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Fire or lightning trapsin?

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Anonymous
March 8, 2005 4:55:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Hi,

I'm trying to build a trapsin (my first one), and I'v got a question
concerning the skill distribution.

Skills in question:

- wake of fire
- lightning sentry
- death senty

Wake of fire seems to be the weakest regarding average damage, but the
flames seem to hit multiple monsters, thus giving damage to each of them?

Lightning sentry has more total lightning damage and shoots 10 times,
but I guess the corpse explosion from death sentry outweights that?

More general: what's your suggestion for the primary trap skill(s) for a
trapsin?

--
c.u.
Hajo

More about : fire lightning trapsin

Anonymous
March 8, 2005 5:38:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

> Lightning sentry has more total lightning damage and shoots 10 times,
> but I guess the corpse explosion from death sentry outweights that?

death sentry shoots more often with fire blast synergy, i guess you noticed.

a good lightning trapsin will max both, lightning and death sentry. actually
she will put points into the other synergies to boost damage even more, but
that depends on you. dont forget that there is hell where you need a more
versatile build.
in normal and nm you are fine using lightning sentry, or better put 4 li
sentries and one death sentry.
in hell i'm sometimes only using death sentry, as i'm lazy with hotkeys :D 
death sentry is your main killer in hell, use li sentry to get the first
corpse faster.

> More general: what's your suggestion for the primary trap skill(s) for a
> trapsin?

as said above, lightning trap path is the easiest. never tried the fire
path, heard of some buggy behaviour of the fire traps, like wrong range, but
actually another one maybe know more about that one.

i'd like to go ahead and suggest fire blast to be your secondary skill, it
receives great synergies from the lightning traps. with burst of speed you
can throw those pretty quick and hurt those li monsters. but make sure you
have a stable merc and shadowmaster on your side.
places like the way to mephisto are not much fun for her...
stefan
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 6:04:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Stefan Roth wrote::

>>Lightning sentry has more total lightning damage and shoots 10 times,
>>but I guess the corpse explosion from death sentry outweights that?
>
> death sentry shoots more often with fire blast synergy, i guess you noticed.

I noticed that, but a bit too late. ATM (clvl 28) I have 6 points in
wake of fire, and it's getting a bit weak in acts 4 and 5.

I guess I should've rather spend those on fire blast. (I have 12
unallocated points left, so I still have a bit of flexibility).

> a good lightning trapsin will max both, lightning and death sentry. actually
> she will put points into the other synergies to boost damage even more, but
> that depends on you. dont forget that there is hell where you need a more
> versatile build.

I've never reached hell so far, so I can just rely on your hints :) 

Actually that's the reason why I'm asking. I don't want to screw this
character too much - creating a less than optimal character is ok fore
me as a beginner, but I 'd liek to have a fair chance to get through all
parts of the game.

>>More general: what's your suggestion for the primary trap skill(s) for a
>>trapsin?
>
> as said above, lightning trap path is the easiest. never tried the fire
> path, heard of some buggy behaviour of the fire traps, like wrong range, but
> actually another one maybe know more about that one.

I tried to search forums and strategy compendiums, but only some PvP
guides mention the higher fire traps like wake of fire or wake of inferno.

In SP (offline) I have a clvl 39 trapsin with points in WoF and WoI and
I think WoI is quite useless. WoF is weak, but stuns monsters which is
handy - at least in normal difficulty it works well. I didn't notice
bugs in the fire traps, they just seem to be generally weaker than the
lightning traps. I've reached nightmare difficulty with that char and
switched to death sentry as primary trap. It seems to be ok so far.

> i'd like to go ahead and suggest fire blast to be your secondary skill, it
> receives great synergies from the lightning traps.

That's right. I assume I considered the synergies too little.

> with burst of speed you
> can throw those pretty quick and hurt those li monsters. but make sure you
> have a stable merc and shadowmaster on your side.

I'm not quite sure about the best merc, but I can experiemtn with that a
bit, since I still have a big part of game in front of me. The skills I
can't change later so it's important to do it right now.

I'm going for a shadow master as tank, will put a lot of points in there
- not sure how much, some say 17 are enough. Will see how it works. ATM
I'm desperately waiting (levelling) for clvl 30 :) 

> places like the way to mephisto are not much fun for her...

*sniff* Mephisto is my favorite super unique to kill ... meph runs are
still popular, and so far none of the party members complained too much
about my chars weakness.

> stefan

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 7:12:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

> I noticed that, but a bit too late. ATM (clvl 28) I have 6 points in
> wake of fire, and it's getting a bit weak in acts 4 and 5.
> I guess I should've rather spend those on fire blast. (I have 12
> unallocated points left, so I still have a bit of flexibility).

well, of course not nice, trapsin builds need every point available.
still those 6 points can work now as a synergy to fireblast, so not too bad.
start maxing your li traps first.

> Actually that's the reason why I'm asking. I don't want to screw this
> character too much - creating a less than optimal character is ok fore
> me as a beginner, but I 'd liek to have a fair chance to get through all
> parts of the game.

the best way to learn is to make your own build and see what you can do
better the next time :D 
don't give up on this one yet.

> I'm not quite sure about the best merc, but I can experiemtn with that a
> bit, since I still have a big part of game in front of me. The skills I
> can't change later so it's important to do it right now.

trapsins like freeze mercs (act2 nm defensive merc) a lot, they slowdown the
monsters and make sure they stay there where your trap fires to. this also
adds some safety for your char. of course you can choose an act2 might merc
or act5 barb, as they can deal quicker with those li monsters. i'd prefer
the freezer.

> I'm going for a shadow master as tank, will put a lot of points in there
> - not sure how much, some say 17 are enough. Will see how it works. ATM
> I'm desperately waiting (levelling) for clvl 30 :) 

people say that a shadowmaster will receive the best gear from lvl17 on. it
depends on your +skill gear how many points you will put there. it shouldn't
be too difficult to find stuff for about +5 to skills, so 12 hard points
should be enough.

> > places like the way to mephisto are not much fun for her...
>
> *sniff* Mephisto is my favorite super unique to kill ... meph runs are
> still popular, and so far none of the party members complained too much
> about my chars weakness.

nm meph is no problem for her, hell is a different story.
almost everything down there is lightning immune, except the dolls :D 
just make sure to RUN whenever dolls run up to you and your traps start
firing :D 
stefan
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 7:48:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Stefan Roth wrote::

>>Actually that's the reason why I'm asking. I don't want to screw this
>>character too much - creating a less than optimal character is ok fore
>>me as a beginner, but I 'd liek to have a fair chance to get through all
>>parts of the game.
>
> the best way to learn is to make your own build and see what you can do
> better the next time :D 
> don't give up on this one yet.

So far I like her and will continue to fight my way to baal later the day :) 

>>I'm not quite sure about the best merc [...]

> trapsins like freeze mercs (act2 nm defensive merc) a lot, they slowdown the
> monsters and make sure they stay there where your trap fires to. this also
> adds some safety for your char.

Currently I use an act 3 frost/ice type merc. He is quite efficient in
freezing foes, too. I never used an act2 merc with any of my chars. They
died way too quickly, but I see a lot of people using them, so I assume
it's my style of play that kills them.

> of course you can choose an act2 might merc
> or act5 barb, as they can deal quicker with those li monsters. i'd prefer
> the freezer.

I pondered about the barb option, but I delayed the decision since my
act 3 merc does quite well currently.

> nm meph is no problem for her, hell is a different story.

Often I've lost motivation after finishing normal difficulty and
wandering a bit into nightmare. I don't know why, but my characters (SP,
offline) all ended their active careers in the late 30s character
levels. So far I have a barbarian, a sorceress, a necro, a druid, and an
assassin in act 1 nightmare. I don't like the paladins, sorry guys, and
amazons are too complex for me.

I'll see if it's different in an online game. I've got a flatrate just
last week, so it's all pretty new and exciting to me :) 

> almost everything down there is lightning immune, except the dolls :D 
> just make sure to RUN whenever dolls run up to you and your traps start
> firing :D 

Jogging is healthy. In the game and in real life ;) 

Thanks for all your help!

> stefan

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 7:03:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

short wrote::

> "Hansjoerg Malthaner" <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote

>>Had to do Baal two times, the first time with help of a necro, but my
>>connection failed in the very moment Baal died (aaaaaarghh!) and even if
>>the video played, my character was not listed as slayer. I couldn't
>>rejoin the game. A second try a little later with the help of a
>>sorceress was successful, but the poor sorc died lots in the battle :( 
>
> Hehe, I hate it when that happens!!!

Me too. I spend about 5 hours on that, several times my connection broke
while fighting baals minions or even in the upper levels of the
worldstone keep.

Anyways, it's done. Just feeling a bit bad because the sorceress in the
final game didn't get as much support from me as she deserved, because
it was getting late and I was too focused on finally killing baal that
day. I don't even recall her name, so I can send her some apologies for
my lack of support and the reasons :( 

> However, if you normally don't plan on leaving Normal, max Wake of Fire and
> max Wake of Inferno would be a decent combo.
> WoF would be doing 168-192
> WoI would be doing 535-623

I had a single player trapsin who used wake of inferno and it was a big
disappointment. Most monster move too fast so it can't hit them
effectively. I gave up on that plan very soon.

> Then you could use WoF against the packs of not so tough monsters, and WoF
> for the Bosses and such. Heck, that might even work a bit into NM, but
> probably not for very long.

Yesterday evening, after killing Baal, I took a short snoop into
nightmare and it went surprisingly well. Mosters are hard enough to be
interesting, and easy enough to be fun to kill.

But it was day of bad luck for my co-players. A palading joined my game,
I sent him a town portal, he came in and died the next second due to a
fireball from one of those shamens. I guess he wasn't at full health,
but it must be a frustrating start if you come to help a lower level
character and start with dying.

>>Since level 30 I spent all points on shadow master, currently at level
>>8. My style of play seems to need a strong tank, and the shadow master
>>is prefect for that.
>
> Yup, the ShadowMaster is probably the best Minion you can have, as far as
> versatility goes.

I sometimes wonder if party members can tell her from me :) 

> You could put a point into Blade Fury too, its fun to throw around to help
> with the traps.

I'm a bit slow with the keyboard, so I tried to build a character who
uses few skills only and I can lazily use left-click and right-click :) 

I think it was a necro that I once had who really made me work the
keyboard in tight battles. I retired him in favour of an easier character :) 

Still my next try will be a golemancer. I hope for a lazy life with that
one, too :) 

But first I want to adventure a bit further with my trapsin.

> Good luck!!!

Thanks :) 

> short

--
c.u. Hajo
Lvl 37 Trapsin *Kata-Zong, SC Ladder, Europe
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 7:03:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

"Hansjoerg Malthaner" <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote in message
news:39b5ubF61nu2bU1@individual.net...
> short wrote::
>
> > "Hansjoerg Malthaner" <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote
>
> >>Had to do Baal two times, the first time with help of a necro, but my
> >>connection failed in the very moment Baal died (aaaaaarghh!) and even if
> >>the video played, my character was not listed as slayer. I couldn't
> >>rejoin the game. A second try a little later with the help of a
> >>sorceress was successful, but the poor sorc died lots in the battle :( 
> >
> > Hehe, I hate it when that happens!!!
>
> Me too. I spend about 5 hours on that, several times my connection broke
> while fighting baals minions or even in the upper levels of the
> worldstone keep.
>
I have a cable internet connection now, I don't know how I ever played on a
dial up connection before. If I lost the connection I have now, I'd
probably just play Single Player offline.

> Anyways, it's done. Just feeling a bit bad because the sorceress in the
> final game didn't get as much support from me as she deserved, because
> it was getting late and I was too focused on finally killing baal that
> day. I don't even recall her name, so I can send her some apologies for
> my lack of support and the reasons :( 
>
The other day I sent up a TP and told the person in town it was safe, and
right before he walked in my Merc ran around the corner and woke up a Boss
Pack of archers. Dead Paladin, as soon a he stepped through. Heh, that was
bad. :) 

> > However, if you normally don't plan on leaving Normal, max Wake of Fire
and
> > max Wake of Inferno would be a decent combo.
> > WoF would be doing 168-192
> > WoI would be doing 535-623
>
> I had a single player trapsin who used wake of inferno and it was a big
> disappointment. Most monster move too fast so it can't hit them
> effectively. I gave up on that plan very soon.
>
Yup, I hate that trap.

> > Then you could use WoF against the packs of not so tough monsters, and
WoF
> > for the Bosses and such. Heck, that might even work a bit into NM, but
> > probably not for very long.
>
> Yesterday evening, after killing Baal, I took a short snoop into
> nightmare and it went surprisingly well. Mosters are hard enough to be
> interesting, and easy enough to be fun to kill.
>
And that's how you want it to be!

> But it was day of bad luck for my co-players. A palading joined my game,
> I sent him a town portal, he came in and died the next second due to a
> fireball from one of those shamens. I guess he wasn't at full health,
> but it must be a frustrating start if you come to help a lower level
> character and start with dying.
>
Yeah, but most people don't get too upset about it, unless it is in harcore.

> >>Since level 30 I spent all points on shadow master, currently at level
> >>8. My style of play seems to need a strong tank, and the shadow master
> >>is prefect for that.
> >
> > Yup, the ShadowMaster is probably the best Minion you can have, as far
as
> > versatility goes.
>
> I sometimes wonder if party members can tell her from me :) 
>
> > You could put a point into Blade Fury too, its fun to throw around to
help
> > with the traps.
>
> I'm a bit slow with the keyboard, so I tried to build a character who
> uses few skills only and I can lazily use left-click and right-click :) 
>
> I think it was a necro that I once had who really made me work the
> keyboard in tight battles. I retired him in favour of an easier character
:) 
>
> Still my next try will be a golemancer. I hope for a lazy life with that
> one, too :) 
>
I don't know how easy a Golemancer will be, but a Skellimancer is the route
to go if you don't like keyboard acrobatics.
Once I raise my army, I only have 3-4 hotkeys that get used.


short
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 6:39:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote::

> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to build a trapsin (my first one), and I'v got a question
> concerning the skill distribution.
>
> Skills in question:
>
> - wake of fire
> - lightning sentry
> - death senty

Probably this won't become the most powerful trapper - given the
skillpoint distribution that I already had, this one seems the most
sensible combination:

- use wake of fire and death sentry as primary and secondary skills
- put point int fire blast because of the synergies

Wake of fire maxes out at a lesser total damage than lightning sentry,
but I had too many points in it already and I have some hope that the
punch is big enough for a good part of the game. Never seen hell
difficulty so I can't say how it'll be there. Wake of fire shoots faster
and has more area coverage and needs less mana than lightning sentry,
maybe that makes up a bit for the lower damage.

Death sentry is powerful as soon as there are corpses becuase it has CE
effect also. Also helps to get rid of bodies that could be revived by
shamen and such.

Having the choice between lightning and fire should help with monsters
immune against one of those elements.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 6:39:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

"Hansjoerg Malthaner" <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote in message
news:39dorjF5vli9kU1@individual.net...
> Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote::
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm trying to build a trapsin (my first one), and I'v got a question
> > concerning the skill distribution.
> >
> > Skills in question:
> >
> > - wake of fire
> > - lightning sentry
> > - death senty
>
> Probably this won't become the most powerful trapper - given the
> skillpoint distribution that I already had, this one seems the most
> sensible combination:
>
Probably so :) 

> - use wake of fire and death sentry as primary and secondary skills
> - put point int fire blast because of the synergies
>
As you progress farther you'll probably end up using Death Sentry as
Primary, and Wake of Fire to distract the monsters until they get blown up.

