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The R8500 Speed Boost is HERE (sort of)!

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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March 2, 2002 4:20:25 PM

Well, for Win9X at least. There are new leaked R8500 drivers for Win2k/XP but they don't seem to contain the OpenGL fix. <A HREF="http://www.maxreboot.com/newspro/viewnews.cgi?newsid101...," target="_new">Here</A>, however, you can download the 9017 beta drivers which reportedly improve the R8500's performance by up to 40% in OpenGL on average (It may raise the minimum FPS in games by up to 400%, from the graphs I've seen).

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

More about : r8500 speed boost sort

March 2, 2002 4:40:34 PM

nVidia is still the king of graphics cards, even an OLD geforce 3 ti500, or a OC'd ti200 beat out the R8500, and now theres a geforce 4 ti4600 thats WAY faster! Sigh, if only i had an extra four hundred bucks.

its not that intel CANT make a good processor, its that they just dont try
March 2, 2002 5:48:45 PM

Nvidia may be the best to you but according to the world as a whole ATI is the market leader.
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March 2, 2002 5:57:09 PM

Quote:

nVidia is still the king of graphics cards, even an OLD geforce 3 ti500, or a OC'd ti200 beat out the R8500, and now theres a geforce 4 ti4600 thats WAY faster! Sigh, if only i had an extra four hundred bucks.

That's not quite true anymore. I'd like to see a review with the new drivers. I'm guessing the R8500 is significantly faster than the GF3Ti500. All for a good $160USD or $289 CDN! Plus, you can always overclock the R8500.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 2, 2002 6:45:08 PM

You've seen graphs? What graphs? Where are they?

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
March 2, 2002 6:48:12 PM

I posted one here a while ago done using the 6043 drivers.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 2, 2002 6:48:17 PM

AMD_Man im sorry but i must disagree with you on this. Maybe new drivers have put distance between it and the Ti200, but i cannot believe that it is faster than a Ti500, especially when OC'd. Cause the Ti's im sure can be OC'd more.

its not that intel CANT make a good processor, its that they just dont try
March 2, 2002 6:55:21 PM

Don't listen to this troll, he's been acting that way since he came here.
Personally I am glad to see ATI finally standing up as the Canadian supplier of graphics. They've truly shown value and performance in one package just like AMD!
Although Nvidia still leads in graphical edges, ATI has done a lot by itself and has advanced. Perhaps it will dominate them, all I know is they both are awesome!

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
March 2, 2002 7:05:54 PM

I know he's a troll...

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 2, 2002 7:08:56 PM

Screw you both, what i have said is fact, and the only place where Ati currently dominates is in the laptop graphics market.

its not that intel CANT make a good processor, its that they just dont try
March 2, 2002 7:10:36 PM

I agree partially on that sentence. TRUE they currently have a jaw-dropping mobile card for sure, FALSE they are not market leading or not as good as Nvidia.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
March 2, 2002 7:16:12 PM

When i say dominate, i mean in performance, and the mobile radeon 7500 is the leader. The best nVidias got is the geforce2 go which is not as good.

its not that intel CANT make a good processor, its that they just dont try
March 2, 2002 7:16:24 PM

Actually, you're wrong, ATI had 42% of the U.S. retail market in 2001. ATI may currently not have the fastest GPU but they have the best bang for the buck right now. For $289CDN or $160 USD, you can get an R8500 that will outperform anything nVidia has for the same price.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 2, 2002 7:22:43 PM

what are you talking about, the subject is mobile GPU's and the mobile radeon 7500 is the best.

its not that intel CANT make a good processor, its that they just dont try
March 2, 2002 8:15:49 PM

I wish it would be that cheap in Canada, the cheapest I can find it here is 431.00$ plus taxes (here 15% taxes, it bites). Can't believe something Canadian get priced up that high, might worth driving down to the US and buy one there. For real.

So far the best priced <A HREF="http://www.microbytes.com/vid.htm" target="_new">place</A> where I live.

<font color=red>Handsome A7V133 looking for long term relationship with a XP CPU. Prefer non smoker.</font color=red>
March 2, 2002 8:25:39 PM

It is that cheap in Canada. Go <A HREF="http://www.canadacomputers.com" target="_new">here</A>. They have the retail Radeon 8500 for $289 and the OEM Hercules Radeon 8500 for $229.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 2, 2002 8:26:39 PM

I was referring to the desktop market in that post.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 2, 2002 8:35:29 PM

can anyone give a tough estimate of how the radeon 7000 or 8000 series would rank in fps under opengl(in a game like counterstrike) compared to the other nvidias?

repeat after me, we are all individuals!
March 2, 2002 9:06:21 PM

Counterstrike wouldn't be a very good example because if you could disable the FPS cap in Counterstrike (I believe you can but I don't know how), then the R7500, R8500, GF3, GF4 would all be scoring from 200-400fps. Counterstrike is a very old game and you really don't need more FPS in that game.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 3, 2002 2:46:07 AM

Get out of my Graphics Section... Now you, Troll !!!! Before i send a request to Fredi...

