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Newbie networker

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May 7, 2002 8:44:45 PM

Alright, if you remember my other post, I finally got a switch, a crimper, some plugs, and 50 feet of cable. It was more than enough to run from my living room, where the switch is, to the bedroom next to my bed. Pretty messy, really.

Anyways, I'm trying to set up the network so that my main computer can see the data partition on my laptop, and the same with my laptop. So far on the laptop, I can see two folders under the data drive. But, I can't see the whole data drive.

I did this:
Right-click Data hard drive
go to "Sharing and Security"
chose the "Share this folder" option
User limit "maximum allowed"
OK

I did this for the three folders under it as well. But, the laptop can only see who of the three. I'd rather have it see the whole hard drive. Can I get some assistance?

Other information:
<font color=green>Main computer is running Windows XP Pro - built in firewall is disabled</font color=green>
<font color=red>Laptop is running Windows 98 SE</font color=red>
<font color=green>BBIagent is the router/DHCP server</font color=green>
<font color=red>Switch is connected to one NIC of the router, while the DSL modem is connected to the other</font color=red>

Thanks for any help you can give me...
Bryan

<font color=red><A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com" target="_new">btvillarin.com</A> - My Windows XP-based Website</font color=red>

More about : newbie networker

May 7, 2002 9:09:24 PM

103$ please. You seem to of done everything right, i'm not sure if you need to share out all the folders in the drive, just sharing the drive should do what you want.

<font color=red>:</font color=red> <font color=white>:</font color=white> <font color=blue>:</font color=blue>
May 7, 2002 9:59:47 PM

what he said. Share the drive.

<i>It's always the one thing you never suspected.</i>
Related resources
May 7, 2002 10:41:15 PM

Do changing the share options require a reboot (for both computers)? Maybe that's what it needs.

I unshared the folders, and just set the whole drive to share. I'm going to reboot, and I have to leave, but hopefully it'll take.

<font color=red><A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com" target="_new">btvillarin.com</A> - My Windows XP-based Website</font color=red>
May 8, 2002 1:50:11 AM

normally not.

<i>It's always the one thing you never suspected.</i>
May 8, 2002 4:20:46 AM

Dangit...it's not taking. Is there a way to start the networking process fresh and try again? I don't know what else to do.

<font color=red><A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com" target="_new">btvillarin.com</A> - My Windows XP-based Website</font color=red>
May 8, 2002 7:02:49 AM

just to back it up a bit, each one can ping the other without a problem, right?

Can the main computer (XP Pro machine) see all of its OWN shares?

You're using network neighborhood for all of these views?

The 98 box is logging in with a username and password combo that exist and is enabled on the XP machine?

Do you have client for MS networks and file & printer sharing for MS networks installed on both machines?





<i>It's always the one thing you never suspected.</i>
May 8, 2002 8:19:20 AM

And do you have any permissions set to Deny?

<font color=red>:</font color=red> <font color=white>:</font color=white> <font color=blue>:</font color=blue>
May 8, 2002 8:47:44 AM

To answer Zlash first, no permissions in XP are set to Deny.

Now, I'm not sure how to ping each other. In XP, I use "My Network Places" to view the folders. In Win98, I do use Network Neighborhood.

I have File and Print Sharing enabled on both machines.

Lastly, what's this all about with logging in with a username and password? I don't know what to do with this. Still, I can only see two folders, and not the third one.

Thanks for attempting to help...

<font color=red><A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com" target="_new">btvillarin.com</A> - My Windows XP-based Website</font color=red>
May 8, 2002 9:09:30 AM

If you want to share the whole drive, theres no need to share any other folders (unless you want specific share rights on these folders, which I assume you dont).
so we have lappy and desktop, on tboth pc's we have a drive called shares. On both pc's remove any shares from folders on these drives, and share only the drive itself (which, btw isnt really reccomended) Be sure you havnt set to deny, for the moment leave it as everyone full access- you can change this after. do this on both
on lappy, in the address bar, type \\desktop\data and hit enter, you SHOULD then see the shared drive, on the desktop, put \\laptop\data, again, you SHOULD then see the shared drive.

desktop & laptop & data should be replaced bu the respective computernames and sharenames




If they squeeze olives to get olive oil, how do they get baby oil?
May 8, 2002 10:29:51 AM

Quote:
Lastly, what's this all about with logging in with a username and password? I don't know what to do with this. Still, I can only see two folders, and not the third one.

You need to log into the 98 box (make your primary login "microsoft Networking" in the Network and Dialup connections applet in the control panel (I'm going from memory here as I don't have a 98 box at hand). Then when you log in, just make sure you enter the exact username and password as a privileged account on the XP box. You can hit cancel if it prompts you to enter it as your windows password as that has no bearing on anything.

