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Fastest video card for AMD Athalon 800?

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  • Graphics Cards
  • AMD
  • Graphics
Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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June 9, 2002 2:22:18 PM

I have an AMD 800 with a Gforce 256 now as my primary system. I usually upgrade single parts at a time and rotate the parts down to other computers to make them faster. I am waiting for the new AMD chips that run cooler to come out this fall/winter to upgrade my CPU, but wanted to get a better video card now. The card I buy however will be staying in the 800 when I upgrade though, as I will be buying the latest/greatest video when I get my new processor.

So my question is, since many of the current top of the line video cards will be bottlenecked by my Processor, about what is the best card that I can get without passing the break point where you don't see improvements anymore? I was thinking about the GForce 3 ti500, which benches about 3 times faster than my Gforce256 would be a good card for the price/performance ratio, being that it will be my secondary computer by the end of the year.... but is that overkill, or can I pump it up a little more?

Thanks ahead of time..

Lon

More about : fastest video card amd athalon 800

June 9, 2002 4:40:26 PM

If it's going to stay with the Athlon 800 (or even if it's not) you should consider the Radeon 8500 or 8500LE.

I invite you to take a look at <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&..." target="_new">my other thread</A> then look at the <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1608" target="_new">Sub $200 Video Card article at Anandtech.com</A>. Concentrate on the CPU Scaling results. You should find your answer.

<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 06/09/02 12:41 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 9, 2002 4:41:33 PM

i think you can also buy a geforce4 graphics card which is faster than this card.
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June 9, 2002 9:22:20 PM

but the geforce 4 costs a little more and will provide about the same fps as the r8500 because of his cpu speed
June 9, 2002 10:07:33 PM

Thanks for that scaling link!
Looks like GForce3 TI200 it is... I can get it for $117 and the only ones that really beat it are $200 and up.... alsoit looks to be right around the flat line that if I got a much faster card on an AMD800, I would be wasting money as the processors on the faster cards scale better to faster CPUs, and the slower ones stay flatlined.... so this card is about perfect, and a good price.

As for the ATI- Because I HATE ATI with a passion. I have been doing computer support for 12 years, and saw so many problems related to ATI drivers that I can't stand it. I hear the drivers are finally good for the last year or so, but they already left to bad of a taste in my mouth. I still do support in the field daily, and any time you want to upgrade your drivers, good freaking luck, as you have about a 15-20% chance of the card being list under the same name in Video Properties as it is on their site looking for the drivers. And they can't even put the damn list of drivers in alphabetic order or anything.... meaning to me the are crappy to even the smallest level of detail. I also have only read the the picture quality is almost always better on NVidia, even when the ATI card occasionally keeps up with the bench marks.

Why do all retail PC's have ATI cards?? Because they buy the cheapest part they can for each piece... and I hate cheap.
June 9, 2002 10:43:23 PM

Quote:

any time you want to upgrade your drivers, good freaking luck, as you have about a 15-20% chance of the card being list under the same name in Video Properties as it is on their site looking for the drivers.

How hard is it to know the Radeon 8500 is also known as the R200?

Quote:

And they can't even put the damn list of drivers in alphabetic order or anything.... meaning to me the are crappy to even the smallest level of detail.

Huh? They don't list drivers, they list products, and then you click on drivers. Have you seen ATI's updated website? It's been vastly improved.

Quote:

Why do all retail PC's have ATI cards?? Because they buy the cheapest part they can for each piece... and I hate cheap.

No, it's simply because ATI has been in the market for much longer than nVidia.

IMO, that's some pretty empty excuse for not getting an ATI R8500 card which will be superior to the TI200 and cheaper, in the case of the R8500 OEM at Newegg. Then again, it's your decision.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
June 9, 2002 10:47:11 PM

ah, a personal welcome to THGC:)  The Ti200 will serve u well.

My frog asked me for a straw...dunno what happened he's all over the place :eek: 
June 9, 2002 11:11:28 PM

Hey AMD_Man whatever happened to your ATI Maxx project?

--
Meow
June 9, 2002 11:24:55 PM

I'm finishing it next week. I delayed it until after school was over because I was busy with maybe a dozen different final projects and exams for school.

You'll notice that I haven't been posting much lately.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
June 10, 2002 12:49:26 AM

Please edit that Athalon name, ugghhhh, it's one of the most annoying kind of name errors people do!

I still wonder how they get the A inside the T and L when they are both on the right side of the keyboard...

--
Meow
June 10, 2002 1:06:50 AM

maybe it's b/c the sound similar?

