Update

[Rebe7254]

Thanks again for your help everyone. I'd like to debrief you on my saga of computer problems.

I sent the computer back to my dad's office last night. He said the techs determined the video card was bad. They took it out, and put in a GF2 MX as a temporary. They're sending the GF4 back tomorrow to get it replaced. This is the THIRD bad video card I've had in a row then! The first two were Asus V6600's (Geforce 256) and now the new one from PNY.

They rebooted several times, and they said that it didn't lock up anymore after putting this card in it. It hasn't locked up on me yet, except for once and I'm getting to that.

They left the Detonator 28.32 drivers on here. You remember me talking about the sripe down the middle where everything is a shade lighter than everything else around it? Well, it was still there, just as noticable if not more noticable than before. Thinking this could be a driver problem, I decided to try Detonator 23.11 drivers. After uninstalling the 28.32 drivers, I restarted. As soon as the "windows is shutting down, saving settings blah blah" was done, it goes to a black screen with a blinking cursor in the top left corner and just stays there. I gave it a whole bunch of time before I manually rebooted. It did this when I was reinstalling the 28.32 drivers a few days ago, too. ANYWAY, The stripe did not go away. That leads me to believe I have a monitor problem, which wouldn't surprise me at all considering all the shitty luck I've had. However, when I was installing the 23.11 drivers while in VGA mode or whatever, I couldn't see it at all. Hell, I don't know anymore.

My dad did not have them to tell him what the power supply voltage is like I told him to, so I dunno about that. I'm thinking it's probably 300 watt. I'm almost at the brink of going crazy with a sledgehammer on the whole thing! arrgghh

 

[Flyboy]

That sux man. If you've gone through 3 video cards then clearly the problem is related to either the motherboard or the power supply. I don't see how the monitor could be the problem, but it should be really easy to eliminate it as a possibility. How come the guys at your dads office didn't try installing your video card in a different machine? You really need to start eliminating suspect hardware.

1. Try a different monitor
Does it work? YES...problem solved.
NO....goto 2.
2. Insert video card into a different computer.
Does it work? NO....problem solved (bad card)
YES...goto 3.
3. Either put another similar card into your computer or try a different (higher rated) powersupply if possible. At the very least check your voltage readings in the BIOS and make sure they are stable.
If you put a different powersupply in and it works, then the PS is bad.
If you put a different powersupply in and it doesn't work, then the motherboard is probably bad.

I know this doesn't make you feel any better, but it's about the best you can do short of just sending the videocard back altogether. My money is on your powersupply or your motherboard.

 

[williamc]

Interesting approach...but i kinda have doubts its the mobo or power supply...especially if the MX card works as a temporary.
But, just in case, make sure the voltage in the bios is set properly for agp2.0 cards. Would hate to think you might be frying anything you plug in with too much voltage.

Perhaps a better explanation would simply be the brand name...this might be personal bias but I'd honestly try a VIsiontek 4600 if you can instead of Asus or PNY. Been hearing quite a few problems with Asus and trusting PNY is the mistake of the ages... I've installed and configured over 30 Visiontek GF4's with zero problems.

The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out

 

[Rebe7254]

Power supply? Perhaps. Mobo, I doubt it. I just got a brand new mobo A7V333. The other two cards were on the old P3V133 board. The card I had right before the GF4 was a SiS 8 MB card. That's about the best working card I've had! Besides the fact I couldn't play any games or watch DVD's. The problems I had with those other cards (Asus V6600's) were quite different than the problems I'm having with this card. If it was a faulty power supply, wouldn't it be the same problem instead of different things?

My father doesn't understand the significance of finding out EXACTLY what they do to the computer and telling me. I'd like to know what they do to it, so I can report it to people like you. I really don't know much about building computers; otherwise I'd do it myself. I don't have all this hardware to try out here. I would hope that they did all that when they determined it was a bad video card. Anyways, thanks again for the advice.

 

[Flyboy]

You remember me talking about the sripe down the middle where everything is a shade lighter than everything else around it? Well, it was still there, just as noticable if not more noticable than before.

Well according to him it really didn't fix the problem. He's had troubles with almost every vid card he's put in it. To me that has to point to either the power supply or the motherboard. In fact there has been a rash of bad A7V333 it seems. I read this in another thread. But your right about the AGP voltage settings. Its possible he's frying every card he puts in it. He should definitely check this out as well as the powersupply.

