GF4 MX question on its DX8 performance

[eden]

Ok, so it does not have full Direct X8 support, neither has any shaders, yet, in a game where DX8 is embraced and kissed in the bummer so much, as Aquanaox, the MX460 actually outperforms my Ti200! I mean now I am starting to wonder on these cards' worthiness, if I see them performing still high in almost any DX8 game!
Somebody explain to me just when DX8 optimized games will make a huge delta in performance when taking MX GF4s and GF3s Ti200s and above!

--
Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G!

 

[chuck232]

If you're asking why the MX460 outperforms your card in DX8 games, it cause since they don't have the hardware, they just don't apply the pixel shaders or whatever it is that's needed. Then since your GF3 Ti200 needs to apply the textures, it'll slow it down, yet the MX460 is speeding ahead. So basically it's like running your Ti200 on 4X AA, but the MX460 is running normal. The picture would look better with a DX8 compliant video card, just as the 4X AA would make the game look better.

Falling down stairs saves time

 

[AMD_Man]

Actually, I think the GF4 MX just emulates the shaders in software and thus rely a lot more on CPU performance.

<b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b>

 

[chuck232]

Oh, ok.... But the CPU has a better time with this than a dedicated gfx card?

Falling down stairs saves time

 

[eden]

So you're saying that weaker CPUs will put my card much higher in performance?

I still didn't get exactly Chuck's meaning of it though.

Also, I thought when you don't have the DX8 technology, the graphics would also look worse. I used to think that a new graphics technology is actually limited to the cards that support it, so those nice Nature test effects, or the Aquanox sea beauty would only work on the GF3s and above. Or like Morrowind's water effect. So in reality any card can do the same graphical effect just slower?

--
Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G!

 

[chuck232]

I guess I was wrong. I thought that if the hardware didn't support it, it'd just skip those effects. Well, according to AMD_Man, the CPU actually has to take up the slack, so with a better CPU and a non-DX8 compliant card, you'll get pretty good gaming performance.

Falling down stairs saves time

 

[eden]

And that irritates me even more!
I mean with today's P4 2.6GHZ, anyone can just pay cheap for them MX cards and still get the same performance and sometimes better, and that downright pisses me off!
I expected that DX8 compliance makes a huge difference, due to the optimizations, but now I see GF2 Ultras still kicking my card's butt in UT2003! (Although I know why, I think you understand what I mean)

Also I was thinking again like before, that DX8-cards in DX8 games can do effects that are amazing that non-DX8 cards can't. I mean in the end a Voodoo 3 could do the Morrowind water effects, making it look like we'll never have video cards capable of creating effects that just would not work/render on older ones.


--
Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G!

 

[Myrmecophagavir]

If a card doesn't support a feature of DX, it is emulated in software. However this doesn't apply to pixel shaders - they are just too computationally expensive to do in software, even on the fastest CPU out at the moment.

Vertex shaders can be done in software on high-end modern CPUs, so the fact that they aren't done in hardware on a 4 MX is less of a problem. However I think Morrowind's water effects are done using pixel shaders, so no you couldn't do them on a Voodoo 3, or even an MX 460.

As for the MX 460 outperforming the Ti 200, where did you see that? Tom's benchmark has them the other way around. However according to Nvidia's website, the MX460 has a memory bandwidth of 8.8 GB/s whereas the Ti 200 has only 6.4 GB/s, since it's a lot older. So that might explain something.

 

[4Ryan6]

The most serious problems I personally ran across with the GF4MX cards was not the fact that on some games they were able to seemingly perform and on others would not, it was when the graphics levels of some games got so intense that the graphics card would reach the end of its performance threshold and freeze or lockup the system right in the middle of seriously intense playing, to me that was the most frustrating and justifying reason to get away from the MX series and go to the TI series GF4, which solved the problems. I guess the biggest question is not what you're getting away with now, its with the future of game developement graphics requirements can the cards survive?

You never know what you can do until you try.