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Problem with a 8500 - V2

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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April 3, 2002 11:09:59 PM

About a week ago I posted my problems with a Radeon 8500 (<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&..." target="_new">check here</A>).

In sumary, I bought a cheap Radeon 8500 that didn't work at stock speed (250/250). As the general quality of the HW was rather poor (at least the cooler), and after a few tests I concluded it was defective HW and took the card back. In the same day, I bought other Radeon 8500.

This model is a bit different:
-it has a better cooler (similar to the ATi card)
-it is a 275/275 card (with 3.6ns Hynix memory modules)

The problem is that the behaviour is the exactly the same - over a certain frequency, certain crash (both in 3dmark as in openGL games). Actually, this time the problem is worse because below a certain RAM frequency I have display problems (seemingly a common problem when underclocking the 8500).

I'll probably get a 350W PSU, but something tells me that is not the problem - maybe my mobo just doesn't like Radeons - should have bought the cheaper Ti200 Leadtek they had...

Any ideas for the resolution of the problem?

System:
Athlon 1700+ @1509Mhz
Asus A7V266-E with RAID (BIOS version 1007)
2x60GXP
512 MB DDR CAS2
Windows XP
8500 with 6052 drivers

AGP aperture - 64 MB
AGP transfer mechanism - DMA
AGP non-local memory - 60.8 MB
AGP driving value - 9Ah (N-ctrl=9, P-ctrl=10)
AGP revision - 2.00
AGP transfer rates supported - 1x, 2x, 4x
Current AGP transfer rate - 4x
Sideband addressing - Enabled
Fast write protocol - (n/a)
AGP texturing - Enabled


How terrible is wisdom when it brings no profit to the wise

More about : problem 8500

April 4, 2002 12:40:37 AM

I'm not really that great at solving problems, but on your specs you have your AGP aperature at 64MB? That's low. If your card is 64MB then your aperature should be 128MB. One thing to remember is your aperature should always be 2 times the amout of RAM on your card. Don't know if that's a problem. Try it out.
April 4, 2002 8:49:57 AM

Thanks for your input, but I've tried every AGP aperture size from 8 to 128 MB with no changes at all.

On a side note I think that the AGP aperture size "rules" I've seen change too much to be nothing but opinions - some say it should be half the system RAM (something impossible in my system - no 256MB RAM option ;) ), other say it should be twice the card RAM (and if I had a GF$128MB?) and my mobo defaults to 32 MB. My conclusion is that it is probably best to set it to 32 or 64MB.


How terrible is wisdom when it brings no profit to the wise
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April 4, 2002 4:27:00 PM

Try turning off Sidbanding and make sure AGP Fast Writes are turned off.

Trollin' trollin' trollin', keep them doggies postin', my fingers are swollen, Rawhide!
April 4, 2002 9:05:35 PM

Fast writes are off. But I'll try to disable sidebanding (later I'll post the results - not too hopefull, though).

BTW, anyone knows how the AGP drive force values work?

How terrible is wisdom when it brings no profit to the wise
April 4, 2002 9:13:35 PM

As I said before, you probably have a PSU problem.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
April 5, 2002 8:57:52 AM

Yeah - and tomorrow I'll do a definitive test (buying a 350W PSU). But it is strange that after reducing all that power demands (downclocking the CPU, disconnecting fans and drives) the power requirements are still too high. And there is the issue of global power supply vs AGP power needs.

Also, although I previously had a TnT2 card installed, I already tried other (nVidia) cards with no problems - including a heavily overclocked Gainward Ti200 Golden Sample (very nice card). My insistance in the Radeon 8500 is not so much connected to absolute price but simply because I think it is a better value (faster with better technology at a more attractive price), and drivers will improve. But does this card consumes more power than a GF3?
(as it doesn't heat so much it shouldn't, but...)

How terrible is wisdom when it brings no profit to the wise
April 5, 2002 12:57:44 PM

Are you certain all of the old nvidia drivers are gone?
Also , try disabling your sound card and see what happens, and lastly, your only going to gain power in the 12v rail going from 300w to 350, I would suggest a 400w.
"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints."<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by twc on 04/05/02 09:02 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 5, 2002 1:05:12 PM

Your rails are too low on the 3.3V. You may not even need a new PSU. Try upping the voltage for your RAM and VIO a bit in the BIOS.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
April 7, 2002 8:59:45 PM

It could be a great idea - if the Asus mobo allowed for that.
The problem seems to be solved - but not without a cost - and I'm not talking about the new PSU cost. Well - boring you with details...

Saturday morning I bought the 350W PSU - it gives me an extra 10A on the 5V+ rail. Disconnected the old one and connected the new (leaving it out of the case). Booted the system and it worked! 3dmark crash no more... but the rest of the story isn't as happy.

Concluding, it is now working and so soon I'm not going to buy an Asus Mobo.

How terrible is wisdom when it brings no profit to the wise
April 7, 2002 9:09:23 PM

Actually - according the new PSU label - I get more 10A in the 5V rail. A 400W (or more) is indeed a sound sugestion, but unfortunately around here a 420W PSU costs around 5 times the 350W PSU - it might be a better quality one, but the price diference is difficult to justify. On a side note, I'm starting to wonder wether we have computers or microwave ovens - at least judging by the power requirements...
Regarding the old nVidia drivers they are gone. Quite gone (as everything else actually ;|)...

How terrible is wisdom when it brings no profit to the wise
April 7, 2002 10:00:16 PM

Told you it's not a driver problem. :wink: Trust me I KNOW DRIVER PROBLEMS!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
April 8, 2002 12:19:59 AM

Don't we all? :wink:

And when problematic drivers meet with buggy BIOSes...

How terrible is wisdom when it brings no profit to the wise
!