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8500DV probs

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  • Graphics Cards
  • ATI
  • Graphics
Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
February 6, 2002 3:30:47 AM

When I emailed ATI support with these issues, in typical ATI fashion they claimed that their card/drivers were not at fault and instead blamed the problems on everything else including the Earths alignment with Mars and Venus, water table acidity in the North Eastern US, and this years poor rice crop in central Asia.

System
SOYO Dragon + MB
AMD 1.4G Tbird
256 Crucial PC2100 DDR
Radeon AIW 8500DV
SB Live 5.1 Platinum
IBM Deskstar 25G & 60G HDDs, WD 40G HDD
asst dvd/cdrw drives (no drivers installed)
OS Win98SE

Problems:
1. TV tuner reception is poor
2. ATI File Player accelerates playback of ATI VCR files and Mpeg2 files to 35-45 FPS.

Ive looked through this forum for posts of similar problems, but didnt see any. I have seen similar posts in other forums, but with no replies, so if you know something, read on.

Notes: This system doesnt have these problems with the ATI AIW 128 installed and NO, its not an OS problem! The ATI "required" minimum OS, Win ME, IS Win98SE with a few extra bells and chimes. If you dont know this, dont reply to this post. And yes, I have the latest BIOS and MB drivers

Attempted remedies for problems
1. Had cable company checked incomming cable signal. Checks good.
2. Replace SB 5.1 with SB Live 5.0. No joy
3. Removed sound card completely. No Joy
4. Reset ALL BIOS settings to slowest possible configuration (Per ATIs brillant recommendations)
5. Reset AGP to 1x
6. Rest memory aperture to 64
7. Several clean installs of OS, including install of OS with nothing but video card drivers
8. Installed various video codecs (DiVX, etc)
9. Multiple other combinations of BIOS settings, Drivers, hardware configurations, including nothing but a HDD, floppy and video card.
10. Wrapped computer case in tin-foil, spray painted house windows with reflective silver paint, severed all phone/power/TV cables and called local office of National Enquirer :tongue:

None of the above had any effect. Oddly, putting a converter box in series with the computer fixes the cable problem, but as you know, converter boxes tend to reduce the signals strength rather than amplify it. The box had no effect with the AIW 128 in place.

First, if any other AIW 8500DV users have had these problems, let me know. I hope to organize a mass emailing to ATI in hopes of getting a point across to them.

Second, I dont mean to be rude, but if you actually know something about computers and have a thought pertaining to these problems then by all means reply, but if you believe WinME or WinXP are totally new OS's, or you dont know what the BIOS is, then please dont reply


Thanx

Turpitt

Admit nothing, Deny evertyhing, Make counter-accusations- B.Gates final words to his lawyer prior to entering the courtroom

More about : 8500dv probs

February 6, 2002 3:37:33 AM

im just wondering if you have tried windows ME there must be some reason that 98 and 95 are not supported just an idea
February 6, 2002 4:33:12 PM

WinME and Win98SE are related in the same way that W2k and NT are. They're very different. There's a reason that companies support certain OSes and not others, it's not just a random statement that they put on the box.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Related resources
February 6, 2002 7:22:04 PM

Hmm, I have an ATI TV wonder + Radeon 8500 without any problem. ATI probably recommends Windows Me because it has superior WDM support. Win98SE also has WDM support but there are a couple of problems with it.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
February 6, 2002 9:33:26 PM

For AMD MAN

True, but ATI was originally going to ship the 8500DV with Win98 support. Looks like they dropped it not because of performance problems, but to curry favor with MS via the Gatesism of "force the populous to buy a new OS every year through non supportive hardware sales tactics. Force the harware manufacturers to play ball by refusing MS support unless the manufacturers support MS sales tactics." As greedy as he may be, Gates is a brilliant businessman. So, like all "ME or better" hardware, the 8500DV should run better on 98 than ME.

As for your system, the TV wonder+8500 vs 8500DV are totally different animals. The TV wonder still uses the analog tuner, not the solid state chip, while the GPU for the 8500 is clocked faster than the 8500DVs GPU. The rage theater chipset is the same, but then that hasnt given me any problems. On another front, TomsH did a review of the 8500DV in which they had the identicle problem, but they wrote it off as a PAL vs NTSC compatability issue. Unfortunately, they did this review prior to the card hitting the retail market. Had they done it after, they would have realised it wasnt a PAL/NTSC problem since a rather large number of US users (NTSC) have been having the same problem.