I'm suprised others haven't repsonded to this post. There's guys that know a hell of a lot more about this stuff than me.

Crash, AMD_MAN, FatBurger, OldBear? Can you guys help us out here? What do you think?

 

[Rebe7254]

So what exactly do I need to do in the BIOS? How do I know what readings are stable. By the way, my CPU is running too hot to boot. Before I put it in my computer, a few guys in the CPU forum told me the retail fan/heatsink would be more than sufficient as long as I didn't overclock. Well, at IDLE my cpu is running at 57-58 degrees celcius (134-136 F). And my motherboard temps are said to be high also at 27-29 celcius (83-86 F). Ya reckon if I stuck 50 fans on the case and a few more inside it would run cool enough? Geez.

 

[Flyboy]

Granted 57 degrees is warm but it should boot and run. I believe the Athlon is rated much higher than that. If I recall, it's rated to 70 degrees Celcius (maybe higher I can't remember). I set up my cousin's computer and hers hit 57 degrees under full load and showed absolutely no sign of instability. Her's is an Athlon 1.2 running on an A7V133.

But, if your worried about it, it sure doesn't hurt to put a better HSF combo on it. If anything it may prolong the life of the CPU.

In the BIOS look for the Voltage levels. In mine I believe its under Power Management or something like that. It'll tell you what the voltage is supposed to be and also what it actually is. So if it says +5V for the 5 volt rail but you see it swing down to +4V then you've got bad PS problems. It shouldn't even swing more than .1 Volts I believe...

 

[Rebe7254]

I haven't had any shutdowns or anything from the processor overheating. I'm only worried about it because a lot of people I talk to say they wouldn't want theirs running that warm at full load, not to mention at idle.

So I went to the BIOS to check the voltages:
For +3.3V - 3.28
For +5.0V - 4.91
For +12V - 12.78

I also have a program called Hmonitor that tell CPU temps, fanspeeds and stuff. It has a reding for "Core" and it shows red at 1.78. I dunno if that's anything to worry about or not.

Thanks for helping me, Flyboy. I don't quite understand why everyone else is ignoring my posts, but I'm gracious for your assistance.

 

[Rebe7254]

So are those voltages ok and everything?

 

[chuck232]

Those voltages are fine.

My firewall tastes like burning.

 

[chuck232]

I can't seem to find what proc you're using. 57 degrees is fine under full load. If that's idle, you could have a problem.

My firewall tastes like burning.

 

[Rebe7254]

AMD Athlon XP 1900+ @1600 MHz. It is running 57 at IDLE. Not at full load. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

 

[chuck232]

oh ok............ that may be kinda high. Have you seen what it runs at under ful load? That's what really matters.

My firewall tastes like burning.

 

[Rebe7254]

Well, I'm really new to all this stuff. What do I need to do to get it under full load? I mean, I don't know if I should push it to full load cause I don't wanna damage it. If it runs that high at idle, it surely is way too hot when at full load. Or not?

 

[Rebe7254]

Nevermind, I got it. Ok, at full load my temp maxed out between 65.5 and 66.0 degrees celcius.

 

[chuck232]

That's a bit higher than average, but it still should be fine. What temp monitor are you using?

My firewall tastes like burning.

 

[Flyboy]

Yeah, that is pretty high. Did you install the heatsink and fan yourself? It definitely wouldn't hurt to redo the HSF installation and maybe get a better HSF combo.

I have no idea why nobody else is helping you out besides me and Chuck. Maybe these "forum fixtures" are just tired of helping newcomers and want to do nothing but discuss the upcoming new hardware. I guess you should have titled your post either something controversial (i.e. AMD or INTEL sucks...) or exciting (i.e. A Dual Channel DDR motherboard!).

Did you ever find out what powersupply you have?

 

[Rebe7254]

The only thing I've ever done myself is put the GF4 Video card in a few weeks ago. I did not install the heatsink myself or anything. Do ya think I'll be able to cool it good enough without paying a lot for another fan/heatsink? Maybe some case fans or something?

No, I didn't find out about the powersupply because my dad's business was closed today and I didn't have a chance to find out. I'll make sure to find out tomorrow.

