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R8500 finally performing close to ti 4400 YES!!!!

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August 2, 2002 3:08:37 AM

The latest catalyst drivers are out and speed boosts of 20 to over 30% in some benchmarks bringing the card into ti 4400 territory. The info is from hardocp, imagine what this should do for the r9700. DROOL DROOL DROOL DROOL DROOL DROOL DROOL DROOL DROOL DROOL DROOL DROOL
August 2, 2002 6:56:46 AM

i highly doubt it.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
August 2, 2002 8:13:15 AM

hopefully, we'll see some benches from Toms or some other reputable sites.
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August 2, 2002 11:31:40 AM

Explaination please. Anybody can say I doubt it.
August 2, 2002 12:50:16 PM

Brent of HardOCP just posted some prelim results using the new drivers. Basically no improvement at all using his VIA mobo and ATi 8500.

I've been reading of a lot of problems installing the new drivers too, but mostly from people who are too lazy to properly uninstall. Seems to have some issues with SOF2 as well.
August 2, 2002 1:08:25 PM

Actually there IS improvement. I haven't checked out these drivers but the beta drivers that were coming out like crazy after the first Catalyst release were giving nice OpenGL performance gains of 1-10% average.

1° of separation between my monopoly and yours. That's business with .NET
August 2, 2002 1:28:34 PM

Yes, I am aware that the beta drivers were offering some very nice performance increases. But from the prelim results posted by some users, it would appear that this certified version may or may not do it.
August 2, 2002 1:42:00 PM

Quote:

Brent of HardOCP just posted some prelim results using the new drivers. Basically no improvement at all using his VIA mobo and ATi 8500.

I've been reading of a lot of problems installing the new drivers too, but mostly from people who are too lazy to properly uninstall. Seems to have some issues with SOF2 as well.


You'll notice that I posted there at hardforums. I'm on an overclocked P4 system with RDRAM (2.66GHz, to avoid overheating with my stock HSF) at the moment and it DOES run a lot faster in Quake 3 at 1600*1200 MAX with 16X Aniso. It even runs faster at 1024*768.

I don't have SOF2, but the demo runs perfectly. MOH:AA runs fine too with a noticable performance boost. UT runs at ~160FPS with regular textures and ~90FPS with detailed textures (this isn't a normal option, you have to edit the .ini file to enable it but it does significantly improve texture resolution). My 3DMark2001 score is still around ~10600. Star Trek Armada and Star Trek Armada 2 are no faster. Sims (The Sims+House Party+Hot Date) doesn't seem affected but it doesn't stress the graphics card. Max Payne runs everywhere from 70fps (lots of bad guys shooting on screen) to 180FPS (walking in a closed room). RTCW runs noticably faster at 1600*1200.


This is by no means an accurate assessment. I could create a Ghost image of my hard drive and try the old drivers and go back to the new ones but I don't have the time and I don't feel like wasting 20CDs at the moment. I only have one partition set up at the moment on this computer and my version of Ghost is limited to local storage. I can't save the image on another computer on my network unfortunately. It's too much of a hassle for me to wipe out the hard drive and try the two drivers side-by-side at the moment. I've been begging my parents to let me spend some my leftover money for an extra hard drive and Partition Magic. They don't like the idea. They want me to "invest" in new technology. They're telling me that they might get me a DVD burner by Christmas. I guess I'm ok with that but can Norton Ghost even burn DVD-Rs or DVD-RWs?

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
August 2, 2002 1:46:07 PM

Linkage please.

Forum Gigolo wanabe
August 2, 2002 1:49:37 PM

Welcome back AMD_Man :) 

And, if it can burn to CD-R/RWs, it should be able to burn to DVD-R/RW

Forum Gigolo wanabe
August 2, 2002 2:05:54 PM

I don't think he's back actually.

BTW, I'm past you!! You gotta post more man! You're a great help here.

:lol:  Finally, I get a capitalized title!! WOOT!! :lol: 
August 2, 2002 2:11:15 PM

Just wanted to warn everybody before they jumped onto the high performance bandwagon. I recommend paranoid measures so you don't run into any problems.

These drivers appear to work. They are even being included in the next WinXP service pack as official drivers. But you MUST uninstall any beta drivers you had previously. My guess is many people in the Hard OCP forums had beta 6118 drivers installed and expected the Catalyst 2.2's to go over them like gravy. Also you should also return your card back to its original clock speeds before any driver update. If you had drivers that were less demanding on the video card, and that allowed you to go up to 300Mhz core speed, then new drivers which are more demanding on the video card may cause system instability at the same 300Mhz core speed.

