Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Dell falls off the Cluetrain
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22 [...] ag=nl.e539

--
"Never hire a Ferret to do a Weasel's job"
-Budweiser Lizards (probably Louie)

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Jim Higgins" <gordian238@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11dnrvcpbcs9n42@corp.supernews.com...
> Dell falls off the Cluetrain
> http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22 [...] ag=nl.e539
>
> --
> "Never hire a Ferret to do a Weasel's job"
> -Budweiser Lizards (probably Louie)
>

I think there are far more odious reasons for this action by Dell:

1. Stop customers from exchanging information on common problems or defects
that might afflict a new or existing system.

2. Stop customers from exchanging information on how bad Dell's customer
service and tech support has gotten.

3. Stop customers from exchanging information on how to try and actually get
something done by Dell and thus circumventing the endless phone menu system
and clueless phone people.

Those are just a few off the top of my head but I'm sure there are many
more...

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Just direct everyone to this newsgroup. Once a lot of people find out, look for
the message traffic here to bounce upwards... Ben Myers

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 18:00:52 -0400, "phloppy" <phloppy@disk.com> wrote:

>
>"Jim Higgins" <gordian238@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:11dnrvcpbcs9n42@corp.supernews.com...
>> Dell falls off the Cluetrain
>> http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22 [...] ag=nl.e539
>>
>> --
>> "Never hire a Ferret to do a Weasel's job"
>> -Budweiser Lizards (probably Louie)
>>
>
>I think there are far more odious reasons for this action by Dell:
>
>1. Stop customers from exchanging information on common problems or defects
>that might afflict a new or existing system.
>
>2. Stop customers from exchanging information on how bad Dell's customer
>service and tech support has gotten.
>
>3. Stop customers from exchanging information on how to try and actually get
>something done by Dell and thus circumventing the endless phone menu system
>and clueless phone people.
>
>Those are just a few off the top of my head but I'm sure there are many
>more...
>
>

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

phloppy wrote:

> "Jim Higgins" <gordian238@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:11dnrvcpbcs9n42@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>Dell falls off the Cluetrain
>>http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-5790353.html?tag=nl.e539
>>
>>--
>>"Never hire a Ferret to do a Weasel's job"
>>-Budweiser Lizards (probably Louie)
>>
>
>
> I think there are far more odious reasons for this action by Dell:
>
> 1. Stop customers from exchanging information on common problems or defects
> that might afflict a new or existing system.
>
> 2. Stop customers from exchanging information on how bad Dell's customer
> service and tech support has gotten.
>
> 3. Stop customers from exchanging information on how to try and actually get
> something done by Dell and thus circumventing the endless phone menu system
> and clueless phone people.
>
> Those are just a few off the top of my head but I'm sure there are many
> more...

You might want to check out the Internet - I hear they have it on
computers now.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Jim Higgins" <gordian238@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11dnrvcpbcs9n42@corp.supernews.com...
> Dell falls off the Cluetrain
> http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22 [...] ag=nl.e539
>
> --
>

I can understand entirely where Dell is coming from.

Look at it this way.
Dell puts a website up to help their customers. No problem great company
everyone decides, Kudos to M.D. for helping.
A few months go by.....
Same website on company servers. Folks are asking questions about some
more serious problems and the Dell people are giving them correct
responses.
No problems yet....
Folks decide to start answering questions with things like "this worked
for me so try it" or "I have seen this problem on a friend of a friends
computer, try this fix"
Sounds OK BUT what happens when someone comes on this COMPANY SPONSORED
site with a problem, tries a fix by someone, and wipes a HD clear, or
screws up the settings so bad that the only way out is a re-install?
Next thing you hear is how DELL screwed up when it wasn't a DELL person
who gave them this info. Same thing as folks blaming GM,Ford or whoever
else for problems caused by a friend who KNEW how to fix the problem.
The company gets the black eye for something they didn't do.

You see the same thing happening here a lot. 50 different solutions to a
problem. Half or more of which don't even apply to the problem. BUT how
do you sort out the ones that are correct if your the OP with the
question? Also what solutions do you post based on the often VERY
limited info that usually gets posted?

