Hidden Cost in new Nivea Cards?

macer

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Mar 4, 2002
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Technological change makes buyer's remorse unavoidable these days if you let it bother you. Look at all the unhappy people who recently paid high prices for the Nivea Ti 500 when they heard about the new card.

Today I almost got buyer's remorse even though I'm delighted with my new desktop. First, I read on Tom's Hardware about the new AMD CPUs that will soon appear. Then I read Nivea's next-generation circuit board that will be out any day. Then I'm surprised to read about power source requirements on Nivea's new card. If you have to upgrade that along with a pricey video card, I'd think twice.

My new AMD l700+ from Falcon NW which I really like for the sub-$1,000 I allocated has a 250 watt-power source, 512 memory a 40 MB hard drive and the current Nivea board which features a 64 MB GF 2 and Dolby digital sound capable of handling 6 speakers onboard. Am I upset? No. It convinces me that my original approach was a good one when teamed with the unusual upgrading strategy I'm contemplating.

I noticed that very little of the difference in price between this machine ($975) and a $2,700+ baby consisted on things that directly affected performance. Both had 512 K memory. The performance advantage in the expensive machine, which even had the same circuit board, came mainly from a GF 3 Ti card which most games don't need yet and from a AMD 2000+ CPU, whose marginal advantage over my own will look razor thin two years from now. The rest of that l,700 extra dollars went into CDRW, 5.0 speakers (I have Klipsch 2.1s which I love, a big monitor and a bigger hard drive). Both come with XP. I think I'd feel far more remorseful if I spent the big bucks.

My buying strategy was to buy as much performance as I could get for $1,000, sacrificing other peripherals and going with a somewhat older video card temporarily but one which would do fine for some time. Common wisdom says you must spend a lot to avoid getting outdated but I wonder. Coming from my old machine (a PII 250 with 64 MB RAM and an 8 MB Matrox G-200 card) this baby screams. And for all the talk about "framerates" and the GF 2 being outdated, I'll tell you it ran Serious Sam 2 without a hiccup. I gather it's used to test newer cards. I suspect my machine would handle Medal of Honor too. It's one of the few shooters I look forward to, since I prefer strategy, wargames and RPGs more often. Like most gamers, I've got a backlog of unplayed stuff and don't need a card that can handle software that utilizes new 8.0 or 9.0 stuff the instant it appears.

Sounds to me like the GF4 4200 will suffice for that assuming power requirements are ok. It'll be cheaper too by the time it's needed. I get the impression power requirements are going to go up in the future--something to keep in mind when you are buying a new machine.

Given the expense of external peripherals, the 2nd part of my strategy may seem nuts because that's how I thinking of going for storage or CDRW when I need them. Since they can be used with more than one machine I think it can make them cheaper in the long run. My laptop would benefit for now.

Down the road, instead of having to buy a power-supply and a video card to keep up while everything else is dated, I hope to repeat my "concentrate on performance for a grand or so" strategy. When you can get that much that cheap it seems silly to put a ton of money into the latest video card plus power supply to match, when you can easily get an up-to-date circuit board, CPU to match, and latest version of windows for not much more than double what you'd be spending anyway. In fact, that Falcon pedigree with a GF4 200 card would probably close the money gap substantially--or I can keep it and link two pretty decent machines. Meanwhile those external peripherals pass right along and continue to be usable with the laptop. They'd have considerable marketablity as well if desired.

I've do have a few questions:

1. In the long run, should it be USB 2.0 or firewire for peripherals? (My new machine has firewire but but I can easily add USB2 capability to it and the laptop when it's needed).

2. External disk drive or external zip drive? Which do you recommend?

3. Is it a good idea to copy your operating system to such external storage?

4. If I did that using Windows XP from my new desktop and used it as the starting drive with my laptop (Windows 98), would I have a problem?

