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Are NVIDIA cards for professional use? I say NO

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2002 3:23:10 PM

if you use professional graphic applications (read CAD) and you have a Nvidia card, you can note when using a large model with more "stippled lines" a strong decrease of performance.
If you have not a professional application to test,then use Specviewperf and run ProCDRS03.bat enabling for the first three tests linestippling, adding -lp option.

you'll see the surprise: very poor performance.

This happens with the so called professional NVIDIA video cards too(quadro and DCC).

Ati 7500/8500 and all other prof cards (firegl, wildcat...)
don't feel any difference between normal lines and stippled lines.
It is not a driver problem , it is a hardware problem.

I tried to discuss this problem in the official OpenGL forum where many of Nvidia men browse, but no answer from nvidia underlining How this problem is not solvable.
http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/Forum3/HTML...


Now Why (when there is a test between,for example, FireGL2 and Quadro) Do nobody performs this test?

Is this a revelation?

Please try this test and inform all about this.
Thanks
February 12, 2002 5:15:43 PM

The best way to reach the authors here at THG is to email them. They do not regularly check the forum, and will not reply to your questions/comments.

Also, THG is not known for professional video card reviews. Perhaps you should email Anandtech or Ace's Hardware and ask them about this.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
February 12, 2002 10:05:36 PM

I'm glad someone else agree's that Nvidia cards are lacking when it comes to professional applications. 3dLabs and ATI produce cards that are far better for professional use than Nvidia. Perhaps when they design a card from the ground up for professional use instead of Modified GeForce gaming cards they will be able to approach the Wildcats and FireGL's.

Blah, Blah Blahh, Blahh, blahh blah blahh, blah blah.
Related resources
February 12, 2002 10:21:51 PM

I wonder if flamethrower has read this heheheheh :-)
February 12, 2002 11:07:32 PM

where do I get specview perf? Also, on that forum there were some possible solutions suggested......

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
February 13, 2002 4:55:39 AM

Of course the Wildcat is gonna kick nvidia's butt. THe card is the size of a small house, has 8 billion megs on ram, Can push more polygons than god and can grant wishes to dying children.
OK so I exagerate. But seriously, the card is expensive, so ya get what ya pay for. The Quadro DCC costs around 700$. The Wildcat 3 5110 costs about 1,300$. So trying to compare the two is crazy. Thats like comparing a Ferrari to a Hyundai, and then wondering why the Hyundai sucks so bad.

Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
February 13, 2002 6:43:24 AM

Quote:

The best way to reach the authors here at THG is to email them. They do not regularly check the forum, and will not reply to your questions/comments.

thank you for suggestion I'll try to email them. Maybe a forum is the best way to have an answer.

Quote:

Also, THG is not known for professional video card reviews.

oh yes but I rember a beutiful review that compared FireGL2 with Nvidia Quadro, and for me Tom's Hardware has always represented a point of referrement.

Quote:

Perhaps you should email Anandtech or Ace's Hardware and ask them about this.

sincerely I belive to have any chance in an answer, but I'll try..ty

Quote:
where do I get specview perf?

http://www.specbench.org/gpc/opc.static/opcview.htm

Quote:

Also, on that forum there were some possible solutions suggested......

belive me if there was a solution, on OpenGL forum (I linked up) it will be there, because Nvidia programmers look onto..always.

Quote:

Of course the Wildcat is gonna kick nvidia's butt. THe card is the size of a small house, has 8 billion megs on ram, Can push more polygons than god and can grant wishes to dying children.
OK so I exagerate. But seriously, the card is expensive, so ya get what ya pay for. The Quadro DCC costs around 700$. The Wildcat 3 5110 costs about 1,300$. So trying to compare the two is crazy. Thats like comparing a Ferrari to a Hyundai, and then wondering why the Hyundai sucks so bad.

yes But all performance are balanced and proportional,
instead in this particular function (not particular at all) the performance are to compare with a card without GPU!
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
February 17, 2002 2:51:48 AM

Subject: Re: Are NVIDIA cards for professional use? I say NO

I was just browsing through the forum before posted some questions and this thread is along the lines as what I am thinking.

