of the soundblaster AUDIGY you heard it hear first folks. BY the way this is 50% truth 50% speculation the IT industry changes rapidly. :-)
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December 27, 2001 12:43:47 PM

Agh, well, I just hope my Radeon 8500 can last me a couple of years of high-performance game play.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 27, 2001 1:06:27 PM

If Linux was important to you, I'd sudgest the Geforce 3 Ti200, due to superior Linux suport. Otherwise, go with the Radeon 8500. The DVD playback on it is nice, visual quality I found to be excelent, and the card has plenty of power (I can run NHL 2002 without a hitch at 1600x1200x32 on it while I have Seti running in the background along with a few other programs) for games.

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December 27, 2001 1:14:13 PM

NHL2002 is not a demanding game however. Remember, it was designed with a TNT2 in mind.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
December 27, 2001 1:19:22 PM

Interesting debate. I'm ni the process of upgrading. I want my video card to 3d game and I need it for recording family home videos. What format should I record in and then what equipment should I use? I was thinking the ASUS t5 (ti 500) bundle or the straight Geforce 3 bundle (both have vid in and out)

Any help would be great I want to purchase next week.
December 27, 2001 1:45:22 PM

Well, you might also consider looking into the ATI All In Wonder Radeon 8500DV because it has superior Video In feautres. However, it's performance is only on par with a GeForce3 Ti200.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 27, 2001 3:13:56 PM

ATi isnt releasing the R300 in Feb 2002. ATi is releasing an Ultra Radeon 8800 300/600 with 128mb DDR-SDRAM.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
December 27, 2001 3:32:08 PM

Ati isn';t being creative anymore. Let's see how many years they'll keep the R200 GPU, just keep adding RAM. Can't wait for GF4. For 215$, I think u can get a GF3 reg, not Ti200.

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
December 27, 2001 3:41:55 PM

Ok......the R200 is a BRAND NEW CORE!! NVidia themselves did the same thing with the GeForce2 line and the GeForce3 line. Nvidia has countless variations of the GeForce2 and GeForce3.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 27, 2001 4:10:46 PM

...but look at how long they kept up teh orig Radeons.

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
December 27, 2001 5:00:24 PM

I agree there. The original Radeons lasted too long without any revamping. In fact, the Radeon 7500 is merely a souped up Radeon. The R200 is a new core and therefore, assuming ATI is planning for the future, will be able to clock up easily so we might see multiple variations of the Radeon 8000s series. Perhaps, the R300 will be a Radeon 9000. BTW, ATI has done a good job in reducing the jargon for newbies. Newbies are having a hard time deciphering between variations of the GeForce2. ATI has fixed this problem in their new line of cards by using a numeric scheme. The higher the number, the faster the card.......

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 27, 2001 5:04:12 PM

All I'm saying is that Ati shouldn't keeo teh R200 core as long as the Radeon. Thing about newbies is that they buy their comps prebuilt, meaning they don't say what goes where. Also, imo, it's not hard- MX, GTS, Pro, then Ultra. And plus, the GF3's- Ti200, GF3, Ti500 are logical.

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
December 27, 2001 5:14:25 PM

Quote:

Also, imo, it's not hard- MX, GTS, Pro, then Ultra. And plus, the GF3's- Ti200, GF3, Ti500 are logical.

You're missing a couple

GEFORCE2
MX-200
MX
MX-400
GTS-V
GTS
GTS Pro (366MHz memory)
Pro
TI
Ultra

GEFORCE3:
TI200
GF3
TI500

Now you see why it's confusing?

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 27, 2001 5:16:13 PM

Lol. I was just naming the basics. But come on, any haflwit that spends time w/ comp hardware should know the difference- at least general difference.

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
December 27, 2001 5:25:08 PM

Yes, true, but then why do we see all these people "upgrading" to an MX200 when an MX/MX400 only costs a couple of bucks more?

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 27, 2001 5:41:21 PM

lol. Or upgrading to an MX200 from an MX. hehehe. That's always amusing.

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
December 27, 2001 6:02:49 PM

you missed the golden samples...

BTW, I don't think the nv25 will be out on feb, but merely be announced. It will be a couple of months before it is "out", then probably another month before it is actually available. Its always like that with all the companies. It will have a few new features though. Voodoo5500esq Anti-Aliasing (rotary?), DVD decodeing and image quality that is supposed to surpass anything in the radeon family. And I think thats about it. oh yeah... an extra vertex shader. and 128mb ddr ram at some high frequency.

But think of it this way, when it is out, the other cards currently on the market will actually be affordable.

<font color=red><i>99% of statistics are made up!</i></font color=red>
December 27, 2001 6:28:42 PM

It'll also have a 300Mhz nfinite FX2 processor. Vid cards seem to be affordab;e- what r u talking about? Imo, 300$ for a vid card isn't unreasonable.