If this doesn't make sense, maybe someone with a 98 box can correct whatever mistakes I made.

<i>It's always the one thing you never suspected.</i>
May 8, 2002 10:43:45 AM

I'll add a little bit which may help:

if your 98 box is called FRED, then on the xp box, you need a user account called FRED with the appropriate rights to access the shares. It doesnt matter weather or not you log on to 98 (as long as you dont hit cancel of course, but if theres no logon box on 98 its fine). To get the name of the 98 box, go to control panel, network, identification.


If they squeeze olives to get olive oil, how do they get baby oil?
May 8, 2002 11:00:30 AM

CALV, I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. In my experience you can't access a share on an NT flavor box from a 9X box unless you log into the 9X box using the Microsoft Networking login with a valid username and password that exists in the NT box. Otherwise the 9X box has no way of authenticating itself to the NT box.

The only exception to this rule I can think of is if you made the share a "guest" share, which of course is less secure. Now if the LAN in question is behind a NAT firewall for instance, guest access in theory shouldn't be a problem. But just to be on the safe side I would still require passwords on the shares.

As always, this comes from my non-expert brain. Rebuttals are welcome.

<i>It's always the one thing you never suspected.</i>
May 8, 2002 2:00:50 PM

I was also in 2 minds about this when I wrote the previous post, but im sure I never had to logon in order to access shares (assuming a workgroup not a domain), however it may well be that I've always used tweakui to automatically logon to the 98 boxes. I'll throw 98 onto a pc when I get home and have a look.

If they squeeze olives to get olive oil, how do they get baby oil?
May 8, 2002 4:31:00 PM

Okay, per your instructions:

Main Computer
I removed the shares from the folders within the drive I wanted to share, and I enabled sharing the whole drive.

Laptop
THis has already been accomplished.
I changed the Primary Login to Microsoft Networking.
I entered the exact same username and password, but when I looked at my main computer's shares, the only thing that showed up was the printer. Everything was gone.

Main Computer
In my network places, the shared folders hasn't refreshed yet. It still shows the folders I was previously sharing, when I already disabled those shares.


Lastly, how I view if my network is in a domain? I don't think I set it to be that...I think I set it to be a workgroup.

Still stumped, but thanks for the effort guys. :smile:

<b>Edit:</b> I just wanted to add that in Windows XP on my main computer, My Network Places shows the folders shared on my main computer still shows the shares for the drive I wanted to share. On the laptop, it just shows the printer, even after rebooting both computers.

<font color=red><A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com" target="_new">btvillarin.com</A> - My Windows XP-based Website</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by btvillarin on 05/08/02 09:41 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 8, 2002 4:55:44 PM

you would know if you were on a domain.

try this, since network neighbourhood/network places is crap:

again, 2 pc's called lappy and desktop
on lappy, open i.e. or my computer, or whatever, in the address bar, put \\desktop and press enter, it SHOULD show the share.

on the desktop, do the same but put \\lappy
obviously replace desktop and lappy with the pc names


If they squeeze olives to get olive oil, how do they get baby oil?
May 8, 2002 5:12:30 PM

From the Laptop:
Main computer is only sharing the printer

From the Desktop:
Laptop is correctly configured to share the data drive

On the Desktop computer, Data (E:)  Properties under the sharing tab has "Share This Folder" selected, share name is E$, comment "Default Share", user limit "Maximum allowed". When I click "Permissions", a window titled "Sharing" pops up saying "This has been shared for administrative purposes. The permissions cannot be set."

<font color=red><A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com" target="_new">btvillarin.com</A> - My Windows XP-based Website</font color=red>
May 8, 2002 7:04:26 PM

don;t do the default share. thats doesn't work for me. make a new share name. something like e_share (or whatever) just don't use the default e$

<i>It's always the one thing you never suspected.</i>
May 8, 2002 8:19:15 PM

Okay, that didn't work though. :eek: 

<font color=red><A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com" target="_new">btvillarin.com</A> - My Windows XP-based Website</font color=red>
May 8, 2002 10:38:28 PM

You can access them without the login or anything by enabling the guest account on the XP box.

<font color=red>:</font color=red> <font color=white>:</font color=white> <font color=blue>:</font color=blue>
May 9, 2002 7:02:51 AM

do you see it from the desktop (i.e. loopback)?

<i>It's always the one thing you never suspected.</i>
May 9, 2002 7:39:35 AM

Alright, I enabled the Guest account. Then, I tried sharing all three folders that are first under that data drive for my desktop computer. Loopback could see them, but the laptop could only see two out of the three folders.

