Radeon 8500 or ti4400?

[Jotsy]

ok, i wanna upgrade my graphics card (from the Hercules 3D Prophet 4500) and i've decided on either getting a Radeon 8500 or a geforce4 ti 4400. i was just wondering which one is the better deal. sure, i know a Radeon 8500 is no match for a geforce4 but here in merry ole England, a geforce4 ti4400 is £239 (that's US$337) and a Radeon 8500 is £205 (that's about Us$290)... yeah i know, i hate it here. so i was wondering if a geforce4 is worth the extra US$47??

also, is there any particular prefered manufacturer for the card i go for? if i were to get the radeon i was thinking of just getting ATI's card and if i go for the geforce4 i was thinking of Gainward's card.

or maybe i should wait for the Radeon 8500eXP or whatever it's called...

 

[Oni]

also, is there any particular prefered manufacturer for the card i go for? if i were to get the radeon i was thinking of just getting ATI's card and if i go for the geforce4 i was thinking of Gainward's card.

Seems like you've done your research, if you get the Radeon 8500 the retail is the way to go or else you'll get slower clock speeds (250 instead of 275) and if you go geforce 4 the gainward golden sample will overclock nicelly give you more bang for your buck. The only beef I have with the Radeon is the drivers, which they are starting to fix. So I say spend the extra money for the speed of the 4400, unless you think newer ATI drivers will improve the 8500s performance.

"Why can't I be the man? I mean, I DO have harmony balls..." -epoth

 

[Matisaro]

Despite what amd_man says, the 8500 is no match currently for the 4200, so just grab that since the price difference is negligible.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!

 

[AMD_Man]

Despite what amd_man says

Hmm, thanks a lot. While I disagree simply because you don't have a frame of reference using the latest 6043 drivers for that, I respect your opinion.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[bront]

I hate to keep telling people to wait, but waiting till they unveil the new flavor of the 8500, and the decide. the new flavor might be worth the extra money, and if not, the old one will still likely drop in price.

Mat, how is he suposed to get a 4200 if they aren't out yet?

I do not like it Tom you see,
I do not like green PCB.

 

[Jotsy]

I think i'll wait for the new ATI 8500eXP card before i choose. Anybody have any ideas on when it's comin an how much it'll be? mebe the prices on the other cards will go down by then...

 

[Matisaro]

Hmm, thanks a lot. While I disagree simply because you don't have a frame of reference using the latest 6043 drivers for that, I respect your opinion.

I want to see linkage of the 8500 beating a 4400.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!

 

[AMD_Man]

You never said a Ti4400, you said a Ti4200.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[kye199]

or you could get a cheaper Radeon 8500 OEM (with 3.6 ns RAM) and flash to retail if you're feeling saucy enough.

Now we're rockin like dokken!

 

[bront]

There is no garuntee that you won't get one with 4.0 ns Ram.

I do not like it Tom you see,
I do not like green PCB.

 

[Matisaro]

You never said a Ti4400, you said a Ti4200

My bad, meant 4400 as is the topic of the thread.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!

 

[AMD_Man]

Check out <A HREF="http://www.gamepc.com/reviews/hardware_review.asp?review=gf4&page=1&mscssid=&tp=" target="_new">this</A> review. The Radeon 8500 is very close to the Ti4600 in many tests. Also, that's with older drivers. We haven't seen official benchmarks with the new 6043 which greatly enhance performance.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[Matisaro]

3dmark2001

4600~9929 default
~7030 1600x1200

8500~8510 default
~5249 1600x1200

3dmark2001(which has been a radeon strong point in the past) ti4600 owns it.

Giants 12% faster at 10x7, 20% faster at 1600x1200.
not even close.

Quake 3~At 1600x1200x32 with everything turned up to maximum, we see the GeForce4 shine. Just by looking at the graph, you can see how faster the GeForce4 is compared to everything else on the market. In this test, we see the GeForce4 Ti4600 hold a 50% performance advantage over the ATI Radeon 8500, not to mention a 70% advantage over the GeForce3 Ti500.

not even close.

At demo, cpu bottleneck.

The aa performance penalties are really convincing in favor of the gf4 line.

<A HREF="http://www.gamepc.com/reviews/hardware_review.asp?review=gf4&page=13&mscssid=&tp=" target="_new">http://www.gamepc.com/reviews/hardware_review.asp?review=gf4&page=13&mscssid=&tp=</A>

So the gf4 will remain playable and look better than the 8500. So, In my oppinion, the 8500 will never outperform the gf4 regardless of drivers.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!

 

[AMD_Man]

That's the TI4600 mind you. The R8500 easily outperforms the Ti500, and with it's current drivers should match or exceed Ti4200 performance in all aspects of performance except AA. As the R8500's AA is programmable, new, less bandwidth hungry sampling techniques can be implemented through drivers. My point is, by far, the R8500 provides the best bang for the buck that will only keep improving. The R8500 was designed to be improved over time through it's various programmable technologies.

Also, Matisaro, remember when the Giants engine sucked under the R8500? Well, now the R8500 crushes the GF3Ti500!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[Matisaro]

That's the TI4600 mind you. The R8500 easily outperforms the Ti500, and with it's current drivers should match or exceed Ti4200 performance in all aspects of performance except AA.

We dont know that as there are no benchmarks for the ti4200, secondly the 8500 does not beat the ti500 in everything. Thirdly, the 4400 should cost only 30-40 more than the retail 8500, and the same price for the 128meg radeon 8500, and it will out perform it, so I must debate the price/performance leader statement.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!

