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ATI RADEON cannot play Dolby DVDs!

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July 22, 2002 3:32:40 PM

Hey everyone... ATI tech support just made it official! There is a known problem with Dolby playback losing sync with the video. On my PC, everything starts correctly, but after an hour, the audio is almost 2 seconds behind the video! ATI's response: "We are aware of this problem, so in the meantime, just use regular stereo." How's that for tech support? Why have a dolby 5.1 system to playback regular stereo? To me, that's like buying a car that cannot turn left. If I brought that car to ATI for service, they would probably say: Yeah, we know about that, so instead of making a left turn, just make 3 rights. Apparently, this problem affects ALL ATI DVD players, the 7500 and 8500. System is 1.4ghz cpu, 512mb mem, running WinXP and/or Win98se...I tried both! If you are considering a software DVD player, I strongly suggest avoiding ATI!
July 22, 2002 3:46:38 PM

You need to relax man... i'm sure the problem will be fixed. You can't expect a product to not have ANY problems as newer technology comes out....
What did you want ATI to tell you? What else can they say other than use regular stereo til they fix it?
July 22, 2002 4:06:33 PM

I was told to avoid ATI, because of their horrible driver support, but I thought the 7500 was a cool product. What a mistake that was! I originally had a AMD K-6 running at 500mhz. I was using a Creative Labs DxR3 decoder board and I was able to play DVDs without any problems whatsoever. Then, I wanted to use video capture and was considering Creative's "Digital VCR" card, but thought...Why not just get an All-In-Wonder?
Well, the 7500 was not able to capture ANYthing because of "lack of horsepower," even though a 500mhz cpu was within their advertised specs. So, I built this 1.4ghz PC. Now, I believe I have enough power, but I still cannot get this ATI resource pig to run smoothly. If you think "just run the player w/o Dolby," is a viable solution, you obviously do not have a Dolby system. Why not suggest: Keep the Dolby, but shut off the TV, so audio-video sync will not be a problem? Since this affects every product they make, they should have tested this piece of junk before releasing it. As for "they will fix it..." Would you like to make a bet? All they care about now is releasing the 9000 stuff...Something I would not touch if it was given to me free of charge!
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July 22, 2002 4:16:43 PM

Um, ok. Which DVD player are you using? I've never had a similar problem and I've never heard of anyone complaining about this problem. Obviously it's very rare, if it even exists. I can't believe that the first sign of a problem you start hating ATI! I mean, nVidia has had similar problems before too. ATI has the best support in the world, IMO. Who else has to your door service for free?

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
July 22, 2002 4:36:49 PM

Which DVD player? The ATI 7.6 and 7.7

You said: "I've never had a similar problem and I've never heard of anyone complaining about this problem. Obviously it's very rare, if it even exists."

Hmmmm I thought I said ATI confirmed this? ATI said this problem affects ALL ATI products and since I do not own ALL ATI products, I feel it's safe to say someone else MAY have this problem too.

"ATI has the best support in the world, IMO. Who else has to your door service for free?"

I have spent more on long distance phone calls for this "free support" than I originally spent for this card!
Does Nvidia have decent support? I would not know, nor would I care, since my other PC with a TI4600 is running just fine!
July 22, 2002 5:42:58 PM

Quote:

Which DVD player? The ATI 7.6 and 7.7

You said: "I've never had a similar problem and I've never heard of anyone complaining about this problem. Obviously it's very rare, if it even exists."

Hmmmm I thought I said ATI confirmed this? ATI said this problem affects ALL ATI products and since I do not own ALL ATI products, I feel it's safe to say someone else MAY have this problem too.

Hmm, the ATI DVD Player never fully supported Dolby Digital 5.1. Get PowerDVD or WinDVD (the full editions not the light ones that come with hardware). They run perfectly with Dolby Digital sound.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
July 22, 2002 7:44:40 PM

AMD_MAN seems to be right. Here's an excerpt from the AIW 8500 feature page : "Actual Dolby® 5.1 AC-3 decoding is done by the external AC-3 decoder which is not included."
Can you expect a car to turn left when it was designed from the beginning to turn right?


<font color=red>Floppy disk?!? What the heck's a floppy disk?!?</font color=red>
July 22, 2002 8:12:51 PM

Yes, the actual decoding is done by an external receiver. However, if the audio is sent later than the video, the external decoder will decode it later! If I want my car to turn right, I would prefer it to turn right when I turn the wheel, not 2 seconds later! I do not recall Sony Dolby receivers having the 2 second delay feature installed.
July 22, 2002 9:57:40 PM

Quote:

Yes, the actual decoding is done by an external receiver. However, if the audio is sent later than the video, the external decoder will decode it later! If I want my car to turn right, I would prefer it to turn right when I turn the wheel, not 2 seconds later! I do not recall Sony Dolby receivers having the 2 second delay feature installed.

You realize the sound has nothing to do with the graphics card but rather the sound card. What sound card are you running?

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
July 22, 2002 10:22:56 PM

Hey, if they just found the problem, give them time to fix it. Obviously, it it was a long standing problem, it would have been more publicized by now.