And if you have normal 2.1 drivers some people report problems with installing 2.2's over them. Uninstall all drivers first before you install new ones. Again, this appears to be bad work on ATi's part. They probably have stable drivers but their installation program doesn't account for everything that can go wrong.

Good luck and happy gaming!

1° of separation between my monopoly and yours. That's business with .NET
August 2, 2002 2:14:13 PM

Quote:

I don't think he's back actually.

I've decided I won't leave entirely, lol! I'll avoid the CPU section but I'll pop in once in a while to help people in the other forums on THGC, or hype up ATI's new products/drivers. :wink: I'll be back at full force once THGC gets a moderator.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
August 2, 2002 2:21:15 PM

Well, it's great to see you around at least a bit. Ahhhh.... I've gotta pick up your slack in the CPU section I guess. Now with a lot of people posting less and a lot of noobs around, there's so much work to do :wink: !!

:lol:  Finally, I get a capitalized title!! WOOT!! :lol: 
August 2, 2002 2:54:35 PM

Quote:
BTW, I'm past you!! You gotta post more man! You're a great help here.

Thanks. I've been busy with work, going on vacation soon (Up to Gen Con, I'm writing the second modual for a living 7th Seas campaign called Song of the Sea), and moderating a different forum. I'll probably post a bit more later this month when(If?) I get a bit more free time, and my cable modem stays up.

Forum Gigolo wanabe
August 2, 2002 3:30:44 PM

Quote:
I've decided I won't leave entirely, lol! I'll avoid the CPU section but I'll pop in once in a while to help people in the other forums on THGC, or hype up ATI's new products/drivers. I'll be back at full force once THGC gets a moderator.

good to have you back...even if its just every now and then...
i dunno why people are having trouble installing new drivers...i mean...one is <b>supposed</b> to uninstall and old drivers before installing any new ones...
in any case...i do see an inprovement with these new drivers...

:eek:  <b>L <font color=red>A</font color=red> e <font color=red>T</font color=red> a <font color=red>I</font color=red> K</b> :eek: 
August 2, 2002 7:18:46 PM

Quote:
Brent of HardOCP just posted some prelim results using the new drivers. Basically no improvement at all using his VIA mobo and ATi 8500.

I've been reading of a lot of problems installing the new drivers too, but mostly from people who are too lazy to properly uninstall. Seems to have some issues with SOF2 as well.


Thats what i mean by I doubt it, also, no benchmarks and a press release quote from ati.

ALSO, on 1600x1200 extreme quality(which isnt playable anyways) so, thats why I doubt it.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
August 3, 2002 4:27:40 AM

Again I believe he may have used normal settings. The performance gains may come from using high quality settings.

1° of separation between my monopoly and yours. That's business with .NET
August 3, 2002 8:04:13 PM

From the press release, the improvements are ONLY in extreme aniso at extreme resolutions which arent playable, so the HYPE, is bs, this driver will NOT give the 8500 ti4400 performance, NOT EVEN CLOSE!

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
August 3, 2002 9:00:51 PM

Actually, Aniso doesn't hurt performance on the R8500 so it is playable.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
August 3, 2002 9:34:17 PM

Mat, I am in agreement with you. This hold campaign is HYPE! Soon, we will see who earns the right to fly their flag above the other...ATI/nVidia. So, when we the consumers get both produces and test them ourselves, then the marketing hype will display it's true colors. The real winner will be the one whose driver's actually work.

<font color=purple><b>An average human brain weights aprox. 3lbs., but a thought weights a load.</font color=purple></b>
August 3, 2002 10:58:10 PM

Quote:

Mat, I am in agreement with you. This hold campaign is HYPE! Soon, we will see who earns the right to fly their flag above the other...ATI/nVidia. So, when we the consumers get both produces and test them ourselves, then the marketing hype will display it's true colors. The real winner will be the one whose driver's actually work.

Actually, the performance improvements are tangible, but there are a few problems with the Catalyst's 2D core. I've e-mailed ATI about the problem. They'll probably reply on Tuesday (they're closed on Monday, Civic holiday). Anyway, I'll get my new R8500 (second R8500, :wink: ) by next week. I'll test both Catalyst drivers for stability on both my Athlon and P4 system.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
August 4, 2002 1:28:45 AM

keep bashing i run allmy game with anis at 16X and 2X qualaity 1200*1000 or 1024*800

The day i meet a goth queen that tell me Intel suck.I turn in a lemming to fill is need in hardware.
August 4, 2002 1:29:02 AM

keep bashing i run all my game with aniso at 16X and 2X quality 1200*1000 or 1024*800

The day i meet a goth queen that tell me Intel suck.I turn in a lemming to fill is need in hardware.
August 4, 2002 2:06:47 AM

I have start downloading spec viewperf so we will se if that true opengl improvement or olny for few game aslo it quite huge to download 280 mb

The day i meet a goth queen that tell me Intel suck.I turn in a lemming to fill is need in hardware.
August 4, 2002 4:09:43 AM

Main problem I see is while anyone who supports ATi can have the tendency to be naive about it, nvidia folks still refuse to accept any kind of win from ATi in this competition.