I've thought about changing the title, but I just figured that would more likely piss everyone off. Anyway, thanks again....

 

[Flyboy]

Hmm...I just wonder why it gets so hot with the default HSF. It surely wouldn't hurt to spend $10 - $15 on a chassis fan. I assume you already have at least one fan (intake fan) in the chassis, right? If so, you should try to put in an exhaust fan in the back of the chassis. Also try to tie the IDE and power cables in a way that promotes better airflow. Other than this, you have no other alternative to cooling your CPU more short of buying a better HSF.

About changing the title...yeah I wasn't serious about doing it, but I was trying to solicit a response from some of the regulars here. I'm totally baffled why they aren't offering any advice. I swear I see a lot of them post in flame wars and for discussing new hardware, but not for troubleshooting.

Definitely check that powersupply! One more thing, have you tried removing all other non-essential hardware (PCI devices)? I know this can be painful, but it may help you figure out what's going on.

BTW, thanks Chuck for posting!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Flyboy on 05/27/02 04:48 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Flyboy]

By the way, since your not sure your problem is graphics related, you may want to try posting in the CPU forum. That forum gets a lot of activity. Also, make sure you post as much detail as possible regarding the hardware and software (Brands, models, operating system, drivers, etc.) if you post again. I think your more likely to receive help if you are as detailed as possible.

 

[chuck232]

I looked at this thread a couple times before posting too. I really didn't know how to help out and I'd think that some of the more experienced forum people aren't really into trouble shooting. They don't want to "waste their time". I try to help as much as possible, but I'm not really too too savvy about problems so I try to help only where I can instead of giving stupid replies.

My firewall tastes like burning.

 

[chuck232]

Oh.. I just reread those older posts and do I get this right? You are having graphic problems with you monitor? So it's your monitor/drivers that is having the problem? Well I see two easy solutions.

1. You try out some of the other Detonator drivers. (this is the easy way)
2. You try a different monitor or plug your monitor into a different machine.

Even if it is only a monitor/driver problem you still may want to do something about that heat. I'm sure a better HSF would improve things greatly.

My firewall tastes like burning.

 

[Rebe7254]

I have posted something about my CPU over-heating in the CPU forum. Not much action there either.

I'm not having problems anymore right now since I took that card out of it (PNY G4 Ti4400). Right now I have a GF2 MX and everything runs fine. The replacement GF4 it supposed to be here Wednesday, so that's when I'm gonna send the computer over and have fans put on it too. All those problems in the old posts have gone away now, except for the stripe down the middle of the screen where everything is lighter - and I guess I can live with that if it means I would have to replace the monitor. It has the stripe with both Detonator 28.32 and 23.11

As far as messing around with the hardware, I'm not gonna do that because I don't know the first thing about putting a computer together really. I was impressed with myself that I put the video card in, and even my dad helped me with that. I can copy your messages and give them to the techs at the office though.

 

[bront]

It's likely a monitor issue with the stripe, especialy if it only appears on some resolutions. The best way to test that is to have someone else hook up the monitor to another computer. Try it at different resolutions, and find which ones are the problem ones.

If it does happen to be a driver issue, you might have to wipe every aspect of the driver from the computer before you reinsall either version. If that doesn't work, a reformat might be in order.

Note, that a bad video card can damage a monitor in some instances, as well as other components of a computer.

"Search your feelings you know it to be true, I am your... twin sister" - Darth Vader

 

[williamc]

Ah, i'd have to guess that the guys that build your pc just stuck the HSF on the proc with nothing in between...10 bucks at compusa will buy you some Silver Thermal II compound. If you feel like tryin that stuff and need instructions, just ask. Don't feel like typin it out for nothing right now.

57 fans is completely unneccessary but 4 is good sense. 2 intake 2 exhaust.

the Fan on an Athlon XP should turn a good 4000 rpm to cool the HeatSink sufficiently assuming you have a half-way decent heatsink.

Your motherboard is likely just fine as is your power supply probably (once again, assuming its 300+watts)

Without being able to sit down with the pc there's really no way i can come up with more suggestions other than reattaching the HSF with Artic Silver II Thermal Compound properly if they didnt do that. (And thats really probably not gonna help problems, just give your pc a longer life).

The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out