Also, is this simply a problem with ATI's DVD software? Or is it a problem with any DVD software using an ATI card?

Don't start a <font color=red>flame war</font color=red> while immersed in <font color=orange>gasoline</font color=orange>.
July 22, 2002 10:39:39 PM

I've never been a big fan of the ATI multimedia suite personaly. Had strange issues when playing back different video formats because settings would mysteriously be reset. That's been my only "Complaint" about ATI that I've had. Everything else has been fantastic.

Often times, the "Free" software that comes with products is free with a reason. There are plenty of very good DVD decoding softwares out there that will work perfecty in your setup.

Don't start a <font color=red>flame war</font color=red> while immersed in <font color=orange>gasoline</font color=orange>.
July 22, 2002 11:24:46 PM

You may be right about them "just finding the problem." From the responses I have been receiving, it appears nobody has ever listened to a DVD using Dolby 5.1 except me?

I feel the Dolby sound is just as important as the DVD-quality video. I have not tried other DVD-player software packages because ATI told me they will interfere with their software. I suppose I can take AMD Man's suggestion and get a full version of WinDVD. But since I have the fancy ATI RF remote to play the TV, CD, VCD...Now I will have to get something else to play WinDVD remotely...

ATI's solution was perfect for my application...if only it worked! But from I have been hearing about their driver support, I know this issue will never be resolved. I made the mistake of buying this piece of junk, so I will most likely sh**can it and buy something that works out of the box, like Creative, or Visiontek, or Pinnacle.

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions!
July 22, 2002 11:35:51 PM

You realize the sound has nothing to do with the graphics card but rather the sound card. What sound card are you running?

The sound card has nothing to do with the Dolby output! The digital Dolby output comes directly from the Radeon card and goes directly into my Sony receiver. In this application, the sound card is used for TV, TV capture, CD, and VCD. I even tried removing the Audigy card, to see if that was interfering with the DVD playback and it still had the delayed audio.
July 22, 2002 11:55:54 PM

If this is a problem with the graphics card then I'm sure it will be fixed within a week or two. ATI has the best driver support on the planet at the moment (or so they promise). I'll look into it. I'll see if I can inquire at ATI.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
July 23, 2002 12:03:31 AM

Ohh, you're running it through a Dolby Digital Decoder and not the sound card? That explains a lot! Since the data is simply passed through the S/PDIF port, I'd say that it's probably some kind of software conflict. My system would once play sound event a whole half second late. After reformatting, the problem was fixed.

First, make sure your system is set up exactly as shown <A HREF="http://www.ati.com/support/connectors/aiwradeon7500/con..." target="_new">here</A>. Secondly, I recommend reformatting. Odds are you didn't completely uninstall your old nVidia driver or whatever so a reformat should fix the problem.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2002 2:21:15 AM

MY guess is that it's a problem with ATI's player, not the hardware or drivers. I would try PowerDVD or WinDVD and see if the problem goes away, several people are distributing "free trial" copies of this software.

<font color=blue>At least half of all problems are caused by an insufficient power supply!</font color=blue>
July 23, 2002 2:51:51 AM

Quote:

MY guess is that it's a problem with ATI's player, not the hardware or drivers. I would try PowerDVD or WinDVD and see if the problem goes away, several people are distributing "free trial" copies of this software.

I find it difficult to believe that ATI would let such a fundamental bug slip through, especially considering ATI has released 3 major versions of MMC (including the DVD player) since The AIW R7500.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
July 23, 2002 4:39:40 AM

Reformatting? Hmmmm..I never tried that option, and funny you mentioned...I used to have a nvidia GeForce2 card in this PC. Maybe I still have some nvidia stuff lurking in the registry? I will try anything at this point, including formatting.

But another thing bugs me about this card. As your instructions indicate, I have to select either S/PDIF or 2 channel stereo. When I used the Creative card (DxR2 and DxR3 decoders), the Sony decoder "knew" which input to use. Regular TV sounded fine and when Dolby was present, the AC-3 decoder automatically kicked in without any intervention from me.

Now, with the Radeon, I have to manually select between regular sound and Dolby sound. So when the DVD starts, the audio is missing until the actual (Dolby-encoded) movie starts.

So should I wait for ATI to fix this? Should I get a full-version WinDVD or PowerDVD? Should I re-install my Creative Labs hardware DVD decoder and see how it behaves with the Radeon? Should I blow away the hard drive and reformat? Now if I could write a script that really starts the Creative player when the ATI DVD player is selected...

I asked ATI about combining the Radeon with a DxR3, but they were not familiar with that combo. I'm going to take a break for a few days to lower my BP, so thanks for all of your assistance. I'll send a post after I try some of your suggestions.
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2002 5:49:12 AM

MMC has always dealt me a bad hand!

<font color=blue>At least half of all problems are caused by an insufficient power supply!</font color=blue>
July 23, 2002 12:15:46 PM

Quote:

But another thing bugs me about this card. As your instructions indicate, I have to select either S/PDIF or 2 channel stereo. When I used the Creative card (DxR2 and DxR3 decoders), the Sony decoder "knew" which input to use. Regular TV sounded fine and when Dolby was present, the AC-3 decoder automatically kicked in without any intervention from me.

That's because you were using a separate MPEG2 decoder. With the AIW R7500, you're basically choosing between relaying the sound to the sound card, or sending it through S/PDIF.

Quote:

Now, with the Radeon, I have to manually select between regular sound and Dolby sound. So when the DVD starts, the audio is missing until the actual (Dolby-encoded) movie starts

No, not really. When you relay information through S/PDIF, all the 5.1 channels of sound go through, you don't have to actually select it.


Quote:

So should I wait for ATI to fix this? Should I get a full-version WinDVD or PowerDVD? Should I re-install my Creative Labs hardware DVD decoder and see how it behaves with the Radeon? Should I blow away the hard drive and reformat? Now if I could write a script that really starts the Creative player when the ATI DVD player is selected...

I asked ATI about combining the Radeon with a DxR3, but they were not familiar with that combo. I'm going to take a break for a few days to lower my BP, so thanks for all of your assistance. I'll send a post after I try some of your suggestions.

The ATI card what your hardware decoder does and more. Stick with only the ATI card.
Try reformatting and reinstalling Windows. That usually fixes most problem comparable to yours.


:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
July 23, 2002 2:40:57 PM

Quote:
You may be right about them "just finding the problem." From the responses I have been receiving, it appears nobody has ever listened to a DVD using Dolby 5.1 except me?

It could be, or it could be some other conflict. If you're the only one that seems to be having this problem, it's more likely that there is another problem.

Try doing some research at rage3d and other ATI forums. If you can't find anyone else with the issue, then there is probably be another problem.

Don't start a <font color=red>flame war</font color=red> while immersed in <font color=orange>gasoline</font color=orange>.
July 24, 2002 3:52:52 AM

Well Guys, this will do it for me! I formatted the drive, loaded a fresh copy of WinXP and then loaded the most recent ATI installation CD (I have 4 of them now...which is another tribute to their "best driver support in the world." Original CD had read errors, so I purchased one from their on-line store. The first order was lost, the replacement CD arrived... cracked, the replacement for that CD did not load display drivers, because ATI 'accidently' sent a CD for a RagePro card, and now the recently-arrived CD is the one I'm using). Not bad...Paid 20 bucks for FedEx and had to wait 2 weeks for the correct, uncracked CD. "Why didn't I load drivers from the web? If you really want to know, I'll write another book telling you why!

So with the new OS, new ATI drivers...I still have the same problem! What a shock, eh? Then, I tried to install a Creative DXr3 decoder also, but with so many different available options...I could not find a combination of inputs/outputs to work. Here are some examples:

For sound: My sound card has several stereo inputs and outputs, S/PDIF, fiber, and coax. The Radeon has a "CD out," an "AC-3 out," along with a phono plug to plug into a sound card input. The DXr3 has several audio in/out and AC-3 dolby out. Well, that covers the mechanical connections. Now, we have device manager properties. Should the Radeon use Ravisent or ATI Rage theatre? Should I use stereo, Dolby or Pro-logic? Should the "line out" on the sound card be regular stereo or S/PDIF? Should "line- in" be connected to "CD" or "line" or "aux" or "mic?"

Now for the video! I looped the Radeon DVoutput (DV to vga conv) to the DXr3 input, then tried using the S-video output to the TV. But should I config the Radeon to use S-Video, VGA only, or both? My plan was to use the VGA output to listen/watch everything the RADEON has except for the DVD and use the Creative player and DXr3 to watch/listen Dolby DVDs. However, I could never get the right combination. And since nobody has ever tried this, I always wondered if I was wasting more time on a config that would never work.

Now for the video device mgr properties... Do you really want to know?

I thought I tried all combinations, but after several hours, I gave up! I wasted a month of my life with this Radeon and I will never, EVER, touch anything that ATI pukes out to the market. If the new Radeon advertises trillions of triangles/sec and costs $19.95, I will still buy Nvidia.

If anyone cares to know what works, what does not and what it takes to make them work, let me know.

Have fun guys! And as for ATI giving Nvidia "a kick in the pants," all I can say is BULLS*IT. Those dopes should have given up after the CGA video standard was released!
July 24, 2002 10:37:10 AM

Whoa, mate, take a chill-pill. Okay, your setup doesn't work. Did you try the other DVD software out there? I know it's a bugger that you won't have the use of a remote control anymore, but does that really matter? And ATI have been doing a stellar job with driver updates as of late, especially with the new, separate team designated for just that. Hardly good cause to say that ATI is a load of *peep* and condemn them for life. Odds are, they will have a fix out there soon, be it a driver update, or at worst, a recall. It could even be your hardware setup. Did you do a search for similar complaints? See what others have to say, if there are others with the same problem.


-

I plugged my ram into my motherboard, but unplugged it when I smelled cooked mutton.
July 24, 2002 12:12:35 PM

Here's an interesting question...are you sure you don't have an EAX effect enabled?

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
July 24, 2002 12:51:19 PM

Quote:

Then, I tried to install a Creative DXr3 decoder also, but with so many different available options...I could not find a combination of inputs/outputs to work. Here are some examples:

There's your first problem: Don't install the Creative card! The ATI Rage Threatre chip does everything itself. You're merely complicating matters for yourself.

This is what you need to set in the ATI DVD Player:

<A HREF="http://members.rogers.com/amd_man" target="_new">Link</A>


Also, try testing with another DVD. The DVD you are using may be corrupt. What sound card are you using? Actually, it would help if I knew your entire system specs? It may simply be that you're running something in the background that's hogging resources and your computer can't handle also playing the DVDs.





:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
July 24, 2002 1:37:11 PM

"Take a chill pill? Does it really matter that something does not work? Did I try the other players out there?"

Did you happen to read the previous 15 posts, or did you just read the last message and had nothing better to do than reply to that one? Hey....Do you work on ATI's tech support team? From your suggestions, it sure sounds like it.

Sure, I can try WinDVD. I can also "try" another PC, or "try" another video card. I can also "try" another DVD player and forget using PCs all together...

But if I waste a couple of hundred bucks, plus another hundred on phone calls to make this piece of crap do AS THEY (ATI) ADVERTISE, I get upset. Maybe you don't mind being lied to and crapped on, but is sure irritates me.

Incidently, I called ATI again this morning to ask why the Mpeg-2 capture does not work (.avi, mpeg, atiplayer formats work properly, but mpeg2 saves files as "atiplayer" files). Would you like to hear ATI's "great technical support's" answer?

My card is now over 30 days old (by 3 days). They told me I am no longer eligible for their courtesy support and gave me a 900 number to call for $1.25 per minute! I suppose waiting 2 weeks for a driver CD is just tough luck for me.

What a deal! I can buy an ATI and get screwed OR I can wait 30 days and call ATI and get screwed!

Maybe you think ATI support is "great" for the less challenging problems (the PC screen is dark and this black cord with 2 flat prongs is laying on the floor and I'm wondering if it needs to go somewhere...), but if you have a real problem....FORGET IT! "Use WinDVD"
July 24, 2002 2:00:48 PM

"There's your first problem: Don't install the Creative card! The ATI Rage Threatre chip does everything itself. You're merely complicating matters for yourself."

That Rage Theatre chip is SUPPOSED to do everything...
But the more I test, the more problems I find. However, the Creative card plays DVDs perfectly on my old K6-2@ 500 mhz. In fact, Creative's specs indicate a Pentium 133 will do the job! Now if I'm using an Athlon 1400, what possible resource issue could be at fault? (No, I'm not running any nuclear physics calculations in the background). This piece of crap ATI card could be plugged into Cray Research's latest supercomputer and I'll bet the damn thing will still screw up the audio.

Since you asked: Athlon 1400, Gigabyte GA-7ZXR mainboard, 512mb mem, SB Audigy, Linksys NIC. Now I also have a XP2100 with DDR333 memory, using a TI4600. But I am not going to waste another weekend swapping video cards in an attempt to get this ATI crap to work.

I tried several DVDs and ALL of them lose sync. So my only choice is to play a movie with regular stereo (yawn) as everybody on this board seems to do, or use the Dolby, watch their lips, and reboot when the lips no longer match the audio? Maybe I should just watch the old Godzilla & the old Bruce Lee movies, so the sync won't make any difference?

As i previously said, I'M DONE! The card does not work and it never will work! ATI is concentrating on the 9000 line, trying to suck in more helpless consumers into their graphics "black hole," never to see the light of day again!

So if any of you Nvidia haters go and buy ATI, make sure you have all of your issues addressed AND RESOLVED within 30 days! Hey, I just saw a pig fly by...
July 24, 2002 3:04:26 PM

Quote:
For sound: My sound card has several stereo inputs and outputs, S/PDIF, fiber, and coax. The Radeon has a "CD out," an "AC-3 out," along with a phono plug to plug into a sound card input. The DXr3 has several audio in/out and AC-3 dolby out. Well, that covers the mechanical connections. Now, we have device manager properties. Should the Radeon use Ravisent or ATI Rage theatre? Should I use stereo, Dolby or Pro-logic? Should the "line out" on the sound card be regular stereo or S/PDIF? Should "line- in" be connected to "CD" or "line" or "aux" or "mic?"

Now, I had a Radeon AIW, and if I remember, it had a line input that ran from the Sound Card to the Video card (Or Vice Versa). The Radeon doesn't deal with the sound, the sound card does.

You want Rage Theatre.

Line out should be S/PDIF if you're using an AC3 decoder.

Quote:
Now for the video! I looped the Radeon DVoutput (DV to vga conv) to the DXr3 input, then tried using the S-video output to the TV. But should I config the Radeon to use S-Video, VGA only, or both? My plan was to use the VGA output to listen/watch everything the RADEON has except for the DVD and use the Creative player and DXr3 to watch/listen Dolby DVDs. However, I could never get the right combination. And since nobody has ever tried this, I always wondered if I was wasting more time on a config that would never work.

