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Thoughts on the R300/R250

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July 18, 2002 10:12:11 AM

this is from the article on the R300 " The 3DMark2001SE score of GeForce4ti4600 was 11,400, while Radeon 9700 with its young driver scored 14,000. Once 4x FSAA and 8x anisotropic filtering was used, the scores changed quite significantly. GeForce4Ti4600 was able to get a mere 4500 points, while Radeon 9700 scored 10,000 points and thus more than twice the points of the competitor from NVIDIA.
"
Well....what can i say!!!!!!!!!

More about : thoughts r300 r250

July 18, 2002 10:14:16 AM

Crazy good scores.

AMD for Life!
July 18, 2002 10:29:44 AM

Very interesting. I'm waiting for the 9700 to replace my hugely impressive (!) TNT2 Ultra.

Where did you see this article?

Sex is great but it's no substitute for the real thing.....
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July 18, 2002 10:43:24 AM

hopefully, the driver will be FULLY implemented for the 9700
July 18, 2002 11:03:06 AM

......wow that's really impressive....can't wait for the card to hit the shelves, my dollars are ready.


Sex is great but it's no substitute for the real thing.....
July 18, 2002 12:04:45 PM

damn, now i'm delaying the purchase of my new computer for this card, does it worth it?
July 18, 2002 1:11:48 PM

YES!!! I'm gonna delay my building too. This is just too good to pass up I think.

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
July 18, 2002 1:36:31 PM

A wise strategy. I have an old Duron 1GHz and a TNT2 Ultra. I'll upgrade the monitor and graphics card when the 9700 comes out, then I'm waiting for the AMD Hammer before I get a new motherboard/CPU/RAM. By January I should have a really kick-ass system.....

Sex is great but it's no substitute for the real thing.....
July 18, 2002 1:54:44 PM

My real question was this card able to do overlay in the second monitor.. I just hope that this card is able to do just that and also the NV30 can do overlay in the second monitor also, because that is really what matrox has over these guys heads and it would be nice if matrox came down in price..
July 18, 2002 2:34:22 PM

How much time do u think it'll take NVIDIA to get back to the top?
July 18, 2002 3:41:24 PM

im very impressed with the R300's 4x AA performance...it rivals the performance of the gf4 ti4600 without AA...
however...the performance of the R300 chip isnt surprising though....because of all the hype and all...

:eek:  <b>L <font color=red>A</font color=red> e <font color=red>T</font color=red> a <font color=red>I</font color=red> K</b> :eek: 
July 18, 2002 3:45:53 PM

....well I think most people were pleasantly surprised by its apparent performance. I'm waiting to see what the final retail spec is, and how it performs in a more comprehensive test.

:lol:  I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.... :lol: 
July 18, 2002 3:56:18 PM

just to add to my first post...a quote taken from <A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MzMw" target="_new">[H]ardOPC:</A>

<i>"Last, but certainly not least, a benchmark we don’t use as it is made by NVIDIA, tweaked by NVIDIA, and configured for NVIDIA hardware, the Chameleon demo. At 1600x1200, the Radeon 9700 doubled the Ti4600 scores."</i>

a hint of irony...no?

:eek:  <b>L <font color=red>A</font color=red> e <font color=red>T</font color=red> a <font color=red>I</font color=red> K</b> :eek: 

EDIT: i need to learn how to spell quote...<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by pr497 on 07/18/02 12:08 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 18, 2002 3:58:19 PM

.....ooohhhhhh makes me hot......makes me wanna cum.....

:lol:  I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.... :lol: 
July 18, 2002 4:15:54 PM

i did not need to hear (or read) that...

:eek:  <b>L <font color=red>A</font color=red> e <font color=red>T</font color=red> a <font color=red>I</font color=red> K</b> :eek: 
July 18, 2002 4:18:36 PM

10000 with FSAA x 4 and 8X Aniso... :::D rool:::

Price will be just as much an issue with this card as anything else. If ATI can get it priced at or under the TI4600, then they'll have a sure winner.

The 9000 looked nice too for the value market. Should be under $100 retail after a month or two, especialy if the 8500 goes for about $100 in OEM versions at some sites. DX8.1 should give it a longer life. I wish they had done some image quality testing with DVDs though to compair it to the 8500.

English is phun.
July 18, 2002 4:19:13 PM

hehe ya i can't wait for the All in Wonder Radeon 9700. For my multimedia powerhouse. They will even have drivers for Maya!

For the super power users i wonder if ATI will have the Radeon 9700 MAXX! Dude that would be sweet!