5. Do you think this is a good approach for driving and upgrading? (Bear in mind that I'd have no idea how to build my own machine and I'm a bit tech wary).
 

lagger

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a few of my thoughts on this .. if you have firewire or will be getting usb 2.0 consider an external cdrw instead of a zip or floppy.

copying your OS to the external device is pretty much pointless and probably won't work, if using win xp when you get your newer machine eiother call and activate for that machine explaining that you have erased and sold the old one or more likely the newer one will arrive with it's own OS.. in any case running the os off the external drive might not work and certainly would be slower. you might want to network the new xp machine with the win 98 machine hthis is fairly easy and allows file sharing printer sharing and more ..

as for Medal of Honor .. hate to break it to ya but it is not RPG or strategy .. it is a first person shooter like serious sam

lagger

<b><font color=blue>Checking under my north <font color=red> AND</font color=red> south bridges for trolls</font color=blue>
 

FatBurger

Illustrious
Holy cow, Nivea has gone from beauty products to video cards? I think you mean nVidia :tongue:

1. If you can have both, then why not wait and see? Once you get a firewire or USB2.0 device, you can then add support for it. I don't see any reason to make sure you can support something you don't own yet.

2. I'd get a USB2.0 external CD-RW. For someone with a laptop, it makes a lot of sense. You can get 24x Sonys for $180 or so, probably cheaper.

3. You'll need the installation disk of course. As far as ghosting to a CD or hard drive so you can restore at any time, I don't think it's worth it. Why? Because you have to put it on another hard drive (won't fit on a CD). Might as well just leave it and backup the important stuff. Unless you don't want to ever be forced to reinstall Windows for some reason, I think that's the way to go.

4. No, you shouldn't.

5. I'm not sure what you mean by that.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Don't step in the sarcasm!
 

HolyGrenade

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What do you expect, he baught the pc from nivea.

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G

Guest

Guest
Here's the reality of it all. You're going to need to replace your motherboard, CPU, and memory periodically. Just get used to it. It doesn't need to be upgraded ANY earlier than 12 months and I generally wait 18 months. Any upgrade you would make within 18 months isn't going to get you anything appreciable in performance. A motherboard, CPU, memory upgrade should cost you no more than $350, $400 if you want 512 megs of memory. That upgrade will take care of 80% of the "new" technology that you should care about, since it's mostly on the motherboard in the first place.

So what's left? Hard disk and video card. I simply over spend on a hard disk, which today means shelling out $250 to get a 120 gig Western Digital with 8 meg buffer. It's as fast or faster than 90% of the SCSI drives out there in a single user PC. You will not need an upgrade for 2 years as a result.

Video card? I DO NOT get the most expensive thing. JUST SAY NO! Trust me. The 10% performance improvement is not worth it. You know what the best card is out on the market (in my humble opinion)? It's a Gainward GeForce 3 TI200 128 meg Golden Sample. It's $175 and can be overclocked to speeds exceeding a TI500 without any extra cooling. A GeForce 4 or $250 ATI 8500 is unnecessary (unless you want a DVI connecter and then you gotta do it). But if you spend $175 now and there's something faster out there already, it isn't THAT much faster (a 4600 is around 15%-20% faster for FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS), and it provides exactely the same set of functionality.

You need a new power supply? I like 300 or 400 watts just in case. That's a $40 expense and like a 20 minute install. Get it when you need it.

The only thing you should NOT skimp on in my opinion is a monitor. Get a REALLY good one from the get go. It will last for YEARS and provide awesome performance. A 19" monitor is a good idea. You shouldn't upgrade for at least 3 years in my opinion if you buy well.

Do not have buyers remorse. Buy smart is all. Know that you won't have the "fastest" but that you have the best bang for the buck. And when it comes time to upgrade, you'll know that you didn't waste your money in the first place.

Ron
 

eden

Champion
I disagree about the video card statement here.
The Radeon 8500 is now either at or below the GF3 Ti200! Plus its new drivers push it up to higher than Ti500 in many occasions. I call that much more bang for the buck, rather than wasting lifetime off the card and get higher temps.
Also the Ti4600 is about 30% better than a Ti500, and almost 2 times stronger than the Ti200! However it costs, so a R200 or Ti200 will do just fine for the next year.

--
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