Hitting a wall...

[Guest]

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Yorath, my single-player 67th level paladin, has hit a wall. He is
unable to get past the Ancients in Nightmare.

The biggest part of the problem is the build. He is my first paladin,
and thorns just seemed to make Normal mode sooo easy (at least
compared to the skellimancer who was my first character). This skill
became completely useless in Nightmare, since he died with almost
every hit- taking one of them with you each time you die is a VERY
slow way to clear an area. So he's got 20 wasted points in thorns;
about 18 in might, which luckily synergizes with charge (10 points).
Other points reside in holy shield and vengeance (used when the foes
are too close to charge), and few other rarely-used skills.

He uses an upgraded Griswold's Edge (because he can't find anything
better), his rogue merc uses a Skystrike (because I love that meteor,
and can't find anything better). He wears a rare embossed plate with
an upgraded Steelclash (with a p diamond added) and an OrtSol helmet.

You may think that I should start a new paladin, but it's taken me
over a year to get him here, so I won't discard him lightly (I have
three kids under the age of three- I don't get to play as much as some
of the folks on this group).

Any tips on how to survive the three (Ancients, not kids)? I used up
a full belt of purple pots, lost the merc, and didn't kill even one of
them.

I've been playing my original skellimancer again lately, and it's
amazing how much easier Nightmare Act I is with the nec than with the
paladin. Can't wait to get to Act II so he can get a thorns merc-
skellies die fast enough they may as well take someone with them.
---The Mad Alchemist---
http://www.mad-alchemy.com
Email sent to the above address, unless clearly marked
as wine or heraldry, will be deleted unread.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Darren George wrote:
> Yorath, my single-player 67th level paladin, has hit a wall. He is
> unable to get past the Ancients in Nightmare.

To fight the ancients you need to have a good tank. I suggest getting a
nightmare defense merc and leveling him to your level. With luck he
will slow the ancients a bit with his holy freeze aura.

Shop for a wand with life tap or maybe decripify. Get a belt of full
purple pots (the big ones, not the small) and throw any leftovers on
the ground about you. You can pick them off the ground in a hurry if
you get in a tight spot.

Curse the ancients when you activate them. Let the merc tank for you.
Kill Madawk first. He's the axe-thrower and the the deadliest of the
bunch. Then go for the rest. Try to fight the same one as your merc so
you knock 'em down faster.

Good luck with these guys. They are really dangerous. Before you kill
'em though, check to make sure they are not fire enchanted. If they are
then cast a tp and try again. Fire enchanted is bugged and will kill
you every time.

-Jason

 

[keith]

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

1 Point in Smite can help greatly if you have Crushing blow and
Open wounds gear.Also a point in Holy shield and a few in defiance
can help buy you time for healing.By the way Thorns is only really
effective if used with Conversion.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <m9p9r0lo31kihdj86i1bu1vrv4hn8uvp87@4ax.com>,
Darren George <madalch@starmail.com> wrote:
>Yorath, my single-player 67th level paladin, has hit a wall. He is
>unable to get past the Ancients in Nightmare.
>
>The biggest part of the problem is the build. He is my first paladin,
>and thorns just seemed to make Normal mode sooo easy (at least
>compared to the skellimancer who was my first character). This skill
>became completely useless in Nightmare, since he died with almost
>every hit- taking one of them with you each time you die is a VERY
>slow way to clear an area. So he's got 20 wasted points in thorns;
>about 18 in might, which luckily synergizes with charge (10 points).
>Other points reside in holy shield and vengeance (used when the foes
>are too close to charge), and few other rarely-used skills.
>
>He uses an upgraded Griswold's Edge (because he can't find anything
>better), his rogue merc uses a Skystrike (because I love that meteor,
>and can't find anything better). He wears a rare embossed plate with
>an upgraded Steelclash (with a p diamond added) and an OrtSol helmet.
>
>You may think that I should start a new paladin, but it's taken me
>over a year to get him here, so I won't discard him lightly (I have
>three kids under the age of three- I don't get to play as much as some
>of the folks on this group).
>
>Any tips on how to survive the three (Ancients, not kids)? I used up
>a full belt of purple pots, lost the merc, and didn't kill even one of
>them.

The Ancients are tough, and I don't really know how you could tackle them.
They are probably harder in 1.10 than they were in 1.09, and 1.09 was the
last time I took a _melee_ character past the Ancient.

However, I don't remember much problems with NM Ancients, though Hell
Ancients were _REALLY_ tough.

As you yourself already indicated, it's a rather messed up build, so you
simply should not expect to get very far with it, though finishing NM
should be possible. See the other hints indeed: life-tap might help (if
you can hit the Ancients), swap the merc for an Act 2 one, the HF one is a
good option, to slow down the ancients a bit.