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
July 18, 2002 4:28:10 PM

great looking hardware I have the 8500 3.3 ns and love it ( have a gf3 and a gf2 also in other machines and like them also) now .. where can I get a new agp 8x compliant mobo to replace my POS soyo dragon ultra p4s ( can't even use a gf4 on it with out sending it back to soyo to be "fixed" :frown: .. damn wonder how long until games catch up with this technology

<font color=red><b> cinnamon rolls arent really revenge </font color=red></b>
July 18, 2002 4:49:15 PM

Hmmm wait a month before buying new technology. You're actually suppose to wait 6 months before buying new technology.

I'm in desperate need of a graphics card though. Mine is broke :( . It overheats and crashes every game i play lol ...
but yet in 3dmark2001SE (330) it runs fine and i even get scores of 3876 heh ...

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
July 18, 2002 4:58:59 PM

It looks incredible, I couldn't believe that w/ the AA it still can keep up w/ a straight 4600. Very impressive.
July 18, 2002 5:00:50 PM

im just going to buy one..
i know my xp1800 system will hold it back, but then i will just have to wait and see what happens when the prescott and the hammer hit the streets..
i feel the need for speed!!!
i cant wait to get one..

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
July 18, 2002 5:32:12 PM

Quote:
im just going to buy one..
i know my xp1800 system will hold it back, but then i will just have to wait and see what happens when the prescott and the hammer hit the streets..
i feel the need for speed!!!
i cant wait to get one..

Hey man!! Cool, I'm probably gonna get one for my P4 1.8A (overclocked of course :smile: ). Hopefully, I'll actually be able to use the card a bit, most likely, it'll always be CPU limited. I'd wait for Hammer/Prescott, but I really can't wait til next year. Anyways, I'll build a new system at the end of next year to run Doom]|[ hehe :lol:  . It's a great day!!

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
July 18, 2002 5:36:32 PM

Right there with you man. I don't know about you guys, but even with the hints from the Doom 3 demo (article describes there reasons for presenting with ATI over NVIDIA) I STILL didn't buy the hype about ATI's "comeback kid".

Not sure exactly which games qualify in the "CPU holding you back" category, but finally a card has arrived worthy to replace my OC'd AIW 7500. Does anyone have any idea what the asking price will be? I'm guessing 350$ (just my own thoughts) but haven't heard a word. UNBELIEVABLE!!!



<font color=purple>Pentiums are for wusses who are afraid of instability</font color=purple>
July 18, 2002 6:20:11 PM

If you're talking about the price for the R300, it's $399USD. The AIW version probably being $499.... not cheap.

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
July 18, 2002 6:22:46 PM

i know that the price will be high, but then saying that over in england (where i live) it will take a little while to get over here etc.. which is a bit of a shame, because

I WANT IT NOW !!!

my friend has a g4 ti4200.. im wondering what it might compare like..
but there you go, these are the things that god put us here for.. wondering how good pc graphics cards will be...
the cpu thing seemed to be with most of the games that they tested which is a shame, because most of them i play !!
im guessing it will be about £300 over here.. something that will last a while.. until i get my new hammer/prescott system anyway..

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
July 18, 2002 6:30:32 PM

Hehehe.. there we go again, comparing our computers to our friend's. Well, I'll tell you this now, you'll smoke everything his comp has to offer, hands down. Bet that makes you feel all good inside... Well, R9700 won't be out til middle of August over here, so expect it probably September.

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
July 18, 2002 6:31:13 PM

where would i find any info on doom 3? i have heard its going to need some serious power for it to play 'well'...
im not so worried about it being cpu limited.. when i change i might just expect a little change for the better!!
oh, with the accident with the kg7 xp etc.. ive got new, i bought 3 pc setups and got three new monitors too.. wasnt bad for 1000 quid.. plus i got a new hard drive, ibm deskstar.. 80 7200..
mega quick!! from a maxtor 133 7200 drive its about another 4000 or more marks on that sandra test thing.. well impressed, nearly as fast as having raid with two 7200 drives!!
well, keep on posting!




if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
July 18, 2002 6:39:50 PM

well he was saying that his g4 ti4200 was faster than my radeon 8500le... and you know how 'bad' that was...
so i think that i will have to show him a thing or two..
his system wont work on 133 fsb for some reason, but hes overclocked it somehow too 146..
heres the link..

http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=3935394

http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=3942928

you'll see what i mean..
i cant wait for the card, i hope to have it near to my b'day, but im not sure.. shame really, but then i will be able to save up for it and wont need to worry about paying for it!!
i really cant wait..
using a g3 ti200 at the mo,... slows down a little, but not that much.. great card, but the quality isnt there compared to the ati,.. but then i did pay less than £100 for the card.. 64mb version, sparkle one... everything else was like another £50 plus!!

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
July 18, 2002 7:13:23 PM

Yeah, too bad my birthday is way too far away. If you got a R300, you'd kill his scores. Even right now, I'd beat his scores.

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
July 18, 2002 7:36:46 PM

I must say it is a very powerful machine. It is a monster heh!