> Wake of fire maxes out at a lesser total damage than lightning sentry,
> but I had too many points in it already and I have some hope that the
> punch is big enough for a good part of the game. Never seen hell
> difficulty so I can't say how it'll be there. Wake of fire shoots faster
> and has more area coverage and needs less mana than lightning sentry,
> maybe that makes up a bit for the lower damage.
>
You get style points for using it anyway :) 

> Death sentry is powerful as soon as there are corpses becuase it has CE
> effect also. Also helps to get rid of bodies that could be revived by
> shamen and such.
>
> Having the choice between lightning and fire should help with monsters
> immune against one of those elements.
>
>
That's the plan!


short - Death Sentry is Teh Besto
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 7:08:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

short wrote::

> "Hansjoerg Malthaner" <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:

>>Wake of fire maxes out at a lesser total damage than lightning sentry,
>>but I had too many points in it already and I have some hope that the
>>punch is big enough for a good part of the game. Never seen hell
>>difficulty so I can't say how it'll be there. Wake of fire shoots faster
>>and has more area coverage and needs less mana than lightning sentry,
>>maybe that makes up a bit for the lower damage.
>
> You get style points for using it anyway :) 

:) 

This leads me to another point: I've seen only very few other assassins
so far. Are they unpopular in general? On europe particularly? Or did I
just join the wrong games :) 

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 7:26:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <39dqjiF61asgkU1@individual.net>,
Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>short wrote::
>
>> "Hansjoerg Malthaner" <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>>Wake of fire maxes out at a lesser total damage than lightning sentry,
>>>but I had too many points in it already and I have some hope that the
>>>punch is big enough for a good part of the game. Never seen hell
>>>difficulty so I can't say how it'll be there. Wake of fire shoots faster
>>>and has more area coverage and needs less mana than lightning sentry,
>>>maybe that makes up a bit for the lower damage.
>>
>> You get style points for using it anyway :) 
>
>:) 

;)  Let us know how your trapassin fares. I'm especially interested in her
performance in late NM/Hell. I built a 'standard' lightning trapassin, as
detailed in replies to your previous question, and finished off Hell Baal
without encountering many problem. I did hit a bit of a deadlock in Act 1
Hell, because I ran into a lot of lightning immunes there, but that was
fixed by returning to NM, getting a bunch of levels in Baal runes, and
pumping Fire Blast with those points.

Anyhow, it's a fun build, and I'm curious if the fire traps are really
that weak. After I finished Hell with her, I didn't actually play a lot
with the trapassin, mostly because she has very little MF, and I see
little possibilities in adding MF while maintaining her kill-rate.

I do keep an eye out on gear to improve her when I'm MFing with my main MF
char (skelliemancer) but haven't run into any +3 traps/+individual
lightning trap skills claws, or a real good amulet (+3 traps/nice second
mod magic, or a very good rare +2 assasin/nice other mods).

I also reroll grand charms, but have scored no trap skillers yet.

If anyone reading this thread has any suggestions, gear wise, on how to
turn a trapassin into an MF powerhouse, I'd be most interested! :) 

>This leads me to another point: I've seen only very few other assassins
>so far. Are they unpopular in general? On europe particularly? Or did I
>just join the wrong games :) 

Most assassin builds, excluding maybe the lightning trapassin, are quite
difficult to play. On top of that, most of the builds needs some quite
specific gear to survive, so getting a lot of MF is rather difficult.

And it's indeed boring what a bland collection of characters one
encounters in public games: more than 50% are sorcs, and 25% hammerdins,
and the rest is divided between melee pally/barb/necro/druid.

At least, that's my impression.

Regards,

Patrick.
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 1:57:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> In article <39du27F600d3nU1@individual.net>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>>
>>>;) Let us know how your trapassin fares.
>>
>>I'll keep you updated.

A sudden onslaught of real life stopped my progress in game. I spent
saturday on getting to NM/Act 5, but since then I haven't played.

I got there with help of a friend, and was part of a 8 player party to
kill Diablo. So I have no serious idea if I could solo there, or if my
character is too weak. I have met a few champion monsters that I
apparently could not kill, so I assume I can't solo Act 5/NM, unless I
spend some more points on the traps. I have ten spare skill points, and
40 attribute points, so I can power up a bit.

Currently my trapsin is at clvl 50, which seems a bit 'young' for the
area of the game that I have reached.

Next week I'll be on vacation. I hope to pick up the game again, and
advance my trapsin into hell difficulty level.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 3:01:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <39npsdF620ieeU1@individual.net>,
Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>A sudden onslaught of real life stopped my progress in game. I spent
>saturday on getting to NM/Act 5, but since then I haven't played.
>
>I got there with help of a friend, and was part of a 8 player party to
>kill Diablo. So I have no serious idea if I could solo there, or if my
>character is too weak. I have met a few champion monsters that I
>apparently could not kill, so I assume I can't solo Act 5/NM, unless I
>spend some more points on the traps. I have ten spare skill points, and
>40 attribute points, so I can power up a bit.

Well, if you encounter a lightning immune, which is also unbreakable (I
have a wand with 'lower resists' charges for this in my stash), you're in
trouble indeed, especially if you have no strong secondary attack.

>Currently my trapsin is at clvl 50, which seems a bit 'young' for the
>area of the game that I have reached.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't really pay attention to that a lot. Only if I
run into problems, will I start evaluating my level and related skill
levels. It should be very easy to gain at least 10+ levels while still
staying in NM. And I suspect that once you are near the end of Act 5/NM,
you will have gained quite some levels.. :) 

>Next week I'll be on vacation. I hope to pick up the game again, and
>advance my trapsin into hell difficulty level.

Hope you enjoyed your vacation, and feel free to contact me on B.Net once
you're back, my offer (of course) still stands. See a previous post, or
ask me again, for contacting me.

Regards,

Patrick.
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 4:17:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> In article <39dqjiF61asgkU1@individual.net>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>short wrote::
>>
>>>"Hansjoerg Malthaner" <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>>
>>>>Wake of fire maxes out at a lesser total damage than lightning sentry,
>>>>but I had too many points in it already and I have some hope that the
>>>>punch is big enough for a good part of the game. Never seen hell
>>>>difficulty so I can't say how it'll be there. Wake of fire shoots faster
>>>>and has more area coverage and needs less mana than lightning sentry,
>>>>maybe that makes up a bit for the lower damage.
>>>
>>>You get style points for using it anyway :) 
>>
>>:) 
>
> ;)  Let us know how your trapassin fares. I'm especially interested in her
> performance in late NM/Hell. I built a 'standard' lightning trapassin, as
> detailed in replies to your previous question, and finished off Hell Baal
> without encountering many problem.

Sorry for the long break. I was away from Diablo a while, then tried
some other characters, and finally decided to try to continue my fire
trapsin to hell difficulty. She's level 65 now.

Well.

I can kill things. I can survive. BUT! It's not really killing, it's
more like grinding them down. I have WoF maxed now, and 6 points in fire
blast because of the synergies. This works, but it's slow.

This is the first time that I've entered hell difficulty. I must say,
the name "hell" is fully justified. It feels like hell. I see the other
players struggle as much as I do, so I think my character is ok. I was
told that equipmnent is a key to success, and surely my equipment isn't
as good as it could be. Almost no uniques, only a few rares and some
exceptional items.

I seriously need something with +skills, lately found an amulet with +1
traps, which helps a bit. Still looking for +skills claws. Gambled all
my money away, but no luck so far. Shopping was unsuccessful also so
far. But I guess better equipment is only a matter of time.

> I did hit a bit of a deadlock in Act 1
> Hell, because I ran into a lot of lightning immunes there, but that was
> fixed by returning to NM, getting a bunch of levels in Baal runes, and
> pumping Fire Blast with those points.

Same here, but the other way round. Quite some of the beasties are fire
immune, and I have to upgrade the lightning traps.

> Anyhow, it's a fun build, and I'm curious if the fire traps are really
> that weak. After I finished Hell with her, I didn't actually play a lot
> with the trapassin, mostly because she has very little MF, and I see
> little possibilities in adding MF while maintaining her kill-rate.

I lack all comparison, becuase I'm the first time in hell. My idea of
powerful traps is something else, but it's hard to say if pure lightning
would work better. I have 14 points in shadow master, which helps a lot
to keep monsters away from we and busy, so that I have time to toast
them slowly.

> I do keep an eye out on gear to improve her when I'm MFing with my main MF
> char (skelliemancer) but haven't run into any +3 traps/+individual
> lightning trap skills claws, or a real good amulet (+3 traps/nice second
> mod magic, or a very good rare +2 assasin/nice other mods).

Same problem here, but my character still has a long way to go, so I
hope for better luck later in the game.

> I also reroll grand charms, but have scored no trap skillers yet.

I didn't try that yet.

> Most assassin builds, excluding maybe the lightning trapassin, are quite
> difficult to play. On top of that, most of the builds needs some quite
> specific gear to survive, so getting a lot of MF is rather difficult.

The only problem I see is that I can't kill things really fast. Not even
in the lower difficulty levels. But only sorcerresses are faster killers
in the lower levels, and they have troubles in the higher difficulty
levels as well.

It seems to even out.

From my point of view, my fire trapper is one of the easier characters
to play. The shadow master is a good tank, the traps can be used
strategically and I can survive some hits if something should get close
for some reason. I definitely have a lack in melee power and need to run
if I'm getting rushed by a group of monsters.

> And it's indeed boring what a bland collection of characters one
> encounters in public games: more than 50% are sorcs, and 25% hammerdins,
> and the rest is divided between melee pally/barb/necro/druid.

I feel sorry to have added two more to the legion of sorceresses. My
cold/lightning sorceress has retired mostly, sometimes rushing a few
people through normal, although my fire/lightning sorc takes over more
and more of that as she grows up.

I like my fire/lightning sorceress very much. It's not a powerful build
all alone, but works very well in parties with meleers or even cold
sorceresses. I can't freeze monsters, so I need help to pin them, but
it's just so much fun to see them burn. Fire trapper. Fire sorc. Once I
had a fire druid. Maybe I'm a pyromaniac :) 

> Regards,
>
> Patrick.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 6:52:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d3dise$16h$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>
>> ;)  Let us know how your trapassin fares. I'm especially interested in her
>> performance in late NM/Hell. I built a 'standard' lightning trapassin, as
>> detailed in replies to your previous question, and finished off Hell Baal
>> without encountering many problem.
>
>Sorry for the long break. I was away from Diablo a while, then tried
>some other characters, and finally decided to try to continue my fire
>trapsin to hell difficulty. She's level 65 now.

No problem, I'm glad you took the time and effort to respond after this
long time, and I read your report with interest!

>Well.
>
>I can kill things. I can survive. BUT! It's not really killing, it's
>more like grinding them down. I have WoF maxed now, and 6 points in fire
>blast because of the synergies. This works, but it's slow.

That's indeed the nice thing about Fire Blast: it's a nice skill on it's
own, it receives synergies from (almost?) all of the traps, and also
synergizes the traps in turn, sometimes quite useful.

>This is the first time that I've entered hell difficulty. I must say,
>the name "hell" is fully justified. It feels like hell. I see the other
>players struggle as much as I do, so I think my character is ok. I was
>told that equipmnent is a key to success, and surely my equipment isn't
>as good as it could be. Almost no uniques, only a few rares and some
>exceptional items.

Hell is quite an effort, I agree. But it's not that bad, I notice, once
you get into it. You do have to 'readjust' after entering it, but once you
know what the 'problems' are, I notice you learn how to deal with 'em.

>I seriously need something with +skills, lately found an amulet with +1
>traps, which helps a bit. Still looking for +skills claws. Gambled all
>my money away, but no luck so far. Shopping was unsuccessful also so
>far. But I guess better equipment is only a matter of time.

Well, I think I understood you are playing on SC Europe Ladder, so if you
feel OK with accepting (or borrowing, it's your choice) some gear from me,
I might have something for you. Nothing really 'ueber', but I have 1 spare
+3 traps claw, and at least several +3 traps amulets. Don't expect
anything godly though. ;) 

If you're in NM, shop NM Anya, for the biggest chance to get a +3 traps
claw.

>> I did hit a bit of a deadlock in Act 1
>> Hell, because I ran into a lot of lightning immunes there, but that was
>> fixed by returning to NM, getting a bunch of levels in Baal runes, and
>> pumping Fire Blast with those points.
>
>Same here, but the other way round. Quite some of the beasties are fire
>immune, and I have to upgrade the lightning traps.

Yeah, you run into Fire Immunes a lot and earlier.

Also, it's quite possible Death Sentry can be used by you as a sort of
1-point wonder: never underestimate the power of CE! It's your best bet
for finishing off large groups.

>> Anyhow, it's a fun build, and I'm curious if the fire traps are really
>> that weak. After I finished Hell with her, I didn't actually play a lot
>> with the trapassin, mostly because she has very little MF, and I see
>> little possibilities in adding MF while maintaining her kill-rate.
>
>I lack all comparison, becuase I'm the first time in hell. My idea of
>powerful traps is something else, but it's hard to say if pure lightning
>would work better. I have 14 points in shadow master, which helps a lot
>to keep monsters away from we and busy, so that I have time to toast
>them slowly.

Well, if you're interested, we could also meet up in a Hell game with both
of our trappers, so we can compare trap killing speed.

On another note: looking back, I should maybe re-adjust my evaluation of
her usefullness a bit. While high MF is usually very much wanted, high MF
also lowers your chances of finding plain socketed items.

Remembering my trapsin, I know she was quite capable of killing large
groups very quickly, so if she does that with (close to) zero MF, I might
have a large chance to find a nice socketed elite armor/weapon...

Anyhow, my offer stands. Compare trapassin, and if you like, some gear
'for loan', of keepers. :) 

>Same problem here, but my character still has a long way to go, so I
>hope for better luck later in the game.

I can also understand if you only want to use self-found stuff though. :) 

>> I also reroll grand charms, but have scored no trap skillers yet.
>
>I didn't try that yet.

I still do, and plenty of skillers, but no trap skillers. :( 

>The only problem I see is that I can't kill things really fast. Not even
>in the lower difficulty levels. But only sorcerresses are faster killers
>in the lower levels, and they have troubles in the higher difficulty
>levels as well.

Well, I know for sure a summoning necromancer is a quick killer, even in
the latter parts of Hell. :) 

>It seems to even out.
>
>From my point of view, my fire trapper is one of the easier characters
>to play. The shadow master is a good tank, the traps can be used
>strategically and I can survive some hits if something should get close
>for some reason. I definitely have a lack in melee power and need to run
>if I'm getting rushed by a group of monsters.

Well, don't forget the usefullness of Mind Blast of course! And Cloak of
Shadows is also a 1-point wonder to quiet down those ranged attackers...

>I feel sorry to have added two more to the legion of sorceresses. My
>cold/lightning sorceress has retired mostly, sometimes rushing a few
>people through normal, although my fire/lightning sorc takes over more
>and more of that as she grows up.
>
>I like my fire/lightning sorceress very much. It's not a powerful build
>all alone, but works very well in parties with meleers or even cold
>sorceresses. I can't freeze monsters, so I need help to pin them, but
>it's just so much fun to see them burn. Fire trapper. Fire sorc. Once I
>had a fire druid. Maybe I'm a pyromaniac :) 

I only have 1 sorc at the moment, a FO/CL sorceress, but she is now in a
bit of trouble before the Hell Ancients. It's going to be quite difficult
to get past these, without some external help. And I make it a sport to
solo the entire game with every char. But if this stays like this any
longer, I think I'll probably get her past them using my skelliemancer.

I might build another sorc, but am looking for another build which can
solo hell. Possibly a FO (FO remains a relatively cheap wonder spell to
get through NM with) + Fireball sorc, with static field as the Lightning
spell... But I'm still plenty busy with getting my IK Barb though Hell
(halfway Act 3 Hell now), and/or levelling my Stormlash-Zealot to be
(halfway Act3 Normal now).

Regards,

Patrick.
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 8:57:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> In article <d3dise$16h$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>>
>>
>>>;) Let us know how your trapassin fares.

[...]

>>Well.
>>
>>I can kill things. I can survive. BUT! It's not really killing, it's
>>more like grinding them down.

[...]

>>This is the first time that I've entered hell difficulty. I must say,
>>the name "hell" is fully justified. It feels like hell. I see the other
>>players struggle as much as I do, so I think my character is ok. I was
>>told that equipmnent is a key to success, and surely my equipment isn't
>>as good as it could be. Almost no uniques, only a few rares and some
>>exceptional items.
>
> Hell is quite an effort, I agree. But it's not that bad, I notice, once
> you get into it. You do have to 'readjust' after entering it, but once you
> know what the 'problems' are, I notice you learn how to deal with 'em.

Actually it's much more like the way I imagine a good game. I like the
slower pace and the harder fights. It feels more rewarding.

OTOH sometimes I go back to normal and kill Diablo just to reassure that
my character really can kill things. But last time I was not focused
enough, and had to use a healing potion or two.

I think normal Diablo must suffer now for what the lower beasties of the
higher difficulties do to me. OTOH this makes some players happy since I
kill Diablo just for fun and they get past him easily. So I consider it
a good thing.

>>I seriously need something with +skills, lately found an amulet with +1
>>traps, which helps a bit. Still looking for +skills claws. Gambled all
>>my money away, but no luck so far. Shopping was unsuccessful also so
>>far. But I guess better equipment is only a matter of time.
>
> Well, I think I understood you are playing on SC Europe Ladder, so if you
> feel OK with accepting (or borrowing, it's your choice) some gear from me,
> I might have something for you. Nothing really 'ueber', but I have 1 spare
> +3 traps claw, and at least several +3 traps amulets. Don't expect
> anything godly though. ;) 

I experienced two extremes.