My frog asked me for a straw...dunno what happened he's all over the place :eek: 
June 10, 2002 9:02:42 PM

Ever said Athlon and Athalon in English? They sound different.

--
Meow
June 10, 2002 10:13:17 PM

I only write in english, i don't speak it :tongue: they don't sound that far off

My frog asked me for a straw...dunno what happened he's all over the place :eek: 
June 11, 2002 12:14:17 AM

"How hard is it to know the Radeon 8500 is also known as the R200? "
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It's not hard if I own one.... but like I said, I do computer support. For small businesses.... I see 200mhz Pentium MMX to 2ghz P4s every day.... Mostly cheap ones, mom&pop shop machines, packerd bells, Acers, Dells, Compaqs.... Every single day... do I really need to memorize the 3-4 different driver names each card might show in properties to download the correct driver each time?? How about when the say 'ATI Xpert 2000/Rage Pro'??? Jesus!! Does it say that on their web-site?? No, it has both listed individually... AND Rage Fury Pro, Rage 128 Pro, Rage LT Pro, Xpert 2000, and Xpert 2000 Pro.... Freaking great... let's hope I am not at a client that has a 56k modem so I can take my time playing the guessing game on downloads waiting for the driver that doesn't say 'This card is not detected in your system'..... it's not like I can pull the card and get a good part # off of it like any Intel, 3Com, Adaptec, etc, etc.... card and find it real quick... just start searching on all the #'s you see on the card, no standardization here either on part #s either. At least on OEM USR Robotics modem part # is standard on every single time, it is in xxxx-xxxx format... can search on that # on google and find the part....
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"Huh? They don't list drivers, they list products, and then you click on drivers. Have you seen ATI's updated website? It's been vastly improved. "

Yes. I am there every single week it seems. Are you arguing with my semantics here or about how good their web site is for ease of use of downloading the drivers?? The drop down list is in random order as far as I can tell to pick the 'Product' you want a driver for.... my only assumption is that they are listed in chronological order by release date?? I can see that as a question on 'Who Wants To Be A Millionaire' for the first 10 people who want to be contestants..... 'OK... the first person to answer this question correctly will be our first contestant tonight.... Place these 4 ATI video cards in chrological order from first to last by release date. A) XCLAIM CR 128 B) ATI Rage XC C) ATI ALL IN WONDER PRO (that was a seller in the 486 days!!) D) ATI 3D CHARGER (OMG!! when I clicked on this one it opens the RAGE IIC drivers page.... which was also on the list.... I really don't need this..... )

It's starting to come down to Total Cost of Ownership now my friend... these people are paying $75 an hour for me to find this crap for them when I could just use the 1 standard NVidia driver I have burned on a CD I carry with me..... And if they bought a really cheap system, all for a video card that cost $7 less.... (We get whatever el-cheapo ATIs for $34, and a cheap TNT2 for $41 for business users that just want a cheap PC.... trust me.... you will be happier supporting the $41 card.... unless you are just trying to rip the customer off all you can for the added service calls they will make for the next 2 years)

--------------------------------------------------------
LONMAX:Why do all retail PC's have ATI cards?? Because they buy the cheapest part they can for each piece... and I hate cheap.
"No, it's simply because ATI has been in the market for much longer than nVidia. "
--------------------------------------------------------
mmm... Did you make this up??

Is that the latest business model for being a market leader in the home PC Market?? 'No, we don't use the fastest.... we don't use the most stable.... we don't even use the Cheapest!! We use the OLDEST!!'.....
I assume that is a quote from as least 1 of the companies that failed in the .com crash.... I guess it kind of in a twisted way supports why even top name brand manufacturers don't use CAS2 memory even in their proclaimed 'Workstation' machines.... not because the slower memory is cheaper... but because it has been around longer!!! That's the ticket!! :) 

----------------------------------------------------------
"IMO, that's some pretty empty excuse for not getting an ATI R8500 card which will be superior to the TI200 and cheaper, in the case of the R8500 OEM at Newegg. Then again, it's your decision."

I can respect what you are saying, if you are an End User.... even if you are a bad ass overclocking/programming end user.... because you bought a few individual ATI cards iver the years that rated well and were stable because of your clean windows system, saved money, etc..... I could imagine I would think the same thing if that was the way I experienced things. I am not flaming you, I am telling you why I hate ATI. But if you are an actual person who does this kind of support for a living and has done it over 7 years... then this is a flame full on :) . Just like 1 AMD 1000 chip will overclock to 1300.... another will not overclock at all. One of the main things you are buying with an ATI card is a bigger chance for a lemon..... a small chance it is... but like .002 chance on a better card, and a 1.8 chance on an ATI card... both very small numbers.... unless you have installed (what seems like) thousands of video cards in your life.... and updated drivers 10 times more than that.
---------------------------------------------------------
"ah, a personal welcome to THGC:)  The Ti200 will serve u well."