I am in the market for a new card that will do video, animation and CAD well(in that order). Games are nice but not as important to me.

I am struggling with finding information on a good card that will do what I am looking for. I just read a THG article "OpenGL Workstation Power - Graphics Cards for the Professional User" And it gave me the feeling that going with one of these cards you are paying extra cash for research and development. The costs that usually get handed down to corporations. Besides a little work that I may bring home I am just a hobbyist with a small budget. As with most consumers I am just trying to find the best bang for the buck.

At first I was seriously considering the "AIW radeon 8500DV" then after digging in to see what was supported with some of the CAD vendors and MAYA it appears that the best card may be the "ELSA SYNERGY III NVIDIA QUADRO2 MXR". Or atleast this is a card that they support. Which just means that they have been tested with there product and which cards get tested is usually up to the video card vendor and of course they are going to want there high end models to be tested with a high end Video, animation or CAD package. I just am hoping to find a card that will do the job.

But now I read this thread and don't know anymore. Any one have any info or suggestions on a good card in the $300 range that they have good experience with.
February 17, 2002 3:00:34 AM

Why not get a GF3 (or GF4 Ti when it comes out), and mod it to Quadro? Will be basically the same.

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
February 17, 2002 4:56:01 AM

Well now think the FireGL 8800 based off the R8800 is lowend they. The FireGL 4 is a damm monster.

I Love playing on my GameCube or PC cuz there both ATi powered... :smile:
February 17, 2002 3:14:35 PM

Ferrari, woundn't buy one even if I could afford it. Italian engineering. Take a Porche (great German engineering) or a TVR if you want a super car. The Porche absolutley kicks that Italian rubbish in terms of performance (no this is not an AMD/INTEL analogy).

Charlie


High Clockspeed, water cooler, Geforce 4, a Jedi craves not these things..

Never spit into the wind. Never eat yellow snow.
February 17, 2002 3:51:16 PM

Gp F50- that's my favorite car!

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
February 17, 2002 4:56:41 PM

Ran specperf....at the current moment I'm trying to suppress my anger at WinXP. The thing lowered my scores in some cases by 2x compared to win2k/NT!!! Damnit! I inititally noticed slowness in 3d s max, but now, omg!

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
February 17, 2002 5:01:03 PM

Kudos to Ati: http://www.specbench.org/gpc/opc.data/procdrs-perf.html

Too bad there are no maxtreme like drivers for 3d s max. Kinda annoyed the Quadro DCC wasn't in there..... BTW, Quadro 4 will be better than those b/c first it supports hardware lines (unlike DCC), and it's a lot more powerful.

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
February 17, 2002 11:25:40 PM

Question flamethrower who makes the quadro 4( I think ELSA and they have financial problems) and who cares I mean look how easy it is to convert the gf 4 to a quadro anyone who buys a quadro 4 is being ripped-off think about it.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
February 18, 2002 12:49:20 AM

What is involved in mod'ing a GF3 to a quadro?
February 18, 2002 3:05:29 AM

Well nvidia will have someone. Maybe VisionTek nvidia's recent company they are in bed with.

I Love playing on my GameCube or PC cuz there both ATi powered... :smile:
February 18, 2002 3:06:37 AM

Visontek will be teh new carrier of Quadro, and the reason why they r available is cause companies don't wanna mess w/ gf to make em quadro. That and also a real quadro is more powerful than a modded one. Katmando, there r 2 ways to mod a gf 3 into quadro. They both work on the same principal- telling making the pci id that of a Quadro. U can dl Rivatuner and use it to patch the drivers so that they ignore the pci id telling it it's a gf, and it just tells it to install quadro drivers. However, the 27.20 and higher drivers have antiprotection which hasn't been looked at yet by Unwinder, so the highest driver u can currently install w/ that is 23.11. The other approach is hardware modification. This takes moving 2 resistors, and changes the pci to that of a Quadro DCC. U can install any driver u want w/o patching it then. bad part is if u mess up, or have future probs, u have no warranty w/ a hardware mod (unless u of course fool them). Tell me if u r interested in hardware mod, and what vid card u have exactly, so I can tell u which resistors need to be moved (use 10K resistors).