For instance take this recent one. (NOT HARASSING JUST DEMONSTRATING)

Title of post
Why does my mouse drag?

OP
Hello
I have a new Dell 3000 (purchased in march) and just recently my
mouse doesn't run smoothly -- Sometimes when I go left to right
-- it stops - I have to pick up the mouse, set it down and try
to drag it again --- I've inspected the ball on the bottom and
it doesn't appear to be dirty -- any other suggestions?

Solutions posted:

"It isn't the ball that gets dirty, it's the wheels inside
that collect crud. Remove the ball and look inside,
there are usually 2 wheels. In extreme cases you
may need to open the mouse to clean them."

"is it an optical mouse with a little red light on the bottom."

"I recently saw this type of behavior on a machine with spyware (it
was
a new one on me) - the mouse would "shuffle" itself to the left by
several pixels every few minutes - and stop again within about half a
second. Might be worth a good scan !"

"Dirt on the mouse's ball isn't usually the problem, it is dirt on the
rollers that the ball drives.Undo the bottom plate to release the ball
and remove it. NB the
bottom plate is sometimes a LH thread.
Check the rollers up inside the mouse for dirt and use a probe to
remove same."

"buy an optical mouse.I had the same problem with the Dell mouse even
though I did not have
any problems with the Compaq mouse on my Compaq PC. An Optical mouse
has worked great for me. I bought a Logitech Black Optical Mouse which
is a cheap mouse but it works great."

"Have u actually opened the mouse up, removed the ball and checked the
rollers that the ball rolls against. Any time my pointer has started
acting flakey I've had to open the mouse up and gently clean gunk off
those rollers inside. The gunk wouldn't be on the ball itself, but on
the
rollers inside. I gently scrape the gunk off with a toothpick and once
it
has been loosened I pick it out with tweezers if it doesn't fall out on
its own. "


Which is the most probable correct answer? Keep in mind that the person
who posts the question ASSUMES the answers are from company people since
it is a COMPANY run site NOT that these are just other folks trying to
help. The correct answer will get you MAYBE a thanks, the incorrect one
gets "That damn Dell support person told me to (insert answer of choice
here), Then I find out it was just (insert cheaper/easier/correct
answer here) I'll never buy Dell again, their support people are
stupid/ignorant/"

Happens a LOT. What is the BEST solution to the problem?

Close down the board? - Folks bitch about how that limits support
options, or how Dell is screwing customers again.

Keep the board open and have LOT's of wrong info on it that didn't come
from Dell people in the first place? - Folks bitch about how poor Dell
support is and how they got the wrong answer to some problem on the
board and it caused them to lose a lot of data.

Either one gets you bed press.

Steve W.


























----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

One compromise solution would be to have TWO boards, one moderated by Dell
personnel who could make sure the customer responses were truly useful and one
totally unmoderated (like this one).

Another compromise would be to have a board where Dell and only Dell employees
could respond.

Shutting down a message board entirely does nobody any good. Dell, like any
company, needs feedback about its products, good or bad. Customers need
solutions to problems.

Of course, the bean counters cannot add to the books the value of the good will
generated by a message board, so away it does. Likewise, the bean counters
cannot quantify the value of honest to gosh American English speaking support
people with solid technical knowledge, so away that goes, too. As another
posting stated, from an accounting standpoint, post-sales customer support and
warranty service are drains on the balance sheet, so everyone (not just Dell) is
cutting back in the face of severe price competition.

The real problem here continues to be that customers supposedly demand ever
cheaper computers, lacking any sort of margin to provide post-sales support.
And I'll claim that Americans have fewer dollars to spend on computers these
days, while, at the same time, computers become a necessity of life. So where
does the downward spiral end? ... Ben Myers



On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:38:46 -0400, "Steve W." <Dugdug56@what.com> wrote:

>
>"Jim Higgins" <gordian238@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:11dnrvcpbcs9n42@corp.supernews.com...
>> Dell falls off the Cluetrain
>> http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22 [...] ag=nl.e539
>>
>> --
>>
>
>I can understand entirely where Dell is coming from.
>
>Look at it this way.
>Dell puts a website up to help their customers. No problem great company
>everyone decides, Kudos to M.D. for helping.
>A few months go by.....
>Same website on company servers. Folks are asking questions about some
>more serious problems and the Dell people are giving them correct
>responses.
>No problems yet....
>Folks decide to start answering questions with things like "this worked
>for me so try it" or "I have seen this problem on a friend of a friends
>computer, try this fix"
>Sounds OK BUT what happens when someone comes on this COMPANY SPONSORED
>site with a problem, tries a fix by someone, and wipes a HD clear, or
>screws up the settings so bad that the only way out is a re-install?
>Next thing you hear is how DELL screwed up when it wasn't a DELL person
>who gave them this info. Same thing as folks blaming GM,Ford or whoever
>else for problems caused by a friend who KNEW how to fix the problem.
>The company gets the black eye for something they didn't do.
>
>You see the same thing happening here a lot. 50 different solutions to a
>problem. Half or more of which don't even apply to the problem. BUT how
>do you sort out the ones that are correct if your the OP with the
>question? Also what solutions do you post based on the often VERY
>limited info that usually gets posted?
>
>For instance take this recent one. (NOT HARASSING JUST DEMONSTRATING)
>
>Title of post
>Why does my mouse drag?
>
>OP
> Hello
> I have a new Dell 3000 (purchased in march) and just recently my
> mouse doesn't run smoothly -- Sometimes when I go left to right
> -- it stops - I have to pick up the mouse, set it down and try
> to drag it again --- I've inspected the ball on the bottom and
> it doesn't appear to be dirty -- any other suggestions?
>
>Solutions posted:
>
> "It isn't the ball that gets dirty, it's the wheels inside
>that collect crud. Remove the ball and look inside,
>there are usually 2 wheels. In extreme cases you
>may need to open the mouse to clean them."
>
> "is it an optical mouse with a little red light on the bottom."
>
> "I recently saw this type of behavior on a machine with spyware (it
>was
>a new one on me) - the mouse would "shuffle" itself to the left by
>several pixels every few minutes - and stop again within about half a
>second. Might be worth a good scan !"
>
> "Dirt on the mouse's ball isn't usually the problem, it is dirt on the
>rollers that the ball drives.Undo the bottom plate to release the ball
>and remove it. NB the
>bottom plate is sometimes a LH thread.
>Check the rollers up inside the mouse for dirt and use a probe to
>remove same."
>
> "buy an optical mouse.I had the same problem with the Dell mouse even
>though I did not have
>any problems with the Compaq mouse on my Compaq PC. An Optical mouse
>has worked great for me. I bought a Logitech Black Optical Mouse which
>is a cheap mouse but it works great."
>
> "Have u actually opened the mouse up, removed the ball and checked the
>rollers that the ball rolls against. Any time my pointer has started
>acting flakey I've had to open the mouse up and gently clean gunk off
>those rollers inside. The gunk wouldn't be on the ball itself, but on
>the
>rollers inside. I gently scrape the gunk off with a toothpick and once
>it
>has been loosened I pick it out with tweezers if it doesn't fall out on
>its own. "
>
>
>Which is the most probable correct answer? Keep in mind that the person
>who posts the question ASSUMES the answers are from company people since
>it is a COMPANY run site NOT that these are just other folks trying to
>help. The correct answer will get you MAYBE a thanks, the incorrect one
>gets "That damn Dell support person told me to (insert answer of choice
>here), Then I find out it was just (insert cheaper/easier/correct
>answer here) I'll never buy Dell again, their support people are
>stupid/ignorant/"
>
>Happens a LOT. What is the BEST solution to the problem?
>
>Close down the board? - Folks bitch about how that limits support
>options, or how Dell is screwing customers again.
>
>Keep the board open and have LOT's of wrong info on it that didn't come
>from Dell people in the first place? - Folks bitch about how poor Dell
>support is and how they got the wrong answer to some problem on the
>board and it caused them to lose a lot of data.
>
>Either one gets you bed press.
>
>Steve W.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
>----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

In article <42dd39cf.2747007@nntp.charter.net>, ben_myers_spam_me_not @
charter.net (Ben Myers) says...
> One compromise solution would be to have TWO boards, one moderated by Dell
> personnel who could make sure the customer responses were truly useful and one
> totally unmoderated (like this one).
>
> Another compromise would be to have a board where Dell and only Dell employees
> could respond.

