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Please answer me about Radeon 9700 and AGP 4x

Forum Graphic & Displays : Graphics Cards - Please answer me about Radeon 9700 and AGP 4x

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MrCat   07-31-2002 at 02:16:58 PM

I want to buy Soltek motherboard (sl75drv4 or sl75drv5) and I also want to buy Radeon 9700 (or 9500). How many % of radeon speed I will loose with this motherboard (only because of AGP4x)? Please write approximate number (and why you think so).

How many % with sl75drv4 and R9700?
How many % with sl75drv4 and R9500?

How many % with sl75drv5 and R9700?
How many % with sl75drv5 and R9500?


thank you !

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by MrCat on 08/01/02 06:28 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

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Jake75   07-31-2002 at 02:35:51 PM
- 0 +

1.389%

No, probably nothing worth mentioning.

<font color=green>One step closer to monkey</font color=green>

Reply to Jake75
MrCat   07-31-2002 at 05:54:46 PM
- 0 +

so you are saying that there will be no loss at all?

Reply to MrCat
Jake75   07-31-2002 at 06:01:57 PM
- 0 +

Yep.
You could say that.

It wont take advantage of the whole bandwidth of AGPx8 anyway, it´s just a marketing gimmic, sort of.

<font color=green>One step closer to monkey</font color=green>

Reply to Jake75
bront   07-31-2002 at 08:24:33 PM
- 0 +

AGP 4X doesn't come into play too much over 2X as it is, maybe causing a 1-30% drop in overall speed, depending on the game. 8X shouldn't be a realy issue for quite a while to come.

I think the benchmarks were run on an 4X Machine btw.

Forum Gigolo wanabe

Reply to bront
starwrs3   08-01-2002 at 12:23:44 AM
- 0 +

The Radeon 9700 can pump out 1 vertex / polygon per clock, so we're talking 300+ million polys per second. Generally, vertex data is transferred over the AGP bus. Minimum data for a vertex is 12 bytes (3 32-bit values for x,y,z). Now an optimized mesh has a maximum of 2 polygons per vertex, so that makes 12*300/2 = 1800 MB per second.

AGP 8x is 2.1 GB per second. Even under ideal conditions, if you were to use the 9700's full poly power, AGP 8x is barely enough, and only under ideal conditions. Now, a vertex shader will reduce the bandwidth requirements significantly since the card couldn't do one polygon per clock then, but remember that the average vertex size will also increase by quite a bit, and average meshes would have a higher vertex to poly ratio.

I know this is a bit complicated, but when games start using more polys, and when textures are forced to be transferred from AGP instead of video memory, AGP 8x will definately be useful in harnessing a video card's full power.

Reply to starwrs3
starwrs3   08-01-2002 at 12:23:44 AM
- 0 +

The Radeon 9700 can pump out 1 vertex / polygon per clock, so we're talking 300+ million polys per second. Generally, vertex data is transferred over the AGP bus. Minimum data for a vertex is 12 bytes (3 32-bit values for x,y,z). Now an optimized mesh has a maximum of 2 polygons per vertex, so that makes 12*300/2 = 1800 MB per second.

AGP 8x is 2.1 GB per second. Even under ideal conditions, if you were to use the 9700's full poly power, AGP 8x is barely enough, and only under ideal conditions. Now, a vertex shader will reduce the bandwidth requirements significantly since the card couldn't do one polygon per clock then, but remember that the average vertex size will also increase by quite a bit, and average meshes would have a higher vertex to poly ratio.

I know this is a bit complicated, but when games start using more polys, and when textures are forced to be transferred from AGP instead of video memory, AGP 8x will definately be useful in harnessing a video card's full power.

Reply to starwrs3
Chuck232   08-01-2002 at 04:26:51 AM
- 0 +

Well, by the time they start having that much, they'll have AGP8X as the norm and some new AGPIIPro will be able to push 4.2GB/s. Just shows how tech advances and companies will not make games that only 5% of the market can play.

:lol: Finally, I get a capitalized title!! WOOT!! :lol:

Reply to Chuck232
Crashman   08-01-2002 at 04:45:53 AM
- 0 +

Intel is supposed to be releasing a TOTALLY NEW AGP standard in the not too distant future (2 years or less I think). Most likely by the time AGP8x can make a significant impact on performance, it will be outdated.

<font color=blue>By now you're probably wishing you had ask more questions first!</font color=blue>

Reply to Crashman
BlindJoker   08-01-2002 at 05:06:29 AM
- 0 +

Hey, I don't understand this losing speed. Can someone explain it to me plz. I am new to this one and what is this an 8x agp?

thx

Reply to BlindJoker
MrCat   08-01-2002 at 12:25:16 PM
- 0 +

blindjoker> AGP 4x (standart of today´s) can transfer 1GB per second. New Radeon use AGP 8x (2 GB per second). So I was askind does it use AGP 8x fully and how much speed I will loose using ATI with AGP4x.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by MrCat on 08/01/02 06:30 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

Reply to MrCat
MrCat   08-01-2002 at 12:50:33 PM
- 0 +

starwrs3> you were talking about games here. But I am much more interested in 3D graphics (softimage XSI). Is it same there?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by MrCat on 08/01/02 06:58 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

Reply to MrCat
Jake75   08-01-2002 at 01:04:38 PM
- 0 +

I think a Readeon 9700 will do just fine when used with Softimage and other 3D apps.
If it gets messy in the scene just hide som stuff.

I am using 3D Studio with a Geforce2Mx (it´s a laughing matter, I know)...well, I usually end up with scenes around a million polys or so without any real problems...

It´s when you want to playback, things are getting nasty and it would be nice with a fatter card.

<font color=green>One step closer to monkey</font color=green>

Reply to Jake75
MrCat   08-01-2002 at 07:03:47 PM
- 0 +

welllll I know that it will be not worse than GF2MX but I am here trying to know how much better it will be and is it worth of such money. For instance ATI FireGL 8800 is really nothing special compared to GF2pro. And it is not worth of such money for sure.

Reply to MrCat
bront   08-01-2002 at 11:38:23 PM
- 0 +

Sounds like most Intel updates (SSE, SSE2, MMX, ect). And hardware updates too for that matter.

Forum Gigolo wanabe

Reply to bront
Crashman   08-02-2002 at 05:39:25 AM
- 0 +

Well, at least Intel replaced the Pentium core with the Pentium Pro core. At the heart of every nVidia core is a 128ZX!

<font color=blue>By now you're probably wishing you had ask more questions first!</font color=blue>

Reply to Crashman
Nordor   08-02-2002 at 11:31:29 AM
- 0 +

i'm going to upgrade me system in a month or 2 and i'll get a radeon 9700. i were thinking about getting a Gigabyte GA-7VRXP mbo, but it hasn't got agp 8x.
what shall i do? will there be released good mbos in a month or 2, or doesn't it really matter if i've got a mbo with only agp 4x?

Reply to Nordor
Crashman   08-02-2002 at 11:34:44 AM
- 0 +

LMAO! I just "upgraded" from a 2x board to a 4x board with my Radeon DDR and lost 40 marks in 3D-Mark 2001SE!

Right now AGP4x is underutilized, AGP8x will probably be underutilized for quite a while yet.

<font color=blue>By now you're probably wishing you had ask more questions first!</font color=blue>

Reply to Crashman
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