Beyond that, I don't know. I had relatively little problems with NM
Ancients, in 1.09, using a rather standard Zeal/Vengeance Paladin. I think
I took them down using the 'standard' tactic with this build for bosses:
Conviction + Vengeance, both were probably close to maxed.

>I've been playing my original skellimancer again lately, and it's
>amazing how much easier Nightmare Act I is with the nec than with the
>paladin. Can't wait to get to Act II so he can get a thorns merc-
>skellies die fast enough they may as well take someone with them.

Oh dear... If 1.10 skellies are dying this quicky, something has gone
wrong here too. Because 1.10 skellies are very durable, _if_ you think to
max both Skeleton Warriors and Skeleton Mastery. Did you?

Since they're that durable, the NM Might Merc is a better option than the
Thorns one...

Regards,

Patrick.

 

[Guest]

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"Darren George" <madalch@starmail.com> wrote in message
news:m9p9r0lo31kihdj86i1bu1vrv4hn8uvp87@4ax.com...
> Yorath, my single-player 67th level paladin, has hit a wall.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snip>>>>>>>>>>>>
I ran into the same problem with 3 different 'zon builds. Breezed through
normal and nightmare and then found I could not even scratch the smallest
monster in Hell difficulty because I had neglected, through inexperience in
playing the game, to build up some skills to deal with all the lightening
immunes. I didn't add sufficient skill points into some other field besides
lightening and, since I played completely untwinked, the drops just couldn't
keep up with the increases in difficulty level. The best advice is to at
least read the guides when you are starting a new character. I am sure that
those guides are the results of MANY deleted characters and MUCH frustration
on the part of the authors, which they have kindly chosen to share with the
rest of us. You can find a guide for just about any variation or hybrid you
can think of. No one says you have to follow it, but it may be that you
find something there that you hadn't thought of.
On a seperate note, it is also very helpful to have access to some decent
equipment. I built a necro character (after consulting several guides. I
didn't build him exactly like the guides but I did learn a lot from them).
He is an untwinked level 75, hybrid summoner/artymancer on US East Ladder.
I play strictly SP and he is moving VERY NICELY through hell (just finished
Radamant the Fallen quest last night and it took all of 3 minutes to send
Hell level Radamant back where he came from.). As he goes along he finds
LOTS of good gear for my 'zons.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Darren, I feel your pain.

You've got some good advice already, but it is worth giving starting over a
second consideration.

Your character sounds a lot like my first paladin, and I made as many
mistakes with attribute points as I did with skills. I hit the mid-60s and
just couldn't kill anything I needed for quests or leveling.

I didn't relish the idea of starting over, but I did a little research, read
up on the different paladin builds, and learned from my mistakes. My next
paladin is level 84 and just did the Ancients in Hell is less playing time
than it took to take the first character to the 60s.

I'm not saying you have to do a cookie-cutter build, but it's like
conventions in bridge. Those things become 'conventional wisdom' for
reason. There's nothing wrong with re-inventing the wheel, if that's what
you enjoy. But there's nothing wrong with learning from the mistakes made
by others.

Certainly consider the improvements you can make to your current pali. But
if that doesn't work out, you can at least take comfort that with a little
research your next character should move along a lot faster.


IMHO,



Sean G.



"Darren George" <madalch@starmail.com> wrote in message
news:m9p9r0lo31kihdj86i1bu1vrv4hn8uvp87@4ax.com...
> Yorath, my single-player 67th level paladin, has hit a wall. He is
> unable to get past the Ancients in Nightmare.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:30:14 +0000 (UTC), Patrick Vervoorn
<patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:

>Oh dear... If 1.10 skellies are dying this quicky, something has gone
>wrong here too. Because 1.10 skellies are very durable, _if_ you think to
>max both Skeleton Warriors and Skeleton Mastery. Did you?

I'm planning to, but I haven't yet- I think I have about 7 points in
each of skellies, mastery and mages. A lot of points have gone into
golems, and a few other skills (CE, AmpDam, and Decrep, and whatever
the prereqs for those are). The skellies are still a heck of a lot
more durable than the paladin was in the start of NM.

>Since they're that durable, the NM Might Merc is a better option than the
>Thorns one...

I've considered that, too, but I've got a few levels before I have to
decide that.

---The Mad Alchemist---
http://www.mad-alchemy.com
Email sent to the above address, unless clearly marked
as wine or heraldry, will be deleted unread.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <re2cr0tc360371o6aouu7o3ktl7qcnnkfe@4ax.com>,
Darren George <madalch@starmail.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:30:14 +0000 (UTC), Patrick Vervoorn
><patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:
>
>>Oh dear... If 1.10 skellies are dying this quicky, something has gone
>>wrong here too. Because 1.10 skellies are very durable, _if_ you think to
>>max both Skeleton Warriors and Skeleton Mastery. Did you?
>
>I'm planning to, but I haven't yet- I think I have about 7 points in
>each of skellies, mastery and mages. A lot of points have gone into
>golems, and a few other skills (CE, AmpDam, and Decrep, and whatever
>the prereqs for those are). The skellies are still a heck of a lot
>more durable than the paladin was in the start of NM.

