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new graphics card

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June 15, 2002 9:11:20 PM

right heres a silly question...
i have a kg7 and iu had a tbird @ 1.33ghz and everything ran like a dream..
but then sadly i had to go to a duron @ 1066mhz and somethings have gone bad and somethings arent working as they should...
i have a geforce 2 ultra in the system, its brilliantly fast and great to play games with so i want to upgrade it.
the other day i built a friend a system that i have been longing to have, kg7, xp amd, geforce 3 ti200, etc etc. and i realised how good everything was on his system and its made me want something just as good..
now is the problem as i see it..
as i have a fast graphics card, theres not much point in me getting something a little bit faster as there wont be that much difference.. so in other words i want a big jump from what i have to what i want to get..
now heres the thought..
i want an xp 1800 so that i have a good cpu with a good stable motherboard.. firstly that will speed up the graphics card to what it was before and maybe a bit faster again..
secondly i want to get a better card.. but what?
i was thinking of a geforce ti 4400 (theres not that much difference between the ti 4400 and the ti 4600, apart from the price!! not that i can see anyway... apart from a few fps here and there, i aint really going to miss it like that...) but then i was thinking of getting a ati 8500.. i know these are both great cards, but what should i do?
im not sure what would be a good big step of an upgrade rather than a little step forward, and i also want to push this cpu and motherboard config to the max.. and also, is it worth upgrading to 512mbs of ram? i have 256mbs and always thought this was enough.. any ideas?
if anyone can help i would be most pleased..

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...

More about : graphics card

June 16, 2002 1:01:44 AM

If you have WinXP, 256MB of RAM is a bare minimum and 512 would help out a lot. If you were going for a R8500, you may as well wait till R300/RV250 come out. The RV250 will perform better than the R8500 and should cost about the same. If you want the card right now, I'd go for a Ti4400 if I had the money or a R8500 if I didn't. A Ti4200 128MB and Ti4400 cost almost the same. If you go for a R8500, you can get a 128MB version for ~$150 or a 64MB version for ~$120.

My firewall tastes like burning. :eek: 
June 16, 2002 9:42:09 AM

i use win98 at the minute, so i wasnt sure whether or not to get more memory, i thought 256mbs was enough for win98 or else it started to slow down down a little..
i think i might have the money within a month or so, so what would you sugguest?
i personnaly think when a new card comes out its best to wait a bit so that the price drops a little, so you are paying such a premium... is that a good idea or not ?
when is the next ati card coming out and so would it be better to hang on and wait for that? i want to get the best value and the best speed, as i think after maybe a 1yr and a half with the ultra, we need some more speed!! its still a hughly fast card and i have nothing against it, but it sadly doesnt support directx 8 or some of the new things that are in the latest benchmarks, like vertex shading etc...
what would be best with an xp 1800 in mind as i only have a duron 950 @ 1066 at the moment? (its using a 133 fsb, but im not really sure that its going any better... the hard drive seems slow and windows to use seems jerky.. any ideas?)

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
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June 16, 2002 1:29:27 PM

OK, um.... a GF2 Ultra should be more than enough to last you til early this fall, when RV250 and R300 will be out. Along with Parhelia and possibly P10 by then. If your Windows runs slow, maybe you want to reformat your hard drive. How long has it been since your last reformating? Or maybe even defrag it. Should clear it up a bit. If none of that helps, I'd say you probably need some more RAM.

If you haven't got your AXP 1800+ yet, I'd suggest you wait a bit. I mean a Duron 1.1 should do you fine. Maybe til this fall, unless you really need a faster comp right now. Why I say this is cause if you get a XP1800+ right now and stick your GF2 Ultra in there, by the time it comes to fall and you want to upgrade to a RV250 or a R300LE, your proc may already be too slow. Your comp right now is not bad at all so I'd wait.

I mean look at me, I still have a PIII600E with 256MB PC100, GF2 MX, 40gig Maxtor. I don't really play much in the line of high quality games, cause I can't run it, but I'm gonna wait til the middle of next year when Prescott and Hammer are released and maybe a R400 or NV35.

My firewall tastes like burning. :eek: 
June 16, 2002 3:10:52 PM

i have only just installed my windows onto a new hard drive, a maxtor 40 gig ata 133 7200rpm model to be more exact..
since i have changed from the thunderbird that i had to this duron, i have noticed some games havent been running correctly or as they did with the thunderbird.. i know its silly to mention them, but the benchmarks are also down too, by quite a bit.. the duron as far as i can tell is fine for using with mx or gts card, but with the ultra it seems to be killing it some what..
with the speed of windows, with my thunderbird, my new hard drive ran (in sandra 2002 standard) at about 26000, which i thought was great when my old seagate drive was running at about 4000... but with the duron the drive is running (now after sorting out mp3s and music videos etc...) at nearly 20000.. so im still loosing performance...
a game that i have gotten into that is a farily old one is called need for speed - road challenge i think and with the duron with all the same settings as the thunderbird on, it runs very jerky... it really doesnt make me want to play it at all..
i do want a computer thats going to be a lot faster than what i have now, i know it might be a rather difficult task to do or to get, bar going the intel route, but i think that an 1800 xp and a ti4400 or a new ati graphics card is the way to go..
i mean next year is something different altogether, i could buy something else next year and still have this system im using now all sorted out, but just want something even faster..
i guess i just spoil myself when it comes to having something super fast, as i have nothing else much to do with my money, not as such anyway, no house or children to worry about!!
i will and would be suprised if a 1.53ghz cpu would be to slow for a graphics card to use to its near full potential !!
i think i would be happy with a xp 1800 and a geforce ti 4400, i mean who wouldnt ???
as you have most of the things needed for a system anyway, you could spend on a different graphics card, geforce 3 ti 200, kg7, 256mbs ddr or 512mbs ddr and a xp1800 and have a nice system now, and then again when next year comes upgrade it again..
i doubt that all of the bits i have just mentioned would cost over say £300 or so... wouldnt you rather have something for now rather than then? you can always sell it on when this time next year comes.....
thank you for you help...
heres my system rig specs... click on link and see what you think and what i need to upgrade.. probably a better way of doing it...

http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=18250


if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 16, 2002 6:36:53 PM

As for your current config, what version drivers do you have? As for the lower performance, that's predictable since a t-bird 1.33GHz should be quite a bit faster than a Duron 1.1GHz. Now why it's really really bad in some games I'm not really sure. Have you tried the GTS in those games and does it get better or worse? If it's better on a GTS than an Ultra, there's probably something wrong with that card. As for HDD performance, I don't know much about that stuff. If you have loads of money hanging around, you could upgrade your comp, but I'd save that as a last resort. You could try 3DMark2K1 SE and see how you compare to other people with a similar config.


Well since it seems like you really want a new comp, you would probably have to do some serious upgrading to get the most performance out of it. For example your RAM is PC2100 which is good, but you'd get better performance out of PC2700, which would mean you'd have to switch out your mobo too...

Since you're talking in pounds, I don't really know what the stuff in the UK costs. I'll go by USD and switch using a currency converter. I'll try to keep it as close to 300 pounds as possible.

1. SOLTEK SL-75DRV5 (Purple Ray) VIA KT333 (the latest Ver.) DDR/SDRAM 266/200MHz FSB Socket A ATA 133/10/66 ABS II ATX MOTHERBOARD - RETAIL - $82
2. MUSHKIN DDR 512MB PC-2700 - $150
3. AMD Athlon XP 1800+/266 FSB PROCESSOR CPU - RETAIL - $105
4. Radeon 8500 64MB Retail - $129

Total of $466USD = 315.59 pounds.

Pretty close. That's with a VIA KT333 mobo and 512MB of PC2700 RAM and a video card that is quite superior to a Ti200.

My firewall tastes like burning. :eek: 
June 16, 2002 6:48:07 PM

well, im not so bothered about me upgrading the motherboard as of yet and i was recommending it to the gentleman that was replying to me in the thread!! i believe that was you!!
im happy with the kg7 as i dont believe that theres much point in going to the 333 memory as i would prefer to make a bigger jump, ie too 400 or 466 or what have you..
the ati 8500 over here is about £140, roughly i think its about $180 to $200.., im just guessing that tho..
i think an xp 1800+, another 256mbs of memory and a ti4400 or a r250 or r300 is something nearer to what i think would be best for me, as im looking to spend a reasonable amount of money, but get the best performance from what i buy and pay..
as for the duron v tbird, its (i believe) down to the cache levels, the duron doesnt seem to like anything much more than a mx card, which is right to a point, because running a gts/ultra before, the scores where always down compared to the tbird...
with the tbird and ultra in 3dmark 2001, i manage to get about 4900.. i put together a system for a mate, it was 1800xp, g3 ti 200, 256mbs ddr... after a little overclocking, it managed a nice 6500 score in the same test, i know with a ati8500 its nearer to 9000 isnt it? same sort of performance as the g4 ti 4400... or 4200..
what do you think?

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 16, 2002 7:39:55 PM

Quote:
with the tbird and ultra in 3dmark 2001, i manage to get about 4900.. i put together a system for a mate, it was 1800xp, g3 ti 200, 256mbs ddr... after a little overclocking, it managed a nice 6500 score in the same test, i know with a ati8500 its nearer to 9000 isnt it? same sort of performance as the g4 ti 4400... or 4200..
what do you think?

9000 is a reasonable expectation for the Radeon 8500, an XP 1800+, and DDR. You might even score higher. I score 7959 with an overclocked Radeon 8500 OEM (@ 275/300), a Tbird @1500 mhz, and only SDRAM. For kicks I underclocked my system to 600 mhz, FSB at only 100 mhz, memory at 100 mhz, Radeon OEM at stock speed (250/275). This combo scored 4600 3Dmarks. (I was trying gauge the 8500 for use in my Nephew's Duron based system).

I don't even have a guess what a Ti4200 or Ti4400 would do.


<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
June 16, 2002 7:58:22 PM

so in your eyes, is it worth me trying to get hold of a ATI 8500 RETAIL rather than a Geforce 4 ti 4400? I was trying to convience myself to get one, because of the execllent price to performance, which is really what im looking for. but i do read that some tests the ati 8500 cant out perform a geforce 3 ti 200 and i think in one test it cant out perform a geforce 2 ultra!! is this right or where the drivers used in those tests not up to date?
id just love to try and get 10000 3d marks from 2001se.. at the moment, im not even getting 5000 and it does some what bug me as I havent ever seen any of the other tests, as my geforce 2 ultra card doesnt support some of the tests featured.. bummer...
do you think its worth me getting another 256mbs of DDR memory? i have already 256mbs, would i benifit from 512mbs of ddr? im running win98 and really just play games..
and one more quick enquiry, is a 1800 xp the best price to performance xp chip about now? or is it still the xp1700...?
thank you!! i really appreate all the help!! from everyone that includes!!


if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 16, 2002 8:38:04 PM

Quote:
do you think its worth me getting another 256mbs of DDR memory? i have already 256mbs, would i benifit from 512mbs of ddr? im running win98 and really just play games..
and one more quick enquiry, is a 1800 xp the best price to performance xp chip about now? or is it still the xp1700...?
thank you!! i really appreate all the help!! from everyone that includes!!

Like I said I don't really know about Ti4200, and all, vs 8500. Seen some review that put an 8500 as high as Ti4400 level for some tests but I've seen others where the 8500 was lower than the Ti4200 in all of the tests.

I can say the Ti4200 was my top choice until I came across the bargin which I purchased. The card was supposed to be a Radeon 8500LE OEM (230/230) for $99 but user comments indicated the card was shipping with 3.3ns memory and default clocks of 250/275. The card I received was an ATI OEM 8500 (Not LE and not ATI partner but genuine ATI). Anyway it overclocks beyond the default of a Retail 8500, in fact, it overclocks to 305/325. I'm not bragging (well maybe a little). The point I am trying to make for $99 I could the above card. The best price I could find for a Ti4200 was $155 (sorry british pound conversions take too long).

The Ti4200 may peform better (but as I said, I'm not sure). However, at $155 vs $99, I think the performance is close. I certainly didn't see enough justification to speend the extra W for the Ti4200. I know the Ti4200 has amazing overclocking potential but I don't see it outperforming an overclocked 8500 by that same 57%.

I expect with an extra 256MB of DDR you'lll see much benefit for your gaming experience. I mostly use 256MB SDRAM, also with Windows 98SE. When I add 128MB I don't see any significant improvement.

From my favorite US vendor Newegg.com here are the current prices for OEM Athlon XPs

1500 - $77
1600 - $80
1700 - $89
1800 - $99
1900 - $132

For me the XP 1800+ would be the sweet pick and the 1600+ is nice bargain. If you look at UK prices I'm sure you can see your best price point.




<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
June 16, 2002 8:49:14 PM

Quote:
well, im not so bothered about me upgrading the motherboard as of yet and i was recommending it to the gentleman that was replying to me in the thread!! i believe that was you!!

Yeah I guess i didn't read your post well, but since you said you wanted a really good system, the best you could get so...

A GF4 Ti4400 is about $250USD on average and a R8500 128MB RETAIL is $160. That's quite a big difference. A Radeon 8500 compares to a Ti4200 more. A Ti4200 128MB being about $180-190. One thing.... a GF3 Ti200 outperforms the Ultra by a bit. If you have the money go for the extra RAM. As Phsstpok said the best AXP chip is probably the XP1800 in terms of price/performance.

My firewall tastes like burning. :eek: 
June 16, 2002 8:58:05 PM

Ok... was definately thinking of the xp1800 anyway, as for the graphics card i feel i'm sold towards the ati 8500 due to its price/performance ratio...
does the 8500 drivers for the card come with the overclocking ability or as with nvidia do i have to download a reg hack?
as for the extra memory i will leave it until i have got the cpu and graphics card and see whether its worth it performance wise...
what ati 8500 cardis best to get i.e. retail oem or even the 8500 Le version with 128meg of ram?
thanks for the tips, will get the card and cpu then will post again with updates...

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 16, 2002 9:08:28 PM

like i said before, is it worth getting rid of the 256 megs of ddr mem i have and getting one 512 ddr 333 simm or is it just worth having another 256 megs of ddr 266?
heard that there could be some compatibility problems with kg7 and different memory simm makes... is this true? and what type of memory is best to get?
i know by the looks of my mates GF3 Ti200 by the benchmarks i have run that it kicks a gf2 ultra into the ground and especially when tested on 3d mark 2001se, it left it standing!!..
this is why i have come to the conclusion that an ati8500, of some description, will be best for me, due to price/performance and news of overclocking potential...
one other question, what would be the best type of ati8500 to get i.e. oem, le, retail or 128mbs version????? answers on a postcard please......
thanks to everyone who has posted in this thread as it has all been a great help... i look forward to posting some benchmarks test scores when i get the above hardware...
cheers for now!!!

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 16, 2002 9:51:13 PM

Quote:
Ok... was definately thinking of the xp1800 anyway, as for the graphics card i feel i'm sold towards the ati 8500 due to its price/performance ratio...
does the 8500 drivers for the card come with the overclocking ability or as with nvidia do i have to download a reg hack?
as for the extra memory i will leave it until i have got the cpu and graphics card and see whether its worth it performance wise...
what ati 8500 cardis best to get i.e. retail oem or even the 8500 Le version with 128meg of ram?

No overclock built-in. Manufacturers never endorse overclocking.

No registry hack. Use a third party utility. I use Power Strip.

Choosing which Radeon 8500 is a little easier is than deciding between Ati and nVidia. With a single model family go by price and memory speed, remembering an 8500LE OEM is usually clocked at 230/230, a Retail 8500LE is at 250/250, an OEM 8500 is usually 250/250, and a retail 8500 is 275/275. You can mostly judge performance by memory speed. The faster the memory the faster the card. GPU performance improves with speed but not by as great a degree as with memory.

Other factors, include overclockability. I don't know how well you can do in this area. I was very lucky finding the 8500. You might also be lucky.

The amount of memory makes some difference. I'm starting see benchmarks where cards with 128MB of memory perform a little better than those with only 64MB. The difference is not much but it is there. Keep in mind that if you only play at say 1024x768 you will be less affected by low memory than if you play at 1600x1200. If you want to play at the higher resolution (and your monitor allows you to do this) then I recommend going for the higher amount of memory. Otherwise, it's your call. I think it will be a long while before 128MB of memory is absolutely essential so if your budget is a concern go with 64MB. Put the difference toward the next upgrade.

Well, that about it for my opinions on this.

<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
June 16, 2002 10:18:44 PM

Tell us how much the R8500LE OEM/RETAIL, R8500LE 128MB OEM/RETAIL, R8500 OEM/RETAIL and R8500 128MB OEM/RETAIL cost. That way we'll be able to better help you out. I know the prices here, but not in the UK. Like you could get a R8500 64MB RETAIL for $130USD, but in pounds converted to USD you said yours would have costed $180.

My firewall tastes like burning. :eek: 
June 17, 2002 7:33:09 PM

here are the prices and the types of card i can get :-

64MB - JETWAY ATI8500 DDR TV/DVI £132
64MB - ATI SAPPHIRE RADEON 8500 LE - £161
64MB - ATI RADEON 8500 LE DDR AGP DVI VO OEM - £166
64MB - ATI RADEON 8500 DV 3D PROPHET ALL IN WONDER AGP TV - £235
64MB - ATI RADEON 8500 DDR AGP RETAIL DVI VO - £175 - i think thats the one, isnt it?
64MB - ATI RADEON 8500 DDR AGP DVI TV DH OEM - £125
128MB - ATI RADEON 8500 LE OEM - £138

or heres some more cards i get from the company i deal with :-

ATI Radeon 8500 64MB DDR AGP Retail - £135 - i think this is the one i want, same as above yeah?
ATI Radeon 8500 LE 64MB DDR AGP OEM - £123
ATI Radeon 8500 LE 128MB DDR + DVI out AGP OEM - £134

i just have no idea what models to get, they are all trying to confuse me!!
but then, here are some prices that i can get the geforce 3/4 series for..

MSI GeForce 4 Ti4400 128MB DDR VIVO Retail - £225
Sparkle GeForce 3 Ti 200 64MB DDR + TV-out AGP - £105 - *
Gainward GeForce 4 Powerpack Ultra/700 XP Golden Sample AGP (Ti-4400 128MB DDR VIVO DVI+DVI) £234

the card marked with the * is the card i installed in a xp1800 ddr system, KG7 motherboard, 256mbs of ram, running win me, and in 3dmark 2001se (i think it was that version) it scores 6500 with no problems, overclocked slightly, but the card didnt work so well when trying it as standard... sadly..
i thought the msi & the gainward geforce 4's where quite nicely priced, but i can get them cheaper than that.. these are the retail prices...
if any one can help me deside, then please do !!
thanks to everyone to recommends me something!!

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 17, 2002 8:32:10 PM

No wonder that you are confused. I didn't see a 128MB 8500 but of the 8500 cards you listed the 64MB Retail version at 135 pounds would have the highest default speeds and should have the highest overclocking. Does it have DVI output and do you need it? DVI is a flat panel interface although most can use the VGA connector also.

What would be the prices of the 8500 (not LE) 128MB for both the Retail and OEM versions?

The 8500 All-in-Wonder would have the most features, VIVO, TV tuning, TV recording, remote control, etc. However it would also be on the low end of gaming performance of the cards you listed and it's not cheap.

The Gainward Ti4400 would have the highest performance of the cards that you listed. It's also one of the most expensive.

I didn't realize video cards were so expensive in the UK!



<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
June 17, 2002 8:42:38 PM

If these are your only choices, then I'd say you should get either a ATi R8500 64MB RETAIL for 135 pounds or a ATi R8500LE 128MB OEM for 134 pounds. The R8500 64MB RETAIL may be able to oc further, but more and more games could use the extra 64MB of RAM plus AA and aniso performance also seems to be affected by the extra RAM. The choice is basically like the choice between a Ti4200 64MB and 128MB. Except here there is no price difference. I'd personally go for the R8500LE 128MB and try to get it to R8500 128MB specs. That's 275/275 core mem. The OEM cards are fitted with 4ns RAM I believe so 250 memory shouldn't be a problem and 275 should be within reach. In FPS games, AA/aniso is quite "important". I mean it's not important as you can't play without it, but it makes the experience much more enjoyable.

As for the GF3/4 cards. I'd only go for the GF4 Ti4400 if you had money to spare. It would be somewhat wasted, and you could put the saved money towards extra RAM or maybe a R300 or NV30.

My firewall tastes like burning. :eek: 
June 17, 2002 8:51:40 PM

is it just worth getting a geforce 3 ti 200 and then saving the money up for something better later on or is it worth getting the ati 8500 128mbs le version?
i believe that the geforce 3 ti 200 is more enough performance, for now, but can obvously be upgraded later in life...
with the money saved from buying the geforce card, would it be worth getting another 256mbs of memory?
im not so bothered about flat screens (lcd) because i wont ever be buying or getting one, i dont like them...
a hell of a lot of things are very expensive in the uk..
take petrol.. 72.9p per LITRE!! about £3.30 a gallon!!
and thats just one thing....

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 17, 2002 9:01:00 PM

what are the drivers like for the ati at the moment? are they getting better or worse?
benchmarks are some times, some what misleading so it doesnt really help as i cant try the card out myself before i buy... which is a big shame..
overclocking was a part of my plan, but if the card is going to be ineed faster than a geforce 2 ultra, then i dont think that i might worry about it so much!!
i believe that the le version will probably be the best one to get then, it has 128mbs of ram and will be more than fast enough for what i require for this year anyway!! do you think its a big enough of a jump from a geforce 2 ultra ? i just want something thats going to make me dribble with delight and so that i know that im seeing something that is going to be a LOT faster rather than something (for example) geforce 3 ti 200 scores, as it doesnt seem to be that much faster..
i play games in the highest res possible, inc 32bit colour... so let me know what you think...
oh, one silly little question, where do we go to find out how many posts we have made ?
im trying to understand the little things like jorneyman etc.. just wondering really... cheers for all the help...

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 17, 2002 9:04:38 PM

Quote:
a hell of a lot of things are very expensive in the uk..
take petrol.. 72.9p per LITRE!! about £3.30 a gallon!!

You could always walk... goos for the health too. :smile:

Here's how I see it. There's a 30 pound difference and with that you wouldn't be able to get the extra RAM with that, but if that's all you need then go for it. I mean when R300/NV30 come out you could always upgrade then. This product cycle is almost coming to an end, so I guess there isn't much point in getting a top line card right now, only to see it get slaughtered by a card that costs the same with DX9 features.

My firewall tastes like burning. :eek: 
June 17, 2002 9:53:17 PM

OK, now I am confused. Do you mean you are considering buying just a Geforce3 Ti200 to go with your Duron? Or are you still talking about getting the Athlon XP 1800 plus a video card (which is of what I thought we were talking)?

In either case I still think the Radeon 8500 is the better choice. Much better performance than, a Geforce2 class card, better than a Geforce3 Ti200, and the 8500 scales better. Even if you keep your Duron you'll get a boost over what you have now. Look at my other post with 3DMark scores.

Cost is obviously a factor. That 135 pounds is about twice what I paid for an 8500 OEM here in the US. That's about $200 USD. The Ti4400 is what? $350 USD? My choice was easy. I can see why yours is not.

You know , if I had to pay those prices I might just hang on to the Geforce2 Ultra a little longer. The Radeon R250 is supposed to be release this month. That might drive down the 8500 prices. Pick one up cheaper next month.

Don't know what else to tell you except think about what you want today. Put less emphasis on the future. It's just too hard to predict.

<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
June 17, 2002 11:08:01 PM

ATI drivers have improved soo much. They are increasingly putting out more performance from their chips. Their current drivers suite, the "Catalyst" I'd say rivals Nvidia's offering, their "Detonator".

A lot of games nowadays are CPU limited. Although your Duron 1.1GHz is not bad at all, games like Commanche4 won't really run well and others like JKII won't run at really high resolutions. Other games like QuakeIII run at such high framerates, that you won't really even notice.

If I were you this is what I'd do. You CPU is quite adequate for almost everything. You should maybe hold on to your GF2 Ultra or if you really need it go for a GF3 Ti200. Wait until October of this year and do a major upgrade. By then if you didn't buy the Ti200, you'll have saved another 100 pounds. I'm sure by then you'll be able to scrape up ~1000 pounds or so. Then all you'll need to upgrade would be to a Hammer, a new mobo, some RAM, and a new video card, something like a RV250 (which won't be out till R300, ATi is planning to release the 2 together.) or a R300LE. If you think about it, it really won't cost too much. A Hammer will probably be about 250 pounds I'd say, a new mobo, 150 pounds, 512MB of DDR 400 RAM, maybe 200 pounds and a RV250 should come in about the price of a R8500 at launch ~200 pounds, or if you wanted go get a R300LE for about 300 pounds I'd say. If you could save about 800-900 pounds by October, you'll have a mean ass machine. I'm sure you'll be able to hold out till this fall with your current setup. All the other stuff you should be able to reuse from your current system like your monitor and mouse and speakers and so forth. Then you could sell the rest of the stuff in your box. Try to sell them separately, you usually get more for them that way.

BTW, did you try upgrading to the latest drivers? Maybe that'll help a bit. Since you just got a new HDD and installed Windows, maybe your drivers aren't updated.

As for the title stuff, you can just go to "Read Private Msg" in the right hand panel. Look in the FAQ, it tells you the different amount of posts needed before you get to a new title. Congrats on getting to JourneyMan. I have only 802 posts....

My firewall tastes like burning. :eek: 
June 18, 2002 4:29:44 PM

i think i might have it..
im doing this for the ease of upgrading and getting something now and getting something fast, but not earth shattering..
right here goes nothing..

getting an 1800 xp and a geforce 3 ti 200.. maybe add another 256mbs of ram as this is supposed to help.
then when the hammer or whatever comes out next that will be a huge step from what i will have, to what i can get, then i will upgrade to like you said, something with ddr 400, r300 or nv30 or whatever is the fastest card at the time... just to be silly and greedy!!

i should be able to muster some form money by october, hopefully!!!
what do you think i should do with the ultra card? sell or keep hold of?... its a bit of a beast for me!...

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 18, 2002 7:10:39 PM

Quote:
what do you think i should do with the ultra card? sell or keep hold of?... its a bit of a beast for me!...

Well where would you put it. If you have no use for it you may as well it and get some moola for your next upgrade. What you're doing would help out considerably, just it'll cut some of your budget for your next upgrade, which should be more important, a lot of new stuff. I mean if you got the moola, go for it, just if you don't, you may as well hold off.

Upgrades are always good, then you'll be able to beat your friend hopefully and brag and rub it in his face! :smile: Good luck!

My firewall tastes like burning. :eek: 
June 18, 2002 7:23:45 PM

well i know this might sound silly, but after upgrading most of my mates are gasping for breath, saying wow... but some i imagen, are saying.. whats the point!!
but then saying that, most of my friends have Durons with Geforce 2 MX cards, 128mbs of ram etc etc..
i just love computers, whether that means im sad, stupid or just completely loopy, i do it because i like it..
anyway, back to the upgrade..
i have got my cpu, memory, but this graphics card is still bugging the hell out of me...

geforce 2 ultra £250 (yes thats right, and it wasnt the most expensive!!)
geforce 3 ti 200 £106
ati 8500 le 128mb version £135
gainward geforce 4 ti 4400 £240

now, im thinking geforce 4, brain thinking the same, wallet thinking, geforce 3 ti 200, but value for money ati 8500 le...
im thinking it will probably be the gainward card... it just seems right!!
plus then i wouldnt have to worry about upgrading for a little while longer... but then, i would have to go a long way to get from a geforce 2 ultra performance to a geforce 4 ti 4400 typer scale of performance !! wouldnt i????
i hear this matrox card is meant to be rather nice...
might have to have a look at that when it comes out... umms... any ideas when?
anyway... thanks to everyone for helping!! its been a laugh!! i will post results of what i get etc... benchmarks the lot... once again, thanks to all !!

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 18, 2002 7:48:21 PM

Quote:
just love computers, whether that means im sad, stupid or just completely loopy, i do it because i like it..

Oh and you think you're sad, look at me I'm like totally addicted to computers. I stay on these forums for most of my free time trying to help people (like you, which I don't mind) or participating in debates.

NE ways, back to the upgrade.

Ok here's how I see it. If you think that a GF3 Ti200 is all you need right now, then go for it. If you don't think it's enough get the R8500LE, if that's still not enough, then go for a GF4. I really don't think that a GF4 is necessary in your case. Don't let your judgement be affected by anything other than value. I mean if you're trying to compete with your friend, that could really push you in the wrong direction.

When you upgrade to a Hammer or whatever, your GF4 Ti4400 will be like your GF2 Ultra right now. It's not slow at all really, but no longer top-of-the-line material. If you got a GF3, it'll be like a GF2 Ti. It'll still be able to run games fine, but won't really be that good either.As I say again, if you have loads of money hanging out of your wallet, then go for the GF4 Ti, you'll be able to use it with your CPU, but if not, be more conserative and go get a GF3 Ti200. It's not a bad card at all.

I didn't just say what you wanted to hear ("Go for the GF4!!) cause I don't think it's the right choice, if you have to scrounge up that money for it. You'd be much better off saving it for your next upgrade.

As for the Matrox Parhelia, they just "released" it today, but won't be appearing till about the end of this month, or early next month. It'll retail around $400USD for the 128MB model, maybe a bit over your budget.

My firewall tastes like burning. :eek: 
June 18, 2002 8:36:20 PM

well i will say it again and again, the ati 8500 le 128mb version is the best card of them all, it combines price, performance and good looking graphics with speed to match..
i believe that if i can overclock the card, it will perform just as good as a normal retail version would do, but with an extra 64mbs of ram.. which is ideal!!
i think i might have to get one TOMORROW !!
i feel the need for speed coming on!!
i feel that the geforce 4 is a lot for a lot of money, but then by the looks of this matrox card, it will be a stonker!! maybe that might be a next upgrade...
anyway, thank you ever so much for the help and the advice, and i think that within a few days (after me getting over the fact that my pc has transformed into something (parden the term) [-peep-] hot, i will be posting results of benchmarks, before and after, with and without the xp cpu inside.. it will be the best time of my life!!
anyway, i best get going, i dont think i will be sleeping much tonight!!
thank you and will speak soon!!
oh, i think i have about 85 posts now, i think that i might have a few more after i get all this stuff installed!!

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 18, 2002 9:10:58 PM

Good luck to ya "chap"(you're English right?). I'll be lookin forward to those benchies! :smile:

My firewall tastes like burning. :eek: 
June 20, 2002 10:22:32 PM

finally got everything working and boy does it look and go so nice..
oh, i got xp1800 and a ati 8500 128mb LE card...
have a few enquires tho id hoped you guys could help me with..
cpu ideling about 40 when under a load, maybe 60.. i feel its much to high, any ideas on what sort of fan would be best with it? something that does the job but thats not mega loud.. that does do my head in a touch!!
also where would i get the overclocking software for the ati card ? want it as fast a poss!!
here are some speed tests with the card, although as my cpu heat thingy program cut in, the darn scores i think are a little low... so will have to try when i get a better fan!!

http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=3748701

http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=3748695

if you have any ideas on how to make it faster, it would be great, as id like to get the score to 10k for this benchmark...
please help me with the fan thing, i dont want to loose my cpu already!!
thanks for the support guys!!

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 20, 2002 11:19:20 PM

Ok good god that it didn't mess up. I get scared when I recommend something just in case it screws badly. First I wanna ask you, how much did it cost you in the end?

When you put the HSF on the CPU, did you just use the stock thermal pad? If so, then I'd suggest you use some Arctic Silver III and reapply your HSF. See if that helps any. If not, you'll still need the Arctic Silver anyways to put on your new HSF.

If this does not help, then this is what you could do. Get either a ThermalTake Volcano7 or Volcano7+. The Volcano7+ is pretty expensive ~$40USD, the Volcano7 is more like $22USD. The Volcano7+ cools about 5% better than the Volcano7, but overall it is just a better HSF combo. Be careful, the Volcano7 is quite large. The Volcano7+ is a bit smaller. They both don't produce too much noise. The Volcano7+ is one of the best HSF you can get for the SocketA CPUs and the Volcano7 is just a bit behind.

As for an overclocking utility, go get PowerStrip. It's a great comprehensive video card utility, not only for overclocking.

It may be kinda hard to get 10K. The best scores I've seen with a R8500 and your proc is ~9600, that's with the video card overclocked to 300/300. I'm sure if you pushed your CPU too with a new HSF, and got your video card up there, you'll be pushing 10K.

Good luck, don't try anything fancy until you get those CPU temps down a bit.

P.S. What temp monitor are you using?

P.P.S. Oh yeah, also what does it say on the RAM? Can you tell how many nanosecond RAM it is? If not try and post the numbers/letters here and see if I can tell.

What's the deal with lampshades, I mean it's a lamp, why would you want a shade? :smile:
June 21, 2002 2:58:32 PM

hi bud!!
it cost me in total, ati 107 + vat (17.5%), amd xp 1800 (retail) 79 + vat, but the problem was with the fan that they supplied as it was rather say, pants...? oh and i got a 6 bay full tower for 36.50 + vat..
anyway, tried different fans that i have lying about and they didnt help so that wasnt the greatest in the world at all, but have taken a fan off of a heat sink and heat sink off of a fan... and got confused and put the better parts of the two together and it seems to be working rather well at the moment, as its idling about 30 degrees...
i did run some benchmarks last night, but sadly as i have vcool it protects the cpu getting any higher than 50 degrees (my settings) so it cut 50% of the cpu speed, me thinks that the scores that i got, wherent as good as they could have been...
i have just downloaded powerstrip (at a crappy 3.8k a sec) and i will be playing about with it all afternoon..
i would like to see 10k but im not so bothered if i dont... will just have to make sure that the next upgrade that i have will crack 15k!!! i can hope!
im using via's hardware monitor, it seems to be doing fine for the minute....
i will have a look at the memory.. as i know its just crucial memory, but its just a basic ddr2100 memory dimm, nothing really that special... but i will have a look for you anyway...
heres the benchmarks links, i hope they improve with the drivers and the overclock... hehehehehe.. will let you know...

http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=3748701 - xp1800 + ati 8500 card score

http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=3748695 - duron 1066 + ati 8500 card score

http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=3748688 - duron 1066 + ultra card score



had a look at the fan you said about and its about £30 for me over here... is it very loud a fan or is it a quieter model? anyway, must go, got benchmarks to do!!
will definitly talk later!! THANK YOU!"!!!!!!!!!

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 21, 2002 6:31:50 PM

OK here's what you should do. 60 degrees isn't really even too hot for under load, so you should put your vcool program to at least 60 degrees maybe 65.

Oh as for looking at your RAM, I meant on your video card. That way I'll be able to tell about how much the RAM will be able to overclock.

Also, is the case well ventilated? That also could be a problem if a lot of hot air from your CPU is circulating around in your case. Get maybe 2 outtake fans at the back to pull out the hot air. Make sure you have a place where cool air can flow in.

What drivers are you using? I've got the new version (Catalyst), but when I downloaded them, I had a real big problem with extremely slow downloading (around 10K/s) and the file being about 11MB I think. Also 5 times the download would just stop halfway through. If you're having trouble with it, I can give it to you. I have both the Win2K/XP and Win95/98/ME versions since I'm running a dual OS system. (WinME sucks for me, so I got Win2K Pro to go along with it before WinXP came out. Should've waited)

That fan you're looking at is it the Volcano7 or 7+? The 7+ is a bit better at cooling. It'll gonna be louder than the stock HSF, but shouldn't be too loud. I've never had any first-hand experience with those fans, but from what I've read, it's not loud except for on high setting. At low setting almost everyone says it's whisper quiet. Maybe run it at medium, then you'll be able to hear it, but it really runs quite a bit cooler than on low setting. (about 2-3 degrees cooler)

Looking forward to those benchmarks.

P.S. When overclocking your video card, you should do this. Put the RAM and core up by 5MHz increments and do a 3DMark test 2 or 3 times in a row until you start seeing artifacts like "snow" or deformities. Once you see that, stop it and lower it by 10MHz on the RAM and core then test again.

What's the deal with lampshades, I mean it's a lamp, why would you want a shade? :smile:
June 21, 2002 6:43:48 PM

hi again!!
i have done loads of benchmarks and sadly it seems to be getting slower... not sure why tho..
anyway, the memory setings go up to the following :

engine clock : 332mhz
core : 266mhz

thats as far as it will go, but sadly, i cant get it to run much more than 300 and 252 or something near to those figures..
im getting at the moment, 8300 and a little more at the maximum settings i have manged.. i was kinda of hoping for 8500, like i said.. just to be ironic really...
i do need a fan, at the moment, i have to run the pc with the side off!! never good...
10k a second? god i would die for something that fast!! down in the south west of england, we dont have cable or anything faster than a dial up modem speed, limited to about 4k i am... its really nasty.. i hate it..
the pc is running rather quickly.. but if im unable to get a kt7a for my girl friends son, what motherboard would you recommend me to get with the hardware i have? ive been told that the gigabyte boards are rather nice.. any thoughts?
thank you for helping me through all of these things.. im really looking to get the best out of all of the hardware i have.. unless i have to upgrade the motherboard to something anyway... then thats more fun!!
talk soon
phill

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 21, 2002 7:39:09 PM

I see you made your choices. Congrats! Keep at it. I'm sure you will be able to tweak more performance out of it.

I'm curious. I got a huge visual improvement with the 8500 over my old Geforce2 GTS-V. I was wondering if you noticed the same vs your Geforce2 Ultra.

I missed which HSF you chose. The 40 degree idle/60 degree peak is curious. Don't usually see that much range in temperature. It's not a problem if your system is stable. It's just curious.

If you are still shopping for a HSF give a consideration to the Thermalright AX7. I hear that with even a fairly quiet 80mm fan it gives good performance. I'd have one myself but at 77mm X 77mm it won't fit my motherboard.

Once again, congrats.

<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
June 21, 2002 8:03:05 PM

In one of my posts I made some typing errors which really changed the meaning of some things I meant to say. It's too late. The correction is at the end of this post, for what it's worth.

I original said,

"The Ti4200 may peform better (but as I said, I'm not sure). However, at $155 vs $99, I think the performance is close. I certainly didn't see enough justification to speend the extra W for the Ti4200. I know the Ti4200 has amazing overclocking potential but I don't see it outperforming an overclocked 8500 by that same 57%.

I expect with an extra 256MB of DDR you'lll see much benefit for your gaming experience. I mostly use 256MB SDRAM, also with Windows 98SE. When I add 128MB I don't see any significant improvement."

I meant to say,

"The Ti4200 may peform better (but as I said, I'm not sure). However, at $155 vs the $99, <b>there is a 57% difference.</b> I think the performance is close. I certainly didn't see enough justification to speend the extra <b>money</b> for the Ti4200. I know the Ti4200 has amazing overclocking potential but I don't see it outperforming an overclocked 8500 by that same 57%.

I expect with an extra 256MB of DDR you <b>won't</b> see much benefit for your gaming experience. I mostly use 256MB SDRAM, also with Windows 98SE. When I add 128MB I don't see any significant improvement."

It was terrible of me not to proof this originally. I hope it did not cause too much confusion.

<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
June 21, 2002 8:13:56 PM

i woudnt worry about it!!
i dont..
i have bought a new card now and im happy with the choice.. i am a little confused however as it seems to be going slower than it was a little while ago.. weird eh?
but anyway, i was hoping for a 8500 score (didnt matter what) just to get it around the cards name, but the closest i got was about 8300 nearly 8400..
but now every time i try the card at a overclocked rate, it seems to be getting slower than what i was a couple of tests ago..
any ideas?
really worries me that its getting slower im really quite confused about why this is happening..
but anyway..
are there any tips in getting the best from my card with using the hardware that i have got? i have added a link for list of system specs..
i hope that this is helpfull..
cheers to everyone that has helped me out in this thread..

http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=18250

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 21, 2002 8:14:20 PM

Wow, 4KB/s huh? I just tried downloading PowerStrip again and I got at least 75KB/s. Started off at near 150KB/s then went down. I got it done in about 10 secs. Anyways, enough about my internet connection.

Ok I don't use Powerstrip much, cause I got RivaTuner for my nVidia card. If core is the GPU core, then I'm guessing that the engine clock is the memory. 300MHz DDR RAM is very nice, and 252 for the core is more than the speed of the R8500LE RETAIL.

Do you mean you need to take off the side of the case cause your CPU is too hot? If it is here's some good reviews of the Volcano7+ I found. They are <A HREF="http://www.neoseeker.com/Hardware/Products/volcano7plus..." target="_new">here</A>. After getting that fan you should be able to overclock quite a bit. <A HREF="http://www.neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rid=44224" target="_new">This</A> especially should be helpful. The system they tested is very similar to yours. XP1800+. The results are from max speed, so if you run it at low speed, it'll probably be 5 or so degrees hotter and at medium, probably about 2 degrees warmer. This is one of the best fans you can get, so I don't know why your CPU at idle would be cooler than his with this HSF. If you look at the sensors that he put there, Sensor 1 says 25 degrees, sensor 2 says 37 and sensor 3 says 30. Is your fan loud at the moment?

Since you already put your HSF on, I'm guessing you have some sort of thermal compound. I'd recommend Arctic Silver III cause it seems to work very well.

As for the motherboards, Gigabyte ones are pretty good. Also the Soltek SL-75DRV5 is pretty good too. It can be had for quite cheap here. It doesn't have as many features as some of the other mobos though. I'd suggest a KT333 chipset mobo, so that in the future if you wanted you can upgrade to DDR333/PC2700 if you wanted to. 512MB of Samsung PC2700 and a Gigabyte/Soltek KT333 mobo would cost you around $240USD. Take off $70 if you only want 256MB of RAM.

What's the deal with lampshades, I mean it's a lamp, why would you want a shade? :smile: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Chuck232 on 06/21/02 05:27 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 21, 2002 8:21:57 PM

Quote:
but now every time i try the card at a overclocked rate, it seems to be getting slower than what i was a couple of tests ago..
any ideas?

If possible please post some results for an overclocked score. That way I'll probably be able to tell if maybe it's your CPU that's holding you back. Why it's getting slower I'm not sure, but it could just be a margin of error. How much difference is there?

Ok one more thing, (unless I already asked this, just trying to make it clearer) when you overclock your video card, you get lower scores then at default settings? Is that what you're saying?

What's the deal with lampshades, I mean it's a lamp, why would you want a shade? :smile:
June 21, 2002 8:32:06 PM

not slower than standard, but slower than what i have had prevously..
i managed to get 8350 or something near or a little bit faster than that in 3dmark 2001 se and i was just trying for something silly to get it near or over (just slightly would do) to 8500...
but i cant get it to do this.. i cant even get it near to 8200 let alone 8500.. any ideas?

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 21, 2002 8:35:42 PM

You problem sounds like something I ran into. What utility are you using to overclock the 8500?

The reason I asked is I use PowerStrip. The other day I noticed that after bumping my overclock from 275/300 to 300/315 my score went from 7963 to about 8100. This was not much of a boost but I expected this. (I think I'm running into the limits of my Tbird w/ an SDRAM motherboard). After trying some other speeds I went back to 275/300 and suddenly my score was around 7300. This I did not expect, so I tried 300/315 again, results 7600, WTF!

After nosing around Display Properties, specifically Direct3D, my scores suddenly returned to what I expected.

I wasn't sure what I did to fix it so I experimented. Changed my overclock again and score dropped. Played around in Display properties and the scores return to normal.

I've come to the conclusion the PowerStrip and the Ati Display control panel had different default settings. I've yet to compare them, option by option, but for now when I change my overclock settings with PowerStrip I then go into Display Properties and just reset to defaults for Direct3D and OpenGL.

<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
June 21, 2002 8:41:10 PM

well, from stock i went from these (stock defaults..)

200 memory clock
250 engine clock

and i went to

225 memory clock
275 engine clock

my score went from about 7250, to about 7650, about a 400 point increase, and then i was doing the same again and again and i eveutally got to the name 8350 score.. but this score was when the engine and core was rather 'wounded' up!!
i think i was near to engine clock 300 + and the memory being at least 250mhz...
im not sure whats going on, but i really dont like it!! i feel i have broken my card and thats the last thing that i want!!
help!!

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 21, 2002 8:52:50 PM

I highly recommend you proceed slowly with overclocking. Use small increments.

To fix your problem try opening Display Manager and find the Direct3D tab. In there click on "default". After that disable Vsync. Give 3DMark another try. See if your score returns to what you expect.

I recommend re-enabling Vsysnc for actual gameplay, turning it off is just for benchmarking.

What overclocking utility are you using?

Which ATI drivers are you using? Are you using the new Catalyst drivers?



<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
June 21, 2002 8:59:44 PM

This is weird. According to this, your memory was only at 400MHz DDR. That's very low, taking that OEM cards are supposed to be clocked at 230/230, which means a stock speed of 460MHz DDR. That means your RAM speeds are lower and your core speeds are a bit higher. Try to lower the core to 275MHz and try to take the RAM speeds to as fast as possible. Also please look at your RAM, the 200MHz RAM is making me wonder if maybe your card is fitted with RAM even slower than 4ns.

For point increases in 3D Mark2K1 SE, RAM speeds are a lot more important than core core (engine) speeds. Also it is fairly CPU dependant so you could try overclocking after you get a new HSF. A 1000 point increase from overclocking is nothing to laugh at.

What's the deal with lampshades, I mean it's a lamp, why would you want a shade? :smile:
June 21, 2002 9:02:21 PM

I see that you can now use RivaTuner with R8500 series cards... could be worth a try.

What's the deal with lampshades, I mean it's a lamp, why would you want a shade? :smile:
June 21, 2002 9:18:10 PM

drivers 4.13.01.9039
powerstrip is the overclocking tool im using
i drivers im using are direct from atis web site, this is the url im using ...

http://ati.com/support/products/pc/radeon8500/win98/rad...!

am i using the right drivers?
im going up like you said now, about 5 or 6 every time, nothing major.. just had a score of nearly 7700 with engine @ 265 and memory @ 205 or 206... i was expecting a little more..
at standard the memory settings are engine @ 250 and memory setting is 200... is this normal?

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 21, 2002 9:28:53 PM

i believe that my card is the LE version, so its meant to be about 250 engine/memory speed isnt it?
as for the memory speed on the card, all i could get off of the chip is the following information..

samsung memory, it had 208 on the side with the fan on the gpu and 211 on the other side. it also had a 'code' along it, it read, k4628163HD-TC50....
does any of that make sense???
my ram on my graphics board only goes up to 266..
i love the 1000 points extra, i just wish i could get something to be enough for me, im always looking for something faster, really annoys the hell out of me..
plus, everything on this board is fine and the graphics are blinding.. just want the best from it once, so then i can save it and then show the world !! sad arent i???? dont be afraid to say yes.. im not!!
anyway... i hope that is of some use... where else should or could i look for anything more for you ???? oh and that fan for the cpu you showed me??? going to get that one... its the best one i think.. just hope it fits!!


if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 21, 2002 10:29:07 PM

I'm using the same driver and the same overclocking tool and also Windows 98SE. Now I'm sure you are running into the same problem.

For now, each time you change overclocking just go into Display Properties and change anything in Direct3D, click apply, then change it back. This fixes the slowdown problem.

When I figure out what PowerStrip is altering from the default ATI properties I'll let you know and then we can both fix it. I'm sure it's something minor.

I didn't notice until Chuck232 mentioned but a 200 mhz memory clock is really strange. Is this what you get when you click Performance Defaults in PowerStrip? I would expect 250 GPU/250 memory, 250/230, or 230/230 but not 250/200.



<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
June 22, 2002 9:02:00 AM

yes the performance defaults are as follows...

engine clock : 249.75mhz
memory clock : 200.25mhz

something to me sounds a little on the wrong side..
im going to email ati themselves about it to see what they say about the card that i have...
i think it could be something to do with powerstrip.. although im not totally sure on that one..
im going to run a few more tests today to see whether or not i can see anything that might give it away.. but i dont think that i will.

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 22, 2002 10:53:19 AM

Hmmmm, if you have the opportunity we could settle this by looking at the video card. The DRAMs have some numbers on them. Usually the last line of numbers end with a speed code, -4 for 4 ns, -36 for 3.6 ns, etc. These numbers can be translated to a mhz rating. 4 ns would equate to 250 mhz and 3.6 ns would equate to 278 mhz. 5 ns would be 200 mhz. The easy formula for the conversion is 1000 / DRAM speed rating. Take a look and see what the numbers are on your 8500LE.

Keep in mind that sometimes memory on a device (videocard, memory module, etc) is run below the DRAM's certified speed. For example, 3.6 ns memory, certified for 278 mhz operation, may actually be run at only 250 mhz. This is the device manufacturer's choice.

<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
!