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Please Help - Trying to get 802.11 internet connection via..

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Anonymous
June 19, 2004 4:46:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

I would like to BEAM my DSL connection from my office to my home via a
Yagi antenna. I have been researching this for a few days now and know
what I need to get and how to set it all up BUT... I don't know if it
is possible.

I keep reading - LINE of SITE - .... the distance I need is about 8km
(NOT miles). The land is FLAT and there are no buildings in the
way..... or at least anywhere near the hight of my office (about
50ft)... and my house is also VERY tall...(50ft also). But here is
what scares me... trees.... lots of them along the way.... big ones
too!

Does this LINE of site have to be 100% line of site or does it just
mean in the same direction. Do you think the signal can go through the
trees.

Please anyone give me some suggestions.
Anonymous
June 19, 2004 8:43:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

>Does this LINE of site have to be 100% line of site or does it just
>mean in the same direction. Do you think the signal can go through the
>trees.
>
>Please anyone give me some suggestions.

Trees are one thing you can blast through.

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010628.html
http://www.bextreme.net/wap11web/
http://www.d128.com/wireless/
http://www.craig-bartell.com/secret/Craigs_7km_802_11_B...
June 19, 2004 9:27:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

mikeycp3@yahoo.com (Kingz#1) wrote in news:4d451e16.0406191146.1fa78362
@posting.google.com:

> I would like to BEAM my DSL connection from my office to my home via a
> Yagi antenna. I have been researching this for a few days now and know
> what I need to get and how to set it all up BUT... I don't know if it
> is possible.
>
> I keep reading - LINE of SITE - .... the distance I need is about 8km
> (NOT miles). The land is FLAT and there are no buildings in the
> way..... or at least anywhere near the hight of my office (about
> 50ft)... and my house is also VERY tall...(50ft also). But here is
> what scares me... trees.... lots of them along the way.... big ones
> too!
>
> Does this LINE of site have to be 100% line of site or does it just
> mean in the same direction. Do you think the signal can go through the
> trees.
>
> Please anyone give me some suggestions.

Well the first reply to your post had a few links with some good
information, but as I read thru each linked page, I didn't see any answer
to your question about trees (without going past the linked pages).

So the answer is yes, trees do affect LOS. LOS means just that, LOS. If
you are an antenna, you can physically see the other antenna, not
counting for distance. Nothing between the two antenna's. While it is
true that you can blow thru some trees, you probably won't be able to get
thru a forest of trees.

The WISP I used to work for would install links in the late
fall/winter/early spring before the leaves grew in and achieve good
quality signals. Then in come the leaves and levels drop. Sometimes
making them virtually un-usable. Even worse during/right after a
rainfall. Many of the NearLOS link's would drop 10 - 20 dBm only because
the leaves grew in.

So how it was explained to me was this.....as you know, microwave ovens
operate in the 2.4 GHz range. That is because this is the resonant
frequency of water. The water in the food absorb's the rf energy and it
is converted into heat. When the tree's have leaves on them, the leaves
contain a lot of water which absorbs some of the energy and the surfaces
of the leaves are curved in every which way which causes a lot of
reflecting. After a rainfall there is also water coating the outsides of
the leaves which worsen's this altogether.

So yes, some tree's can be blown through, but a mile of thick tree
canopies, IMO, would be a tough stretch for any 2.4 gHz equipment
operating within FCC rules.
Related resources
Anonymous
June 19, 2004 10:54:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

>So yes, some tree's can be blown through, but a mile of thick tree
>canopies, IMO, would be a tough stretch for any 2.4 gHz equipment
>operating within FCC rules.

Could do the setup late this fall. With the way eqipment prices have
dropped you'll have made out good either way when you see what happens
come spring.
Anonymous
June 20, 2004 3:05:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

> Does this LINE of site have to be 100% line of site or does it just
> mean in the same direction. Do you think the signal can go through the
> trees.

Game over. You'll need to get DSL at your home too or cut down all the
trees.

David.
Anonymous
June 20, 2004 3:06:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

> Trees are one thing you can blast through.

Well, we don't know exactly how many trees we're talking about but he
said "lots" and "big ones" so I'm going with the NO answer over that
distance.