THGC, saving 1 pc user from buying a GeForce4 MX at a time.
March 3, 2002 2:49:13 AM

oh sorry, at first glance i thought you were referring to AMD Man, and i like that guy and was about to defend him!

"dude your getting a dell", is that kid trying to say he wants to stick his 'dell' in you?
March 3, 2002 3:15:57 AM

son of a biatch! I feel so ripped off now! When I need something again I'll look it up and might just drive, I'm in Montreal Que, they're in Ont.

Now I'm debating over getting a Noblesse case and an Antec 400W PS, or just getting the PS. Might get both if I sell my case

<font color=red>Handsome A7V133 looking for long term relationship with a XP CPU. Prefer non smoker.</font color=red>
March 3, 2002 5:39:08 AM

i got a geforce card and damn it suck ass, next card im getting is a ATI for shiggidy... ATI is the way to go
March 3, 2002 12:14:17 PM

Well correction the best nvidia has is the geforce 4 to go and the radeon 7500 still beats it in price and performance and most importantly in power management. Its starting to become obvious your knowledge of the graphics card world is not much. The the TI 500 is way overpriced compared to the performance the r8500 produces, and imagine ATI still haven't released their performance 9048 drivers yet.
March 3, 2002 12:39:08 PM

9048? The 9017 Win9X/Me contain the OpenGL fix although, reportedly, there are a couple of texture bugs in it left. The 6037 Win2K/XP drivers don't contain the fix yet, and the 6043 that do contain them aren't available to the public yet.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 3, 2002 4:17:38 PM

listen to the resident forum guides...they know more unless you can prove them wrong...It's pretty obvious you
hate ATI and just want to troll around...
Nvidia sure makes great cards no doubt about that but ATI
isn't falling back either and they will have answers for Nvidia's cards coz if not what's the point of running a business if you can't compete...the day ATI get owned by Nvidia is the day you can be the Troll of Trolls
March 3, 2002 9:48:36 PM

The reason I say 9048 is because there are some tech demos floating around the net such as the kreed tech demo that requires the 9048 drivers set to function properly and fast, so the reason for mentioning it.
March 4, 2002 12:38:27 AM

Hey, on that site it doesn't say Windows XP drivers anywhere... do they work with it or should I stick with the latest one on ATI's site?

Thanks
March 4, 2002 2:27:21 AM

Don't make me bring out my Quadro into this:)  j/k. Somehow though, I do not believe there will be a HUGE difference, as there really never has been, even w/ NVidia (by huge I mean huge ass, as in suddenly R8500 starts raping Ti4600).

Sig of the week.
March 4, 2002 3:14:46 AM

Just got my system today, a dragon plus MB, 256 DDR, amd 1800xp and radeon 8500. Ran a 8500 on 3dmark2001, that's smoking. Using the 6025 drivers.
March 4, 2002 4:10:54 PM

The Radeon 8500 is currently listed as the #1 card on MadOnion.com (unless the GF4 Ti's have been listed), above the Ti200 and Ti500. You can't really argue against that.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Don't step in the sarcasm!
March 4, 2002 4:25:05 PM

Quote:

Don't make me bring out my Quadro into this:)  j/k. Somehow though, I do not believe there will be a HUGE difference, as there really never has been, even w/ NVidia (by huge I mean huge ass, as in suddenly R8500 starts raping Ti4600).

Lol, your Quadro is an OpenGL monster. No mainstream gaming card can compete. There is a huge difference but the R8500 isn't even close to Ti4600 OpenGL scores. It should be at or just over Ti4200 now, I believe.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 4, 2002 5:36:56 PM

When we see benchs, and it does do that, you can consider that this is obviously one of the most value based card ever. Especially with the rebates flowing around the web, and it should be priced much below the Ti4200!

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
March 6, 2002 11:26:21 PM

My Radeon8500 outperforms my friend's GF3Ti500 on systems that are otherwise identical.

Must be I got a special card or something. That's probably it. =)

So you never answered when I asked you earlier... What's a troll, Mr. Sucks?

"Put your desk in the corner." - Stephen King
March 7, 2002 1:16:53 PM

Quote:

When we see benchs, and it does do that, you can consider that this is obviously one of the most value based card ever.

I agree with that! Show me a bench where it beats the 4200 and I'll be buying one no question. I would be very impressed if they managed to eek out that much more performance with just drivers.

Makes you wonder WTF they've been doing all this time? All this time they've had a GPU that could run like a race horse but they saddled it with a 300 pound fat guy to work the reins (does that analagy make sense? lol :wink: )

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A newbie is only a newbie for as long as you allow him to be.
-Anonymous Veteran
March 7, 2002 1:26:34 PM

Quote:

Makes you wonder WTF they've been doing all this time? All this time they've had a GPU that could run like a race horse but they saddled it with a 300 pound fat guy to work the reins (does that analagy make sense? lol )

ATI has been working a lot recently with game developers such as Cramack and they're ATI find and fix problems in their drivers. DirectX performance still needs some fixing, but I think the R8500's OpenGL is nothing short of amazing for the price.