The good thing in this card is that its clock is tied at GPU and lower in mem, yet it carries a HUGE per-clock increase!
On average it gets 30% increase above the Ti4600, and under AA and Aniso, which now it dominates AA as well, it gets as much as 225% the Ti4600's performance. Now that is serious.
But what is even more amazing is the DRIVERS which are still not final. Damn you just wish they had Detonator XPs to use!

I am not too amazed by the 3d Mark score to be honest, yes the AA plus Aniso is amazing, though the extra 3000 points for 4 vertex shaders, 8 pixel pipelines, 20GB of bandwidth, a huge fill rate, 8X AGP, 128MB and so much more? Maybe I am just being pessimistic, or maybe I am not even considering that the extra 3000 points stems from the same clock speed... Hmm now that I didn't of!
Imagine though, 0.13m R300s, running at 400MHZ GPU and Mem DDR, goddamn that would be strong! I think the clock is what's holding back what is already a monster!

The Anand tests sometimes raise my head big-time while others decrease the hype, such as only getting 16% boost, and even getting beaten in JK II and Q3, where traditionally, Radeons rocked at OGL. Had they not shown such tests and used something very DX8 bound, like Morrowind, Aquanox, I am sure we'd see strengh.

And as for its price tag, lol, for the same price of Parhelia, I think Matrox is gonna be VERY stuck, and they'll either lower the price, or have to use the optimizations I mentioned in a topic previously, about the Parhelia OCing.

What is weird to think is that NV30 is even more than this card, so that is scary. However I think it is nice to have the cards compared at same clock, this is often what I want so I'd know how far the new card is in technology per-clock.

ATI did however make something worthy to look at, definitly no Radeon 8500 at launch, and definitly no copycat in technology. With image quality possible in any game now, increased colors, I think this thing shows how much ATi can do, and I truly congratulate them. One can't help but wonder how in the world can this be the card that Carmack said will run Doom 3 perfectly, ONE YEAR BEFORE it will be out! I wonder if he'll comment the NV30.

--
:smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 07/18/02 03:59 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 18, 2002 9:01:07 PM

im kinda wondering what i would get with my current setup to be honest..
i would love to get something even faster, but im sure it will cost rather alot...
im definitly going to wait till the hammer prescott etc.. i think its going to be a great time to buy something mega fast.. i think it will be worth the wait.. shame the graphics card might have to be upgraded as well..
lol
i dont think!!
im going to keep that one till it dies!!
anyway, will talk when i get/find out when its due out over here..
cheers for now

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
July 18, 2002 9:01:50 PM

So, it will probably be available on the net for $80 to 100 less. The 8500 came in about at those prices less than a month after release.

English is phun.
July 18, 2002 9:55:37 PM

Ahh... the skeptic in our ranks. That's good, I think we need some balance. I would really advise that you guys take a more cautious approach and don't get too excited. Remember this card will be $350 (retail $400) and it will be damn expensive. Think about getting the 9500 instead or at the very least waiting for prices to come down. Remember the Geforce 2 Ultra was $400 when it came out and people were just as excited about it back then. If 3 months of joy from having the fastest gaming card is worth it to you then it's a good short-term emotional investment. If you want the card to seem like a better investment than that then maybe it will be wiser to buy it once the price comes down.

I am actually lots more confident in ATi drivers now. Perhaps I shouldn't be but they (ATi) seem very serious right now.

nv30 will be nice, but who said we had to wait another few months? ATi will lead the graphics industry for probably a good 3 months. At the very least that's 25% of the entire year, and during that period of time we cannot deny that ATi will be the current leader in graphics. It won't matter if the nv30 will be faster, because it isn't out yet. It's like the space race. You launched Sputnik? Wow we hear it on our radios. You're saying you have a satellite too? Well where is it?

Doom3: release is November 2002. It was pushed back recently.

This little cathode light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine!
July 18, 2002 10:14:17 PM

There are stickers at compusa showing the r9700 priced at $350 but alas no actual card.
July 18, 2002 10:21:38 PM

Don't forget ATI is releasing the r350 (some rumours r400) around the same time as the nv30 and it is supposed to be about 50% faster than the r300. So nvidia has to play catchup BIG TIME.
July 18, 2002 10:28:50 PM

Is having a AGP 8X capable board going to matter that much with the 9700 or should 4X be fine?

How many boards support AGP 8X?
July 19, 2002 12:01:09 AM

i knew it!
[ego stroke]yet again i have been proven right![/ego stroke]
LOL

a number of months ago i predicted that the next gen of graphics cards will be dualchannel. and the are. niiiiice.

and competition is allways good for US. i hope geforce 3 and 4 prices come down considerably when the 9000 and 9700 come out.

drivers still worry me... one would think they would sort them out.
i had a rage pro ages ago and got stung with bad drivers... i want guaranteed good drivers before i consider going for ATI again.

one other thing that particulay impressed me was the way they did intelligent antialiasing. very nice with pixel multisampling and colouring.
Ego: Check
Rose hued glasses: Check
Fanboy Button: Check
CPU forum, here i come! :smile:
July 19, 2002 1:02:20 AM

Quote:

i had a rage pro ages ago and got stung with bad drivers... i want guaranteed good drivers before i consider going for ATI again.