NVidia fan are we?? Thanks a lot for the really infomative post you gave that put another Email in my inbox that had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QUESTIONS I ASKED!!!!!

(psssst..... Flamethrower205.... work with me here.... I am with you, but I didn't want that guy up there to think as a new poster on these forums that I was ripping on him..... see.... I saw his answer before I left for work this morning, and all day this ATI rage built up in me and I could not get on the web to post it out!! I justs didn't want him to think I singled him out!!)

Anyawy...... sorry AMD but you said "that's some pretty empty excuse for not getting an ATI R8500 card which will be superior to the TI200 and cheaper"

So I had to extrapulate my post to make it as full as I could. 12 years of frustuation came out in my post.... I have a freaking 800mhz with a GForce256. It is as fast as many 1.6Ghz PCs we sell customers 6 months after the user had them.... that's why I format and reinstall 2-5 times a year. I know if I bought any $100+ ATI card right now it would blow my gf256 away.... It would PROBABLY..... (less chance than other brands) be just fine support wise ONLY because I run a very clean system, and I would like it (performance/quality wise).... but that 1 card would not do a damn thing to relieve the stress that all the others have caused me and will continue to do so.

Last thing.... I have AD and bad memory as far as unimportant things go (like the 42 aliases 1 ATI card can go through....) but here is my timeline I remember, just briefly of what was hot and what was not.... but and paste and add what you remember.


286-486 days - All you new was S3=slow and stable, but Diamond had the 'Top of the Line' stuff....

486-P1 - I think the ATI All In Wonder came out somewhere in here.... really crappy card for gamers and business users, but did all that Wonder stuff.... no clue what it did as I had no desire to know... but I think it did like 2 other things other than show DOS or Windows for Workgroups 3.11 on you monitor.....

Same period---- diamond has all the 'Multi-Media' stuff.... CDROMs are up to 2x and 4x!!! Creative Labs cant do quite as much in 1 set for the money, but everything is compatible and they only need 2 IRQs assigned, not 3 like all the Diamond kits!!

Well... there is to much left to keep going.... Hercules.... Diamond Lightspeed 2meg card (I still have one in my closet :)  didn't get rid of it when I threw away the SCO Xenix 5.25 floppies earlier this year) Matrox, Guillemont, Sound Blaster (Opened with a few hit speed demons that lasted for a month or less on the charts), TNT2 (Never heard of NVidia when these guys were the top myself... but that is around when they really got good and started the 1 stop shop for drivers....)


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by lonmax on 06/10/02 08:30 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 11, 2002 3:00:35 AM

Quote:
(psssst..... Flamethrower205.... work with me here.... I am with you, but I didn't want that guy up there to think as a new poster on these forums that I was ripping on him..... see.... I saw his answer before I left for work this morning, and all day this ATI rage built up in me and I could not get on the web to post it out!! I justs didn't want him to think I singled him out!!)

If you are talking about me say anything you like. Won't bother me one bit. I'm not exactly an ATI fan myself. Was once but that was prior to the Rage+, RageII, Rage 128, and Rage PRO days. Never had much luck with the drivers for that series. I hung onto an All-in-Wonder because TV in a Window was convenient. Used Voodoo1 for gaming. After that I used nVidia cards until about a week ago when I bought a Radeon 8500LE. For $99 it was worth getting over my hangups with ATI. I mean, I've read enough information about ATI to make an informed decision. I'm still not a fan of ATI but I am a fan of the 8500 family of video cards. My choice. I thought I was doing you a favor suggesting the same to you. Good performance for your old system and not a very big investment. I was in no way trying push it as the only choice (which is why I gave you the scaling link). I just thought it was worth considering.

Might I suggest, the next time you ask a recommendation if you have already ruled out something say so at the start so we won't waste your time and ours.



<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 06/10/02 11:04 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 11, 2002 10:46:19 AM

Huh?? I was talking about the AMD guy, who pulled out parts of my post and answered them, then stated "IMO, that's some pretty empty excuse for not getting an ATI R8500".... so I gave him an excuse that was not empty.