Looping the VGA outputs won't help the S-video output, as the decoder imposes it's image over the VGA output in the loop. So, if you use the s-video output, you're bypassing your DVD decoder. All you'd have is a possable conflict between that decoder, and the ATI card. So it's best if you keep it out of the system. Probably best if the drivers for it are gone too. THey could interfere with ATI's decoding.

Quote:
My card is now over 30 days old (by 3 days). They told me I am no longer eligible for their courtesy support and gave me a 900 number to call for $1.25 per minute! I suppose waiting 2 weeks for a driver CD is just tough luck for me.

That's unique. ATI gave me support on my OEM card even when they didn't have to.

Also, could you elaborate on why you can't download the drivers from ATI? Other than the Catalyst drivers the day they were released (well, 2 hours after anyway), I've never had a problem from my dialup downloading any of them.

All I can say is it sounds like you've got more issues with your system than simply the ATI card, and no one else here has ever had the same problem you've had, or at least they aren't talking.

Forum Gigolo wanabe
July 24, 2002 3:31:52 PM

All I can say is it sounds like you've got more issues with your system than simply the ATI card, and no one else here has ever had the same problem you've had, or at least they aren't talking.

I suppose ATI admitted this problem on both the 7500 and 8500, and have noted this in their knowledgebase, just to keep me from bitchin'

The reason "nobody knows about this" is because apparently NOBODY on these boards ever heard of home theatre! "Just use WinDVD, just use stereo, just watch Godzilla movies..."
Who needs Dolby anyway....What's a few more speakers going to do, just make it louder, right? Maybe i should just turn up the volume?
July 24, 2002 3:51:12 PM

so, could you elaborate on why you can't download the drivers from ATI? Other than the Catalyst drivers the day they were released (well, 2 hours after anyway), I've never had a problem from my dialup downloading any of them.

I'm glad you mentioned driverS and not just driver...

On their website, you need to download the 7.6 driverS before you upgrade to the 7.7 driverS. Now which drivers do you load first? Catalyst? Capture? RemoteWonder? MMC? Oops...You can't load the DVD player w/o the original CD to get the serial number.... Oops... You can't get GuidePlus from ATI...only from the CD! Which do you update first? Do you have to reboot after every install and/or after every update (as windows requests)? I'm sure you get my point.

Maybe I'm getting lazy in my old age...i like to plop in a CD, and let the install...install. THEN, if i want to try the latest version, I go to the web and update.
July 24, 2002 5:29:11 PM

I just received this email from those wonderful, caring, tech support guys at ATI:
*********************************************************
Audio out of sync with video when using S/PDIF out with ATI DVD Player

This issue affects all ATI All In Wonder products capable of S/PDIF digital output.

In some instances when playing DVDs, with the S/PDIF output enabled, audio will be out of sync with video. If the S/PDIF output is disabled, the DVD will play correctly and audio and video will remain in sync.

This symptom can occur when there is insufficient free bandwidth available on the system. Reducing system load to increase available bandwidth will usually correct this symptom.

To increase available bandwidth:

- Close all other running applications prior to attempting to use the ATI DVD Player.
- Ensure that DMA is enabled for your DVD-ROM drive.
- Lower the refresh rate/resolution/ and color depth being used for the display.

These changes should be made in steps as not all of these settings may need to be reduced to create sufficient free bandwidth.

e.g. If your display is currently set to 1280x1024 32 bpp at 85Hz, first try selecting a 60Hz refresh rate. If the problem persists, then try also lowering the color depth to 16 bpp. If the problem still persists try lowering the display resolution to 800x600.

If you continue to experience difficulties please complete an ATI Problem Report.

Please include the following information:

- the make/model of DVD-ROM drive in use
- the name of the DVD title(s) affected

If you have any questions about the information above, contact ATI Technical Support and reference INFO-BASE file # 3818

Should you require any further information or assistance, do not hesitate to contact us again.

Please quote your ATI Customer Number, 1199168CSC, in any future correspondence.

Regards,

Philip Walke
Customer Service Canada
ATI Technologies, Inc.

http://www.ati.com for Product & Technical Information,
Driver Downloads and FAQ's

********************************************************

What a pile of Mule Fritters! I'm using a TV output only, so my resolution is down to 800X600 and NOTHING else is running on this 1.4ghz pc, because I ran a complete format, reinstall last night. A resource issue? My A**.
July 24, 2002 5:29:45 PM

Well, I'm going to investigate this further. I've been looking at getting a 7500 AIW for my fiance so she can turn her home movies into Video CDs or DVDs. If this is an issue, I may look at simply getting a video input card.

I've been very happy with my 8500 (Especialy since I revolted it to standard specs) and while I have yet to play DVDs on it (I don't have one on my comp), It'd be nice to know if this will be an issue. Of course, I'd probably not use the ATI software anyway, as I have several other softwares already that should do the same thing. I'm always curious to see what they say though.