Anyhow, thanks for the post, if you think of or read anything else related to this problem, your input would be greatly appreciated.

Turpitt
February 6, 2002 9:47:39 PM

I somewhat disagree there. It's not Microsoft's fault that ATI didn't release Win98SE drivers, it's ATI's fault. With every Windows release, Microsoft makes more luxuries for programmers (I would know as I program as a hobby), and Microsoft makes programmers lazy. Why make several different drivers for the same product when you can make a single driver that can work on all relatively new Windows OSs? See my point. As an amateur programmer, I have fallen into this pit myself. For example, rather than creating my own HTML parser and viewer (which would take ages), I use the IE engine to allow viewers to view HTML help files. Without IE, most of my apps won't work! Without version 4.72 or higher of COMCTL32.DLL, most of my apps won't work. The COMCTL32.DLL ver.4.72 (Which comes with IE4.01 or above) for example contains many enhanced controls that you see in the interface (controls are standardized interface items that all programs use, such as buttons). Anyway, I think you get the picture, without Microsoft's new OSs and IE, it would takes me two or three as long to program the same thing. Programmers get paid a lot of money but they are lazy by default, hehe.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
February 7, 2002 2:55:49 AM

It is true that Microsoft makes more luxuries for programmers, however MS does the R&D + coding for these "luxuries" independant of its Windows developmental line. MS simply releases these as updates or new features in/for suceeding OS's. So, Im afraid I must disagree with you, since surely you must know that you need'nt waste money on the latest MS OS to get these new programing features. Not only does MS release their Programing Developement Tool kits with their succesive OS's, it also releases its developmental software as standalone updates, not only for current OS's, but also for its older OS's. However, you can not use the "update" features at MS's "kiddie" web site to access these, nor can you access them through the MS developers site. You must search through their rather extensive archives library to find these. I assume the reason for this is the theory that if an individual isnt savy enough to find the new products then the individual isnt smart enough to safely make use them.

Also you must remember that MS isnt out to make the programmers life easier, its out to make money. Period. Which means it must sell its product. Unfortunately, when a market for a product reaches saturation, i.e. the point at which sales income dimishes below continued R&D and production costs, then a producer/manufacturer no longer makes money. MS addresses this issue in a singular manner. By creating a "new" product to displace the old product from the same market. However, if the previous product is still adequate to market demands, then the new product will fail to displace it. Microsoft address THAT issue through several tactics. 1) Forced upgrades thru short term support. 2) Forced upgrades via short term collateral market support (MS is notorious for using strong arm tactics against the hardware manufacturers to impose their will there) 3) Desired upgrades via "apparent" succesive technological advances. 4 ) Obsolesance via marketing cooperatives, (another area where MS has been notorious in its strong arm tactics) 5)User dependancy via the secondary and tertiary software market, namely non OS application software, writen by non proprietary companies/programers...i.e. You!! :smile: When you write something not readily supported by an older OS, you force the potential "average" user to upgrade to (at a minimum) the oldest supporting OS. Note the use of the word "average". It denotes the typical user who is unable to find and employ the required drivers/codecs/bat/ini/dlls etc etc etc to allow his older OS to run the newer program. On that note, as a programer, certainly you realize that if you had the time and desire, you could write sufficeint supplemental/modified code to allow the latest "XP compatable only" programs to run even on win95. The "average" user, which as it happens is MS's target consumer, cannot do these things. But as you said, why bother and waste the time when you can pay MS to do the work for you.

Ultimately, as to whether MS strong armed ATI or not, only Bill Gates, K.Y. Ho(ATI CEO), God and the lawyers know for sure. I the strictest sense, there is no doubt, since for years, at the annual cooperative standards conference of PC manufactures, Bill Gates has been "setting" the direction hardware developement and manufacturing would take based on the expected demands of his current/next OS, which are, of course, based on MS's R&D.

(((((Which, by the way, is why we, the computer using general public are still saddled with archaic x86 series architecture even though the chipset brainset long ago tried to abandon it>>>But NOOO!! the boys at MS are too lazy to willfully deal with the changes a totally different architecture would demand))))

If the above is confusing to you, try one of my favorite analogies. Bill Gates relations to the PC Hardware manufacturing community is akin to a tire manufacturer telling an automobile manufacturer not only how tall and deep a vehicles rims must be, but detailing the spring rate, dampening rate of the shock absorbers, torsional resistance of the sway bars, ride hieght, wheel base, track, steering ratio, differential ratio, final HP, interior accesories, paint scheme and curb wieght of the car as well. Just so that they can continue to manufacture bias ply radials. In simple terms Bass Ackwards.