If you read my second post in the thread, to YOU I said "Thanks for that scaling link!
Looks like GForce3 TI200 it is... I can get it for $117 and the only ones that really beat it are $200 and up.... alsoit looks to be right around the flat line that if I got a much faster card on an AMD800, I would be wasting money as the processors on the faster cards scale better to faster CPUs, and the slower ones stay flatlined.... so this card is about perfect, and a good price."

Ruled out?? Because it was only 99.8% ruled out. If there was a clear, definitive winner on a 800MHZ machine from ATI that was at least $30-40 less than the NVidia, I MIGHT buy it because it was going into my secondary CPU. My rant came because an ATI Fanboi called my excuses for Not wanting an ATI 'lame', and when that happens, I will defend my position.
June 11, 2002 11:34:03 AM

Hehe, you look like a prime candidate for ATIMax!

<A HREF="http://members.rogers.com/amd_man/" target="_new">Link - ATIMAX</A>

It will download drivers for you automatically based on your system configuration and testing from me on the various systems I have at home.

You'll be most interested in this image <A HREF="http://members.rogers.com/amd_man/ATIMax6.JPG" target="_new">here</A>.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
June 11, 2002 11:48:04 AM

Quote:
'ATI Xpert 2000/Rage Pro'

The ATI Xpert 2000 has the Rage 128 chip. You simply search for ATI Xpert 2000.

Quote:

The drop down list is in random order as far as I can tell to pick the 'Product' you want a driver for.... my only assumption is that they are listed in chronological order by release date??

I can see, you haven't seen this page:

<A HREF="http://www.ati.com/products/builtdesktoppc.html" target="_new">http://www.ati.com/products/builtdesktoppc.html&lt;/A>


Quote:

mmm... Did you make this up??

Is that the latest business model for being a market leader in the home PC Market?? 'No, we don't use the fastest.... we don't use the most stable.... we don't even use the Cheapest!! We use the OLDEST!!'.....

No, I didn't make it up. I'm not saying OEMS put ATI cards in systems because they are cheaper. It's just that ATI has been in the market for a longer period of time and so they have more OEM connections than nVidia.

The fact that OEMs use older products is a separate matter. They do it to sell bargain-basement systems.

Quote:

but like .002 chance on a better card, and a 1.8 chance on an ATI card...

Where are you getting these numbers? Are you referring to software or hardware. No where does it even hint that ATI has more faulty hardware. If it's software, then fixing it is simple. In the worst case, you'll need to reformat and reinstall windows and everything else.

Besides, ATI now has unified drivers. Up from the Rage 128, one driver fits all!

Hey man, but if your job is to support computers (both hardware and software), then that's your job. I'd love to be in the position you're in now! Tinkering with hardware and software is my LIFE! LOL! :wink:




:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
June 11, 2002 3:58:11 PM

Your second post was a reply to JohnP, not me. Your last post was a reply to yourself, not me. This is a forum if you want to speak to one person either name him or at least reply to the right person, please.

Hmmm, I concluded the Ti4200 was the top choice. I'll have to look at the article again. About a month ago I came to the conclusion that it's a great card for even a low-end system. For some games a more powerful system or video card doesn't gain you much if anything, at least according to those scaling benchmarks. In other games the card scales extremely well with a better system, specifically the newer games, which means it's also good choice for a system that will be expanded beyond low-end.

The Ti4200 would have been my choice except being only a casual gamer, and on a tight budget, I decided the Radeon 8500LE OEM (which turned out to be a Radeon 8500 OEM and highly overclockable to boot) was a better value at $99 than a Ti4200 at about $154 (street price). I decided to pocket the $55 difference and apply it to my next upgrade down the road.

<b>Update</b>
Sorry, I thought you said you chose the Ti4200. I tried to stop, and thought I had, my reply. Please accept this reply in favor of the one that probably arrived in your Email in-box.


<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 06/11/02 12:03 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 11, 2002 5:21:50 PM

I said "Second post in this thread" was to you. Thank you for the scaling link. The the 4200 only benches 1-10 frames per second more on a 800mhz PC depending on the test... most are closer to 1 frame more, only 1 was 10... so I picked the Ti300 at about $115 over the 4200 that is $200 or so, I think. Ti300 flatlines though as speed goes up, while the 4200 just gets faster.... so probably at about 1Ghz and higher the 4200 is actually worth the cash/performance if you (anyone) even care, and depending on what you do.

AMD Man, Thank You for the Links!! :)  yes, a unified driver would make me very happy.

And sorry I posted that rant after tossing a few (or more.... ) beers after work with some friends.....
!