I'll update everything when they get back to me.

Forum Gigolo wanabe
July 24, 2002 5:34:28 PM

Quote:
- Ensure that DMA is enabled for your DVD-ROM drive.

Here could be your issue. Check your IDE drivers to see if they are using DMA mode for each drive. It's default for some CDs and DVDs is POI Mode 4 (The last POI mode before UDMA modes were available). That might solve your issue.

Also, check for a new firmware for your DVD drive. That could also be the issue, especialy if it's an older DVD drive.

Forum Gigolo wanabe
July 24, 2002 6:29:01 PM

Yep...The DMA is enabled and I'm using the latest VIA mboard drivers. In fact, the ATI test/compatibility program tests for proper performance, resources, DMA, sound card timing...everything that should relate to this problem. I find it strange that ATI tech support forgets to mention that. However, you did bring up a good point about the DVD firmware. I never thought about that one, but I did try 3 different drives. My original Creative 5X, a Pioneer 10X, and my current Acer 16X. But since all of these drives work with my other PCs (the 5X is running on an AMD K6 500mhz and using the DxR3 decoder card and plays Dolby just fine. The 10X is running on an XP2100, using a freebie WinDVD program (the one that came with my Gainward TI4600), I never considered this to be a DVD drive issue.

So why am I making such a big deal out of this if I have 3 DVD players? I bought the Radeon strictly to view DVDs on a big screen TV and to listen to them with a Dolby home theatre system. The other All-in-Wonder goodies...TV capture, digital VCR, GuidePlus, RemoteWonder... all work and work quite well.

If a go on a trip and want to watch DVDs on a laptop, I use (and accept) non-Dolby headphones. But at home, I prefer to use everything that was paid for! If I want to watch a big screen with crappy, single-channel sound, I'll go to a drive-in movie.

I still can't comprehend why everybody thinks "no Dolby, no big deal." For those of you that don't know the concept of Dolby, it's not just 6 speakers doing the same thing, only louder. EVERY speaker is independent. If there is a scene where someone is speaking behind your back on the right side, you will hear the person behind you...on the right side, not simply hear them from the front. If someone fires a shot across the room, you will hear the shot go from one speaker to another... If you paid for a year-long pass at your local movie theatre and then found out there is no audio on the right side (but they know about the problem and you heard they submitted a problem report)... Would you simply say, "what's the big deal, I'll just get there early and sit towards the left?"
July 24, 2002 7:34:55 PM

Quote:


I still can't comprehend why everybody thinks "no Dolby, no big deal." For those of you that don't know the concept of Dolby, it's not just 6 speakers doing the same thing, only louder. EVERY speaker is independent. If there is a scene where someone is speaking behind your back on the right side, you will hear the person behind you...on the right side, not simply hear them from the front. If someone fires a shot across the room, you will hear the shot go from one speaker to another... If you paid for a year-long pass at your local movie theatre and then found out there is no audio on the right side (but they know about the problem and you heard they submitted a problem report)... Would you simply say, "what's the big deal, I'll just get there early and sit towards the left?"

That's not true. I listen to Dolby surround sound DVDs on my computer perfectly, but I just route it through my Santa Cruz which handles the decoding itself. Why not just get a good sound card and let it handle the decoding?

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
July 24, 2002 7:55:24 PM

jpscfl, can you please relax for a second and list your system specs? You keep bashing ATI and you're not giving me a chance to help you. I'm fairly certain I can help you to at least workaround the problem. You can relay the sound to your sound card and then let the sound card pass the signal back to the decoder again, or just connect it directly to the speakers. Remember, all modern sound cards can decode 5.1 sound, whether it's the SoundBlster Audigy, Santa Cruz, GameTheater XP, SoundBlaster Live!, etc.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
July 24, 2002 9:05:10 PM

OK...But I thought I covered everything already. Athlon 1.4ghz, 512mb ram, Enermax 400w p/s, Radeon 7500AIW, Linksys NIC, Gigabyte GA-7ZXR with on-board sound (Creative PCI128) and/or SB Audigy...I put the Audigy back in the other PC, so I'm back on the internal sound card, since they work identically. What else....WD 20gb 7200rpm ata 100, Airboard wireless kybd...Running Corp version of WinXP, also tried Win2k SP2, Win98se...All with latest MS updates. I have removable drives, so I can switch OSs without any effort. This PC is networked to my XP2100, AMD 500, AMD 550, and 2 AMD750s. The XP2100 & the AMD 500 both have DVDs. ALL PCs are on a major UPS.

Now...If the Dolby output comes directly out of the Radeon card and currently goes into my amp, what possible difference could a different sound card make? If the sound from the Radeon comes out delayed, ANYTHING plugged into it will be delayed, whether it's an amplifier, another sound card, 2 cans connected with a string...

I tried to use Creative's Decoder last night, but could not get both the video and sound. The easiest solution is to run WinDVD, since I was not aware of the full version able to decode dolby (thanks for that info)!

