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Geforce 3

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  • Graphics Cards
  • Games
  • Geforce
  • Graphics
Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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January 15, 2002 9:14:19 PM

(I will use a lot of shortenings to save time and because you guys are all techy enough to understand. I hope)

I currently have an AMD K62 500MHz processor with 128MB RAM and a Voodoo4.

I am thinking about buying a Geforce 3 and I have a few questions.

1.considering the lowly specs of my PC will the T&L of the gf3 give a big performance boost in my games due to the fact that a lot of the work will be taken away from my processor? (I heard that gf2 and gf3 were good for low-spec pcs because of the hw t&l)

2. Or does the T&L hardware only get used in Hw T&L enabled games?

3. if so, how many games use hw t&l? is it a game thing or is it automaticaly used by every game that uses dx7or 8?

4. would the gf3 on an amd 500mhz improve games even if the hw t&l *isn't* used compared to a voodoo4 on amd500etc..

I am very tempted to get this card. Especialy as I offered my old one to my brother. And my game purchases are starting to make my voodoo 4 (and the pc in general) struggle.

to cut a short story even shorter - I want the card! is it worth it?

More about : geforce

January 15, 2002 10:00:33 PM

To cut my answer short: Yes!

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
January 15, 2002 11:00:47 PM

1.) Yes, some work will be taken from your processor but a GeForce3 on a K6-2 is a complete waste of money and the performance of a GeForce3. You probably won't see a difference between the Voodoo4 and the GeForce3 as your processor is a major bottlenecks. Your processor has un-pipelined FPU and therefore sux at games. IT'S A WASTE OF MONEY UNLESS YOU GET A NEW PROCESSOR AND MOBO.

2. Yes, Hardware T&L is only used in games that support it.

3.) It's game specific. With your processor, I doubt you'll get more than 15-20fps on any modern game even with T&L and the GeForce3.

4.) Nope, you'll see practically no improvement as your processor is SLOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW....

Your Voodoo4 isn't struggling as much as your processor. You'll be better off with a CPU and mobo upgrade. A GEFORCE3 on your current CPU is like burning money and throwing the ashes in the garbage.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
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January 15, 2002 11:22:04 PM

I'll (reluctantly) take your word for it.

What I think I'll do is buy the card and then 1 or 2 months later get a new processor and 'mobo'. Problem is I live in a place that may as well be third-world when it comes to upgrading computers - the Isle of Man. The lone Geforce3 on the shelf at GAME is about the only thing even remotely connected to PCs that i've seen on the whole island.

If I do decide to get the card before the cpu&mobo and it turns out to wee on the performance when I had the voodoo4 then words will be had with a certain person who's name sounds not unlike a brand of processor.

To add - I find it strange that modern games don't support the hwt&l since it's ridiculously easy to do - in directx it's a case of a few extra lines of code, and no changes whatsoever to other code. in fact it takes *extra* coding effort to write a directx thing that will *not* use hwt&l even if it's present. Directx just says "is this card capable of hwt&l?" and then it says "yes? ok I'll hand all the t&l work to it" or it says "no? ok then I [the directx drivers] will have to do it. but not the game. the game code will be exactly the same".

However (what you may have been thinking) it does take extra code to use some of the features of the hwt&l (but not to use it in it's basic form - "to do, in hardware, the transform and lighting calculations, thus taking this job away from the computer's processor [in other words the software - directx]"

sorry for such a long reply. I got carried away.
January 15, 2002 11:27:57 PM

You see, T&L isn't the only thing that has to be handled by the CPU. You're forgetting AI. Your CPU simply can't handle any modern games. BTW, which games do you play anyway?

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 15, 2002 11:30:24 PM

Quote:

If I do decide to get the card before the cpu&mobo and it turns out to wee on the performance when I had the voodoo4 then words will be had with a certain person who's name sounds not unlike a brand of processor.

lol, I'm not wrong. A Voodoo4 is bottlenecked with your processor. You should expect maybe twice or even more the performance with a 1GHz processor and your Voodoo4. Of course, the Voodoo4 is by no means top-of the line, but a processor will improve your performance more significantly in this case.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 15, 2002 11:32:54 PM

sorry to reply again. but you said sucky processor - not good.

my original point was - I *know* the processor is sucky, that is why I specificaly want a hwt&l card to take (grab) work away from this sucky processor. thus rendering the suckiness of the processor less important and less relevant to the running of the game.