Some players don't have an idea of sharing, and take whatever they can
get as quickly as they can.

Other players are very generous. I got so many gifts that sometimes I
didn't know what to do with all of them. I have been given things that I
consider godly, but for my sorceress mostly.

I'm a bit torn between "I want it" and "I got so much, please no more
gifts". So if it makes you happy and you don't need the things, I'll
gladly take them. But I wouldn't mind if you keep them for you own use.

> If you're in NM, shop NM Anya, for the biggest chance to get a +3 traps
> claw.

Ok, thank you for the hint!

> Also, it's quite possible Death Sentry can be used by you as a sort of
> 1-point wonder: never underestimate the power of CE! It's your best bet
> for finishing off large groups.

Death sentry is my secondary trap. I think I have 7 or 8 points in it.
The corpse explosion is good, particularly if there are shamans around
who revive their dead minions all over.

OTOH if the are necromancers in the party who need the corpses, I can't
use death sentry so much.

>>>Anyhow, it's a fun build, and I'm curious if the fire traps are really
>>>that weak. After I finished Hell with her, I didn't actually play a lot
>>>with the trapassin, mostly because she has very little MF, and I see
>>>little possibilities in adding MF while maintaining her kill-rate.
>>
>>I lack all comparison, becuase I'm the first time in hell. My idea of
>>powerful traps is something else, but it's hard to say if pure lightning
>>would work better. I have 14 points in shadow master, which helps a lot
>>to keep monsters away from we and busy, so that I have time to toast
>>them slowly.
>
> Well, if you're interested, we could also meet up in a Hell game with both
> of our trappers, so we can compare trap killing speed.

Ok :) 

Don't be disapointed if you win easily. I've learned that there are lots
of players who have vastly better skills than me - regardless of their
characters, they just play better.

A friend that I've rushed once said "&%"%, it is hard here if you are so
low level!". Well, actually I was wondering how well he did. I surely
had died all over with his character in that situation, but he kept going.

So there is definitely a quality of players beyond equipment and
character attributes.

> On another note: looking back, I should maybe re-adjust my evaluation of
> her usefullness a bit. While high MF is usually very much wanted, high MF
> also lowers your chances of finding plain socketed items.

That's true. It depends on what you want :) 

I can tell that one day I really was frustraded because of waiting for a
plain plate belt (to be imbued), and all that dropped or sold were magic.

> Remembering my trapsin, I know she was quite capable of killing large
> groups very quickly, so if she does that with (close to) zero MF, I might
> have a large chance to find a nice socketed elite armor/weapon...

:) 

> Anyhow, my offer stands. Compare trapassin, and if you like, some gear
> 'for loan', of keepers. :) 

I'll send an email. I'm interested in the comparison, too.

>>Same problem here, but my character still has a long way to go, so I
>>hope for better luck later in the game.
>
> I can also understand if you only want to use self-found stuff though. :) 

When I met some of the more greedy players I formed the idea to 'survive
on less'. Let them take what they want and get along with what's left.
It's way more relaxed this way. It's a game, I play for fun, and it
doesn't hurt if I'm a bit behind.

In one game there even was a fight between players, because one player
took something and another one wanted it too ...

My decision lead to the strange situation, that, if someone asks me to
show my equipment and I do, usually they feel pity and give me things
for free. I guess I got better stuff this way than whatever could've
dropped in the games that I played.

This world is funny sometimes :) 
Getting more by taking less.

>>The only problem I see is that I can't kill things really fast. Not even
>>in the lower difficulty levels. But only sorcerresses are faster killers
>>in the lower levels, and they have troubles in the higher difficulty
>>levels as well.
>
> Well, I know for sure a summoning necromancer is a quick killer, even in
> the latter parts of Hell. :) 

I have no experience there, but I assume at some point things turn.

Characters that do well in lower levels suddenly experience problems,
while long-term strategic builds develop their full power at higher
levels only.

>>It seems to even out.
>
>>From my point of view, my fire trapper is one of the easier characters
>>to play. The shadow master is a good tank, the traps can be used
>>strategically and I can survive some hits if something should get close
>>for some reason. I definitely have a lack in melee power and need to run
>>if I'm getting rushed by a group of monsters.
>
> Well, don't forget the usefullness of Mind Blast of course! And Cloak of
> Shadows is also a 1-point wonder to quiet down those ranged attackers...

I learned that from my shadow :) 

I'm too lazy (too bad?) with the keyboard, so if I have to use a lot of
keys, I get nowhere.

>>I like my fire/lightning sorceress very much. It's not a powerful build
>>all alone, but works very well in parties with meleers or even cold
>>sorceresses. I can't freeze monsters, so I need help to pin them, but
>>it's just so much fun to see them burn. Fire trapper. Fire sorc. Once I
>>had a fire druid. Maybe I'm a pyromaniac :) 
>
> I only have 1 sorc at the moment, a FO/CL sorceress, but she is now in a
> bit of trouble before the Hell Ancients. It's going to be quite difficult
> to get past these, without some external help. And I make it a sport to
> solo the entire game with every char. But if this stays like this any
> longer, I think I'll probably get her past them using my skelliemancer.

First I was impressed by frozen orb, that's why my first sorceress uses
it too. I retired her, because everyone uses FO, and it's probably one
of the easiest spells to use efficiently.

My second try is charged bolt/firewall build with firewall being the
primary attack and charged bolt as backup.

She has troubles to play solo. I know this from the moments when my
party members leave and all of a sudden I really have to fight for my
life, left without any support.

I like to play in teams. Unfortunately it's hard to find other players
who think alike, often parties are groups of individual fighters, not so
much teams.

Sometimes I'm lucky and I find someone. Then the games are really good.

So I wouldn't mind if I can't do the ancients all alone and look for
help. I do the same for others, if they need help. (I think I did the
ancients three times yesterday and Diablo at least three times also. But
I can say I hate it if players just leave the game without any further
comment when they asked for help first and I do the kills for them!)

> I might build another sorc, but am looking for another build which can
> solo hell. Possibly a FO (FO remains a relatively cheap wonder spell to
> get through NM with) + Fireball sorc, with static field as the Lightning
> spell... But I'm still plenty busy with getting my IK Barb though Hell
> (halfway Act 3 Hell now), and/or levelling my Stormlash-Zealot to be
> (halfway Act3 Normal now).

I always forget about static field. And I forget that sorceresses can
teleport. Too many keys, to many decisions :) 

> Regards,
>
> Patrick.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
April 12, 2005 10:04:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d3gi16$69v$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

[snip]


> From that point, I just let the session develop, usually I play two or
>three different characters one after the other during one session.

Nice. I usually concentrate on one character, and only switch when the
character's stash is full with stuff. :) 

>Very rarely I have plans on what to do, usually only if I changed the
>difficulty level and face a quest boss who needs to be killed. But
>except for Baal there are usually many games of players with the same
>goal so it's fairly easy to get that problem solved :) 

Also, I usually play a character to quest/level up, in other words, get
'forward' in the game. Maybe I should look for games like you describe,
but due to the generic low IQ of B.Net players, my experiences with public
games has been not to good. It's probably even worse than Trade Games,
because that's where you expect people to appear who have a modest idea of
what communication is...

>The fire traps have two benefits: the waves are fired in a fast sequence
>and have good area coverage. I once tried to calculate damage per time
>and I think the fire traps are comparable to the lightning traps in that
>aspect.

What does the Character screen say about the damage it deals?

>Lightning traps are better against bosses, I think, because they hit
>single target better. I don't have much experience with that yet, so
>maybe I'm wrong here.

I really don't know. I just started a Lightning Trapsin because people
said the lightning traps dealt most of the damage. When we meet again, we
could exchange some damage numbers to see how the traps work out,
according to the game in any case. :) 

>> Like I said in-game, I'm quite a packrat, and the IK Barb still has quite
>> a lot of charms in his inventory.
>
>My bowazon also carries a lot of charms. It's hard to find a good
>balance between free space and support charms.

Yeah, I notice every char I have ends up with about 3 x 4 free spaces of
inventory space. Now that I think about it more, several of my barb's
slots are taken up by Barb Skillers I couldn't get rid of. At least 1 or 2
warcries skillers, and 1 or 2 combat skillers. Difficult to get rid of
these... :) 

>I noticed that, and tried to see if I find some jewels that I won't use,
>to give them to you. But I found only one in my stash. I had also sold
>off all the lower rings previously, so I couldn't give you anything.

Well, if you sell any jewels and rings you find, feel free to give them to
me, I'll even give you some gold for 'em. ;) 

>If you play in open games with a bigger parties, you loose them just too
>often this way. Until your are back they are elsewhere already and you
>find yourself just trying to catch up. In that case you can just run
>with them or look for another game.

Yes, one of the reasons I don't play together much: I like to play the
game in my own 'pace', which also allows me to visit town as much as I
want/like to. :) 

>The Jade Talon that I had stashed and that I now can use since my
>character leveled a bit helped a lot with the resists.

Yes, it's a nice claw for a Martial Arts assassin who is short on resists,
but it's not really a claw for a trapper. :) 

>It was also a gift, a very surpising one. The party just came back from
>a nightmare baal run when a sorceress approached me and told me she has
>something for me. She gave me the Jade Talon and before I realized what
>I just got, she was gone.

What you see a lot are +3 traps/+skills traps, with 1 or 2 sockets
(Larzuk), filled with +res jewels with a nice secondary mod. Also, keep in
mind trap-laying-speed is determined by IAS, not FCR, so you'd also like a
nice IAS jewel in those claws.

>> Did you get your merc levelled up a bit, can he use the Hone Sundan?
>
>After our session, and a short break, I only played half an hour more,
>and I played my fire sorceress. But I was too tired and I rather
>should've gone to bed earlier.
>
>The merc could use the Hone Sundan right away, yet the Bonehew will take
>a while. I'll probably try to level him later the day. Weekdays are
>workdays for me, I can post some messages to newsgroups in between, but
>playing is only for the evenings. And today I'll probal just play an
>hour or two, I need to catch some sleep :) 

Well, don't forget to put an Amn in that Hone Sundan as soon as possible,
because the leech is what keeps the merc alive. Stick in the second Amn
and the Shael when/if you find 'em... (or feel free to experiment with
other stuff to put in the sockets. ;) 

>> She's still level 1, 0 exp. So much to do, so little time.
>
>No worries. Just take care that the character who keeps the titans does
>not expire before you can try them :) 

Don't worry, I will! :) 

>> And if you're really, really lucky, I suppose it's even possible you
>> gamble a +3 traps/+individual trap skills claw.
>
>I'll try that every once in a while. I'm not sure if my character his
>high enough level to have unlocked the +3 skills modifier, though.

Just keep trying, as you level up, your chances will improve...

>> So when that Bonehew dropped, I thought: you can use that, especially
>> since you seem to have underused the Act 2 Merc, a lot. And a Bonhew is
>> very nice weapon for one.
>
>I must admit I never used act 2 mercs before. I did once in D2, before
>LOD was out, and the guy died after a few minutes.
>
>Since LOD and reviveable mercs the situation changed, but I didn't try
>them again.
>
>With your equipment and suggestions, I'll now give them another chance :) 

They are wonderful tanks, with a very useful aura, the choice of which
depends on the character you're playing. So try to level up your Fire
Trapper's merc, and you'll see she now has a second powerful tank, which
will shield her off while she tosses the traps. Very useful!

>> You have a point, but if I do it myself, with a massively overpowered
>> character, it still feels like cheating. But if/when I can play some more
>> together with known/trusted people, I'd like to try that too...
>
>If I'm online, just give me a call. I can't help in hell, but all normal
> quests and a good part of nightmare should be doable.
>
>In a few weeks, I might be able to help in hell as well :) 

Well, feel free to further play the trapper, though I'm afraid my IK Barb
will push on to the end of hell pretty soon.

Maybe I can overtake the trapper with my Fanatic Zealot, so we can do some
levelling/questing together.

Regards,

Patrick.
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 6:15:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> In article <d3gi16$69v$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>
> [snip]
>
>>From that point, I just let the session develop, usually I play two or
>>three different characters one after the other during one session.
>
> Nice. I usually concentrate on one character, and only switch when the
> character's stash is full with stuff. :) 

Probably it's better to stick with the same character. I think I'm just
trying to do everything at the same time, yet doing nothing properly.

OTOH the gamemis meant to be fun, and as long as that's the case it's ok :) 

>>Very rarely I have plans on what to do, usually only if I changed the
>>difficulty level and face a quest boss who needs to be killed. But
>>except for Baal there are usually many games of players with the same
>>goal so it's fairly easy to get that problem solved :) 
>
> Also, I usually play a character to quest/level up, in other words, get
> 'forward' in the game. Maybe I should look for games like you describe,
> but due to the generic low IQ of B.Net players, my experiences with public
> games has been not to good.

Yesterday I had bad luck. I wanted to go for Diablo in nightmare and
joined a game that seemed appropriate. But the people were going for the
hellforge quests, and just when I arrived at the river of flames, they
completed the quest. I didn't even see a gem or rune :( 

So I definitely spoiled this quest and the reward by my playing style.

> It's probably even worse than Trade Games,
> because that's where you expect people to appear who have a
> modest idea of what communication is...




>>The fire traps have two benefits: the waves are fired in a fast sequence
>>and have good area coverage. I once tried to calculate damage per time
>>and I think the fire traps are comparable to the lightning traps in that
>>aspect.
>
> What does the Character screen say about the damage it deals?

I don't remember the numbers. I'm in the office right now, so I can't
take a look.

>>Lightning traps are better against bosses, I think, because they hit
>>single target better. I don't have much experience with that yet, so
>>maybe I'm wrong here.
>
> I really don't know. I just started a Lightning Trapsin because people
> said the lightning traps dealt most of the damage.

Damage comparisions are difficult. Poison kills slowly, cold damage
freezes the target. Some attacks/spells have area effects, other are
rather punctual.

Somehow you'd have to factor in damage per time per area + bonus
effects, and even then you will have different results if you attack a
group of monsters (area) or a level boss (single target).

The WoI has higher damage numbers than WoF, but shoots slower, dameg is
dealt over time and it covers less area. It's shoots more often per
cast, so it saves mana.

From the figures it's almost impossible to tell which is better in the
game. I tried both with a former trapper, and decided that WoF is better
for me. But I still don't know what to say if someone asks me why I
don't use WoI when it's "so much better".

A drawback might be the high mana consumption that I have. WoF isn't
very efficient in damage per mana. So I have to spend attribute points
on energy, while other players can spend them on life, dex or str.

If all this should be considered, I'm really out of wits to say which
will be the "strongest" trapper.

> When we meet again, we
> could exchange some damage numbers to see how the traps work out,
> according to the game in any case. :) 

Playing and trying seems to be the only way to get an impression of what
works and what not.

OTOH if it turns out not to work in later stages of the game, you have
your character screwed already, and probably can't repair it.

>>>Like I said in-game, I'm quite a packrat, and the IK Barb still has quite
>>>a lot of charms in his inventory.
>>
>>My bowazon also carries a lot of charms. It's hard to find a good
>>balance between free space and support charms.
>
> Yeah, I notice every char I have ends up with about 3 x 4 free spaces of
> inventory space. Now that I think about it more, several of my barb's
> slots are taken up by Barb Skillers I couldn't get rid of. At least 1 or 2
> warcries skillers, and 1 or 2 combat skillers. Difficult to get rid of
> these... :) 

3x4 is big enough to carry a few items that you have picked up. You need
to travel to town often this way, but you are stronger in fights. Most
likely you found the best balance for your playing style.

I often live with a little less of free space, so you're not the only
packarat in this game :) 

I think right now only one of my chars has 3x4 free space, although I
tried to 'clean up' seriously :) 

I need a few mules, I guess.

>>I noticed that, and tried to see if I find some jewels that I won't use,
>>to give them to you. But I found only one in my stash. I had also sold
>>off all the lower rings previously, so I couldn't give you anything.
>
> Well, if you sell any jewels and rings you find, feel free to give them to
> me, I'll even give you some gold for 'em. ;) 

The biggest problem is keeping them until we meet. I can't mule as
easily as you can, I only own one copy of D2, and so I have to drop
everything, leave the game, change the char and join again. If I get a
realm down the items are lost, and sometimes games just vanish, and the
items are gone also.

Nothing serious was lost so far, but I wouldn't try to mule my more
valuable items this way.

>>If you play in open games with a bigger parties, you loose them just too
>>often this way. Until your are back they are elsewhere already and you
>>find yourself just trying to catch up. In that case you can just run
>>with them or look for another game.
>
> Yes, one of the reasons I don't play together much: I like to play the
> game in my own 'pace', which also allows me to visit town as much as I
> want/like to. :) 

Some of the less popular quests I do alone, but just because noone joins
the games. Usually I'm happy once I completed the quests and play
together with other people again.