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
December 27, 2001 6:56:34 PM

i'm still bunked guys, i'm leaning towards the radeon now since amd man showed a lot of reasons, well kinda compared to the geforce 3 series. I also like this info about upcoming cards, but i dont really need that type of performance, can some geforce 3 biased people come and chat :) 
December 27, 2001 7:13:10 PM

Well, I'm running Radeon 8500 under WinXP with a 1.33GHz Athlon...this is just for people like juin who believe the Radeon 8500 is unstable with the Athlon. The Radeon 8500 isn't a bad card for the money...I got it for $384 CDN or ~$250 USD. That's not bad at all.... Plus, with the Radeon 8500, you get full dual-monitor support, DVI support for Digital LCDs, top of the line DVD playback (but make sure you download their latest player off their website, the bundled player seems to be buggy), and a 400MHz RAMDAC!! Also, don't forget Truform (aka NPATCHES) and full DX8.1 support. Disadvantages? Not prefect OPENGL 1.3 support, but that should be fixed in the next driver. A slight slow down in WinXP. I'm only getting ~7300 on 3DMark2001 but under Win98SE, I would probably be getting at or near ~8000. Anyway, I really can't complain about it. Yes, UT isn't too great under WinXP. I'm getting ~100 fps at 1024*768*32 but I should probably be getting ~125fps. Giants doesn't play perfectly either, or at least that's what I hear. I don't have Giants so I can't really comment on that. Serious Sam plays well but WinXP scores are less than optimal. All of these are signs of still immature drivers. I believe with time, they will go away.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 27, 2001 7:48:36 PM

In my days $300 was a lot of money. What the hell! it still is. It'd probably take most people over a week to get that sort of money, actually considering tax and stuff it'd probably take'em two weeks of work to earn that sort of money!

I remember when cards used to be 50-60squid, ~$70-80, for excellent gaming! or even $30-$40 before that (2d days).

I don't know if you're getting excessive pocket money or what, but $300 is a LOT of money. Even for someone like me who is getting around £40/hr on contracts.


<font color=red><i>99% of statistics are made up!</i></font color=red>
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
December 27, 2001 8:53:13 PM

I just ordered a new system with an Athlon XP and a Radeon 8500 about an hour ago. My reasoning was this:

You get better overall gaming performance than the Geforce3 (as the benchmarks show), and nearly as good of performance as a Geforce3 Ti500 (which would have cost me $70 more, and that's comparing a retail radeon with a oem Ti500). Plus it may well be as fast at the Ti500 in a month or so. Also, it has superior image quality, DVD playback, and has dual monitor outputs plus TV out.

I'm taking the chance. If Ati doesn't improve it and make it completely stable, then I'll be pissed. But I'm putting my money on Ati being the next AMD.

*****

That's what you get for buying your computer based on <font color=orange>color</font color=orange>. :redface:
December 27, 2001 9:17:48 PM

Unless lol, you get an oem radeon 8500 and its really a radeon 8000.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 27, 2001 9:22:56 PM

The superior image quality is a myth, anand did testing and found no difference in image quality.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 27, 2001 9:24:12 PM

Well, I doubt it. A Radeon 8000 with a clock speed of 250/250 isn't much slower and cheaper to make than a Radeon 8500. Differences between 8000-series variations will probably be more pronounced in terms of MHz and performance. IMHO, the AIW Radeon 8500DV should've been called the AIW Radeon 8000DV because it's significantly slower than a Radeon 8500.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 27, 2001 9:38:32 PM

I can't comment about the GeForce3 but I can tell you it's not a myth moving from a GeForce2 MX-400. Everything was abotu equal in image quality until 1280*1024, where the Radeon 8500 was obviously superior. I used to hate using any resolution over 1024*768 on my MX but under the Radeon 8500 it's great!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 27, 2001 11:13:00 PM

300$ in a week? May I ask what the average American salary is? In my community, the min. salary is 100 grand, and the average is like 300 grand. Hehe, I was ready to dish out $500 for a Gf3. Then I got it for $80;) Ok, GF3 biased person here. reasons to get it: It's not expensive, it's mad fast, Ati is in Canada, and as the southpark song clearly shows, blame Canada ;) . Ok, seriously, Gf3 does offer great performance- at the current moment better than the Radeons. Also, it has excellent drivers- and many new games coming out that are also for XBOX will be optimized for GF3- as well as most new games anyway. GF series are the market leader, meaning that products will be made for them. Also, if u ever get the need to make ur opengl run 2x as fast, you can always use Rivatuner on the GF3 to make it Quadro DCC.

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
December 27, 2001 11:15:53 PM

Totally agree w/ matt. The GF3/ radeon image quality thing is BS. GF3 is very nice- even at super high resolutions. One shouldn't even consider that anymore. Image quality is great for both cards.

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
December 27, 2001 11:17:27 PM

Oh, Bryan, just so u know, Intel is choosing Ati as their graphics leader. AMD is choosing NVidia.