At this point in time, I would not hazzard to guess whether MS directly admonished ATI not to support Win98 or not. Simply because, after so many years of following MS's pattern of hostile tactics supporting rapid product turnaround, all of the manufacturers (including ATI) are no doubt used to the game, and therefore do not need to be threatend. Like Pavlov's dog, they now salivate when the bell is struck, regardless of whether the food is there or not.

All of which has absolutely nothing what-so-ever to do with the poor reception and accelerated play rates of the ATI AIW 8500 DV, solving which, is still the goal of this post.

Just one other quick note, as you know MS does not write their windows line of OS's for programers. It writes them for people who know nothing about computers. Adding a few lines of developmental code does not an new OS create. Win ME is still just Win 98
February 7, 2002 3:10:02 AM

GEEES PAL!!! TAKE A BRAKE FOR A WHILE!!!! MAN YOUR FINGERS HAVE TO BE HURTING AFTER WRITING THAT NOVEL.

OH AND I REALY THINK ITS THE OS!!!!!!! I DON'T CARE WHY YOU THINK ITS NOT, ITS PROBABLY THE OS!!! I WILL BLOODY GIVE YOU A COPY OF ME IF YOU WOULD JUST SHUT UP AND TAKE THE THING!!! Please be open to all possibilities. It always ends up that its exactly what you thought it wasn't. Thats just how computers are. No but realy, go to download.com download morpheus and search for ME upgrade, you will find a file thats about 420MB's. This file will upgrade your system automaticaly, ofcource its not exactly legal but come on, who follows copyright laws nowdays, anyway. OR if you prefer, you can search for XP pro final and you will find a hacked version of XP that doesn't need to be activated, its realy neat. Just do it, it wont hurt anything, it will atleast make it better. And ofcource I'm not giving this information from my professional standpoint, more as a former hacker and nerd, lol.

taylor
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
April 15, 2002 10:31:04 AM

Well, after 4 months ATI finally released a fix for all of these probs. Even though they still wont admit that the problem was the ravisent DVD drivers they used in their ver 7.x DVD player. Sadly, like so many manufacturers nowadays ATI is so intent on getting the next product out on the market that as soon as it ships, they'ye off to work on the newest next product and are to busy to provide support. This is especially anoying since, as many of you remember, ATI promised to provide better driver support with the 8500 series. Hmm, 4 months for a driver fix? If thats better driver support, I dont want to know what ATIs idea of poor support is.

Anyhow, for those of you who own ATI's and dont know this yet, there is an excellent support forum for ATI products @ http://www.rage3d.com/
April 15, 2002 6:42:02 PM

so is the problem fixed now? i notice lesser tv quality on my computer when ocmpared to my tv but i always just though that was because it's displaying it with mroe detail than a conventional television, maybe your problems were worse.

on another note, has anyone that own a 8500dv successfully been able to pause tv without the computer locking up?

repeat after me, we are all individuals!
April 15, 2002 7:44:02 PM

Quote:

Hmm, 4 months for a driver fix? If thats better driver support, I dont want to know what ATIs idea of poor support is.

Yup, that's GREAT support. It took nVidia 6 months to completely fix the BSODs under Windows XP!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
April 16, 2002 1:25:52 AM

A lot of folks have complained about 8500DV TV reception quality.
My quality is still poor when the cable is connected dircetly to the card. My cable company checked the signal, and it was fine. Apparently thats the problem though. Not only will a weak signal result in poor reception with the 8500DV, but a very storng signal will also result in a poor pictire. Try an attenuator (signal damper) to fix this problem, or if your signal is too weak try an amplifier. Remember, the 8500DVs tuner is a brand new digital unit, so its much less tolerant of signal variation the the analog tuners ATI was using previously. In my case, running the cable through the converter box my cable company has provided drops the signal power enough to provide a very nice picture.

Oddly, having the computer lock up when pausing the TV is one of the problems I havent had. Do you know what chipset you MB sports? Apparently the VIA chipsets have been causing some difficulty with the 8500DV.
!