Act 3 seems to consist only of Travical in the mind of most players. I
almost never saw someone questing for Lam Esens tome, although it gives
5 attribute points?

>>The Jade Talon that I had stashed and that I now can use since my
>>character leveled a bit helped a lot with the resists.
>
> Yes, it's a nice claw for a Martial Arts assassin who is short on resists,
> but it's not really a claw for a trapper. :) 

I'm pondering about starting a new assassin which focuses on melee. But
I have too many characters already, I should rather play them than
starting new ones all over :) 

> What you see a lot are +3 traps/+skills traps, with 1 or 2 sockets
> (Larzuk), filled with +res jewels with a nice secondary mod. Also, keep in
> mind trap-laying-speed is determined by IAS, not FCR, so you'd also like a
> nice IAS jewel in those claws.

I never noticed a delay in placing traps so far. Or do you mean the
delay between placing a trap and until it starts firing?

If this can be reduced, I'd very interested in learning how :) 

>>>Did you get your merc levelled up a bit, can he use the Hone Sundan?
>>
>>After our session, and a short break, I only played half an hour more,
>>and I played my fire sorceress. But I was too tired and I rather
>>should've gone to bed earlier.
>>
>>The merc could use the Hone Sundan right away, yet the Bonehew will take
>>a while. I'll probably try to level him later the day. Weekdays are
>>workdays for me, I can post some messages to newsgroups in between, but
>>playing is only for the evenings. And today I'll probal just play an
>>hour or two, I need to catch some sleep :) 
>
> Well, don't forget to put an Amn in that Hone Sundan as soon as possible,
> because the leech is what keeps the merc alive. Stick in the second Amn
> and the Shael when/if you find 'em... (or feel free to experiment with
> other stuff to put in the sockets. ;) 

Let me get some of those first. I once had an Amn IIRC. Currently I'm
completely out of any higher and even medium level runes.

I'll follow your advice as soon as I get hold of the runes.

>>>So when that Bonehew dropped, I thought: you can use that, especially
>>>since you seem to have underused the Act 2 Merc, a lot. And a Bonhew is
>>>very nice weapon for one.
>>
>>I must admit I never used act 2 mercs before. I did once in D2, before
>>LOD was out, and the guy died after a few minutes.
>>
>>Since LOD and reviveable mercs the situation changed, but I didn't try
>>them again.
>>
>>With your equipment and suggestions, I'll now give them another chance :) 
>
> They are wonderful tanks, with a very useful aura, the choice of which
> depends on the character you're playing. So try to level up your Fire
> Trapper's merc, and you'll see she now has a second powerful tank, which
> will shield her off while she tosses the traps. Very useful!

My fire sorceress now uses one, too, and they work together pretty well.
I found a shaftstopper unique armor, which boosts him to a total of 1.3k
defense. He's definitely the best armored merc that I ever had :) 

OTOH he keeps killing himself if iron maidened by oblivion knights.

>>>You have a point, but if I do it myself, with a massively overpowered
>>>character, it still feels like cheating. But if/when I can play some more
>>>together with known/trusted people, I'd like to try that too...
>>
>>If I'm online, just give me a call. I can't help in hell, but all normal
>> quests and a good part of nightmare should be doable.
>>
>>In a few weeks, I might be able to help in hell as well :) 
>
> Well, feel free to further play the trapper, though I'm afraid my IK Barb
> will push on to the end of hell pretty soon.

He's in a good shape. I have no doubt that he'll adventure well. I wish
him luck for his adventures :) 

Do you continue playing your characters after defeating hell baal, or do
you retire them and start new ones?

> Maybe I can overtake the trapper with my Fanatic Zealot, so we can do some
> levelling/questing together.

Maybe we meet somewhere midlevel, too. My fire sorc is currently lvl 48,
maybe she can join him for a while until he changes to hell.

> Regards,
>
> Patrick.

Reagrds,
Hajo
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 10:57:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d40hjl$kpm$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

[Mixing of traps]

>I'm currently practising this with nightmare baal runs. Just that I have
>to mix WoF and DS. I slowly understand why people say the fire traps are
>weak. They now really kick ass in normal and nightmare, but in hell they
>are still weak and my options to upgrade them further are very limited.
>
>My trapper is now level 72, I think levelling up to 80 is doable, and
>I'll put the remaining 8 skill points into FB, to get max synergies.
>
>Then I'll finally have to switch to hell and see how far I can get
>there. With help of a friend I've reached act 4, and we are about to go
>for Diablo, but preferred to boost our characters a bit before we try
>to kill him.
>
>Actually I'd like to spend some more skill points on shadow master and a
>few supportive skills like fade, but I'll wait with that until my main
>arsenal is maxed out. I have 9 skill points saved, so in total it should
> be doable to complete my build in the early lvl 80th.

Hmmm, yes, I can understand you're a bit in a tight spot. Also, there's
one disadvantage of the Fire Trap route I didn't consider yet, but you're
more or less one 'backup-skill' short compared to a lightning trapper. If
a Lightning trapper encounters a LI immune, she still has the synergized
Fire Bomb as a backup-skill, and trouble only starts when the monster in
questions is also FI.

A Fire Trapper on the other hand, only has fire, and apparantly the fire
traps indeed do relatively little damage.

Your best best is to get a strong Shadow Master (she's a wonderful tank,
and try to cast her at slvl 17 or more), a strong merc, and rely on DS to
pop the bodies...


>I did that with my second mule. But I slowly get a management problem, I
> have to much stuff stored overall.

Don't worry, you'll get more selective as to what you keep/throw away,
once you find more of that yellow/golden stuff. :) 

>> And if you ever need to mule something valuable you don't want to put on
>> the ground, just give me a yell, and I'll hold it for you, so you can swap
>> in the mule...
>
>:) 
>
>So far I had a lot of good luck, and didn't loose any items. But if you
>are there, I'll not hesitate to ask for help.

Yeah, feel free to do that!

>> And perhaps Fire Bomb is also influenced by IAS, or does this one depend
>> on FCR?
>
>I don't know, I use that skill very rarely, so I didn't research it as
>well as the others.

Me neither. Also, it's a backup skill, or to be mixed with other castings,
so I don't use it that much. But still, it deals impressive damage, when
synergized by a lot of the lightning traps.

>> Anyway, there's not much a trapper can do to increase the damage of her
>> traps, since stuff like lightning of fire facets will _NOT_ help increase
>> the damage the lightning/fire traps do.
>
>Yes, that's my main trouble currently, too. Having the primary skills
>maxed already and still 30% of the game in front of me seems to mean a
>hard time for my character.

:) 

>I'll try that, but I guess I rather start to avoid Andariel. Although I
>see that a lot of players seem to be keen to kill her all over. Having
>so much of the game in front of me, I rather play forward than running
>the bosses too often.

NM Andariel is a wanted act-boss, because of her supposedly largest chance
of all act bosses for dropping a Stone of Jordan...?

>> Same goes for Duriel, bring some Thawing potions with you there.
>
>For my sorc, there is only hell duriel left, and it's still a long path
>there. In party games with 4 or more players, Duriel is usually not a
>real threat, unless noone has a merc, valkyrie or shadow to keep him
>busy a while.
>
>But I hate to solo Duriel. I mean sooner or later I always get him, but
>compared to the other bosses he's the toghest, at least for normal
>difficulty.

I'll talk to you again after you've solo-encounter the Hell Ancients with
your sorc. :) 

But yes, Duriel's a tough cookie, but doable, especially if you have a
strong merc.

Regards,

Patrick.
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 2:27:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> In article <d40hjl$kpm$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>
> [Mixing of traps]

>>Actually I'd like to spend some more skill points on shadow master and a
>>few supportive skills like fade, but I'll wait with that until my main
>>arsenal is maxed out. I have 9 skill points saved, so in total it should
>> be doable to complete my build in the early lvl 80th.
>
> Hmmm, yes, I can understand you're a bit in a tight spot. Also, there's
> one disadvantage of the Fire Trap route I didn't consider yet, but you're
> more or less one 'backup-skill' short compared to a lightning trapper. If
> a Lightning trapper encounters a LI immune, she still has the synergized
> Fire Bomb as a backup-skill, and trouble only starts when the monster in
> questions is also FI.
>
> A Fire Trapper on the other hand, only has fire, and apparantly the fire
> traps indeed do relatively little damage.
>
> Your best best is to get a strong Shadow Master (she's a wonderful tank,
> and try to cast her at slvl 17 or more), a strong merc, and rely on DS to
> pop the bodies...

I hope I remember all the numbers correctly.

FB: 11 (16)
WoF: 20 (25)
DS: 18 (23)
SM: 14 (19)

The numbers in brackets are the totals with +skills from gear.
Then a few in claw mastery, weapon block, and burst of speed

I have 8 spare points currently. I still have hell izual to get 2 skill
points, and it seems dobale to level up to 80 in a reasonable time.

So I get a total of 15 additional point up to level 80, which should
allow to max FB and DS (11 points needed) and keep a few spare points or
maybe put them into shadow master. She's pretty tough already, and a
great help.

A friend gave me a metalgrid amu. A dream, I always wanted to have an
iron golem with a non-necro char, but first it requires clvl 81 and
second I don't know if the iron golem survives a switch of the amu (I
would like to change it to the +2 assassin skills amu for adventuring,
that I got from you).

>>I did that with my second mule. But I slowly get a management problem, I
>> have to much stuff stored overall.
>
> Don't worry, you'll get more selective as to what you keep/throw away,
> once you find more of that yellow/golden stuff. :) 

ATM my characters work like a waterfall chain - usefulls rings and
amuletets are handed to the lower level characters when the higher level
chars find new stuff. At the end of the chain there are the mules
collecting all the things that noone else wanted to have.

I've been starting to collect jewels, amulets and rings. You said you
cube them. I'll let you know once I have a sensible collection to hand
it over. Maybe you get something good out of them.

>>>And perhaps Fire Bomb is also influenced by IAS, or does this one depend
>>>on FCR?
>>
>>I don't know, I use that skill very rarely, so I didn't research it as
>>well as the others.
>
> Me neither. Also, it's a backup skill, or to be mixed with other castings,
> so I don't use it that much. But still, it deals impressive damage, when
> synergized by a lot of the lightning traps.

It's also synergized with the fire traps, and since I have WoF maxed
and DS almost maxed, FB is currently the trap that deals the most damage
in a single shot. I don't remeber exactly, but the upper bound was 400+
damage, much too my annoyance because I wanted to have WoF as my primary
skill, which is only 200+ at this point of the game, still shoots 5
times, so 1000+ damage per cast.

So far I didn't even have FB hotkeyed, because I only put points in it
to get the synergy bonuses for the other skills.

>>I'll try that, but I guess I rather start to avoid Andariel. Although I
>>see that a lot of players seem to be keen to kill her all over. Having
>>so much of the game in front of me, I rather play forward than running
>>the bosses too often.
>
> NM Andariel is a wanted act-boss, because of her supposedly largest chance
> of all act bosses for dropping a Stone of Jordan...?

Right, I forgot about that.


>>But I hate to solo Duriel. I mean sooner or later I always get him, but
>>compared to the other bosses he's the toghest, at least for normal
>>difficulty.
>
> I'll talk to you again after you've solo-encounter the Hell Ancients with
> your sorc. :) 

That's going to be interesting, indeed. I still have to do them with my
fire trapper, too.

Yesterday I tried to help a friend with the nightmare ancients, and it
was a tough fight. I ran out of healing potions and at some point solely
had to rely on the traps which did their work very slowly only.

> But yes, Duriel's a tough cookie, but doable, especially if you have a
> strong merc.

:) 

I now take much more care about levelling my mercs properly. Sometimes I
even think they are more powerful than my own characters.

Thanks a lot for pointing me at the mercs! I had underestimated their
usefulness drastically.

> Regards,
> Patrick.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 8:33:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> In article <d45ab7$6rv$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:

>>Is your young pally interested in a steelclash shield?
>
> If you see me on-line (probably later this evening, but I'm not sure yet),
> feel free to /w me., and I'll dig up the Bartuc's. I don't know
> steelclash, and don't have the easy means to access the Arreat Summit at
> the moment, but I'd like to take a peek at it. :) 

I'll write a full answer soon. Just want to give you specs of the shield
rather quick. It's a low level unique, but IMO a nice one for young
characters:

Defense: 50-58 (varies)(Base Defense: 16-18)
Required Level: 17
Required Strength: 47
Durability: 45-50 (varies)
Chance to Block: Pal: 63%, Ama/Asn/Bar: 58%, Dru/Nec/Sor: 53%
Paladin Smite Damage: 2 To 5
+60-100% Enhanced Defense (varies)
+20 Defense
25% Increased chance of blocking
20% Faster Block Rate
All Resistances +15
+1 To Paladin Skill Levels
+3 To Light Radius
Damage Reduced By 3

It's the only item that I currently have which is useful for a Paladin.
Of course It can't match the value of Bartucs, but maybe it helps your
Paladin at least a little bit.

(Silly me, your MFing Necromancer probably finds them all over the place
- but if you don't have one yet, you get mine).

> Regards,
> Patrick.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 9:02:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d45p7m$tbt$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:

>I'll write a full answer soon. Just want to give you specs of the shield
>rather quick. It's a low level unique, but IMO a nice one for young
>characters:
>
>Defense: 50-58 (varies)(Base Defense: 16-18)
>Required Level: 17
>Required Strength: 47
>Durability: 45-50 (varies)
>Chance to Block: Pal: 63%, Ama/Asn/Bar: 58%, Dru/Nec/Sor: 53%
>Paladin Smite Damage: 2 To 5
>+60-100% Enhanced Defense (varies)
>+20 Defense
>25% Increased chance of blocking
>20% Faster Block Rate
>All Resistances +15
>+1 To Paladin Skill Levels
>+3 To Light Radius
>Damage Reduced By 3
>
>It's the only item that I currently have which is useful for a Paladin.
>Of course It can't match the value of Bartucs, but maybe it helps your
>Paladin at least a little bit.
>
>(Silly me, your MFing Necromancer probably finds them all over the place
>- but if you don't have one yet, you get mine).

*haha*, don't worry, I don't think I have this, and it sounds useful. I
currently have a rare paladin shield in the stash of the paladin, which
looks a bit like this, but he needs a few more levels before he can use
that, and this looks like something he can use immediately.

I also need to find some more 'mid-game' gear to get him through NM. My
usual choice for this is the unique Gothic Shield, forgot the name, but to
equip that I need to be ~lvl41. As for end-game gear, I'll probably
plunder my Hammerdin for my one and only HoZ. :) 

Anyhow, I'll even give this back to you when I move on to something else,
and no worries about the value of this vs Bartuc's: I'd rather have you
(or anyone else) using it, instead of letting it rust on a mule...

Regards,

Patrick.
Anonymous
April 21, 2005 8:27:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> In article <d45p7m$tbt$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>

[Steelclash stats snipped]

>>It's the only item that I currently have which is useful for a Paladin.
>>Of course It can't match the value of Bartucs, but maybe it helps your
>>Paladin at least a little bit.
>>
>>(Silly me, your MFing Necromancer probably finds them all over the place
>>- but if you don't have one yet, you get mine).
>
> *haha*, don't worry, I don't think I have this, and it sounds useful. I
> currently have a rare paladin shield in the stash of the paladin, which
> looks a bit like this, but he needs a few more levels before he can use
> that, and this looks like something he can use immediately.

That's one thing I like among this shield, it has low requirements and
is useful a good while in the game. I hope your pally will be happy with
it :) 

> Anyhow, I'll even give this back to you when I move on to something else,

Thanks, but it's definitely nowhere near urgent. I just found a third
one, so I still have two of them. Some days the random number generator
seems to be a bit whacky.

> and no worries about the value of this vs Bartuc's: I'd rather have you
> (or anyone else) using it, instead of letting it rust on a mule...

I'll sacrifice a few kills with them for you!
Maybe your necromancer will be even stronger afterwards ;) 

> Regards,
> Patrick.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 1:28:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d48d86$mbr$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>
>> *haha*, don't worry, I don't think I have this, and it sounds useful. I
>> currently have a rare paladin shield in the stash of the paladin, which
>> looks a bit like this, but he needs a few more levels before he can use
>> that, and this looks like something he can use immediately.
>
>That's one thing I like among this shield, it has low requirements and
>is useful a good while in the game. I hope your pally will be happy with
>it :) 

And he certainly is. I did some questing with him, yesterday-evening, and
could equip the steelclash immediately, so I could ditch the regular pally
shield I was using. Also, comparing the stats of Steelclash with the rare
pally shield I had been saving up, Steelclash also bested that, so off to
Charsi that shield went.