Just so that you know, these are NOT BOARDS, they are usenet groups.
While your connection to Usenet might be through some web interface,
Usenet is not a board, and should not be considered one.

There are moderated Usenet groups, but, a properly moderated groups
requires LOTS of time.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I've used usenet for a number of years (8? 10? I forget), and NOT through a web
interface. Sorry for the confusion, but there are no great CONCEPTUAL
differences between a message board and a usenet group. They both communicate
one-to-many, and they both operate on the premise of message threads.

Well, I only made a suggestion or two as to what Dell might do in dealing with
its customers. But, after all, it is their problem to solve. In the meantime,
alt.sys.pc-clone.dell is here to replace the Dell message board... Ben Myers

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:47:30 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.lan> wrote:

>In article <42dd39cf.2747007@nntp.charter.net>, ben_myers_spam_me_not @
>charter.net (Ben Myers) says...
>> One compromise solution would be to have TWO boards, one moderated by Dell
>> personnel who could make sure the customer responses were truly useful and one
>> totally unmoderated (like this one).
>>
>> Another compromise would be to have a board where Dell and only Dell employees
>> could respond.
>
>Just so that you know, these are NOT BOARDS, they are usenet groups.
>While your connection to Usenet might be through some web interface,
>Usenet is not a board, and should not be considered one.
>
>There are moderated Usenet groups, but, a properly moderated groups
>requires LOTS of time.
>
>--
>
>spam999free@rrohio.com
>remove 999 in order to email me

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Sparky Spartacus" <Sparky@universalexports.org> wrote in message
news:3Z2De.12$sf6.6@fe08.lga...
> phloppy wrote:
>
> > "Jim Higgins" <gordian238@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:11dnrvcpbcs9n42@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> >>Dell falls off the Cluetrain
> >>http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-5790353.html?tag=nl.e539
> >>
> >>--
> >>"Never hire a Ferret to do a Weasel's job"
> >>-Budweiser Lizards (probably Louie)
> >>
> >
> >
> > I think there are far more odious reasons for this action by Dell:
> >
> > 1. Stop customers from exchanging information on common problems or
defects
> > that might afflict a new or existing system.
> >
> > 2. Stop customers from exchanging information on how bad Dell's customer
> > service and tech support has gotten.
> >
> > 3. Stop customers from exchanging information on how to try and actually
get
> > something done by Dell and thus circumventing the endless phone menu
system
> > and clueless phone people.
> >
> > Those are just a few off the top of my head but I'm sure there are many
> > more...
>
> You might want to check out the Internet - I hear they have it on
> computers now.

What they are shutting down is specific to Dell customers. Maybe even a
large number in one place. No mailing list needed. No website to setup
because it's already there. It's a Dell provided soapbox in front of
thousands of other Dell customers.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

People providing bad or wrong answers? Hell, probably no more than the
idiots they have on the tech support lines these days!