<font color=red><A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com" target="_new">btvillarin.com</A> - My Windows XP-based Website</font color=red>
May 9, 2002 9:57:27 AM

thats really weird that you always see only a subset of all the shares on the desktop from lappy (to use CALV's terminology). Is there anything you can think of that the "non viewable" share has in common each time? Possibly the name? Exceeding the length limitation or something?

Does the net use command work from 98? I can't remember, but in case it does try the following from lappy at a DOS prompt:

share_name == the name of the share you can't see from lappy
XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX == IP address of desktop

C:\> NET USE * \\XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX\share_name

and report back what you get

Also, if it gives you an error try it for the other 2 shares that you CAN see from lappy, just for grins.

<i>It's always the one thing you never suspected.</i>
May 9, 2002 10:40:06 AM

unfortunatley net use doesnt work on 98.

I think I'd try removing all shares, then recreating the shares first off, but its very odd that some are available and some not, is the account on the xp box definately right ? I knpw there are a few networking issues with xp, but this isnt one!



If they squeeze olives to get olive oil, how do they get baby oil?
May 9, 2002 11:18:53 AM

CALV are you SURE about that? I seem to remember that NET USE was available on 98, but didn't have the "/user" qualifier available, which made it a little less attractive to me, but usable. Can you check it out on your box?

<i>It's always the one thing you never suspected.</i>
May 9, 2002 11:41:58 AM

C:\WINDOWS\Desktop>net use /?
Bad command or filename

C:\WINDOWS\Desktop>

BTW i didnt get chance to test weather or not the network was available on a 98 box with no windows logon, was very busy last night, Im at work now and dont have a lan card in my 98 box, erm aha, thay may be why its not working on mine, just like winipcfg doesnt work with no protocols installed, I'll try and find out.


If they squeeze olives to get olive oil, how do they get baby oil?
May 9, 2002 11:49:19 AM

I found posts all over usenet with folks talking about using NET USE on 98. here's an example:

=======================================================

>But I found that the mapping cannot be established successfully in
>Windows 98. However, it worked in Windows 2000 workstation.
>
>Is the "net use" command incompatible in Windows NT and Windows 98 ?
>How to fix the problem ?

The form of the NET USE command in Windows 98 is:

NET USE \\computer\share

You can only specify a share name, not the full path to a directory.
On the NT system, share the \home\john folder as JOHN and map it:

NET USE H: \\NT40\JOHN
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Desktop Systems)

Sorry, but I don't give technical support by E-mail.
Please post all questions in the news group.

Steve's Networking FAQ
http://www.sohointer.net/winograd/faq.htm

MVPs are volunteers, not Microsoft employees. See
http://support.microsoft.com/support/mvp for details.

========================================================

<i>It's always the one thing you never suspected.</i>
May 9, 2002 1:03:03 PM

I know it seems defeatest, but i've had SOOOOOO many troubles networking XP/2k and ME! ME! ME! (heh)

Is there no option to upgrade the laptop to 2k?

<A HREF="http://www.petefeet.com/" target="_new">Feet's World</A>
<A HREF="http://www.efficientdeath.com/" target="_new">AoN</A>
May 9, 2002 1:33:29 PM

ditto on that. Thats why I have no more 9X around.

<i>It's always the one thing you never suspected.</i>
May 9, 2002 3:05:07 PM

I'd agree also, as I mentioned earlier, there are some issues with xp & networking, 98/me have never been good at it, bet it still should work!
as for net use, it seems that the commans is only installed when a network is running.

If they squeeze olives to get olive oil, how do they get baby oil?
May 9, 2002 3:31:39 PM

Quote:
it seems that the commans is only installed when a network is running.

as Radar O'Reilly once said: ahhhhh Bacccchhhhh!!!

<i>It's always the one thing you never suspected.</i>
May 9, 2002 3:33:54 PM

I dunno anymore. I'm hoping to get a copy of Win2K Pro fairly soon, but you know this has to be buggin. Not even for me, but for future problems like this. All I'm saying is that I seriously hope it's not the dope sitting in front of the monitor typing this post. (And, my apoligies if it is...)

The name on the third folder that isn't showing up on the laptop has more than 8 characters in it's name. Why would that make a difference, though? The other folders' sub-folders have longer names...

Is there a way I can default both computers and try again fresh??? This is kinda frustrating, and it might be better to start back at step one.

Thanks for all your help, though. It's really nice to know that when someone needs help, y'all are will to dig in. :smile:

<font color=red><A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com" target="_new">btvillarin.com</A> - My Windows XP-based Website</font color=red>
May 9, 2002 3:44:59 PM

bt, did you try "NET USE"?