 

[bront]

The TI4400s are going to be priced around 200?

I do not like it Tom you see,
I do not like green PCB.

 

[AMD_Man]

The Ti4400 costs $299USD not $199! The Ti4200 costs that much, and the R8500 can easily compete with it, IMHO. The 128MB R8500 and 128MB AIW R8500DV will face off against the Ti4400 both clock at either 275/275 or 275/300 or 300/300. The RV250 should outperform the Ti4600 by quite a bit at 350/350. As you can see, from now until the summer, nVidia and ATI will be neck and neck with nVidia in a slight lead until the RV250 is released.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[Matisaro]

My bad, misquoted on the price.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!

 

[bront]

Darn. That would have been good news for everyone if the price dropped $100.

I do not like it Tom you see,
I do not like green PCB.

 

[Willamette_sucks]

Jotsy, if youre still reading this, go with the Ti4400. Its alot better than the R8500, dont listen to AMD_Man, weve had this discussion before. Drivers can only get you so far, you must have good hardware capabilties to be #1, and the GeForce 4 ti series has it. Think about it, the R8500 has a core clock of 275, not bad, memory clock 275, wtf is that?!?!?!! GeForce 4 Ti4600's mem clock is 650, and the 4400 is 550, even the Ti500 is 500, im sorry, but you are only pushing the 8500 because you own one. Maybe you lost the reciept, i feel sorry for you. Im buying a Ti4400, and there will never be a doubt in my mind, or anyone elses except you for that matter, that it is way better than a R8500, even the 128MB one, even an OC'd one. Period.

Jotsy dont wait for the 8500eXP or whatever, im sure the Ti4400 will still beat it, and probably be cheaper too.
Jotsy, i feel your pain, here a Ti4400 can be found for $265(american).

The first LAN I went to was at a PETA convention. They booted me after I shot a zombie in HL DM!

 

[AMD_Man]

Willamette, that goes to show how extremely limited your knowledge about this topic is! 275MHz = 550MHz effective. nVidia is advertising their effective rates while ATI advertises their real clock speed and then say "DDR". The R8500 is equally clocked to the Ti4400. It also has two vertex shaders, one fixed-function and one programmable while the Ti4400 has two programmable. This is an advantage and disadvantage for the R8500, depending on how you look at it. When the Ti4400 emulates DX7 T&L functions through its programmable shaders, a rather large toll on performance is taken which allows the R8500 to get back and in some cases outperform it, in today's games of course. In DX8 games, the Ti4400 will have the slight edge in vertex processing but the R8500 has proven superior HSR and programmable FSAA and bandwidth-effective anistropic filtering. Willamette, you know nothing about graphics cards. Please stop spreading FUD. The R8500 has superior hardware and its drivers will always get better because all of the R8500's features are programmable. What this means is that the R8500 almost acts like a CPU when handling scene sampling and vertex processing as well as texture manipulation. Aniso, SmoothVision, OpenGL and DirectX performance can all be continuously enhanced through software because the R8500 is designed to handle that. Any work that it can't handle will be sent to the CPU, which is still not bad considering the alternative of bandwidth loss, and significantly increasing performance. What this means is that a Carmack for example can design his next game not to process certain hidden vertices while applying Smoothvision and thus, decreasing bandwidth loss. The GF4 Ti series doesn't even come close to these extremely flexible technologies. If you can prove otherwise, I will gladly listen but you seemingly, your knowledge about graphics technologies, terminology and computers in general is limited.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[Willamette_sucks]

I did not know that the 275 was before DDR. Everything else you said does not change my mind. I may not know as much as you, but i do know alot. The R8500 may be(and is) better than the Ti500, but not the Ti4400, isnt, never will be. And with only 64MB memory, future games will take their toll. Screw you you stuck-up, preppy, know it all SOB. Your full of it. You should go back to college to get your degree in being an ass-hole so that you could acutally profit from your "limitless" and "perfect" knowledge of the universe, and the infinite pride you possess that lets you express every single thought you have, unwaveringly. I normally charge $50 an hour for tutoring, but ill sell you my foot in your ass for free.

The first LAN I went to was at a PETA convention. They booted me after I shot a zombie in HL DM!

 

[AMD_Man]

lol, I'll have you know that I'm merely a 15-year-old geek! I read A LOT! That's all. I'm a straight-"A" student, but I'm definitely <b>DON'T</b> have: ""limitless" and "perfect" knowledge of the universe". I'm sorry if my post seemed arrogant. I'm just tried of trolls like AMDMeltdown spreading FUD.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[Willamette_sucks]

Im 15 too, though im not sure I would openly call myself a geek, I too read alot, especially here at TH, but other places too. Maybe you have just been in it longer than I have. I just got into computers about 6 months ago, but I have a geniune interst and passion in them, and will continue to advance my knowledge, even if its through dorks like you. I hope to work for AMD some day, or start my own compony. I hope you dont get your ass kicked acting like that in real life, where theres not two screens and hundreds/thousands of miles between you and another person. I did't really mean everything i said, maybe some, but not everything, your last post just pi$sed me off. Maybe ill see you at a LAN party some day and i can kick your ass then, and believe me i will. And so will my computer.

The first LAN I went to was at a PETA convention. They booted me after I shot a zombie in HL DM!

 

[AMD_Man]

lol, maybe one day...hehe. No, I'm not like this most of the time. Sorry, again.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor