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Radeon 8500le 64MB vs 128 MB?

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June 22, 2002 4:48:37 PM

I am planning on buying the Radeon 8500le at newegg but do u think I should get the 64MB ($99) or the 128MB ($135)? My system is a 1 gig Tbird. Do you think It will make a big difference in frame rates between the 2 at 1024 x 768 16bit In games like GTA3?


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More about : radeon 8500le 64mb 128

June 22, 2002 4:56:03 PM

Why only 16-bit? Anyway,any R8500 can easily handle GTA3, but just make sure you download the latest GTA3 patch for the R8500.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
June 22, 2002 5:28:50 PM

I can’t seem to tell the difference form 16bit to 32bit. Right now the game is almost unplayable with 2 full seconds pauses at times. My Geforce2MX just isn’t up to the task. Just trying to decide if the xtra memory is worth it?

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June 22, 2002 5:46:43 PM

ATI video cards get very little benefit from running at 16-bit color vs 32-bit. I'll let the experts explain.

I haven't seen any benchmarks of a 64MB 8500LE head to head with a 128 MB LE. I have seen Ti4200s 128MB vs 64MB, though. In games like Jedi Knight II and Commanche 4 at 1024x768, the 128MB does better even with the penalty of having slower memory. In older games, no difference.

I went with the 64MB version strictly on price. I decided to take the slight performance penalty because I know the 8500s do well with texture compression and I'm only using 1024x768. If I was going use higher resolutions I would go with the 128MB version.

<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
June 25, 2002 5:57:00 AM

A word of warning...

I was just reviewing the various 8500 incarnations at Newegg, to see if they still have the highly overclockable 64MB LE OEM that I purchased. I was confused and disturbed by what I found.

Newegg still has the model I have, clocked at 250/275 just like mine (according to all the customer comments). The official specs are 250/230 so the current batch with the fast 3.3 ns memory may be limited. The card now costs $98.

At the same time I see another 8500LE OEM with the comment "OEM/White Box". Reading these customer comments it seems this card ships clocked at 230/230. However, the card also seems to be a good overclocker. Both this card and the previous one are manufactured by ATI. This one costs $99.

I also see an 8500LE 128MB OEM labeled, "ATI OEM RADEON 8500 LE 128MB DDR". The customer comments on this one are mixed. Some people say it's clocked at 250/230, others 230/230, and one person said 250/200. Unlike the cards above the product link does not go to the ATI site. The link goes to a site of company named Sapphire. The price for this card is $119.

Be careful. You may not be comparing apples to apples with OEM video cards. There appear to be all kinds of variations for the 8500LE theme. I recommend determining who is the manufacturer of the card, what are the default clocks, and if possible what the speed of the memory is, before purchasing any "OEM" cards.



<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
June 25, 2002 6:41:49 AM

Right you are! This is all tricky wording. The one that customers say comes with 3.3ns RAM probably does come with 3.3ns RAM. The 250/230 and 230/230 are both OEM clocked speeds. The 250/275 seems to be the OEM speed of a downgraded retail product (basically a retail card without the software), while the 275/275 indicates a full retail boxed with games built by ATi card sold at your local CompUSA.

Actually the 230/230 and 250/230 OEM versions do not OC that well. Some users only get them to 250/250 before experiencing artifacts or complete lockups. Some get them to 310/310 if they're extremely lucky and manage to do well on the pencil trick. Read more at the rage3d forums. Generally with the 3.3ns memory version at newegg, the memory can clock quite high, and in fact most of the time clocks higher than the core. So the core is the limitation and the voltage is also. There are two places you can draw on the card using an HB4 pencil to increase voltage, and a bunch of pre-set video card BIOS you can flash using NTSC (American) or PAL (European). The problem with using the pencil trick is that you must be very careful using your multimeter to measure resistance. Basically the core cannot be adjusted via BIOS. So you have to add just the right amount of graphite in the 2 areas on the back of the card. Because of these problems, many Radeon 8500 tweakers have fried their boards because by using the pencil trick they increased the core or memory voltage too high (like 1.87) and it got fried.

In other words, don't try the pencil trick unless you're one of those hardcore OC fans and really are willing to risk all that money. I would just stick with a card that has the same hardware as the retail version (like the $98 newegg one) and use Rage3d's own tweaking tool to OC it using software. Don't mess with the Video BIOS unless you're sure you know what you're doing and always back up your old BIOS. If you want the 64MB version I would recommend Newegg's $98 one of course. If you want the 128MB version make sure you get the retail version and I would get it from mwave.com:

<A HREF="http://192.216.185.10/mwave/skusearch.hmx?UID=PW-576381..." target="_new">ATI RADEON 8500LE 128MB AGP DDR GAMEPACK (Retail)</A> for $140.75

To the original poster: the 128MB one you're looking at is no longer there. The retail one at Newegg is now $162.
June 25, 2002 11:58:28 AM

Looking at the review between the R8500LE 64 and 128, looks like the 128MB version may be well worth the money. Seems to ouperform the 64MB version by about 8-10%, not too bad. I wouldn't get the Sapphire 8500LE 128MB off of newegg.com though. It doesn't seem to perform very well.

What's the deal with lampshades, I mean it's a lamp, why would you want a shade? :smile:
June 25, 2002 3:57:43 PM

That's very useful information! Thanks.

I have an unusual motherboard. I can overvolt the AGP port up to 1.9 volts. Unfortunately, it's a KT133A motherboard and with only a Tbird at 1.5ghz the Radeon 8500 runs out of steam at about 275/300. I see almost no performance gains at 305/315, 300/325, or 275/340, maybe an extra 200 points in 3DMark2001 and about 3 fps in other benchmarks. So there's no need for me to stress the video card.

I forgot to mention, the so called 8500LE 64MB OEM that I ordered from Newegg, the one that is default clocked at 250/275, turned out to be an 8500 (not an LE). I'm assuming it's an OEM but the sticker on the card shows it's definitely an 8500.

The card appears to be different than the retail model. It does not have ATI's Rage Theater chip (see <A HREF="http://www.xbitlabs.com/video/radeon-8500/" target="_new">the Xbit-Labs artcle</A>, about halfway down the page). S-Video on the OEM card is supplied by the 8500's native function. Also, there is a DVI connector but it is not a DVI-I which means you can't connect a second CRT to the port even with an adapter. The port is for a flat-panel display only.

The card has been great for everything except I seem to be having trouble with MOHAA. Framerates are dropping too low at the Omaha Beach Landing. FRAPS says 17-20 fps even at minimum settings. The rest of the game plays at 40-45 fps at maximum settings but even at minimum settings framerates aren't much better. This looks choppy compared to my old Geforce2 GTS and 40 fps is too low! I didn't have FRAPS earlier so I don't know what framerates I was getting for the Geforce2 but it looked smoother in MOHAA.

All my other games and demos, OPENGL and Direct3D, play great with high framerates. I don't understand it.

<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 06/25/02 12:05 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 25, 2002 6:12:56 PM

If GTA3 is all you're going to play, then get the cheeper card. However, the 128MB version should last you longer overall, and is likely to overclock better as well.

English is phun.
June 25, 2002 7:25:22 PM

The difference between the 8500 and the 8500 LE is simply the chip speed, and in some cases, the voltage of the chip. I have an LE (OEM card before they had the LE designation) that I was able to volt mod up to standard specs and push the chip to 300 stably before I stoped.

English is phun.
June 25, 2002 7:36:55 PM

I have a R8500LE and I've been able to push the core and the 3.6ns RAM chips to 280/295MHz stably. I only wonder if I'm gonna burn the card if I go any further?

What's the deal with lampshades, I mean it's a lamp, why would you want a shade? :smile:
June 25, 2002 11:46:40 PM

The 8500LE's also get slower memory not just clocked lower at least the BBAs do.

<b>addition:</b> As I said my card is an OEM 8500 not 8500LE yet my card does not include the ATI Rage Theater chip as does the retail 8500. I'd call that a difference.

Don't forget there is a retail 8500, an OEM 8500 (BBA), a retail 8500LE, and an OEM 8500LE (BBA).

The OEMs get the slower GPU clock. The LE's get slower memory.

<b>addition:</b> To add to the confusion the 64 MB cards get SGRAM (DDR) while the 128 MB cards get BGA memory.

Just within the ATI family there are multiple card options.

Add the ATI partner cards and the options are endless.

<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 06/25/02 07:54 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 26, 2002 5:29:38 AM

Ok I just installed my 8500le 125mb I got form newegg for $119.

It increased my score in 3dmark by over 3400 points (was using a geforce2MX) so I’m happy about that. The bad news is it’s only clocked as 250/200. Don’t know how much of a difference it makes. I did over clock it to 300/250 but it crashed at the end of 3dmark so went to 260/210 for now. GTA3 runs a whole lot better to so over all I’m happy.

Thx & Cya


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June 26, 2002 11:47:14 AM

All of those versions makes it really crazy! Of all of them I'd say the Gigabyte one looks nice. The 64MB version can be had for $135 and comes with a nice TV out chip as well as a 275/275 clock rating.

This little cathode light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine!
June 26, 2002 1:34:54 PM

Hey Phsstpok, looks like we got another one of these cards (sounds a lot like phill21's card??)

Ok to: Lowlypawn, unfortunately, that card kinda sucks. It probably has 5ns RAM. Look at your VGA RAM and tell us what it says. If it's 5ns RAM, you probably won't be able to overclock all that far at all, since 200MHz RAM is its rated speed.

What system do you have and what scores are you getting now?

What's the deal with lampshades, I mean it's a lamp, why would you want a shade? :smile:
June 26, 2002 1:42:57 PM

Why not just get a Made by ATi R8500 Retail. They're guranteed to come with at least 3.6ns RAM and are rated to run at 275/275 and they cost you ~$115. Also for $140 you can get a R8500LE 128MB which comes with either 3.6ns or 3.3ns BGA RAM. I got one with the 3.6ns RAM which was unfortunate for me, but I can still get the RAM to at least 295MHz DDR. (I haven't tried any higher yet.)

What's the deal with lampshades, I mean it's a lamp, why would you want a shade? :smile:
June 26, 2002 2:33:35 PM

It's entirely posable that his computer needs a better PSU for him to overclock it. Usually an overclocked video card causes artifacts and distortion before it simply crashes.

English is phun.
June 26, 2002 2:39:32 PM

Probably not. Check out my post on the pencil trick in the OC section, or search for it on Rage3d. There are a few links to places where you can check your voltage. If you're undervolted, you're unlikely to burn it out even if you OC it (Less heat). The 8500 runs quite cool anyway.

English is phun.
June 26, 2002 3:41:38 PM

Do you know how I can check the voltages? And I have a meter that I use to check the power of the batteries. Is that what I could use?

What's the deal with lampshades, I mean it's a lamp, why would you want a shade? :smile:
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