I'll vouch for ATI's superior drivers.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
July 19, 2002 2:59:51 AM

Well...I guess folks at ATI are finally sharing a BIG smile....a deserved one...
It seems that benchmarking this card would be better done at 1600*1200 4X FSAA and with 8X Anisotropic Filtering...and thats not my logic...its what the guys at [H]ardOCP thought...Naturally...if u get a card for 399$ thats what you'd expect from it...and from what i read over there...with those settings, the 9700 outperformed the Ti4600 by....check this out....." 300% "....phew....How fast could that possibly be????
And that's only with Preliminary drivers....MOHAA didnt run properly.....and was fixed within 24 hours....proving that those drivers need some work...
Some thoughts:
- The card has Carmack's backing...the man with the plan...that ought to mean something for ATI...and definetely for NVIDIA....and ran DOOM3 at E3...
- ATI's roadmap is full of releases towards the end of the year...with .13micron and 256MB memory...and even the R400
- ATI has been working hard lately to fix the issue that has plagued its cards for so long...THE DRIVERS...and we've all seen a change in that lately
- Even with the NV30 release...ATI will have matured its drivers even more...and refined its R300 to a higher end card....
- And last but not least...a very important issue that's seldom discussed is PRICING...ATI's flagship will be released at 399US$...and that's a double digit rise over the Ti4600...not much IMO....If the Ti4600 sell at around 300$-360$...I wonder at what price will they sell when the R300 is released...Which brings me to think...AT what price will the NV30 sell...if their preious cards were so damn expensive....

....Any thoughts....??????

Guess..i can finally afford a Ti4600.....lol......
July 19, 2002 4:14:03 AM

DOOM III IN NOVEMBER 2002???!!!
Holy crap, where did you read THAT!
Now this is a piece of news to me, a BIG ONE.
Wonder why Carmack or anyone for that matter didn't send news.

--
:smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile:
July 19, 2002 7:18:26 AM

It's in his plan. Read it at planetquake or wherever the heck he writes those diaries.

This little cathode light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine!
July 19, 2002 8:16:22 AM

yea their drivers should be better this time around. during janurary, they hired a new team which duties were specific to drivers(i live in toronto, they were hiring), the catylst team is what they are. so i wouldnt doubt their drivers either.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by linsook on 07/19/02 04:17 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 19, 2002 8:43:04 AM

..er...ahem...sorry...got a bit carried away with the 9700's specs.....you see I have a TNT2 Ultra, so the new ATi card is a real turn-on.....

Hey maybe I need to get laid more often.....

:lol:  I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.... :lol: 
July 19, 2002 8:53:25 AM

Bugger... now this is a card that is actually something to write home about. I want to see full benches when the retail card comes out. I want this card. I don't want to be the father of this card's children like *some* people ;) , but I want this card. Now if only it supported 3 displays like matrox... could you imagine rigging a projection system with three projectors onto three walls set at 45 degrees to each other? No screen edges, big, seamless gamplay, with a nice 5.1 dolby digital sound setup... yeah, it might only cost 40,000 clams to set up, but what a rush!

In the words of Whelan Smithers: I want it, I want it, I want it!

-

I plugged my ram into my motherboard, but unplugged it when I smelled cooked mutton.
July 19, 2002 3:01:37 PM

ATI has always been more mobile with their price, as can be shown by how their 8500 dropped in price to a good price point after the GF4 came out. So, they might match, or even beat the current GF4 in price when it's released, and will move to a great level when the NV30 moves in.

My only worry is witht the new DVD playback. Hopefully someone will actualy review the quality on that.

English is phun.
July 19, 2002 8:03:03 PM

Can we get more details about the R300-based All-in-Wonder that will supposedly do full hardware MPEG-2 codec? I think it will have a new Rage Theater chip.

Full hardware MPEG-4 codec would be so sweet :) 
July 19, 2002 8:19:14 PM

There's not yet any info on the AIW version as of yet, but I'm sure it'll have some significant technological advancements.

I really hope the R9700 will drop to ~$300 or below before this Christmas. I'm gonna really want to upgrade the Ti4200 in my future system.... Hopefully NV30 will be good to so the R300 prices will drop further :smile: . Always thinking of my pocketbook...

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
July 19, 2002 11:16:03 PM

FWIW Bront I'm running a Radeon 64 ddr(7200 WTF is going on here......:) well anyway, the DVD preformance is the dog!
A big one


18r
StanO
!