David.
Anonymous
June 20, 2004 2:29:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Is there any way to blast signal throught about 5 acres of dense tree
tops? They are about 30ft higher than the top of the two buildings.
Also.... There is a HUGE tower (twice as high as any tree around) that
is in clear sight of my destination building. It is in the back of
some local community center. Would it be possible to use this tower as
a middle point and relay the signal from the tower to my destination
building. If so how much do you think that they would charge me? What
is reasonable? Do I need a source of power at the tower? Would I need
any bridge there? Can I just joing the two antennas together to carry
the radiowaves. The tower already has 2 mircowave antennas on it. And
last.... where would be the best place (cheapest) to find someone who
could climb that high and point these? I'm not going to climb up that
high. How much do you think is reasonable to pay for the pointing.
Could all the pointing be done within a day?

Sorry for all the questions.


Thanks
June 20, 2004 8:01:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

mikeycp3@yahoo.com (Kingz#1) wrote in
news:4d451e16.0406200929.64900b1c@posting.google.com:

> Is there any way to blast signal throught about 5 acres of dense tree
> tops? They are about 30ft higher than the top of the two buildings.
> Also.... There is a HUGE tower (twice as high as any tree around) that
> is in clear sight of my destination building. It is in the back of
> some local community center. Would it be possible to use this tower as
> a middle point and relay the signal from the tower to my destination
> building. If so how much do you think that they would charge me? What
> is reasonable? Do I need a source of power at the tower? Would I need
> any bridge there? Can I just joing the two antennas together to carry
> the radiowaves.

Honestly, I've never thought of doing that. Seems that it might work. I'd
like to hear back from someone who has tried this.


>The tower already has 2 mircowave antennas on it. And
> last.... where would be the best place (cheapest) to find someone who
> could climb that high and point these? I'm not going to climb up that
> high. How much do you think is reasonable to pay for the pointing.
> Could all the pointing be done within a day?

My company was paying $1000 just to get a tower crew out to the site, plus
hourly time. In commercial application's, you've got to pay for INSURED,
experienced climber's. And might I ask, what kind of tower ? If it's a
privately owned radio tower, you MAY be able to talk to someone about it.
See if there's a sign on the building's door with a phone number. There
usually is a monthly fee involved, and some owner's charge based on how
high your antenna's are. A company may have a climber on staff.

>
> Sorry for all the questions.
>
>
> Thanks
>
Anonymous
June 21, 2004 3:22:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On 20 Jun 2004 16:01:34 -0500, DS wrote:

> mikeycp3@yahoo.com (Kingz#1) wrote in
> news:4d451e16.0406200929.64900b1c@posting.google.com:
>
>> Is there any way to blast signal throught about 5 acres of dense tree
>> tops? They are about 30ft higher than the top of the two buildings.
>> Also.... There is a HUGE tower (twice as high as any tree around) that
>> is in clear sight of my destination building. It is in the back of
>> some local community center. Would it be possible to use this tower as
>> a middle point and relay the signal from the tower to my destination
>> building. If so how much do you think that they would charge me? What
>> is reasonable? Do I need a source of power at the tower? Would I need
>> any bridge there? Can I just joing the two antennas together to carry
>> the radiowaves.
>
> Honestly, I've never thought of doing that. Seems that it might work. I'd
> like to hear back from someone who has tried this.
>
>>The tower already has 2 mircowave antennas on it. And
>> last.... where would be the best place (cheapest) to find someone who
>> could climb that high and point these? I'm not going to climb up that
>> high. How much do you think is reasonable to pay for the pointing.
>> Could all the pointing be done within a day?
>
> My company was paying $1000 just to get a tower crew out to the site, plus
> hourly time. In commercial application's, you've got to pay for INSURED,
> experienced climber's. And might I ask, what kind of tower ? If it's a
> privately owned radio tower, you MAY be able to talk to someone about it.
> See if there's a sign on the building's door with a phone number. There
> usually is a monthly fee involved, and some owner's charge based on how
> high your antenna's are. A company may have a climber on staff.
>
>>
>> Sorry for all the questions.
>>
>> Thanks
>>

Try:
<http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020207.html&...;


--
Barry
Anonymous
June 21, 2004 12:32:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On 19 Jun 2004 12:46:41 -0700, mikeycp3@yahoo.com (Kingz#1) wrote:

>I would like to BEAM my DSL connection from my office to my home via a
>Yagi antenna. I have been researching this for a few days now and know
>what I need to get and how to set it all up BUT...

==================
I can not answer your questions...BUT I also have questions on
extending my connection...

The distance I need to go is ONLY 150 or so feet... and I can get a
signal (poor...or low) using a Lynksys AP with a pair of longer
antennas from Radio Shack made for this AP....

The building is my wood shop...and the ONLY place I can put the
computer is on the opposite side of the shop away from the house, and
the computer has to be located INSIDE a cabinet ..( even running a
couple of dust collectors and air filters ... the shop is always
coated with sawdust )...