I finished Act 3 Normal with the pally, with no big incidents. Only
problem is that my Act 2 merc is lagging back quite a bit, and while he
deals respectable damage, he has less chance of hitting things, and gets
killed rather easily. Since he will be swapped out for another one in Act
2 NM, I don't want to put too much time in levelling him, but this is
always a tricky decision to make: do I continue without the merc, or do I
spend some time levelling him up a bit....?

>> Anyhow, I'll even give this back to you when I move on to something else,
>
>Thanks, but it's definitely nowhere near urgent. I just found a third
>one, so I still have two of them. Some days the random number generator
>seems to be a bit whacky.

Well, I'll give you a yell once I equip something else. :) 

>> and no worries about the value of this vs Bartuc's: I'd rather have you
>> (or anyone else) using it, instead of letting it rust on a mule...
>
>I'll sacrifice a few kills with them for you!
>Maybe your necromancer will be even stronger afterwards ;) 

The necro doesn't need much help. :)  Yesterday-evening was also a rather
big muling-event; I moved a lot of stuff I found on various characters
around, including a load of pgems I traded. Rerolled a GC a few times, and
at the last reroll, just before the pgems ran out, rerolled a Barb
Warcries skiller with some secondary cold damage. Nice. Put it on the
barb, to see how the BO works out now, but will probably sell it, since
he's not a 'Singer'.

Also finally made my planned Fortitude armor, so I socketed the 5xx def
plain Archon Plate I'd been saving for this, and dumped the relevant runes
in. Got a not so good Fortitude, I think 1.0 life per level, and 26
all-res. Darn. Still a mighty nice armor, but not a thing the Zealot can
wear yet, so I put it on the necro's merc.

Now that made quite the difference: he now deals, with the Might aura
active, around 1200-6600 damage per hit. Whoa! He now one-hit kills most
Hell monsters. I might move this armour around a bit more, maybe see if I
can get the Barb out of his IK clothing, and see how he fares with a
unique setup...

Regards,

Patrick.
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 4:10:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> In article <d47ut8$uc5$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>
>
>>IMO she doesn't. Once a lvl 92 Paladin offered to be a testing target,
>>and she barely could hurt him. Now I guess that a lvl 92 Paladin is
>>harder to hit than most monsters, yet it changed my opinion about the
>>offensive power of a shadow warrior drastically.
>
> Shadow Warrior or Master?

Sorry, I meant to say shadow master. Slvl 14 when we made the test, so
not yet fully equipped.

>>Currently she has more hitpoints than my merc, and she uses fade and
>>blade shield often so I guess she has quite some defensive capabilities,
>>too.
>
> Yep, the Shadow Master is one busy little girl. :) 

I noticed that fade and burst of speed cancel each other. What a pity!


>>BTW, do you know if there is a compendium with all auras and curses
>>displayed? In 9 of 10 cases I can't figure out what the swirling below
>>and above me actually means.
>>
>>So far I didn't find something like that.
>
> I'm not sure, but it's possible the Arreat Summit gives a picture of the
> aura when describing the Paladin auras?

Yes, that's right. But some of the curses display I still could not map
to the description. It seems some of the monsters cast curses that are
not available to the player and therefore not pictured in the arreat
summit pages.

>>So far I made my decision against energy shield. I'm way too much afraid
>>of running out of mana and being void of all offensivce and defensive
>>powers at that moment.
>
> Exactly, and the reason I made the current sorc, and not an ES-based one.
> As with my necro, I believe a good offense is better than a good defense,
> and this works for about 95% of the game, except the Ancients and perhaps
> some of the other end-of-level bosses.

Sometimes I use to run in circles around the monsters, casting spells on
them, and trying to move on before they can target me. This does not
work well with the ancients, becuase they are three, but it still helps.

It feels less heroic but it works :) 


[Optimizing gear, set lock-ins]

>>So you probabyl should not only try to find replacement for single
>>items, but look at the totals and find different item set that optimize
>>the total effects.
>>
>>This is very hard, there are so many combinations to consider. And of
>>course you find items one-by-one so you will have a period of weakness
>>once you start replacing the old gear but not yet have all the new stuff.
>
> Well, it's not that bad with the trapper; a nice alternative for the
> Harlequin's Crest, if it's my target to reduce her MF, would be to get her
> a nice +2 assassin skills circlet type hat.

Do you know which character level is needed to gamble for +2 skills on a
circlet?

> This might not have the
> +life/+mana bonuses of Harlequin's Crest, but might add some resist all,
> base life/mana, etc.

If you are lucky, it will :) 

> I might even have something like this on a mule
> somewhere, but I'd have to dig through all of them. Again. Quite a boring
> activity. :) 

I know this problem just too well. Having themed mules can help, but
sorting stuff is even more boring than inspecting some mules.

How many mules do you have?

> As for the trapper, there are probably some more options to get her less
> MF, and more durability. She's a good example of the effort of mine to try
> to put as much MF on her as possible, before I realized I lessen my
> chance, doing that, of finding stuff I am rather short of now: plain
> (socketed) items for putting runewords in.

"I want it all - and I want it now" - Queen
As so often you need to make decisions. In this case you'll have to
build two chras, one with high MF and one without.

Or, just let me play. I have inbuild -100 MF, that might compensate for
some items ;) 

> The Tal Rasha sorc is just a test; I had big problems getting her resists
> to acceptable values, but I see plenty of MF sorcs running around who use
> part of the set. For instance the armor is always very wanted: plenty of
> resists, and a healthy amount of MF. Together with some other parts, it
> gives a nice bonus. And with an Occulus, some nagelrings, Harlequin's
> Crest, and some other stuff, I think I can boost the MF quite a bit more,
> while still remaining quite the offensive powerhouse.
>
> Perhaps I should try to make a second sorc, so I can experiment a bit,
> without overloading the current sorc with all the alternative gear, and
> also to put the gear I'm not using on. :) 

This also gives you the chance to try another build if you want, and
depending on your mood you can play the one or other.

I've retired my second sorceress, but a while I had two, too.

>>The sets are all lock-ins IMO. Once you have it completed, it's very
>>hard to change to something else. Yet if the set matches your
>>requirements, it's better than anything else for you.
>>
>>So far I prefer setless characters. In case of my sorc this is easy,
>>since I don't like the looks of tal rashas set anyways (Crazy me, to
>>include the looks in my choice of equipment :)  )
>
> I'm not too fond of the purple look either, but she sure got a lot more
> offensive 'punch' once I completed the set, as opposed to the partial set
> with Harlequin's Crest, Que-Hegan's armour, and the Wizardspike (for the
> resists). So plenty of 'tuning' to do there. ;) 

I often feel very uncertain how to rate the resists. Fighter types need
them, becuase they get hit by the enemies in any case.

Ranged characters can try to avoid attacks. So I think resistances are
less important for them. If you power up the offensive abilities you
might be more successful.

OTOH with low resists you'll have to run a lot. Standing still while
facing a group of mages or archers will be deadly.

I guess I'd change the wizardspike for a rare orb with some resists and
+skills, preferrably also faster cast rate (a combination that I
couldn't find yet).

> But good that you mention it, I'm currenly 'swimming' in Puls, so I'll
> probably try to trade one of those for an Occulus. It has resists, it has
> +3 skills, so it might make it possible to swap in some other, more
> MF-oriented gear...

It gives you teleportititis. I've got one as a gift. It's great, but
sometimes I feel like a ball in a flipper - it has 25% chance of
teleporting you somewhere on being hit, and in some occasions I just got
teleported into monster groups, be hit and teleported into the next group.

It's ok, it gets you out of danger quickly, but it's confusing since you
need a second to find out where you are after a random teleport.

OTOH the Occulus has so many benefits, I guess it's well worth the
inconvenience.

> Regards,
> Patrick.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 4:10:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <4f46e$4268e8e3$82a1d3bf$18904@news1.tudelft.nl>,
Patrick Vervoorn <patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:

> In article <d4aiim$50k$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
> >Patrick Vervoorn wrote::


<much snippage>


> >Yes, that's right. But some of the curses display I still could not map
> >to the description. It seems some of the monsters cast curses that are
> >not available to the player and therefore not pictured in the arreat
> >summit pages.
>
> I've never seen a curse or aura that is not available to characters. So
> which one do you mean? (Of course, a mod like 'Spectral Hit' is not
> something available on a character, but it's also not accompanied by a
> graphical swirl or cloud...)


Perhaps your referring to the Blood Mana Curse. (see
http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/monsters/act5-succubus...)

Red swirls above the hear of the curse-ee. You use your life instead of
mana to cast spells. Succubi & Baal toss this on you if your Mana pool >
Life. Very Nasty,

Blood Mana along with the Defense curse can not be cast by players AFAIK
in the standard, no-mod game.
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 8:37:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <larrygeyer-C4B7F5.10134622042005@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
Larry Geyer <larrygeyer@comcast.net> wrote:
>In article <4f46e$4268e8e3$82a1d3bf$18904@news1.tudelft.nl>,
> Patrick Vervoorn <patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:
>
><much snippage>

Good idea. :) 

>> >Yes, that's right. But some of the curses display I still could not map
>> >to the description. It seems some of the monsters cast curses that are
>> >not available to the player and therefore not pictured in the arreat
>> >summit pages.
>>
>> I've never seen a curse or aura that is not available to characters. So
>> which one do you mean? (Of course, a mod like 'Spectral Hit' is not
>> something available on a character, but it's also not accompanied by a
>> graphical swirl or cloud...)
>
>Perhaps your referring to the Blood Mana Curse. (see
>http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/monsters/act5-succubus...)
>
>Red swirls above the hear of the curse-ee. You use your life instead of
>mana to cast spells. Succubi & Baal toss this on you if your Mana pool >
>Life. Very Nasty,
>
>Blood Mana along with the Defense curse can not be cast by players AFAIK
>in the standard, no-mod game.

Ah, yes, you're right, this is indeed one I overlooked, and pretty nasry
at that. Also quite useless for a player, since monsters or minions, seem
to have no mana supply, so there's not much possible there.

It would be cool if you could cast this on an OK, and let him cast himself
to death while spitting out Bone Spirits! :) 

Did I miss any more?

Regards,

Patrick.
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 8:37:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <24f61$42690c0e$82a1d3bf$20746@news1.tudelft.nl>,
Patrick Vervoorn <patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:

> In article <larrygeyer-C4B7F5.10134622042005@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
> Larry Geyer <larrygeyer@comcast.net> wrote:
> >In article <4f46e$4268e8e3$82a1d3bf$18904@news1.tudelft.nl>,
> > Patrick Vervoorn <patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:
> >
> ><much snippage>
>


> Did I miss any more?
>


No. Every other curse and aura that monsters have is also a character
skill.
Anonymous
April 25, 2005 4:07:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> In article <39dqjiF61asgkU1@individual.net>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>short wrote::
>>
>>>"Hansjoerg Malthaner" <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>>
>>>>Wake of fire maxes out at a lesser total damage than lightning sentry,
>>>>but I had too many points in it already and I have some hope that the
>>>>punch is big enough for a good part of the game.

> ;)  Let us know how your trapassin fares. I'm especially interested in her
> performance in late NM/Hell.

Update:

WoF is maxed since a while, and with +skills gear (thanks Patrick!) up
to slvl 30. I'm currently pumping up FB to get at least one synergy maxed.

My fire trapper is now clvl 80 and questing in act 5 hell.

My resistences are ... nonexistant. -62, -32, -28, -34 or something. I
traded resistances for offensive power. I invested one skill point in
fade and it helps a lot. I hate the fact that fade and burst of speed
cancel each other.

Don't ask me how I can survive with that resistances. It somehow works.
Probaly it's simple - just don't get hit. Dodge, hide, run.

Yesterday evening I was doing the "rescue Anya" quest. I did most of it
without my merc, he died too soon and I ran out of money. So most of the
time, only me and my shadow master against the monsters.

I'm not quite sure how to describe it. It's slow, but with some care not
particularly dangerous. Key point seems to advance slowly. Run a few
steps, wait for monsters to approach, kill them, run, wait, kill,
repeat. Can take ages, but works, and is fairly safe.

At one point, about halfway through the questing area, I made a mistake
- I went down from the crystal passage to the frozen river, and walked
to far, attracted a lot of monsters, including some champions, and
during retreat lured them to the stairs. I had a hell of a hard time to
get down those stairs again. My first few tries were instant death, but
somehow I managed to survive long enough to finally clear the area and
continue my path.

I still lack a lot of comparison with other chars. The game was an open
game. Two times other players joined. My first coplayer was a
necromancer of clvl 70something. He died rather frequently. At some
point I told him to stay behind me - actually I had named the game "plz
hlp a5 q3" but all of a sudden I found myself in the stronger position.

Needless to say, I couldn't help him much, because I can't kill fast,
and he kept running too far too quickly.

The necro left the game during the stairs accident. I assume he lost
believe that we can get beyond that problem. He adventured with me for
about 20% of the total distance. I felt very lost when he left the game,
but after getting that far, I wanted to finish the quest.

I continued my path along the frozen river, very carefully, and actually
didn't die anymore there. Quite a while later a clv 80something amazon
joined, and with her help, the game changed from a crawl to a breeze.
She killed some things rather quickly and from that point death sentry
wiped out whole areas. Perfect teamwork and synergy of skills.

With her support, and some luck (I had been close to Anya already as it
turned out) we finshed the quest in only a few more minutes.

I'm pretty sure that my character is among the weaker builds. Yet it is
playable and can advance in the game, but slowly. I can still power up
the fire traps. The lack of resistences isn't too troublesome if playing
carefully, and fade helps a lot.

With some help, my fire trapper got the ancients, and later killed Baal.
I can't say how much I contributed. I'm sure not much in case of the
ancients, but don't really know in case of Baal. I assume my coplayers
did most of the work, and I only did some support, particularly my
shadow master keeping Baal busy so he didn't attack any of us primarily.

I'll try the quests solo later, after some more levelling. I want to
find out if this character can grow strong enough to do it. So far, I
slightly doubt it, but never say never :) 

Conclusion: If you want a character who kills fast in hell, works well
in solo games, and can be played with only little care, do not build a
trapper who focuses on FB/WoF/DS!

If you look for a challenge, I can say, a fire trapper is interesting to
play. I made a few mistakes in my skills distribution, and theoretically
the build has a little more potential than my character uses.

Never tell anyone the WoF traps max out at ~400 dmg, using the
skills/synergies that I chose. People will frown or laugh. Yet the traps
kill things, even in hell. A pure lightning trapper can get lightning
damage to exceed 1500 dmg in avarage, as comparison. Yet lightning
trappers can't deal well with lightning immunes. OTOH one can say, my
trapper can deal equally bad with all kinds of monsters.

Summary: I'd do it again. With only minor modifications. The character
gives a rather intense gaming experience.

The only important dependancy from equipment seems to be +skills.
+skills claws can be shopped or gambled, there are +skills amulets and
charms, and some armors and helms also have +skills, so it's a solveable
problem.

> Regards,
> Patrick.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
April 25, 2005 6:45:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> In article <d4aiim$50k$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:

>>I've retired my second sorceress, but a while I had two, too.
>
> I at least want to try out an FO/Fireball sorc, so that I have static as a
> backup skill/support for the merc when I encounter LI/FI monsters...

FO/Fireball is almost guaranteed success, I think.

Although FO doesn't scale well. You can put in 20 skill points.
Synergies are only 2% with one other cold spell. Cold mastery doesn't
increase damage. You reach the max fairly fast (clvl 50 most likely) and
from that can't increase the damage any more, except with +skills equipment.

Fireball scales better. My guess is that at some point you'll switch
from FO/Fireball to Fireball/FO and make Fireball your primary weapon.

Along with teleport and telekinesis, static field is one of the spells
that usually forget to use. Yet it should be first choice against the
'fat' baddies, partzicularly useful in combination with teleport if you
only have a small static field radius.

>>OTOH with low resists you'll have to run a lot. Standing still while
>>facing a group of mages or archers will be deadly.
>
> Well, I ran around a lot with sorc pre-Tal-Rasha, but still, you need good
> resists to be able to survive gloams in Hell. Or those piercing spearcats.

How do the resists help against the spearcats? My sorc has all resists
at 75 in nightmare, and those spearcats are a serious threat. Almost all
elemental attacks don't really hurt my sorc, but the spears do.

>>I guess I'd change the wizardspike for a rare orb with some resists and
>>+skills, preferrably also faster cast rate (a combination that I
>>couldn't find yet).
>
> I have some rare orbs, but nothing really end-gear like. Wizardspike is a
> bit undervalued I think: it has big resists, a boat-load of mana, and a
> lot of FCR. Of course, no skills, but still...