But how much do you want to bet, any additional software running a similar application will interfere with the dozen Radeon drivers?

I think it's time to say adios to ATI. I'm no longer in the mood to experiment and waste more time with this piece of sh**. Instead of beating this dead horse, I would rather s**tcan this card and buy something that works without wasting another month of swapping, calling, configuring, guessing, etc.
July 24, 2002 9:30:55 PM

Quote:


Now...If the Dolby output comes directly out of the Radeon card and currently goes into my amp, what possible difference could a different sound card make? If the sound from the Radeon comes out delayed, ANYTHING plugged into it will be delayed, whether it's an amplifier, another sound card, 2 cans connected with a string...

The sound isn't delayed from the graphics card because I've got several ATI cards and they work perfectly. This may simply be a bug in the current driver. ATI is releasing a new MMC (DVD player, etc) and new core drivers in one or two weeks.

Quote:

But how much do you want to bet, any additional software running a similar application will interfere with the dozen Radeon drivers?

I'll bet all of Bill Gates' fortune on it! :wink:

Quote:

I think it's time to say adios to ATI. I'm no longer in the mood to experiment and waste more time with this piece of sh**. Instead of beating this dead horse, I would rather s**tcan this card and buy something that works without wasting another month of swapping, calling, configuring, guessing, etc.

I fail to understand why you're so bothered by ATI after one minor fixable bug. Also, the PCI128 is by no means comparable ot the Audigy. They are in two completely differnent leagues. Besides, look at what ATI has accomplished in the last year alone. They've developed a new support program (bug fixes in as little as 24 hours), they've released the fastest performing, most advanced graphics card months ahead of ATI, they've always been well ahead of nVidia in the multimedia sector. In any case, I don't know if I can really help you through Tom's Hardware, but just relax and wait for the new MMC and drivers which will come out very soon. MMC 7.8 and the ATI Catalyst 6102 will be out soon.



:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
July 24, 2002 9:38:50 PM

Quote:
with on-board sound (Creative PCI128) and/or SB Audigy...I put the Audigy back in the other PC, so I'm back on the internal sound card, since they work identically.

They certainly aren't identical, won't the Audigy do Dolby Digital decoding? In which case why don't you use that instead of the ATI card to decode the sound, which is exactly what you want? Sorry if I've misunderstood something.
July 24, 2002 10:34:05 PM

I fail to understand why you're so bothered by ATI after one minor fixable bug.

Please read previous posts regarding importance of Dolby.
As for fixable... The only fix I see is going to another vendor. ATI will only focus on the 9700, then after they piss off a few more dummies who buy their boards, they will announce and only support the 10,700 then the 11,700.
You can spend the rest of the day telling me how wonderful ATI is, but every aspect I have experienced...tech support, calling the CEO, ordering CDs, per-fee support...every single event was one huge FOO-BAR (f.u.b.a.r).

As for "ati being ahead of Nvidia..." Don't you ever read the benchmarks in places like....Tomshardware.com? Nvidia always kicked ATI's ass. Also ATI is well-known for shi**y driver support (and I tend to agree with that). But I did not buy this card for blazing frame rates. I bought this card to WATCH Dolby DVDs and look what happened.

So, I will sit and wait for the new drivers that will come out any day now...Hey! I just saw another pig fly by....
July 24, 2002 10:49:46 PM

Quote:

As for fixable... The only fix I see is going to another vendor. ATI will only focus on the 9700, then after they piss off a few more dummies who buy their boards, they will announce and only support the 10,700 then the 11,700.


ATI will maintain complete support for their entire Radeon series because their drivers are unified and will remain unified. Any update to the R300 driver, will also fix problems to previous Radeon or my name isn't AMD_Man/Intel_Man/ATI_Man/nVidia_Man/PENTATHLON_MAN/EVERYTHING_MAN!

Quote:

As for "ati being ahead of Nvidia..." Don't you ever read the benchmarks in places like....Tomshardware.com? Nvidia always kicked ATI's ass. Also ATI is well-known for shi**y driver support (and I tend to agree with that). But I did not buy this card for blazing frame rates. I bought this card to WATCH Dolby DVDs and look what happened.


That was one year ago and this is now. ATI has absolutely top-of-the-line drivers, arguably better than anything nVidia ever had. This is coming from my experience with free-tech support, their free to-your-door service, their free CDs, and their interest in my ATI programs. :smile:
:wink:

I can tell you something juicy is about to be released from AMD_Man soon! :wink: :wink:

Can you say automatic updates, and the ability to make your own drivers for your ATI driver by mixing and matching driver components as well as the ability to solve driver conflicts nearly automatically? :wink: :wink:

That's all I'll say for now!


:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
July 24, 2002 11:37:35 PM

This is coming from my experience with free-tech support, their free to-your-door service, their free CDs

This is coming from MY experience, FROM YESTERDAY, with their $1.25/min 900# support, their "sorry, your 30 day courtesy support is over," and their $10 driver CDs that cost and additional $20 to ship 2-day air. I have 4 of these driver CDs now. The last one actually loads!