I can turn a wrench and work on my cars and I can build yo0u just
about any piece of furniture BUT I have no clue about wireless
communications etc... and my knowledge of Computers is maybe a little
better then average..but not much more...

I was wondering if I could just run a cable right off the PC cards
antenna connection to a spot OUTSIDE the building and closer to the
house TO Improve my connection... and attach the antenna that came
with the card to the other end of the cable...?

I did look at the Yagi site and ... I am still scratching my head...

Bob Griffiths
Anonymous
June 21, 2004 12:32:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 08:32:11 -0400, Bob G.
<rg327_remove_@adelphia.net> wrote:


>
>The distance I need to go is ONLY 150 or so feet... and I can get a
>signal (poor...or low) using a Lynksys AP with a pair of longer
>antennas from Radio Shack made for this AP....


I can't even get 60 feet with my Linksys and the Radio Shack
antennas... my wireless router is up on a shelf in my office and once
I go outside my house (about 50 feet) my signal drops to about nothing
on my PDA (using a Socket SDIO card).

I ther some other kind of antenna I can put on the Linksys?
Anonymous
June 21, 2004 12:45:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

> Is there any way to blast signal throught about 5 acres of dense tree
> tops? They are about 30ft higher than the top of the two buildings.

Well you could try taking a microwave oven apart and connect that to a
high gain antenna. In other words (legally) no.

> Could all the pointing be done within a day?

Most likely but can't help you with the other questions. I'd say that
the cost would far exceed the budget unless this is for commercial use.

David.
Anonymous
June 21, 2004 3:36:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

This should be the only thing you need and should fix your problem
once and for all. My friends swear by this device.

http://www.etherdesigns.com/pages/1/index.htm

it has received good reviews and commercial antennas that do the same
thing cost MUCH more.
Anonymous
June 21, 2004 3:57:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

>
>I can't even get 60 feet with my Linksys and the Radio Shack
>antennas... my wireless router is up on a shelf in my office and once
>I go outside my house (about 50 feet) my signal drops to about nothing
>on my PDA (using a Socket SDIO card).
>
>I ther some other kind of antenna I can put on the Linksys?

=================================
I also have the Linksys (801 B...not G) signal Booster sitting on top
of my router ... and outside I can get a good signal up to about 200
foot... without the booster I can get 100 foot ...SO you may want to
try adding that to your "system"...

If I knew anything about electronics I maybe would be able to help you
BUT as I noted in my original post I just no not. Linksys has a new
item on their web site...a repeater unit that I would like to
"see"..unfortunately no retail store in my area has them in stock...

Bob Griffiths
Anonymous
June 21, 2004 3:57:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:57:44 -0400, Bob G.
<rg327_remove_@adelphia.net> wrote:

>=================================
>I also have the Linksys (801 B...not G) signal Booster sitting on top
>of my router ... and outside I can get a good signal up to about 200
>foot... without the booster I can get 100 foot ...SO you may want to
>try adding that to your "system"...
>
>If I knew anything about electronics I maybe would be able to help you
>BUT as I noted in my original post I just no not. Linksys has a new
>item on their web site...a repeater unit that I would like to
>"see"..unfortunately no retail store in my area has them in stock...
>
>Bob Griffiths
Bob can you give me the model designator for the booster? Couldn't
find it on the Linksys site..just the booster for G.

TIA
Anonymous
June 21, 2004 4:34:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:57:44 -0400, Bob G.
<rg327_remove_@adelphia.net> wrote:

>If I knew anything about electronics I maybe would be able to help you
>BUT as I noted in my original post I just no not. Linksys has a new
>item on their web site...a repeater unit that I would like to
>"see"..unfortunately no retail store in my area has them in stock...
>
>Bob Griffiths
Where did you purchase your signal booster? Talked to a guy at Best
Buy a few minutes ago and he said COMPUSA had them frosale briefly and
then they were pulled off the shelves due to an issue with the FCC.

He also said they (BestBuy) expects to have them instock sometime in
July...so I guesss the FCC issue has been resloved.

B
Anonymous
June 21, 2004 11:33:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

> If I knew anything about electronics I maybe would be able to help you
> BUT as I noted in my original post I just no not. Linksys has a new
> item on their web site...a repeater unit that I would like to
> "see"..unfortunately no retail store in my area has them in stock...