<i>It's always the one thing you never suspected.</i>
May 9, 2002 3:59:56 PM

I'm not sure what Net Use did, because an error came up. I typed:
<font color=green>net use \\HOME\Bryan</font color=green>

Then, this error came up:
<font color=green>Error 53: The computer name specified in the network path cannot be located. Make sure you are specifying the computer name correctly, or try again later when the remote computer is available.</font color=green>

I was trying this with the laptop. When I went to the desktop to see what it's IP address was, I tried to share the whole HD again. This time, it worked! Dangit...what'd I do!?! :lol: 

Thanks again! If you have a reason why this worked this time, or why I couldn't rename that one folder (Permission denied for some odd reason), please post back. I'd appreciate it.

<font color=red><A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com" target="_new">btvillarin.com</A> - My Windows XP-based Website</font color=red>
May 9, 2002 4:12:01 PM

In regards to loopback, how come it shows the other three folders that are within the drive I wanted to share? Is there any way I can refresh this to the way it's supposed to be? It's not too important, but still.

Thanks...

<font color=red><A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com" target="_new">btvillarin.com</A> - My Windows XP-based Website</font color=red>
May 9, 2002 6:25:02 PM

well, i can tell you this.
WIN98se, and WINme and anything under win2k cannot access folders on a network that have longer names than i think 12Charachters. SO, if the folder that you cannot see has a name that is longer than 12characters, then you will not be able to access the longer named folders.
i had this problem when my dad was trying to get something off of my computer.
(his machine is running win98se).
also, what protocols do you have installed on the WIN98se machine?
usually when i have problems on the WIN98se machines here, i just remove ALL the protocols, and start fresh, installing TCP/IP, ISP/SPX, and NETBEUI. then i make sure that TCP/IP is set to automatically recieve the IP address from the router. and leave everything else like it is. probably the most lazy way to set up a network, but it seems to work for me.
also, have you been able to ping and see if there is any problems with that?
dos prompt
ping xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx "enter"
i know that they can see each other, but to check for dropped packets...... :eek: 
and yeah, not sure how to go about getting the XP machine back to normal, but i know that on the 98SE machine, you just remove all the protocols from the Networking properties window and restart, then re-enter your settings.
on the XP machine, you can re-run the network setup wizard. i think that might work...

-DAvid

-Live, Learn, then build your own computer!-
May 10, 2002 10:02:01 AM

hmm, I need to disagree on this one,

Quote:
WIN98se, and WINme and anything under win2k cannot access folders on a network that have longer names than i think 12Charachters

yes they can, well 2k certainly can, I just tested it

also theres no ned for netbui, ipx/spx, only tcp/ip is requires (ok, netbui for some odd reason sometimes helps things along)


If they squeeze olives to get olive oil, how do they get baby oil?
May 10, 2002 10:10:30 AM

Have you tried editing your "network" file (no extension)?

Not networks.txt or anything else, but the one with no extension, its in \windows\

Make it read:

"loopback 127" (not sure about the number, but that'll be in there anyway)
"karl 192.168.0.100"
"stockton 192.168.0.101"

where karl and stockton are your PCs names and the IP addresses their IP addresses.

Now, this assumes you've set the win98 machine at least to have a static IP. You could also make the 2k one into a DNS server for the 98 one, but lets do one thing at a time.

So, set both machines to static IPs (those above will do), edit your network file and reboot

<i>tell us how it goes</i>

<i>ps. sorry if this has already been mentioned, too much work to do to read all posts</i>
<i>pps. if you do a "search for computers" it generally will show up the PC if it is accessible where a look in Net Neigh or typing \\Karl at cmd prompt won't

<A HREF="http://www.petefeet.com/" target="_new">Feet's World</A>
<A HREF="http://www.efficientdeath.com/" target="_new">AoN</A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by petefeet on 05/10/02 11:13 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 10, 2002 11:32:40 AM

I was going to chime in on that one -

IPX/SPX = Novell networking. Not needed unless you need to access a Novell server (although technically it CAN be used for peer to peer communications)

NETBEUI = NETBios Enhanced User Interface

Basically it's an extension of NETBios. There's a pretty good explanation of NETBEUI, NETBios, SMB etc. over <A HREF="http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,289893,sid9_g..." target="_new">here</A>

<i>It's always the one thing you never suspected.</i>
May 10, 2002 3:24:17 PM

Sorry, I forgot to tell you about another update...

In regards to loopback on my Windows XP machine, I just deleted the shortcuts in "My Network Places" for the extraneous shares that shouldn't have been there. Now, everything's okay. (Right?)

Thanks for everything guys. I can imagine you've all put in a lot of effort, and I certainly appreciate it.

<font color=red><A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com" target="_new">btvillarin.com</A> - My Windows XP-based Website</font color=red>
!