3DMark2001 scores on my 230MHz Raedon 8500

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Guest

Guest
Well, I am still stuck with this OEM Radeon 8500 even tho I ordered the faster retail versions and I still haven't found any kind soul willing to send me the retail bios patch, but what can I say... *sigh*

In the mean time, I've been playing with 3D Mark2001 on this card and I am suprised to get a score of 7700. Is this a normal score or what? I have a GeForce Ti 500 which gives me a score of 7800 on the same system. It's kinda odd if you ask me. Again, this is the 230MHz core / 230MHz Memory version, not the 250MHz or the 275MHz which I wanted but got ripped off on!!!

System Specs:
Windows XP Pro (All the windowsupdate patches installed)
Disabled unneeded services and system tray icons
AMD Athlon XP 1800+
OEM Radeon 8500 230MHz/230MHz latest drivers (Unoffical)
Abit KR7A-RAID (Latest beta bios)
Not useing PCI latency patch or VIA 4-in-1 drivers
2 - 256MB OCZ Technology PC2400 (Maximum memory settings)
SB Audigy (Didn't install the drivers for it tho)

I'm still looking for the retail bios too, thanks ;)

Have a great new year everyone,
Mike.
 

Matisaro

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Mar 23, 2001
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The radeon8500 was HEAVILY optimised for benchmark apps, to the point of cheating in quake 3.

All of the benchmark roundups for the gf3 versus the r8500 I have seen have shown the following.


The radeon8500 wins 3dmark2001, but the lead dwindles the higher the resolution.

The radeon pretty much ties quake 3(with cheat on drivers it wins).

The radeon and the gf3 ti 500 are about equal in every benchmark I have seen with the exception of the above 2 and....
Unreal tournament, in which the gf3 KICKS THE LIVING CRAP, out of the radeon8500.

<A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/vidcards/ati/8500_revisited/index6.html" target="_new">http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/vidcards/ati/8500_revisited/index6.html</A>

as you can see, the radeon8500 looses ut with 80 fps to the gf3's 120+, thats 33% slower, a huge margin.(although both are playable lol).


The radeon8500 with the latest drivers can barely hold on to the gf3 ti 500 in performance, except in 3dmark2001.

here is a link to some of the benchmarks.

<A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/vidcards/ati/8500_revisited/" target="_new">http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/vidcards/ati/8500_revisited/</A>

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1558&p=3" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1558&p=3</A>


and others if you search google.




"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
 

Matisaro

Splendid
Mar 23, 2001
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*And by about equal I mean that one of two things happens.


The radeon loses by about 5-8 fps, or the gf3 ti 500 loses by less than 2 fps.


Look at all the benchmarks to see. It is strange that the only app the radeon8500 does well in is a benchmark app which is widely used.


And in an interesting note, the radeon8500 LOSES to the ti500 in max payne, which many of the 3dmark2001 tests are based on....interesting no?

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
 

Crashman

Polypheme
Former Staff
It makes perfect sense-3Dmark gives points for usable features. Many of these features are not on most games. Even if they were, using the features slows the card down a little, even if you like those features.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
 
G

Guest

Guest
So in conclusion, ATI cheats on benchmarks and I shouldn't expect real world performance in games to be anything near the excellent results the 3D Mark2001 benchmark scores may suggest. Bummer.

Intresting read... Also, in response to the Quake 3 cheat, didn't they remove that 'cheat' from the new drivers? And also, there are games that the Radeon 8500 actually does well on, besting even the Ti 500. Is a video cards performance in one game so overwhelming as to null the results we shold expect in other games and applications? Perhaps to those who play that one game it does, but, to those who don't, it doesn't.

So, shall I conclude that the 8500 is a complete pile of doggy doodoo like these reply's suggest or that most of these replys are based on biased opinions and pent up aggression which stems from a lack of resourcefulness when it comes to relieving oneself from the frustrations experienced when one sides with a product from one manufacturer and engages peoples who have sided with a product from another maufacturer?

These are the questions that, when answered faithfully, can bring peace between people with different preferences, budgets, and needs.

Scornful chatter about the merits of a video cards performance on a certian benchmark is all well and good if your an angst filled teenager who based his or her worth on the performance of a video card, but, when all you wanted to know was "Are these results normal?" then it really ends up sounding like someone is makeing whine with their sour grapes.

I still would like answers to my question, so to that end, let me try this again... Are the benchmark scores I recieved on 3D Mark2001 with my 230MHz Radeon 8500 a typical result other owners of the said card are getting? Let me know, and please, spare me the mindless moaning and b%$ching about who's video card is better then anothers, ok?

Thank you,
Mike.

P.S.: Incase you think I am biased or sided with ATI, keep in mind I own a Ti 500 as well and many other fine Nvidia based products and products from other companies who produce GPU's.

Competition is a good thing, be glad we have it.
 

AMD_Man

Splendid
Jul 3, 2001
7,376
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Agh, Matisaro is trapped in the past. There is no evidence that ATI is cheating on anything in any benchmarks. ATI is merely optimizing their drivers for specific engines (it was for specific games before but I believe they are no longer doing that). As the Quake3-engine is the most popular in games, ATI has optimized for the engine as a whole, as did nVidia. I hate to say it but Matisaro's reply was extremely biased against (while I guess I'm slightly biased with ATI, although I'm trying to be neutral in this respect). The "cheating" only occurred in a single revision of the drivers!! ATI is not "cheating" in the latest drivers. Matisaro and other nVidia supporters call this "cheating" although ATI themselves admitted it was a bug. Now not only are ATI cheaters but they are liars as well? This must be some awful company! Seriously, what do you think, did ATI "cheat" or was it a bug. It all depends on your perspective.

Your results for 3DMark2001 are about 10% lower than those of the retail version, so that's still pretty good for one running at 230MHz.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
 
that was good you really kicked them where the sun don't shine.

what you could do is go on madonion.com. I'm not sure if you have to sign in or not. You could match up your processor with your videocard and look at the results and see if you're in range or not. You might have to look up rather or not what your compareing is retail or oem. But worth to mention that site exists.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
 

Matisaro

Splendid
Mar 23, 2001
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Lol, whatever amd_man, turning down settings wihtout the users knowledge in one speccific game which happens to be the most popular benchmark of all, then removing this "feature" once the hardware reviews are finished, and they get caught.

Sounds like cheating to me.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
 

Matisaro

Splendid
Mar 23, 2001
6,737
0
25,780
As the Quake3-engine is the most popular in games, ATI has optimized for the engine as a whole, as did nVidia. I hate to say it but Matisaro's reply was extremely biased against


Oh really, then how come this "optimisation" only showed up in quake 3, and NONE of the other quake 3 engine games?


Perhaps its the fact that they were cheating.

The driver version this cheat occured on, and the only one which had it, JUST HAPPENED TO BE, the driver version sent to the HARDWARE REVIEWERS WITH THE CARDS.

ATI cheated, and there are tons of articles which discuss it, heres one of the better ones.

http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/vidcards/ati/8500/quack/


"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!