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
December 28, 2001 1:06:20 AM

okay, here's another question. What's the difference between a geforce 3 and a ti 200 (the ti 500 is out of my pocket range; im only 17 and still in high school) The TI 200 i heard was overclockable to ti 500 speeds i hear, but how do i overclock a vid card? and what will i need to overclock that puppy? the only thing that really holds me back from getting a radeon is the driver issue. but now that seems not to be the biggest issue. like i said before, i'm mainly into dvd ripping and into some games; CS, max payne and thats about it..oh yea..quake when there's nothing to do. the image quality is equal between the two brands right? nvidia's geforce 3 and ati's radeon, i found online a retail radeon for 8500 and a gainward ti 500 for 305 and a regular geforce 3 for 199. what to get oh what to get
December 28, 2001 1:39:16 AM

The Gf3 is clocked higher- both teh RAM and GPU. This means higher performance. To OC to those speeds, you would need a better hsf. Once you replace those, you use Rivatuner to OC it. The image quality is very nice on both. Problem is that the retail R8500 costs around $300, and therefore is expensive.

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
December 28, 2001 3:08:32 AM

how much does a good enough HSF for a ti 200 cost to overclock that puppy to a ti 500? The ti 200 is not so expensive, about $170US or so and i hope a HSF wouldn't cost so much
December 28, 2001 3:18:31 AM

A good HSF for the graphics chip will probably cost around $20. Keep in mind that all Ti-200s aren't going to be immediately overclockable to Ti-500 level speeds; some may never be. The best thing to do is to tweak the card 2MHz at a time, both core and memory, until the system starts getting unstable. Then go back to the last stable setting. Memory overclocking is going to be more productive than core overclocking, so if you can only get an extra 10 or 15 MHz out of the core, don't worry about it. Getting 30-50 MHz out of the memory will be much more beneficial. I run my Ti-200 at 188 MHz core and 422 MHz memory (up from the stock 175/422) with no extra cooling, and it runs beautifully, and most importantly, its stable. Going higher may be possible with extra cooling, but its not worth the risk to me.
December 28, 2001 3:45:08 AM

Hmm, how high could I get a Ti200 w/ water cooling+peltier?

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
December 28, 2001 4:12:31 AM

well since not all ti 200's aren't overclockable then should i just get a regular geforce 3? It's in my pocket range and the retail radeon's are kinda pushin it.
December 28, 2001 1:58:03 PM

Yeah, go for a GF3. Just so u know, overclockin does void warranty.

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
December 28, 2001 2:00:44 PM

Sure, get a Geforce3, there's nothing wrong with it. If you're a hardcore gamer and don't care about DVDs too much then, by all means, get a GeForce3. It'll give you more bang for the buck in that case.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 28, 2001 2:07:29 PM

WTF "don't care about DVDs ". Dude, the GF3's image quality is great w/ DVD's. If u've never seen one, then don't talk.

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
December 28, 2001 2:16:30 PM

I'm not referring to quality, I'm referring to performance. Motion compensation alone is inadequate for high-performance multitasking while watching DVD playback. The Radeon 8500 rocks in this respect. I can watch DVDs without slowing down the system at all. I'm seen the DVD-playback of the GeForce2MX-400 and IT IS EXCELLENT. It's on par with the Radeon 8500. I have to admit, I have yet to find the advantages of temporal filtering.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 28, 2001 2:26:48 PM

Ok, when u watch DVD from DVD drive, you are tying up that IDE cable anyway. The GF3 will not slow u down- but anyway, I can't see why one would play a game or whatever while watching a DVD. Plus, remember, u had an MX version, and it was GF2- not GF3. GF3 is way more powerful.

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
December 28, 2001 2:34:22 PM

Well, not playing games but there are some interesting things you can do with a Radeon 8500 that you can't with a GeForce3. You can hook up a second monitor and use it just for DVD playback. Or hook up the Radeon 8500 to a TV! Then one person would be watching a DVD on TV while you would be playing a game on your monitor!!! Is that cool or what!!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 28, 2001 2:36:10 PM

First off, GF3 does have TV-Out- granted that it can only use one output at a time. Are u saying that an R8500 can display 2 totally separate screens?

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
December 28, 2001 3:13:50 PM

Yes! That's a pretty cool feature!!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
December 28, 2001 5:47:15 PM

I'm looking for a card that I can do video output with, so I need to have the TV out working along with a monitor. GeForce 3 boards don't allow for this at all? Hmm, helps narrow the decision a bit, tehe..
December 28, 2001 6:00:57 PM

Yup!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 29, 2001 12:23:14 AM

But at what performance cost. Also, imo, if u want better performance, and dual monitor, get a 2nd vid card.

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
December 29, 2001 12:27:50 AM

Quote:

But at what performance cost.

Nothing! Hehe! You get both cake and icing, ummm, delicious!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 29, 2001 12:51:12 AM

If an R8500 has to process 2 separate applications, ie two games, there will be performance loss. Think about it logically. One program won't magically have no impact. And good God man, are u on THGC 24/7- u respond 1 minute after I post! :)  J/k.

What if your life moved.....2 inches to the left?
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