Maybe I put too many points into energy, but my sorc is happy with
avarage +mana equipment (maybe +100 in total). Since FO is among her
arsenal, +skills seem to be mor evaluable, otherwise FO maxes out too early.

I need mana potions only in case of excessive spamming of FO in
emergency cases.

>>>I'll
>>>probably try to trade one of those for an Occulus. It has resists, it has
>>>+3 skills
>>
>>It gives you teleportititis.

And this can be nasty! If you are ambushed by quill rats or flayers, in
average on every fourth dart you are teleported. And they shoot a lot of
darts. Not only that this confuses your party members, it also confuses
yourself because after some quick, forced, teleports you really don't
have an idea where you are anymore.

Good side: it forces you to learn how to dodge the darts. With the side
effect that you don't take damage. I seems I hate the forced teleport
more than being hit.

I'd like to hear about your findings, if you experience the forced the
teleport as badly asd I do.

>>OTOH the Occulus has so many benefits, I guess it's well worth the
>>inconvenience.

I still would not trade it for something else. I'll try to deal with the
teleportitis.

> I'm not sure how I'd get the resists up with this, because I think I'm
> still lacking then. But I have since then moved some res-all charms off of
> my barb, so maybe that helps. :) 

If you solve the teleport issue the way I do - by evading/dodging
attacks - resistances are no so important.

> Regards,
> Patrick.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
April 25, 2005 7:44:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> In article <d48d86$mbr$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> I finished Act 3 Normal with the pally, with no big incidents. Only
> problem is that my Act 2 merc is lagging back quite a bit, and while he
> deals respectable damage, he has less chance of hitting things, and gets
> killed rather easily. Since he will be swapped out for another one in Act
> 2 NM, I don't want to put too much time in levelling him, but this is
> always a tricky decision to make: do I continue without the merc, or do I
> spend some time levelling him up a bit....?

My current idea is this: during normal difficulty I don't care about
levelling the mercs. I buy new ones once I get to a new act, maybe
except act 5, I prefer a cold type act 3 merc.

During normal they aren't so important for me. I take the support that I
get from them, but I don't care too much.

I start taking care, once I got the merc that I want to keep during the
rest of the game.

> Also finally made my planned Fortitude armor, so I socketed the 5xx def
> plain Archon Plate I'd been saving for this, and dumped the relevant runes
> in. Got a not so good Fortitude, I think 1.0 life per level, and 26
> all-res. Darn. Still a mighty nice armor, but not a thing the Zealot can
> wear yet, so I put it on the necro's merc.

Arreat summit lists Fortitude with +life as modifier for weapons, and
+res all for body armor.

You got both in the armor? Maybe I don't read the page correctly, I'm
referring to this one:

http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/runewords.shtml

Saying:

Weapons
20% Chance To Cast Level 15 Chilling Armor when Struck
+25% Faster Cast Rate
+300% Enhanced Damage
+200% Enhanced Defense
+15 Defense
+(1-1.5)-(99-148.5) To Life (Based on Character Level)
Replenish Life +7
+5% To Maximum Lightning Resist

Body Armor
All Resistances +25-30 (varies)
Damage Reduced By 7
12% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
+1 To Light Radius


> Now that made quite the difference: he now deals, with the Might aura
> active, around 1200-6600 damage per hit. Whoa! He now one-hit kills most
> Hell monsters.

Cool :) 

I definitely need to play longer to really learn all the options of D2,
and to get the runes and items needed to actually try some of the more
interesting runewords.

> I might move this armour around a bit more, maybe see if I
> can get the Barb out of his IK clothing, and see how he fares with a
> unique setup...

It kind of makes me smile if I think how many players try to get their
Barbs into a full IK set, and you try to get him out gain :) 

But I fully support your idea to try a unique setup. I usually suspect
that the mainstream solutions are good, but niche solutions exist that
can be better for a particular purpose.

> Regards,
> Patrick.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
April 26, 2005 7:52:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d4iope$k3t$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

[Grrr, and this one also seems to have gotten lost somewhere. My apologies
if this arrives twice...]

>> I at least want to try out an FO/Fireball sorc, so that I have static as a
>> backup skill/support for the merc when I encounter LI/FI monsters...
>
>FO/Fireball is almost guaranteed success, I think.
>
>Although FO doesn't scale well. You can put in 20 skill points.
>Synergies are only 2% with one other cold spell. Cold mastery doesn't
>increase damage. You reach the max fairly fast (clvl 50 most likely) and
>from that can't increase the damage any more, except with +skills equipment.

What do you mean, doesn't scale well? My current CL/FO sorc has an almost
maxed FO, about 15 hard points in CM, and FO still kills _very_ nicely in
Hell. It's indeed not much use to put points in FO's only synergy. If
that's what you want, Blizzard's your spell...

>Fireball scales better. My guess is that at some point you'll switch
>from FO/Fireball to Fireball/FO and make Fireball your primary weapon.

But I agree the numbers seem to indicate Fireball deals a lot of damage,
due to it's many synergies. Of course, as you also know very well, the
number of fire immunes you encounter is larger than the number of fire or
cold immunes.

>Along with teleport and telekinesis, static field is one of the spells
>that usually forget to use. Yet it should be first choice against the
>'fat' baddies, partzicularly useful in combination with teleport if you
>only have a small static field radius.

I also have Static Field (1 point, but about 13 with +skills) and find I
use it rarely. I should use it more, and probably will once I have build
that needs it.

>> Well, I ran around a lot with sorc pre-Tal-Rasha, but still, you need good
>> resists to be able to survive gloams in Hell. Or those piercing spearcats.
>
>How do the resists help against the spearcats? My sorc has all resists
>at 75 in nightmare, and those spearcats are a serious threat. Almost all
> elemental attacks don't really hurt my sorc, but the spears do.

The spearcat's spears also deal cold damage, which is why these nasty
monsters also cause you to turn blue and slow down. (The Act 5 variant,
that is. The Act 2 ones are rather harmless).

>> I have some rare orbs, but nothing really end-gear like. Wizardspike is a
>> bit undervalued I think: it has big resists, a boat-load of mana, and a
>> lot of FCR. Of course, no skills, but still...
>
>Maybe I put too many points into energy, but my sorc is happy with
>avarage +mana equipment (maybe +100 in total). Since FO is among her
>arsenal, +skills seem to be mor evaluable, otherwise FO maxes out too early.
>
>I need mana potions only in case of excessive spamming of FO in
>emergency cases.

If you think spamming FO consumes a lot of mana, try Chain Lightning! :) 
My FO/CL sorc needs a lot of mana (and has pretty much, about 1050 I
think), and I can spam CL for about 30 seconds before the orb is empty.

Due to mana regeneration, she can spam FO as much as she wants, she never
runs out.

>And this can be nasty! If you are ambushed by quill rats or flayers, in
>average on every fourth dart you are teleported. And they shoot a lot of
>darts. Not only that this confuses your party members, it also confuses
>yourself because after some quick, forced, teleports you really don't
>have an idea where you are anymore.
>
>Good side: it forces you to learn how to dodge the darts. With the side
>effect that you don't take damage. I seems I hate the forced teleport
>more than being hit.
>
>I'd like to hear about your findings, if you experience the forced the
>teleport as badly asd I do.

I haven't been able to try out the Occulus yet, but since I scored some
nice stuff in a 'giveaway' game a while ago, I will probably also get the
Sorceress out of her complete Tal-Rasha set, and see how she fares with a
unique and MF-oriented setup. :) 

>I still would not trade it for something else. I'll try to deal with the
>teleportitis.

I'm curious how it performs. I also have a self-found Eschuta's Temper
(with only +2 skills unfortunately), and it had a big drawback of causing
the sorc to have very low resists.

>> I'm not sure how I'd get the resists up with this, because I think I'm
>> still lacking then. But I have since then moved some res-all charms off of
>> my barb, so maybe that helps. :) 
>
>If you solve the teleport issue the way I do - by evading/dodging
>attacks - resistances are no so important.

:)  I get what you mean, but I try to do both, since I'm also a bit of a
safe player. So I try to least get the resists to 50+, while still trying
to do what I want to do (i.e., loads of MF, or +skills).

Regards,

Patrick.
Anonymous
April 27, 2005 3:42:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
> In article <d4iope$k3t$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

>>>I at least want to try out an FO/Fireball sorc, so that I have static as a
>>>backup skill/support for the merc when I encounter LI/FI monsters...
>>
>>FO/Fireball is almost guaranteed success, I think.
>>
>>Although FO doesn't scale well. You can put in 20 skill points.
>>Synergies are only 2% with one other cold spell. Cold mastery doesn't
>>increase damage. You reach the max fairly fast (clvl 50 most likely) and
>>from that can't increase the damage any more, except with +skills equipment.
>
> What do you mean, doesn't scale well?
> My current CL/FO sorc has an almost
> maxed FO, about 15 hard points in CM, and FO still kills _very_ nicely in
> Hell. It's indeed not much use to put points in FO's only synergy. If
> that's what you want, Blizzard's your spell...

I meant, after the 20 skill points if FO, there is not much you can do
to raise the damage. Probaly I underestimated the effect of cold
mastery, which raises damage indirectly in case of cold resistant monsters.

But if it works well in hell, it's just ok :) 

I had my fire walls in mind, which can be raised by 20 direct points in
fire wall, and then by 20 more points in fire mastery, each time with a
good addition on damage.

>>Fireball scales better. My guess is that at some point you'll switch
>>from FO/Fireball to Fireball/FO and make Fireball your primary weapon.
>
> But I agree the numbers seem to indicate Fireball deals a lot of damage,
> due to it's many synergies. Of course, as you also know very well, the
> number of fire immunes you encounter is larger than the number of fire or
> cold immunes.

It depends. IIRC particularly early act 1 has a lot of fire immunes, and
they drop in act3 and act5, where there are not so many fire immunes
anymore.

Probably I should look for the most-run high level areas and see what
monsters are living there.

>>Along with teleport and telekinesis, static field is one of the spells
>>that usually forget to use. Yet it should be first choice against the
>>'fat' baddies, partzicularly useful in combination with teleport if you
>>only have a small static field radius.
>
> I also have Static Field (1 point, but about 13 with +skills) and find I
> use it rarely. I should use it more, and probably will once I have build
> that needs it.

Maybe it doesn't fit to your style of play or your strategy.

In my case it's a matter of lazyness. Using the full arsenal means to
both think quick and be swift on the keyboard. If I'm lazy I only use
the simple spells that I have usually enabled (FO/Fire Wall).

I'm still practising the teleport thingy. I'm getting better at it :) 

I often wonder. There are always two levels, the character, and the
player. Both influence the success in the game. I see a vast difference
in my skills between good and bad days, yet my characters are the same.

Example: killing nightmare Diablo with my assassin. Good day: 1 red
potion needed, merc and shadow survive. Bad day: died twice before even
seeing Diablo, and needing 4 or so potions during the battle with Diablo.

I've met players who fight tremendously well with bad gear and low level
characters. I think the player makes up more than 50% of the success
in the game.

I'd like to know what other palyers think about the issue? Is the run on
better equipment rectified, or should players first try to hone their
own skills?

>>>Well, I ran around a lot with sorc pre-Tal-Rasha, but still, you need good
>>>resists to be able to survive gloams in Hell. Or those piercing spearcats.
>>
>>How do the resists help against the spearcats? My sorc has all resists
>>at 75 in nightmare, and those spearcats are a serious threat. Almost all
>> elemental attacks don't really hurt my sorc, but the spears do.
>
> The spearcat's spears also deal cold damage, which is why these nasty
> monsters also cause you to turn blue and slow down. (The Act 5 variant,
> that is. The Act 2 ones are rather harmless).

I see. They really gave my sorceress a hard time, yet I don't remeber if
being frozen was the problem, but for sure I couldn't survive more than
4 or 5 hist from the spears. Maybe I had 'cannot be frozen' for sure I
had maxed resists. Still I had to run a lot.

>>I need mana potions only in case of excessive spamming of FO in
>>emergency cases.
>
> If you think spamming FO consumes a lot of mana, try Chain Lightning! :) 
> My FO/CL sorc needs a lot of mana (and has pretty much, about 1050 I
> think), and I can spam CL for about 30 seconds before the orb is empty.
>
> Due to mana regeneration, she can spam FO as much as she wants, she never
> runs out.

In your response to my sorceress description, you said I've put a lot of
points into energy. I assume you've put less points in energy. How do
you get almost thrice the mana with less points?

And, how much life does your sorceress have?

> Regards,
> Patrick.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
April 27, 2005 4:09:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d4nmpk$gn8$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

>> What do you mean, doesn't scale well?
>> My current CL/FO sorc has an almost
>> maxed FO, about 15 hard points in CM, and FO still kills _very_ nicely in
>> Hell. It's indeed not much use to put points in FO's only synergy. If
>> that's what you want, Blizzard's your spell...
>
>I meant, after the 20 skill points if FO, there is not much you can do
>to raise the damage. Probaly I underestimated the effect of cold
>mastery, which raises damage indirectly in case of cold resistant monsters.
>
>But if it works well in hell, it's just ok :) 

Yes, there's not synergy to speak off, but this is mostly countered by the
very nice effect CM has on FO's damage. :) 

>I had my fire walls in mind, which can be raised by 20 direct points in
>fire wall, and then by 20 more points in fire mastery, each time with a
>good addition on damage.

It looks like the Fire Tree deals a lot of damage, so I should really to
to start that Fireball/??? sorc soon. I know I have the gear for it, so
that should not be a problem...

>It depends. IIRC particularly early act 1 has a lot of fire immunes, and
>they drop in act3 and act5, where there are not so many fire immunes
>anymore.
>
>Probably I should look for the most-run high level areas and see what
>monsters are living there.

I don't watch Fire Immunes since I have little chars who have been
affected by them. Off the top of my head, The Pit (lvl85 area) has about
60% Cold Immunes, 40% Lightning immunes, and no dual immunes (leaving
aside the usual random bosses there of course).

With a Fire/??? Sorc I'd of course do the pit in a different way, and mind
different immunities.

>> I also have Static Field (1 point, but about 13 with +skills) and find I
>> use it rarely. I should use it more, and probably will once I have build
>> that needs it.
>
>Maybe it doesn't fit to your style of play or your strategy.

It's probably because there are only a few specific monsters where Static
Field might work, but CL + FO deal so much damage, there's usually little
need for Static Field. I've also done very little boss runs with my sorc,
so I don't have a good feeling for this yet.

>In my case it's a matter of lazyness. Using the full arsenal means to
>both think quick and be swift on the keyboard. If I'm lazy I only use
>the simple spells that I have usually enabled (FO/Fire Wall).
>
>I'm still practising the teleport thingy. I'm getting better at it :) 

Practice always works. :) 

>I often wonder. There are always two levels, the character, and the
>player. Both influence the success in the game. I see a vast difference
>in my skills between good and bad days, yet my characters are the same.
>
>Example: killing nightmare Diablo with my assassin. Good day: 1 red
>potion needed, merc and shadow survive. Bad day: died twice before even
>seeing Diablo, and needing 4 or so potions during the battle with Diablo.
>
>I've met players who fight tremendously well with bad gear and low level
> characters. I think the player makes up more than 50% of the success
>in the game.
>
>I'd like to know what other palyers think about the issue? Is the run on
>better equipment rectified, or should players first try to hone their
>own skills?

In my opinion, it depends. In Normal and NM, player skill is important, if
the gear is bad. In Hell, you need both good player skills, but if you
don't have the right gear, it's still going to be very, very difficult.

>> The spearcat's spears also deal cold damage, which is why these nasty
>> monsters also cause you to turn blue and slow down. (The Act 5 variant,
>> that is. The Act 2 ones are rather harmless).
>
>I see. They really gave my sorceress a hard time, yet I don't remeber if
>being frozen was the problem, but for sure I couldn't survive more than
>4 or 5 hist from the spears. Maybe I had 'cannot be frozen' for sure I
>had maxed resists. Still I had to run a lot.

That's possible, though there aren't that many items which have this mod.
Perhaps you had a Ravenfrost ring equipped?

>> Due to mana regeneration, she can spam FO as much as she wants, she never
>> runs out.
>
>In your response to my sorceress description, you said I've put a lot of
>points into energy. I assume you've put less points in energy. How do
>you get almost thrice the mana with less points?

With my sorc's gear: the Tal set has many sources of +mana, plus the total
set bonus. Shield now provides me with +105 mana, Frostburn increases her
mana pool by 40%, and I have quite some +mana small charms, and at least
one Grand Charm with 54 mana.

So that all works out to her current mana pool of about 1150. All this
with _no_ points in energy.