I'm sure you do not know this...ATI changed their support procedures last Monday. Now you have to be registered on line with product numbers and serial numbers, otherwise they will not talk to you. So if you buy a card from the flea market (you will soon see my 7500 over there. Maybe I can still get 10 bucks for this thing?) and the s/n is missing, you are S.O.L.

And in my case, when I asked about mpeg2 capture, YESTERDAY, I was told to call their 900#. I can tell you what I told the tech on the phone, but I'm sure this post would be deleted.

But let's stop this back and forth ATI is great/ATI sucks stuff. I'll wait and see for these supposedly new drivers.
However, I will not be surprised if all I notice is rearranged icons...with the same playback problems.
July 24, 2002 11:41:38 PM

This is coming from my experience with free-tech support, their free to-your-door service, their free CDs

This is coming from MY experience, FROM YESTERDAY, with their $1.25/min 900# support, their "sorry, your 30 day courtesy support is over," and their $10 driver CDs that cost and additional $20 to ship 2-day air. I have 4 of these driver CDs now. The last one actually loads!

I'm sure you do not know this...ATI changed their support procedures last Monday. Now you have to be registered on line with product numbers and serial numbers, otherwise they will not talk to you. So if you buy a card from the flea market and the s/n is missing, you are S.O.L.

And in my case, when I asked about mpeg2 capture, YESTERDAY, I was told to call their 900#. I can tell you what I told the tech on the phone, but I'm sure this post would be deleted.

But let's stop this back and forth ATI is great/ATI sucks stuff. I'll wait and see for these supposedly new drivers.
However, I will not be surprised if all I notice is rearranged icons...with the same playback problems.
July 24, 2002 11:55:38 PM

Quote:
I still can't comprehend why everybody thinks "no Dolby, no big deal."

I'm still going through withdrawl from the $30,000+ complete home theatre system. Now I'm down to my old 31" TV with high end stereo sound. I miss the suround sound, but I'm poor, and don't have the space for a nice surround system anyway. This is the first time I've not had a suround sound system to use since the early '80s. We had one of the early Dolby Pro Logic system that needed a powered center channel.

Forum Gigolo wanabe
July 25, 2002 9:34:08 AM

Hrm... well, I guess the only thing I can suggest is... wait for driver update. If it doesn't do what you want it to do, can it, get another card, sell the one you got to someone who is less discerning. But, sersiously, chill out, shake a martini, slap on a nicotine patch... and quit badmouthing something simply because it doesn't work in your setup.

BTW, I don't work for ATI :)  I also am familiar with Dolby Digital and the 5.1 standard of sound ecoding... I burn my own music onto DVD in the format because I like the flexibility it gives me in spatialising my instruments, so I can sympathise with you wanting what you paid for. I also practice Tai-Chi, which really helps reduce stress without drugs ;) 

-

I plugged my ram into my motherboard, but unplugged it when I smelled cooked mutton.
July 25, 2002 12:16:25 PM

Same issue but on DVX the sound take some lag compare to the frame but only when i scroll the movie like ''fast forward''.I must say i dont have try to solve the issue.

Are you from nvidia marketing becasue you look like so.

The day i meet a goth queen that tell me Intel suck.I turn in a lemming to fill is need in hardware.
July 25, 2002 3:49:28 PM

Did you say you were going to see one of those movies at the drive in???? Where do you live? I love drive ins!! You can bring in beer and munchies and smuggle people in the trunk. Why worry about Dolby sound when you can go to the drive in????
July 25, 2002 8:56:10 PM

Quote:
Re: ATI RADEON cannot play Dolby DVDs! [re: Myrmecophagavir]

I fail to understand why you're so bothered by ATI after one minor fixable bug.

Please read previous posts regarding importance of Dolby. Blah blah...

Is this really Re: me? Anyway, you still haven't said why you're not using your Audigy for the sound decoding.
July 25, 2002 10:17:22 PM

? Anyway, you still haven't said why you're not using your Audigy for the sound decoding.

If I was to do that, I would be using the Radeon's application for the video and the Audigy's app for the audio? I don't see how I can run both at the same time.

Remember...With "normal" operation, the sound card is completely bypassed during AC-3 playback. I have tried the Radeon without ANY sound card installed (just to eliminate all possible conflicts) and the Dolby audio is still progressively delayed.

Anyway, I want to thank everyone for their suggestions, but I'm done fiddling around with workarounds. As I previously mentioned, I've wasted a month messing with this (including building another Athlon PC specifically for this resource-pig of a video card)and have finally given up! So, for the present time, I'll just look at this issue as it is, which is: Fraudulent Advertising. I will patiently wait for the "big surprise from ATI" that AMD_Man mentioned.

However, I have learned plenty from my ATI experience! Therefore, I will make sure to wear my kevlar underwear and not be bending over when this "big surprise" arrives.
July 25, 2002 10:54:50 PM

Now I don't have an Audigy so I'm not sure, but don't both the Radeon and the Audigy have built-in S/PDIF? Connect the Radeon to the Audigy.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
!