As I said in another post. ATI isn't done optimizing their drivers. They're rumoured to be working on improving Smoothvision right now and hopefully DirectX performance after that.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 7, 2002 1:48:59 PM

Personally I wish they weren't so complicatint with their feature naming...
Their AA is more complex to choose, and I prefer Nvidia's simple choices of OFF,2X,4X,Quincunx AA.
I also hope they get Truform fixed up and more supporting.

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
March 7, 2002 2:25:10 PM

What's smoothvision and what games use it? I would think directx would be next on their to-do list since its so popular.


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A newbie is only a newbie for as long as you allow him to be.
-Anonymous Veteran
March 7, 2002 2:32:24 PM

SmoothVision is ATI's programmable FSAA. As far as I know, no programs actually utilize SmoothVision's programmable nature. SmoothVision does however also function as a static FSAA. It performance sucks right now. ATI should be able to improve performance by optimizing the sampling algorithms.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 7, 2002 11:30:56 PM

Ever tried Serious Sam with it on?
You tell me if that Shotgun doesn't remind you of something strictly in bedtime at night...

--
For the first time, Hookers are hooked on Phonics!!
March 8, 2002 1:29:09 PM

OK AMD_Man you may have sold me. While I think I'll wait to see benchmarks with the new drivers, the price keeps dropping on the 8500 making it far too tempting to pass up. When it was over $200 I was getting a Gainward Ti200 all the way (and OC it to 500 levels), but then the GF4's were announced and I thought I'd wait and get a Ti4200. But if the 8500 can beat the Ti4200 in performance then the decision is a no brainer for me. If being the operative word, I'll wait and see...

But I'm still gonna start looking at prices/brands. Which brings me to my question, or a complaint rather. With nvidia cards its always clear cut who makes the card (Gainward, Leadtek, etc) but not so with Radeons. They all say "powered by ATI" but that doesn't mean "made by ATI." So how do you know that a low price on an 8500 is a good deal and not actually a crappy card by some no-name maker?

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A newbie is only a newbie for as long as you allow him to be.
-Anonymous Veteran
March 8, 2002 1:35:40 PM

Quote:

OK AMD_Man you may have sold me. While I think I'll wait to see benchmarks with the new drivers, the price keeps dropping on the 8500 making it far too tempting to pass up. When it was over $200 I was getting a Gainward Ti200 all the way (and OC it to 500 levels), but then the GF4's were announced and I thought I'd wait and get a Ti4200. But if the 8500 can beat the Ti4200 in performance then the decision is a no brainer for me. If being the operative word, I'll wait and see...

The 6043 driver is only the first step to getting the Radeon 8500 to Ti4200 performance. Only OpenGL has been improved so far. There's still D3D and FSAA left to improve. But you'll get that performance as soon as ATI releases their official drivers.

Quote:

But I'm still gonna start looking at prices/brands. Which brings me to my question, or a complaint rather. With nvidia cards its always clear cut who makes the card (Gainward, Leadtek, etc) but not so with Radeons. They all say "powered by ATI" but that doesn't mean "made by ATI." So how do you know that a low price on an 8500 is a good deal and not actually a crappy card by some no-name maker?

Anything "Powered by ATI" is slower than anything "Made by ATI". Get yourself a retail ATI Radeon 8500 that's "Made by ATI".

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
March 8, 2002 2:56:10 PM

OK, its just a pain tho, cuz on pricewatch all the 8500s say ATI as the brand even if its just "powered by" not made by. Also, some made by ATIs dont say it, they say powered by, but the picture is of a made by ATI retail box. Its all very confusing.

Care to recommend a vender? Newegg as usual or is there somewhere else you'd recommend?

Also, I've read you can buy OEM and then download the retail drivers and get the same perfomance, is that true? I know some OEM cards have slower clock speeds, but are there any OEM that are = to retail (or can be OC'd to retail?)

thanks =)

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A newbie is only a newbie for as long as you allow him to be.
-Anonymous Veteran
March 8, 2002 3:05:31 PM

Quote:
Also, I've read you can buy OEM and then download the retail drivers and get the same perfomance, is that true? I know some OEM cards have slower clock speeds, but are there any OEM that are = to retail (or can be OC'd to retail?)

Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. I got one of the first OEMs, and was unable to OC it to the Retail specs with a BIOS flash that adjusted the Voltage (at least I think it did. Anyone know a program that lets you monitor and posibly overclock GPU voltages?). Some of the OEMs were made with slower memory.

The new Retail ATI cards are rumored to have even better memory, so you might be able to go to speeds in excess of 310/310, but most Retails have been able to go to 300/300 easily from 275/275.

My sugestion, is if you aren't sure, post the link and ask someone here.

As for vendors, I've used Mwave, Googlegear, and Newegg and they are all good. I've been browsing one called <A HREF="http://www.essencompu.com" target="_new">Essential computer Inc</A> that has had good prices on some things, and didn't have a bad review by the few who went there, but I haven't done anything with them personaly.

I do not like it Tom you see,
I do not like green PCB.
March 8, 2002 3:18:34 PM

The latest retail Radeon 8500s now use 3.3ns RAM instead of 3.6ns RAM. This significantly improves their overclockability.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
!