It's invidious, I say.

1° of separation between my monopoly and yours. That's business with .NET
August 4, 2002 3:25:33 PM

Quote:
It's invidious, I say.

BINGO! You couldn't have said it better. If they both would focus on what the consumer's wants and stop trying to out do each other, then they would be able to produce quality results. It's the rat-race to be #1 that is INVIDIOUS.

<font color=purple><b>An average human brain weights aprox. 3lbs., but a thought weights a load.</font color=purple></b>
August 4, 2002 9:38:58 PM

Nvidia is going to take a beating. If they don't have an answer to the 9700 by the holiday season, they will lose a large share of the market.

To start press any key. Where's the "any" key? --Homer Simpson.
August 4, 2002 10:35:04 PM

may i point out to you , and to everyone on this post that these flagship cards are only but a very very very small part of what matters to these companies in the venue of marketshare...

all the Ti4600s and the upcoming 9700 wont really matter in the marketshare for this companies....its the lower end cards..and which of them have kind of good price/performance...for the OEMs ofcourse...and there's the mobile sector ofcourse....
August 4, 2002 11:31:57 PM

Perhaps I should have written profits instead of marketshare. Like SUV's, the profit margins on the high-end graphics cards are much greater than the lower-end cards. A Ford dealer would much rather sell 1 Expedition than 3 Contours.

To start press any key. Where's the "any" key? --Homer Simpson.
August 5, 2002 12:14:44 AM

Yeah you are right, the gaming industry is the low end, but the volumes are huge when it comes to a company's P/E. The collapse of great companies usually start with the small stuff, kinda like a domino-effect when one division leads to compromise in another, until a small profit loss become a major concern. The media has a way of amplifying small stuff to make shareholders nervous, and neither ATI/nVidia want that type of attention. Especailly now in these troubled times. Bad business rumors is like a virus to any company.

<font color=purple><b>An average human brain weights aprox. 3lbs., but a thought weights a load.</font color=purple></b>
August 5, 2002 4:13:24 AM

I'm not so sure that Nvidia will collapse, but perhaps chiseled away at little by little. Nvidia isn't used to being second banana. Whenever any company produced anything close to competing with Nvidia's flagship, Nvidia would come out with a monster card. Well, it looks like ATI pulled an Nvidia on Nvidia!

To start press any key. Where's the "any" key? --Homer Simpson.
August 5, 2002 5:33:26 AM

well its all good for the customer.
nvidia really doesnt like being second bean, and by the looks of it the 9700 will be doing some serious buttock spankin.

end result, more competition and lower prices :smile:

<b>Before visiting THG i was a clueless noob. Now im still clueless, but look at my nice title!<b>
August 5, 2002 12:35:51 PM

Well the latest report in the THG article that the nv30 won't have test boards available for another 6 months was a real shocker. I have a feeling nvidia will probably beat this estimate, cause they have got to steaming mad about this.

Quote:
end result, more competition and lower prices :smile:


Not so sure about that, and if you've read all my other posts you know I'm obviously skeptical about the state of the industry right now. Did you know that nvidia is under investigation by the SEC for accounting practices? Probably nothing serious and it could just be a sweep by the SEC to look into all the major companies (judging by the closed nature of it, and lack of press) but it's alarming. The reason why is that last quarter nvidia readjusted their initial earnings report for that quarter saying and came up with more profit than originally expected. The fact that the stock has fallen to just 13% of its original value ever since January really puts unbelievably pressure on Nvidia to calm its investors. ATi's stock, meanwhile has only fallen to 38% of its original value at the start of January.

1° of separation between my monopoly and yours. That's business with .NET
August 5, 2002 11:53:38 PM

hmmm. hadnt heard that.
i guess i just want the prices of ti 4200's to come down from amazingly high prices over here.
auzzie dollars suck. :frown:
but now im really considering not doing a ti 4200 as an upgrade. i really want that r300 dual channel card :) 

<b>Before visiting THG i was a clueless noob. Now im still clueless, but look at my nice title!<b>
August 5, 2002 11:57:48 PM

That'll probably be ~Q1-Q2 2003. You'll save up $1000000AUD by then! :tongue:

<i>Past mistakes may make you look stupid, but avoiding future ones will make you look smart!</i>
!