>And, how much life does your sorceress have?

Also due to gear, I think she's around 1000 I think. I'd have to look this
up to be sure.

Maybe tonight we could compare some stats, if you'd like. :) 

Regards,

Patrick.
Anonymous
April 27, 2005 9:08:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d4o4v6$jd8$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>
>> He will of course be swapped out for an Act 2 merc once in get
>> there, though I'm not yet sure which one I'll get: The Might dude for
>> extra damage, or the Holy Freeze one to slow down monsters... Hmmm.
>
>I assume brittle characters and spellcasters prefer holy freeze, so that
>they can stay away from monsters more easily. Tough character/melee
>fighetrs prefer might, so that they can hit harder. Faster kills = less
>time for monster to hit you.

Unfortunately, a Paladin is not that tough too. Especially because he has
relatively little life per point of vit, and also because he misses
somethin like Battle Orders.

So I'm not sure yet. Might sounds OK. What I'm also worrying about is how
the Paladin should handle OK's: I rushed (or rather, tried to rush... :) 
through Act IV Normal, and got killed unusually much by Iron Maiden. Zeal
is a nice skill, but once you start with your 5 swings, there's no way you
can interrupt them. And if you're hit by cold damage, turn blue, at the
start of a Zeal, and then Iron Maiden is cast, you're in big, big trouble.

Tried to equip a bow, but that wasn't the solution either.

>> Actually, most of my Ists haven't come from any unique items I found in
>> Hell, or somewhere else. Most of them I got when trading away gambled
>> (rare) coronets; you just need a lot of gold and as high a level char as
>> possible, but your trapper or sorc is quite enough already to gamble the
>> best types of coronets/tiaras/diadems.
>
>My sorc is comparable rich and should gamble much more often :) 

You could also transfer all acquired gold to your highest level character.
MF has no impact on gambling, so you should just do it with your highest
level one...

>My trapper is always out of money. (She has now 11,000 Gold after some
>test with a metalgrid amu and soem iron golems - one charge costs 25,000
>gold. This isn't even enough to revive her merc). Actually I started to
>mass-kill monsters in easier areas with her for any loot to sell it.
>OTOH if I do that seriously, I can get several hundreds of thousands
>gold from loot in a quarter of an hour, I guess.

Mule over some gold? :) 

Or equip some Gold Find stuff. Some people build characters especially for
Gold Finding; I think a very popular one is a Barbarian (since he can dual
wield Ali-Baba's).

>> And a respectful bunch I also got by trading away semi-plain skill Grand
>> Charms. For that, you just need a nice Grand Charm (one found somewhere at
>> the end of Act 3 NM would be fine), and a lot of pgems. And pgems is what
>> you can score for the unique stuff you find in your MF-runs in NM/Hell.
>
>In my stash quite a lot of pgems have been accumulating. +1 skills is
>from ilvl 50 upward IIRC, so yes, any grand charm from there will do.

Yup. And if you get a GC with an ilvl of around 50-58, there are no other
prefixes than can spawn on it, so you maximize your chances of rolling a
skiller.

>I need a new brain! Yesterday after a nightmare baal run there was a
>grand charm lying on the floor, and I didn't think of picking it up
>(minions should be all mlvl 65 or higher). How stupid one can be :( 

I pick up all Grand Charms. You'd be surprised how much a Grand Charm with
a large amount of mana (50-55 or more) is worth, especially if it's
combined with a healty amount of +life. The same goes for Small Charms.
Large Charms are a bit 'crippled' in this respect.

>> So I think it's quite doable to score a bunch of Ists that way, and with a
>> few Ists, you open up quite some nice runewords already. And for about 5-6
>> Ists, you can get about any of the high-runes (on SC Eur ladder that is,
>> the prices on the US servers is ridiculously much lower).
>
>Hackers have infiltrated the US servers and now the rune drops are much
>more common there :) 

That's the only explanation I can think of. If only I could buy any of the
HR's for an Ist+Um! Sheesh, that would change the whole game, and I'd
equip all my mercs with Fortitude armours, Infinity polearms, and
whatsuch...

>> Please remember magefist is a quite common item, easily obtainable for a
>> few pgems, I think.
>
>I searched the europe trade forum on battle.net and found a rather wide
>range of prices - starting at one PGem going up to one Pul rune.

People also pay insane amounts of 'perfect' items. But if you just want a
mediocre one, post a request there, and offer a pgem, or a bit more.

>I feel no urge on the topic. It's a "nice to have" rather than needed
>gear to survive. So I'm not in a rush to get the magefists.

At least you know it's (easily) available, so if you ever feel the 'need'
to get one, you can acquire it rather quickly...

>I assume so, but I don't think this ring has particularly valuable mods.
>It has a very nice combination of mods, though.

Which is why I was curious as to it's mods, especially if someone
maphacking you was interested in it.

>> What are the stats of the ring this person was interested in?
>
>For me it is quite valuable, in the sense of usefuleness.
>
>It has all 4 elemental resists in the range of 10-20, +14 str and +1
>light radius.
>
>It's not that special, just nice.

Those are all the mods? No FCR on it? Or +life/+mana. Still, this sounds
like a nice ring: a high amount of res-all, combined with some specific
resists, and +14 str (which saves putting 14 points in str, which could
then be put in either vit for more life, or dex for maxed block.

Rare rings with lots of +str/dex/vit/ene are very valuable, and almost
'godly' when combined with resists/FCR/other useful mods.

>I was annoyed by two things: The person was using a hack and looked up
>my equipment. IMO this violates my privacy. Second, this person tried to
>make use of the knowledge aquired. IMO this makes the case even worse.
>
>I should just ignore such people.

Yep, it's very irritating, but sometimes it does help.

At the start of the first ladder, I found a pair of War Travellers (the
unique War Boots). They are very popular for MF, and they can spawn with a
variable amount of MF, ranging from 30 to 50. I had found a pair with
something like 47 or 48 MF on it, and had given them to my skelliemancer
since it was simply the best pair of boots I had in my possession then (he
was my first char, and found them somewhere in Act 3 NM).

In a trade game, someone also maphacked me, and wanted my boots. Reason:
they had higher MF than his sorc's War Travellers (his had something like
45), and he wanted max MF on that char.

But since I also didn't want to lose the 'survival' mods of the boots, I
made a deal with him in which he traded his pair of War Travellers (with
only a few % less MF than mine, so I didn't care) and a bunch of _very_
useful items for me, for my boots.

This really helped me boost the skelliemancer in that ladder.
Unfortunately, that ladder ended before I really got up to speed.

>> As long as you have fun, there's no need to become rich.
>
>That's right. Say, is it just me, or is there a significant drop in
>serious public games? It seems most people only want to rush.

Since I almost never play in public games, I cannot tell. :) 

>> I'm not an expert as some of the people here, but I must admit I have seen
>> most of the low/mid-level uniques already, and quite some of the 'higher'
>> uniques. So that's why I'm currently trying to gather enough Ists to get
>> me a Jah and Ber, and when I do that, I also want an 'Ith' and a nice 3
>> socketed armour 'on the ready', to make Enigma in. :) 
>
>How many months (years?) do you play? One key to access the more
>valuable things seems to be to play just long enough to have collected
>enough wealth to trade all the needed things.
>
>Not that I mind, I'm just curious :) 

I'm not really sure about exact dates, but I started playing D2 probably
about a few months before the first Ladder started (and 1.10 was
introduced). But then I only played SP, until I got a bit bored with that,
and with the difficulty of acquiring certain specific items.

This became even more so an issue with 1.10: Hell was practically
unplayable with my mediocre gear. So then I moved to B.Net, somewhere at
3/4 of the first ladder.

Hope this gives you an idea.

>> Unfortunately, it seems little other people are reading 'our' thread
>> because I got no (other) feedback to the above setup. Of course, quite
>> some of it I don't have, including the 2 BK rings.
>
>The topic is getting old, and it's misleading, noone expects a barbarian
>build plan here.
>
>Some newsreaders use the avearge age of a thread to sort it, and this
>thread is maybe out of scope for many people.
>
>Maybe you should repost the question with a new subject. Then it will be
>sorted on top, and the subject might attract more barbarian experts :) 

Nah, I'll keep in the back of my mind, and if/when I have time, I'll play
around with the build a bit, and if he doesn't cut it then, I'll try to
acquire some of that stuff.

I'm also making it a habit of asking people I encounter to show their
gear, so I get an idea of what different (variants of) builds use. That's
also how I got to the mentioned setup, so I'm quite sure it'll work. It's
just a question of acquiring it. :) 

Regards,

Patrick.
Anonymous
April 28, 2005 4:05:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> I'm not really sure about exact dates, but I started playing D2 probably
> about a few months before the first Ladder started (and 1.10 was
> introduced). But then I only played SP, until I got a bit bored with that,
> and with the difficulty of acquiring certain specific items.
>
> This became even more so an issue with 1.10: Hell was practically
> unplayable with my mediocre gear. So then I moved to B.Net, somewhere at
> 3/4 of the first ladder.
>
> Hope this gives you an idea.

I ordered my copy of D2 in Summer 2002. I've been playing single player
until a few weeks ago. There have been _big_ breaks. Overall I only
played 9 different characters, 8 of them until early nightmare.

I'm playing online since March this year. It's much more fun than single
player IMO.

So I know D2 since a long time, I've also been playing Diablo, but in
terms of playing time and experience I'm very much of a newby still.

> Regards,
> Patrick.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
April 28, 2005 5:53:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d4qcht$tpc$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>
>> I'm not really sure about exact dates, but I started playing D2 probably
>> about a few months before the first Ladder started (and 1.10 was
>> introduced). But then I only played SP, until I got a bit bored with that,
>> and with the difficulty of acquiring certain specific items.
>>
>> This became even more so an issue with 1.10: Hell was practically
>> unplayable with my mediocre gear. So then I moved to B.Net, somewhere at
>> 3/4 of the first ladder.
>>
>> Hope this gives you an idea.
>
>I ordered my copy of D2 in Summer 2002. I've been playing single player
>until a few weeks ago. There have been _big_ breaks. Overall I only
>played 9 different characters, 8 of them until early nightmare.

Then you have had the game a lot longer than me. :)  I haven't played that
many characters really: skelliemancer, hammerdin, lightning trapper, IK
Barb, FO/CL sorc and a baby Fanatic Zealot, with a Javelin amazon as a
project to do, and firm plans to do another sorc.

So I'm not that experienced, though I have a lot of info from reading this
newsgroup for quite some time. :) 

>I'm playing online since March this year. It's much more fun than single
>player IMO.

Yes, after I went online, I never went back. I should actually look at my
SP characters, to see what gear they're using.. :) 

>So I know D2 since a long time, I've also been playing Diablo, but in
>terms of playing time and experience I'm very much of a newby still.

:)  No worries. :) 

Patrick.
Anonymous
April 28, 2005 6:08:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> In article <d4nmpk$gn8$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

>>I had my fire walls in mind, which can be raised by 20 direct points in
>>fire wall, and then by 20 more points in fire mastery, each time with a
>>good addition on damage.
>
> It looks like the Fire Tree deals a lot of damage, so I should really to
> to start that Fireball/??? sorc soon. I know I have the gear for it, so
> that should not be a problem...

Quite some of the fire spells have a component that deals damage over
time (like poison). Some even don't have an immediate damage (inferno,
blaze, fire wall). The numbers look impressive, but often monsters only
suffer a short time in the flames and then move away.

Lighnting and cold spells deal damage immediately.

>>It depends. IIRC particularly early act 1 has a lot of fire immunes, and
>>they drop in act3 and act5, where there are not so many fire immunes
>>anymore.
>
> I don't watch Fire Immunes since I have little chars who have been
> affected by them. Off the top of my head, The Pit (lvl85 area) has about
> 60% Cold Immunes, 40% Lightning immunes, and no dual immunes (leaving
> aside the usual random bosses there of course).
>
> With a Fire/??? Sorc I'd of course do the pit in a different way, and mind
> different immunities.

Right, yesterday I noticed the first fire+cold immunes. I'm sure they
were there before, but I seem not to have memorized anything that wasn't
fire+lightning immune.

While firewall is a very static spell and needs support from cold spells
to slow down monsters, fireball is very dynamic. So you could try a
fire/lightning source. Lightning deals a lot of damage too.

Of course that's a very offensive build.

>>>The spearcat's spears also deal cold damage, which is why these nasty
>>>monsters also cause you to turn blue and slow down. (The Act 5 variant,
>>>that is. The Act 2 ones are rather harmless).
>>
>>I see. They really gave my sorceress a hard time, yet I don't remeber if
>>being frozen was the problem, but for sure I couldn't survive more than
>>4 or 5 hits from the spears. Maybe I had 'cannot be frozen' for sure I
>>had maxed resists. Still I had to run a lot.
>
> That's possible, though there aren't that many items which have this mod.
> Perhaps you had a Ravenfrost ring equipped?

No, I don't have one. I had a magic ring with "cannot be frozen" but I
don't know how long I actually used it. Currently my sorc wears two rare
rings, but neither of them has the modifier.

> Regards,
> Patrick.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
April 28, 2005 8:09:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d4qjoh$ggi$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

>> It looks like the Fire Tree deals a lot of damage, so I should really to
>> to start that Fireball/??? sorc soon. I know I have the gear for it, so
>> that should not be a problem...
>
>Quite some of the fire spells have a component that deals damage over
>time (like poison). Some even don't have an immediate damage (inferno,
>blaze, fire wall). The numbers look impressive, but often monsters only
>suffer a short time in the flames and then move away.
>
>Lighnting and cold spells deal damage immediately.

Not all of them, see Blizzard for instance. But yes, Fire has more
indirect stuff...

>> With a Fire/??? Sorc I'd of course do the pit in a different way, and mind
>> different immunities.
>
>Right, yesterday I noticed the first fire+cold immunes. I'm sure they
>were there before, but I seem not to have memorized anything that wasn't
>fire+lightning immune.

That's what happens in Hell. My sorc was also progressing quite nicely
when I first entered Hell, so I got more and more confident. Until I ran
into the first bosspack where the boss was Lightning + Cold immune, and
both immunities could _not_ be broken with the LR wand. I ran a lot for
next minutes, to finally have the merc finish them off one by one.

>While firewall is a very static spell and needs support from cold spells
>to slow down monsters, fireball is very dynamic. So you could try a
>fire/lightning source. Lightning deals a lot of damage too.
>
>Of course that's a very offensive build.

I like the sound of that! :)  But I'm afraid I need too much skill points
if I want to have powerful, direct-damage spells in both the fire
(fireball) and lightning (chain lightning/lightning) trees.

>> That's possible, though there aren't that many items which have this mod.
>> Perhaps you had a Ravenfrost ring equipped?
>
>No, I don't have one. I had a magic ring with "cannot be frozen" but I
>don't know how long I actually used it. Currently my sorc wears two rare
>rings, but neither of them has the modifier.

A magic ring with 'Cannot be Frozen' on it!? Which pre- or suffix would
that be? It could be that I have a total brain-fart, but I thought that
cannot spawn on magic rings!? It might be that a mod like 'Half Freeze
time' spawns on magic rings!?

Regards,

Patrick.
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 1:49:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> In article <d4qjoh$ggi$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>
>>Right, yesterday I noticed the first fire+cold immunes. I'm sure they
>>were there before, but I seem not to have memorized anything that wasn't
>>fire+lightning immune.
>
> That's what happens in Hell. My sorc was also progressing quite nicely
> when I first entered Hell, so I got more and more confident. Until I ran
> into the first bosspack where the boss was Lightning + Cold immune, and
> both immunities could _not_ be broken with the LR wand. I ran a lot for
> next minutes, to finally have the merc finish them off one by one.

Corpsefire, the zombie boss in the den of evil yesterday spawned as fire
immune and cold immune. He killed my merc three times.

Finally I shocked him to death with static field and spamming charged
bolts. I can say at that point I was happy to have them! Otherwise I'd
have had to restart the game and try to do the quest again, in the hope
to get a easier combination.

While questing in hell, I first spend the planned 10 stat points on
vitality, then stepwise all saved points except the reserved 100. This
gives me 606 life, still not much, but much better than before.

Skill points will now all go into cold mastery and fire mastery. FO
became noticeable stronger, fire wall is reliable if monsters don't move
to fast.

I think your preference of fire ball is a good choice. Fire wall is
quite useless in some cases, and if the opponents are cold immune, I
can't do much.

>>While firewall is a very static spell and needs support from cold spells
>>to slow down monsters, fireball is very dynamic. So you could try a
>>fire/lightning source. Lightning deals a lot of damage too.
>>
>>Of course that's a very offensive build.
>
> I like the sound of that! :)  But I'm afraid I need too much skill points
> if I want to have powerful, direct-damage spells in both the fire
> (fireball) and lightning (chain lightning/lightning) trees.