"Steve W." <Dugdug56@what.com> wrote in message
news:42dd1f93$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net...
>
> "Jim Higgins" <gordian238@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:11dnrvcpbcs9n42@corp.supernews.com...
> > Dell falls off the Cluetrain
> > http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22 [...] ag=nl.e539
> >
> > --
> >
>
> I can understand entirely where Dell is coming from.
>
> Look at it this way.
> Dell puts a website up to help their customers. No problem great company
> everyone decides, Kudos to M.D. for helping.
> A few months go by.....
> Same website on company servers. Folks are asking questions about some
> more serious problems and the Dell people are giving them correct
> responses.
> No problems yet....
> Folks decide to start answering questions with things like "this worked
> for me so try it" or "I have seen this problem on a friend of a friends
> computer, try this fix"
> Sounds OK BUT what happens when someone comes on this COMPANY SPONSORED
> site with a problem, tries a fix by someone, and wipes a HD clear, or
> screws up the settings so bad that the only way out is a re-install?
> Next thing you hear is how DELL screwed up when it wasn't a DELL person
> who gave them this info. Same thing as folks blaming GM,Ford or whoever
> else for problems caused by a friend who KNEW how to fix the problem.
> The company gets the black eye for something they didn't do.
>
> You see the same thing happening here a lot. 50 different solutions to a
> problem. Half or more of which don't even apply to the problem. BUT how
> do you sort out the ones that are correct if your the OP with the
> question? Also what solutions do you post based on the often VERY
> limited info that usually gets posted?
>
> For instance take this recent one. (NOT HARASSING JUST DEMONSTRATING)
>
> Title of post
> Why does my mouse drag?
>
> OP
> Hello
> I have a new Dell 3000 (purchased in march) and just recently my
> mouse doesn't run smoothly -- Sometimes when I go left to right
> -- it stops - I have to pick up the mouse, set it down and try
> to drag it again --- I've inspected the ball on the bottom and
> it doesn't appear to be dirty -- any other suggestions?
>
> Solutions posted:
>
> "It isn't the ball that gets dirty, it's the wheels inside
> that collect crud. Remove the ball and look inside,
> there are usually 2 wheels. In extreme cases you
> may need to open the mouse to clean them."
>
> "is it an optical mouse with a little red light on the bottom."
>
> "I recently saw this type of behavior on a machine with spyware (it
> was
> a new one on me) - the mouse would "shuffle" itself to the left by
> several pixels every few minutes - and stop again within about half a
> second. Might be worth a good scan !"
>
> "Dirt on the mouse's ball isn't usually the problem, it is dirt on the
> rollers that the ball drives.Undo the bottom plate to release the ball
> and remove it. NB the
> bottom plate is sometimes a LH thread.
> Check the rollers up inside the mouse for dirt and use a probe to
> remove same."
>
> "buy an optical mouse.I had the same problem with the Dell mouse even
> though I did not have
> any problems with the Compaq mouse on my Compaq PC. An Optical mouse
> has worked great for me. I bought a Logitech Black Optical Mouse which
> is a cheap mouse but it works great."
>
> "Have u actually opened the mouse up, removed the ball and checked the
> rollers that the ball rolls against. Any time my pointer has started
> acting flakey I've had to open the mouse up and gently clean gunk off
> those rollers inside. The gunk wouldn't be on the ball itself, but on
> the
> rollers inside. I gently scrape the gunk off with a toothpick and once
> it
> has been loosened I pick it out with tweezers if it doesn't fall out on
> its own. "
>
>
> Which is the most probable correct answer? Keep in mind that the person
> who posts the question ASSUMES the answers are from company people since
> it is a COMPANY run site NOT that these are just other folks trying to
> help. The correct answer will get you MAYBE a thanks, the incorrect one
> gets "That damn Dell support person told me to (insert answer of choice
> here), Then I find out it was just (insert cheaper/easier/correct
> answer here) I'll never buy Dell again, their support people are
> stupid/ignorant/"
>
> Happens a LOT. What is the BEST solution to the problem?
>
> Close down the board? - Folks bitch about how that limits support
> options, or how Dell is screwing customers again.
>
> Keep the board open and have LOT's of wrong info on it that didn't come
> from Dell people in the first place? - Folks bitch about how poor Dell
> support is and how they got the wrong answer to some problem on the
> board and it caused them to lose a lot of data.
>
> Either one gets you bed press.
>
> Steve W.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Yes, it is not an urban legend that many tech support people tell you to
reformat and reinstall the OS, then call back if the problem still persists. Of
course, the infinite complexities of Windows don't make it any easier for us.

.... Ben Myers

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 22:43:11 -0400, "phloppy" <phloppy@disk.com> wrote:

>People providing bad or wrong answers? Hell, probably no more than the
>idiots they have on the tech support lines these days!
>
<SNIP>

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

In article <42ddbc40.952057@nntp.charter.net>, ben_myers_spam_me_not @
charter.net (Ben Myers) says...
> Yes, it is not an urban legend that many tech support people tell you to
> reformat and reinstall the OS, then call back if the problem still persists. Of
> course, the infinite complexities of Windows don't make it any easier for us.

I've actually been on a speaker phone in the room with someone seeking
support when Dell asked the person to do the system restore from their
CD's.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me