Err, golems? And 7 in each? What level is your Necro now? And what do you
want with a golem? If you'd maxed Skeleton Warriors first, then maxed
Skeleton Mastery, you would have walked through NM like a lightsabre
through melted butter.

Or something like that.

If this is your first Skelliemancer, the simple guide is:

1st max Skeleton Warriors
2nd max Skeleton Mastery
3rd put some points in CE, 1 point in AD, 1 in Decrepify, once you can
get those skills
4th max CE

Beyond that, you need some decent equipment to also go through hell
rather easily, but even without 'ueber' gear that should be doable also.

>>Since they're that durable, the NM Might Merc is a better option than the
>>Thorns one...
>
>I've considered that, too, but I've got a few levels before I have to
>decide that.

Thorns sounds nice in theory, but it is a 'passive' solution. I prefer
the active solution: the skellies hit monsters, and doubling that damage
sounds much nicer to me than passively waiting until some monster hits
the skellies. Besides which, the damage monsters actually deal is not
that high, especially when you compare their damage dealt with the amount
of life they have, especially in Hell.

Anyway, on the other hand, who am I to discourage experimentation, so
feel free to use a Thorns merc, and report on his effectiveness here.

Regards,

Patrick.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <n6gcr0locl1a5glanahiap5c9dponfr3bg@4ax.com>,
Darren George <madalch@starmail.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 23:16:41 +0000 (UTC), Patrick Vervoorn
><patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:
>
>>Err, golems?
>
>Yes- when I started the character, I found that the skellies died a
>lot faster than a clay golem, and an iron golem was better than the
>dirt. (This was 1.09.)

I never played a Skelliemancer in 1.09, but that indeed changes about
everything, and I can understand why you made your build as it is now.

>Now he's got a fire golem, who is very useful in collecting the
>corpses needed to start the troop of skeletons. I'm sure I put "too
>many" points into clay and iron golem, but at least there's some
>synergies with fire golem, so they weren't completely wasted.

Whatever you do, stop puttting points in any golem. All of them
(possible excluding the Iron Golem) are strong enough with just 1 point in
the main golem skill and 1 point in golem mastery. The Iron Golem is a bit
weak, but since it has the same problem as skellies with 'disappearing' if
it gets stuck around a corner, it's rather fragile as is.

>> What level is your Necro now?
>
>42-ish. Lots of time left to max skells.

The build is salvageable, of course, but if you have to progress through
the end of NM with non-maxed skellies it could get a tiny bit more
difficult. Just put all point in the skellies from now, and you'll do just
fine.

>>Thorns sounds nice in theory, but it is a 'passive' solution. I prefer
>>the active solution: the skellies hit monsters, and doubling that damage
>>sounds much nicer to me than passively waiting until some monster hits
>>the skellies.
>
>Basically, having thorns is like casting monsters with Iron Maiden
>(which seems to work very well for Oblivion Knights); having might is
>like using Amp Dam.
>
>I haven't actually done the math, so don't hold me to that analogy
>quantitatively.

The reason Iron Maiden works so good for Oblivion Knights is because of
the ratio between life and damage of the players; the average melee type
deals about 500-1000 dmg per hit, but has about 750-3000+ (Barb with
maxed BO) life.

However, a Hell monsters have about 3000-8000 life, but deal about 250
dmg; you do the math. Thorns isn't going to put a dent in them.

Regards,

Patrick.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 09:38:08 +0000 (UTC), Patrick Vervoorn
<patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:

>The build is salvageable, of course, but if you have to progress through
>the end of NM with non-maxed skellies it could get a tiny bit more
>difficult. Just put all point in the skellies from now, and you'll do just
>fine.

Hmmph. The build is more than "salvagable"- he's 60th level now, and
waltzed through the chaos sanctuary with about as much trouble as he
had with the den of evil (both nightmare).

Skellies are now maxed, and mastery is next (possibly with a few more
points to revive or mages). I just wish I could find a head that was
better than "+1 to summoning".

It still amazes me how much easier nightmare is for this character
than normal- he gained eight levels with his original, multiple
attempts to kill Diablo, and didn't break a sweat in NM. I guess the
expansion is a major factor, since I can use a merc in Act 4 now (as
well as being able to take minions from one act to another).

The paladin hasn't played since the Ancients handed him his head on a
platter- maybe when I get bored with the nec.