No knowledge of electronics needed, you can drill a hole yes?

www.nodomainname.co.uk/cantenna/cantenna.htm
Anonymous
June 22, 2004 12:03:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Be careful boosting the signal on your router. If you have a big yard
with a great deal of space between your house and your neighbors'
house then boosting the signal is no big deal. To the contrary, if
you live in a typical close neighborhood where the space between
houses is the length of a twin bed, then you're opening your wireless
network to being hacked / piggybacked.


On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:57:44 -0400, Bob G.
<rg327_remove_@adelphia.net> wrote:

>>
>>I can't even get 60 feet with my Linksys and the Radio Shack
>>antennas... my wireless router is up on a shelf in my office and once
>>I go outside my house (about 50 feet) my signal drops to about nothing
>>on my PDA (using a Socket SDIO card).
>>
>>I ther some other kind of antenna I can put on the Linksys?
>
>=================================
>I also have the Linksys (801 B...not G) signal Booster sitting on top
>of my router ... and outside I can get a good signal up to about 200
>foot... without the booster I can get 100 foot ...SO you may want to
>try adding that to your "system"...
>
>If I knew anything about electronics I maybe would be able to help you
>BUT as I noted in my original post I just no not. Linksys has a new
>item on their web site...a repeater unit that I would like to
>"see"..unfortunately no retail store in my area has them in stock...
>
>Bob Griffiths
Anonymous
June 22, 2004 12:08:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 12:34:52 -0700, brian-s-jones-at-comcast.net
wrote:

>On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:57:44 -0400, Bob G.
><rg327_remove_@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>>If I knew anything about electronics I maybe would be able to help you
>>BUT as I noted in my original post I just no not. Linksys has a new
>>item on their web site...a repeater unit that I would like to
>>"see"..unfortunately no retail store in my area has them in stock...
>>
>>Bob Griffiths
>Where did you purchase your signal booster? Talked to a guy at Best
>Buy a few minutes ago and he said COMPUSA had them frosale briefly and
>then they were pulled off the shelves due to an issue with the FCC.
>
>He also said they (BestBuy) expects to have them instock sometime in
>July...so I guesss the FCC issue has been resloved.
>
>B

88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
The original signal boosters Were pulled from the market...some time
ago...However the one I am usig was purchased at Best Buy AFTER they
were returned to the shelves...hence that is why the booster I use is
for Wireless B not Wireless G ( Which I use).....but it works ...

I think the guy you talked to may be remembering the original
recall...BUT they returned last summer ...

Bob G.
Anonymous
June 22, 2004 12:12:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:03:42 GMT, Doug Jamal
<unimportantbishiv6atyahoodotcom@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Be careful boosting the signal on your router. If you have a big yard
>with a great deal of space between your house and your neighbors'
>house then boosting the signal is no big deal. To the contrary, if
>you live in a typical close neighborhood where the space between
>houses is the length of a twin bed, then you're opening your wireless
>network to being hacked / piggybacked.
>
>
8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
Good point...But my nearest neighbor is about 500 foot away (with
mature trees blocking the view plus she is a 60+ year old widow who
does ot even own a computer....

Bob Griffiths
(country boy I guess)
Anonymous
June 22, 2004 2:31:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:03:42 GMT, Doug Jamal
<unimportantbishiv6atyahoodotcom@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Be careful boosting the signal on your router. If you have a big yard
>with a great deal of space between your house and your neighbors'
>house then boosting the signal is no big deal. To the contrary, if
>you live in a typical close neighborhood where the space between
>houses is the length of a twin bed, then you're opening your wireless
>network to being hacked / piggybacked.
>
>
Thanks...I understand that...I live in the middle of four acres with a
deep perimeter of 125 foot plus cedars and firs.
Anonymous
June 22, 2004 2:33:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:08:31 -0400, Bob G <Rg327@Adephia.net> wrote:

>88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
>The original signal boosters Were pulled from the market...some time
>ago...However the one I am usig was purchased at Best Buy AFTER they
>were returned to the shelves...hence that is why the booster I use is
>for Wireless B not Wireless G ( Which I use).....but it works ...
>
>I think the guy you talked to may be remembering the original
>recall...BUT they returned last summer ...

The only signal boosters showing up on Linksys' site are for "G".

B
Anonymous
June 22, 2004 4:57:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

lol Bob. Boost away and enjoy :) 

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:12:55 -0400, Bob G <Rg327@Adephia.net> wrote:
<snipped>
>8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
>Good point...But my nearest neighbor is about 500 foot away (with
>mature trees blocking the view plus she is a 60+ year old widow who
>does ot even own a computer....
>
>Bob Griffiths
>(country boy I guess)
!