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
February 18, 2002 3:20:23 PM

Having a background in animation; I've found nvidia's cards to be the best bang for the buck. I've had no issues with hardware; some driver releases do have some visual errors though. But visual errors are easily remedied by simply not using those releases. Having worked with 2 major packages; Discreets 3dsMax and Alias|Wavefronts Maya; I've found great success with every generation of the geforce.
ATI's own cards (not the fireGL series) though architecturally superior to their nvidia counterparts on paper are just not suitable. I've hit all manarisms of visual errors with them, from windows rendering totally empty;components in the scene disapeering randomly; system freezes; text missing from hypershade/graph; to slow slow SLOW throughput during animation.
I'd had better luck with a standard gf3 ti500 than I did with any ATI cards (for under 700 dollars; the fireGL series is excellent for CAD; but ATI didn't do the R&D on those cards)
As far as softquadros and hacked quadros not being as powerful as the 'legitimate article'; the only real difference after the mod is the clock speed is typically higher on elsa's gloria series of cards.

That Ole Russell
February 18, 2002 3:27:08 PM

It's not only teh clock speed, there are some tiny, tiny hardware differences, b/c there are some other resistors that are actually in different places. I totally agree w/ u man, and the Maxtreme drivers really make the quadros suitable for 3d s max.

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
February 18, 2002 3:56:27 PM

Yes; the resistors in question are simply device ID resistors. The chips themselves though are the same animal.
Its like a ti200 vs a ti500; no architectural difference; though due to resistor placement/connections; they ID as 2 seperate beasts.

That Ole Russell
February 18, 2002 11:20:08 PM

Not exactly...there are a few other resistor differences.....

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
February 19, 2002 12:19:59 AM

Thanks for the mod info. After reading your suggestion in your first responce I went to see what I could find. All I can say is unbelievable, Yeah so what is it not as powerful as a real quadro. Like I said I am just a hobbiest, If I was making money with this a few extra bucks would bother me. Plus from what I read out there the difference is not by much.

Yeah I would love to here more on the hardware mod. I currently have a MSI Geforce2 TI.

From what I understand is I can mod the Geforce3 to a quadroDCC. I am a bit confussed if has to be just the geforce3 or either of the ti's 200 or 500 can be done and if it can. Would you recomend I go with the Geforce3 or the Ti 500?

Thank you
February 19, 2002 12:34:57 AM

I would reccomend a standard GF3, just to make sure all the resistors are in teh right place, and mean the right thing. I would reccomend either visiontek or leadtek card, since both follow reference design, and have been modded succesfully. here's how to do it:http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=993766262

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
February 19, 2002 12:37:02 AM

oh yeah, and if u use 3d s max, use maxtreme driver cause in most cases it provides better performance and image quality is much better than that of opengl.

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
February 20, 2002 8:27:55 PM

The guts of the chipset are the same. nvidia has claimed to have made a few changes on the quadro4 however; so who knows. They also claim that the wildcat 6120 is no match for it. We shall see. I wouldn't be surprised if the A|W maya/3d studio max performance vastly exceeds the wildcat 6120; but not likely to in the CAD market.

That Ole Russell
February 20, 2002 8:39:32 PM

I think NV's main aim is the 3d s max type market though, cause in there, the Quadro series is awesome. I know there are the powerdraft, but I feel it's just a by the way thing.

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
!