---The Mad Alchemist---
http://www.mad-alchemy.com
Email sent to the above address, unless clearly marked
as wine or heraldry, will be deleted unread.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <480pt0div89t8g6te8tjtcd1to9svirdo2@4ax.com>,
Darren George <madalch@starmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 09:38:08 +0000 (UTC), Patrick Vervoorn
><patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:
>
>>The build is salvageable, of course, but if you have to progress through
>>the end of NM with non-maxed skellies it could get a tiny bit more
>>difficult. Just put all point in the skellies from now, and you'll do just
>>fine.
>
>Hmmph. The build is more than "salvagable"- he's 60th level now, and
>waltzed through the chaos sanctuary with about as much trouble as he
>had with the den of evil (both nightmare).

This is a rather old post you're replying to... But I'll follow-up
nonetheless. Anyhow, whether a character 'waltzes' through any part of NM
or not is no indication at all of a build that's good or non-good. Hell
difficulty is where the proof of the pudding is.

You seem to have 'salvaged' this Summoning Necro build, well done. Like I
said, you should have tried end of NM/Hell with non-maxed skellies. That
would have been.... Interesting.

>Skellies are now maxed, and mastery is next (possibly with a few more
>points to revive or mages). I just wish I could find a head that was
>better than "+1 to summoning".

I'll repeat: you don't need to put any more points than 1 in either
revives and/or mages. There are much more useful skills to put points in
before this point, and you can always put in some more points in these
skills if you feel like it.

>It still amazes me how much easier nightmare is for this character
>than normal- he gained eight levels with his original, multiple
>attempts to kill Diablo, and didn't break a sweat in NM. I guess the
>expansion is a major factor, since I can use a merc in Act 4 now (as
>well as being able to take minions from one act to another).

NM is much easier than Normal for a lot of characters, because NM is the
difficulty at about which some of the more powerful lvl 24/30 skills
become available, and have been getting a lot of skill points. Which
results in a lot of builds that are rather 'overpowered' for NM
difficulty. And again, Hell is where a build will be tested.

>The paladin hasn't played since the Ancients handed him his head on a
>platter- maybe when I get bored with the nec.

NM Ancients?

Patrick.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

I have a lvl 91 summoner and I love him. he is in full trangs, wears
marrowwalks. He has maxed skels and skel mastery, maxed clay, 10 in mastery,
maxed revives (helps for great escape), no mages but whats needed for tree.
added bone wall (for desperate defense moments), bone armor (every little
bit helps in case), and finally added spirit, not too powerful at the
current lvl but oh helps alot. His act 1 norm archeress is lvl 90, they
romp pretty well in hell.


albeit, hell can be slow going at times.
"Patrick Vervoorn" <patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote in
message news:crirf5$2d$1@news.tudelft.nl...
> In article <480pt0div89t8g6te8tjtcd1to9svirdo2@4ax.com>,
> Darren George <madalch@starmail.com> wrote:
> >On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 09:38:08 +0000 (UTC), Patrick Vervoorn
> ><patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:
> >
> >>The build is salvageable, of course, but if you have to progress through
> >>the end of NM with non-maxed skellies it could get a tiny bit more
> >>difficult. Just put all point in the skellies from now, and you'll do
just
> >>fine.
> >
> >Hmmph. The build is more than "salvagable"- he's 60th level now, and
> >waltzed through the chaos sanctuary with about as much trouble as he
> >had with the den of evil (both nightmare).
>
> This is a rather old post you're replying to... But I'll follow-up
> nonetheless. Anyhow, whether a character 'waltzes' through any part of NM
> or not is no indication at all of a build that's good or non-good. Hell
> difficulty is where the proof of the pudding is.
>
> You seem to have 'salvaged' this Summoning Necro build, well done. Like I
> said, you should have tried end of NM/Hell with non-maxed skellies. That
> would have been.... Interesting.
>
> >Skellies are now maxed, and mastery is next (possibly with a few more
> >points to revive or mages). I just wish I could find a head that was
> >better than "+1 to summoning".
>
> I'll repeat: you don't need to put any more points than 1 in either
> revives and/or mages. There are much more useful skills to put points in
> before this point, and you can always put in some more points in these
> skills if you feel like it.
>
> >It still amazes me how much easier nightmare is for this character
> >than normal- he gained eight levels with his original, multiple
> >attempts to kill Diablo, and didn't break a sweat in NM. I guess the
> >expansion is a major factor, since I can use a merc in Act 4 now (as
> >well as being able to take minions from one act to another).
>
> NM is much easier than Normal for a lot of characters, because NM is the
> difficulty at about which some of the more powerful lvl 24/30 skills
> become available, and have been getting a lot of skill points. Which
> results in a lot of builds that are rather 'overpowered' for NM
> difficulty. And again, Hell is where a build will be tested.
>
> >The paladin hasn't played since the Ancients handed him his head on a
> >platter- maybe when I get bored with the nec.
>
> NM Ancients?
>
> Patrick.