Also I know that the processor will still have some influence (the non-3d relevant elements of the game, such as ai etc..) and I know that it will not let the gf3 perform to it's best. but atleast my whole system will be better than before. I don't care if the gf3 will not be used to it's full potential, it will be a long time before games themselves use that potential. I just care that I will get better framerates in my games (and gawp at the directx sdk examples and the nvida demos that I *know* will use hwt&l and some or all of the nifty features)

A good engine in a crap car is better than a crap engine in a crap car. the car will still look crap but it will go fast!
January 15, 2002 11:42:11 PM

I am not forgetting anything. I know about AI I know the cpu will still have work to do (i'm not dumb) but it will have *less* work to do. the balance of workload shifts over to the (more capable) graphics card, and I end up with a better system. not perfect, but better.

The games I play? - Castle wolfenstein (no, not the original) Black&White, Empire earth, Quake3, NFS2000, SC3000, and more (I am at work at the mo, I can't remember them all) and I often buy more games.
January 15, 2002 11:46:59 PM

But you don't understand, YOU WILL NOT see an improvement in frame rates as the processor is so slow that it will ALWAYS be the bottleneck, with or without T&L. With the games you listed, a GeForce3 will probably make no difference, as your processor is the bottleneck.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 16, 2002 12:10:58 AM

But *you* don't understand. the processor will be doing far less work when it's not doing the T&L (a big job) so it will be far less of a bottleneck. it will still be the bottleneck of course (I know that) but it will be nowhere near as bottlenecked as it is when it's doing the Hwt&l

I know what I am talking about.
January 16, 2002 12:23:10 AM

Trust me, I know what I'm talking about from experience! I have a K6-2 450 overclocked to 500 with a Voodoo4 in it. Without the Voodoo4, it was running off integrated graphics, with it, performance difference is neligible on the lowest res, the processor is the bottleneck. I would never get over 20fps on Quake III. On UT, it's the same story. If you look at the GeForce2 MX with a K6-2, it's the same story, not much of a difference in FPS, and it has T&L. And this is at the lowest res, so the bootleneck is NOT the graphics card. The K6-2 can't play games, no matter what graphics card you pair it up with. It has an unpipelined FPU so it's performance is light years behind that even the Pentium II in gaming performance. The K6-2 just wasn't designed to be a gaming champ. It's slow and there's nothing you can do about it other than get a new CPU. I could pair a GeForce100 with your processor and it still won't be significantly faster in gaming.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 16, 2002 12:32:32 AM

Quake3 is opengl which probably doesn't automaticaly use the HWT&L. have you compared the two on any of your directx games?

P.s. I get about 60fps on quake3 on the maximum res of my monitor (1280x1024) with all graphical options at maximum on an amdk62500 and a voodoo4. it is 3DNow, does that make a difference.

Look - we are both intelligent people (I hope) and we both think we know what we are talking about. But we both say different things. I suggest we wait for a second opinion to join in the thread. does the site manager (tom I think) ever join in? he seems to be a guru.
January 16, 2002 12:47:27 AM

Quote:

P.s. I get about 60fps on quake3 on the maximum res of my monitor (1280x1024) with all graphical options at maximum on an amdk62500 and a voodoo4. it is 3DNow, does that make a difference

lol, no, you don't get 60fps at 1280*1024 with a AMD K6-2 500MHz and a Voodoo4, I can guarantee that. Even a GeForce2MX wouldnt be able to handle that on a 1GHz processor. I can guarantee you that you get high teens to low 20s FPS at that res.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 16, 2002 12:49:24 AM

well it seems high.
January 16, 2002 12:55:16 AM

Press ~ then type in cg_drawfps 1 and press enter while playing a game in Quake III and tell me the numbers it usually rests on in QuakeIII. I would tell you to use the TimeDemo but as the demos aren't available in all versions of Quake III, this is the best way to measure FPS.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
January 16, 2002 1:02:04 AM

Will do. I am at work right now so I can't do it yet.

You are probably right about 20fps but it seems quite smooth to me.
!