It depends. I think it won't be worse than another dual-tree sorceress.

In case of fireball, synergies seem to have more effect than mastery.

20 Fire bolt
20 Fire ball
1 Fire mastery

Results in fire balls of 985 - 1118 (ø1052) damage


Lightning seems to dominated by mastery.

20 chain lightning
20 lightning mastery

Results in 3 - 1147 (ø575) damage (I believe per branch of CL)


In addition you'll need a few prerequisites, a point in warmth, static
field, teleport (the usual support spells).

So it seems you can finish the build roughly around clvl 84 depending
how many of the skill giving quests you can finish while the character
grows :) 


After that you can pump up both spells by adding to fire mastery and
lightning or charged bolt. The calculation above was done without +skills.

If you have +8 skills, you get:

Chain lightning: 4 - 2052 (ø1028.5)
Fire ball: 2307 - 2555 (ø2431)

This doesn't look too bad. I think I should try this by myself. We'll
have twins, if we stick to the plan :) 

I've used this calculator:
http://diablo2.ingame.de/spiel/skills/calc/index.php?ch...

(It's a german page, I don't know how useful this is for you).

>>>That's possible, though there aren't that many items which have this mod.
>>>Perhaps you had a Ravenfrost ring equipped?
>>
>>No, I don't have one. I had a magic ring with "cannot be frozen" but I
>>don't know how long I actually used it. Currently my sorc wears two rare
>>rings, but neither of them has the modifier.
>
> A magic ring with 'Cannot be Frozen' on it!? Which pre- or suffix would
> that be? It could be that I have a total brain-fart, but I thought that
> cannot spawn on magic rings!? It might be that a mod like 'Half Freeze
> time' spawns on magic rings!?

I've been browsing the arreat summit. It lists neither "cannot be
frozen" nor "half freeze duration" in the magic prefix/suffix sections.

I don't have the ring in question anymore, so I can't look it up. My
memory isn't so good lately (too little sleep :)  ), so I assume I've
been wrong. Sorry for the confusion.

> Regards,
> Patrick.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 4:28:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> In article <d4o4v6$jd8$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>>
>>
>>>He will of course be swapped out for an Act 2 merc once in get
>>>there, though I'm not yet sure which one I'll get: The Might dude for
>>>extra damage, or the Holy Freeze one to slow down monsters... Hmmm.
>>
>>I assume brittle characters and spellcasters prefer holy freeze, so that
>>they can stay away from monsters more easily. Tough character/melee
>>fighetrs prefer might, so that they can hit harder. Faster kills = less
>>time for monster to hit you.
>
> Unfortunately, a Paladin is not that tough too. Especially because he has
> relatively little life per point of vit, and also because he misses
> somethin like Battle Orders.
>
> So I'm not sure yet. Might sounds OK.

I never played a paladin so far, but if I watch other players I see
paladins to melee a lot, so I think might is the best choice.

> What I'm also worrying about is how
> the Paladin should handle OK's: I rushed (or rather, tried to rush... :) 
> through Act IV Normal, and got killed unusually much by Iron Maiden. Zeal
> is a nice skill, but once you start with your 5 swings, there's no way you
> can interrupt them. And if you're hit by cold damage, turn blue, at the
> start of a Zeal, and then Iron Maiden is cast, you're in big, big trouble.

Once in nightmare I joined a barbarian who was doing a boss run. (The
game had a rather strange name, so I didn't know before what he was
doing. I was just curious.) We ran all busses, including some of the
minors, and the only time he died was in the chaos sanctuary, iron
maidened. He was afraid of it, he told me in advance, so I guess he took
care but yet it happened.

It seems unavoidable. OTOH some days are bad days, and you next tries
might be more successful.

> Tried to equip a bow, but that wasn't the solution either.

Unless you have a very good bow, it takes ages to kill them, and OKs
always come in packs there ... if you have patience, it works, but it's
not quick.

>>>Actually, most of my Ists haven't come from any unique items I found in
>>>Hell, or somewhere else. Most of them I got when trading away gambled
>>>(rare) coronets; you just need a lot of gold and as high a level char as
>>>possible, but your trapper or sorc is quite enough already to gamble the
>>>best types of coronets/tiaras/diadems.
>>
>>My sorc is comparable rich and should gamble much more often :) 
>
> You could also transfer all acquired gold to your highest level character.
> MF has no impact on gambling, so you should just do it with your highest
> level one...

I've now gambled almost all my money away ... no luck. Maybe gambling is
my thing.

> Or equip some Gold Find stuff. Some people build characters especially for
> Gold Finding; I think a very popular one is a Barbarian (since he can dual
> wield Ali-Baba's).

Is this a promising strategy? The biggest sources of gold seem to be
armors, wands and staves which all sell for lots of gold.

> I'm also making it a habit of asking people I encounter to show their
> gear, so I get an idea of what different (variants of) builds use. That's
> also how I got to the mentioned setup, so I'm quite sure it'll work. It's
> just a question of acquiring it. :) 

I sometimes wish chatting was easier in the game. I often want to ask
players or tell them about something, but there just isn't time to type
while playing :( 

> Regards,
> Patrick.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 5:19:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:08:02 +0200, Patrick Vervoorn wrote:

> In article <d4o4v6$jd8$1@domitilla.aioe.org>, Hansjoerg Malthaner
> <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>>
>>> He will of course be swapped out for an Act 2 merc once in get there,
>>> though I'm not yet sure which one I'll get: The Might dude for extra
>>> damage, or the Holy Freeze one to slow down monsters... Hmmm.
>>
>>I assume brittle characters and spellcasters prefer holy freeze, so that
>>they can stay away from monsters more easily. Tough character/melee
>>fighetrs prefer might, so that they can hit harder. Faster kills = less
>>time for monster to hit you.
>
> Unfortunately, a Paladin is not that tough too. Especially because he has
> relatively little life per point of vit, and also because he misses
> somethin like Battle Orders.
>

But he has some other big defense and damage boosters, and paladin shields
often come with high res on them.
Cheap dex req for max block, and almost born with 2 frame block, so you
almost never enters a blocklock.
My merc is different, i choose them from the type of paladin i build. Atm
i have 3 playing paladins and nr. 4 is up for rebuild.
Smiter using act 3 cold sorc, freezes monsters which is very nice when
you have to bang them with your shield.
Zealot using act 1 cold arrow rouge, i'm doing plenty damage to
everything that isn't PI, and then IM can be a problem too as you wrote
yourself. She is using wws so when she doesn't fire her cold arrow she
deal out a little magic damage. This allows me to stand in front of
monsters and take the beating while she stands back and kills them with
her bow without any risk of dying to IM.
Holyshocker using act 2 holy freeze, he slows thing down and deal cold
damage, which means our little party is doing cold, lightning and
physical damage so we should be able to handle most monsters.
When i rebuild my avenger he will again use act 2 holy freeze, again to
slow down monsters and he will do a lot more damage with a level 25
conviction around.

> So I'm not sure yet. Might sounds OK. What I'm also worrying about is how
> the Paladin should handle OK's: I rushed (or rather, tried to rush... :) 
> through Act IV Normal, and got killed unusually much by Iron Maiden. Zeal
> is a nice skill, but once you start with your 5 swings, there's no way you
> can interrupt them. And if you're hit by cold damage, turn blue, at the
> start of a Zeal, and then Iron Maiden is cast, you're in big, big trouble.
>
> Tried to equip a bow, but that wasn't the solution either.
>

I don't like my mercs:) 
So i stand still and take the beating, which i can handle due to the fast
block i mentioned before, and use some kind of damage booster and let the
merc kill.
If he dies he can be reborn again with no loses.
I never swing a weapon in CS when doing it solo but let the merc do it
unless we talking about normal or nm, there i usually uses or bow and
still can maintian high elemental resists, and if you add enchant to that
you will have no problem at all.

> [snipped a lot]

--
Sonni
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 5:36:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d4souv$psb$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>
>> That's what happens in Hell. My sorc was also progressing quite nicely
>> when I first entered Hell, so I got more and more confident. Until I ran
>> into the first bosspack where the boss was Lightning + Cold immune, and
>> both immunities could _not_ be broken with the LR wand. I ran a lot for
>> next minutes, to finally have the merc finish them off one by one.
>
>Corpsefire, the zombie boss in the den of evil yesterday spawned as fire
>immune and cold immune. He killed my merc three times.

Ouch. Looking at other posts (I read all, then started with replying, and
this is first :)  of yours, it seems he's wearing a Shaftstop. This is in
itself not a bad armour (the damage reduce is nice), but it has not
additional resists, and a merc of the level you have, probably has rather
low resists in Hell?

I'd try to swap out the Shaftstop for something else. Most of my mercs get
a Duriel's Shell by default, and when I deem them to weak, my next up
armour of choice is a nice Duress armour. Fortitude, as discussed before,
would be even better, but it is a 'tad' expensive. *ehem* :) 

Duress is a nice, cheap (relatively, sorry :)  alternative for Fortitude.

>Finally I shocked him to death with static field and spamming charged
>bolts. I can say at that point I was happy to have them! Otherwise I'd
>have had to restart the game and try to do the quest again, in the hope
>to get a easier combination.

This is the big problem with dual-tree sorcs; on encountering a
dual-immune, you're in trouble. And this is where the preference for
probably a Cold/Fire sorc comes from, because only the Lightning tree has
a 1-point wonder which does considerable damage to a Cold/Fire immune:
Static Field again! :) 

However, I really think you should try to acquire a wand with Lower
Resists charges on it (I have one on a mule somewhere, which has 70+ lvl 2
charges you can have for free). Once you break even one of the immunities
on the monster, you'll see it going down really quickly.

And this is also where the cold spells shine, because once you break the
immunity with Lower Resists, Cold Mastery kicks in, and quickly lowers the
Cold Resists of the monster in question to very low levels, meaning it
takes a _lot_ of damage from your cold spell of choice.

A math example of this, where I assume we encounter a Cold/Fire immune
monster, and where a lvl 2 Lower resists charge removes both immunities,
bringing them to 95%. Also, the sorc has a Cold spell doing 100 dmg and a
fire spell doing 100 dmg. The sorc also has Cold Mastery, which remove 75%
resists, and Fire mastery which adds 200% damage (i.e., triples the fire
spell dmg to 300).

OK, for fire, we get:

300 dmg - (300 x 0.95) = 15. You only deal 15 damage to the monster

For cold, we get:

100 dmg - (100 x (0.95 - 0.75) ) = 100 - (100 x 0.2) = 80.

So as you can see, Cold spells are much more powerful on broken immunities
than the other spells, and is another reason why Frozen Orb is liked so
much: for relatively few points, you get a very powerful spell.


>While questing in hell, I first spend the planned 10 stat points on
>vitality, then stepwise all saved points except the reserved 100. This
>gives me 606 life, still not much, but much better than before.

At least these are numbers where Hell should be doable, and you are at
least not one-hit killed, unless you encounter something nasty Extra
Strong, Spectral Hit, Cold/Fire Enchanted or something.

>Skill points will now all go into cold mastery and fire mastery. FO
>became noticeable stronger, fire wall is reliable if monsters don't move
>to fast.

See above. Especially CM is much more powerful than it seems at first
look.

>I think your preference of fire ball is a good choice. Fire wall is
>quite useless in some cases, and if the opponents are cold immune, I
>can't do much.

Well, Fire Ball also is supposed to do splash damage, so you can spam it a
lot, and also damage groups with it. It sounds like fun, I just need time
to level up another sorc, and from my experience it's quite boring until
you start to unlock your main skills. However, with a Fireball sorc, the
tactic is to start pumping Firebolt, and after that, Fire ball, as soon as
you can, since they're both synergies you want to max.

With an FO/CL sorc, you don't want to spend too many points in the
lower-level skills, and since FO only becomes available at lvl30, and the
lightning spells eat lots of mana, it's quite a struggle until about 30. I
managed to get along with some rare orbs, with +1 to nice skills, like for
instance Blizzard. In Act 3/4 normal, a low level blizzard still does
quite nice damage.

>> I like the sound of that! :)  But I'm afraid I need too much skill points
>> if I want to have powerful, direct-damage spells in both the fire
>> (fireball) and lightning (chain lightning/lightning) trees.
>
>It depends. I think it won't be worse than another dual-tree sorceress.
>
>In case of fireball, synergies seem to have more effect than mastery.
>
>20 Fire bolt
>20 Fire ball
> 1 Fire mastery
>
>Results in fire balls of 985 - 1118 (ø1052) damage

Actually, I think you also want to max Fire Mastery here, because the
damage increase is very noticable. I don't have a Fireball sorc guide
read, but your numbers above look rather low. Maxed Fire Mastery will
raise this quite a bit, I think?

The guide I read, suggested maxing Fire bolt, Fire Ball and FM, and also
some points in Meteor, if/when available.

The other part was FO+CM, because it's a cheap killer.

Third tree is covered with a cheap Static Field to quickly get the
monsters to 1/2 - 1/3rd of their life, and hope the merc can finish them
off.

>Lightning seems to dominated by mastery.
>
>20 chain lightning
>20 lightning mastery
>
>Results in 3 - 1147 (ø575) damage (I believe per branch of CL)

Also very low. I don't know the numbers of my FO/CL sorc, but she has
maxed CL and LM, and has quite a few points in Lightning, and deals, I
think, considerably more damage than the above.

>In addition you'll need a few prerequisites, a point in warmth, static
>field, teleport (the usual support spells).

Yup. But again this sorc is totally hosed if you encounter a
Fire/Lightning immune, because you have no cold damage to speak of.

>So it seems you can finish the build roughly around clvl 84 depending
>how many of the skill giving quests you can finish while the character
>grows :) 
>
>
>After that you can pump up both spells by adding to fire mastery and
>lightning or charged bolt. The calculation above was done without +skills.
>
>If you have +8 skills, you get:
>
>Chain lightning: 4 - 2052 (ø1028.5)
>Fire ball: 2307 - 2555 (ø2431)
>
>This doesn't look too bad. I think I should try this by myself. We'll
>have twins, if we stick to the plan :) 

:)  While I like the numbers, I find it worrying there's no cold damage
included. ;) 

>I've used this calculator:
>http://diablo2.ingame.de/spiel/skills/calc/index.php?ch...
>
>(It's a german page, I don't know how useful this is for you).

Ich spreche und rede ein bisschen Deutsch, so I think I can manage. :) 

>> A magic ring with 'Cannot be Frozen' on it!? Which pre- or suffix would
>> that be? It could be that I have a total brain-fart, but I thought that
>> cannot spawn on magic rings!? It might be that a mod like 'Half Freeze
>> time' spawns on magic rings!?
>
>I've been browsing the arreat summit. It lists neither "cannot be
>frozen" nor "half freeze duration" in the magic prefix/suffix sections.
>
>I don't have the ring in question anymore, so I can't look it up. My
>memory isn't so good lately (too little sleep :)  ), so I assume I've
>been wrong. Sorry for the confusion.

No problem. Cannot be Frozen is quite a wanted and useful mod, which is
why it's not that easily available. :) 

Regards,

Patrick.
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 6:34:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d4t28u$fbo$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

[snippage]

>> So I'm not sure yet. Might sounds OK.
>
>I never played a paladin so far, but if I watch other players I see
>paladins to melee a lot, so I think might is the best choice.

I'm not there yet, so I have some more time to decide... :) 

[OK's]

>Once in nightmare I joined a barbarian who was doing a boss run. (The
>game had a rather strange name, so I didn't know before what he was
>doing. I was just curious.) We ran all busses, including some of the
>minors, and the only time he died was in the chaos sanctuary, iron
>maidened. He was afraid of it, he told me in advance, so I guess he took
>care but yet it happened.
>
>It seems unavoidable. OTOH some days are bad days, and you next tries
>might be more successful.

Actually, the Barbarians shouldn't have complained, because Barbarians
have Berserk, which is another of those 1-point wonders. Even a lvl 1
berserk already deals considerable damage, and since all of it is magic
damage, and is based upon converting all of your physical damage, you
cannot be killed by IM. Of course, Berserk lowers your def to 0, so it's
slow-going, but it's quite workable...

The Paladin, however, has nothing like that. Vengeance only adds elemental
damages, while leaving your physical damage intact, so plenty of chances
of IM. :( 

>> Tried to equip a bow, but that wasn't the solution either.
>
>Unless you have a very good bow, it takes ages to kill them, and OKs
>always come in packs there ... if you have patience, it works, but it's
>not quick.

In 1.09, my Fanatic Zealot packed a Buriza for this, so I'll see if this
is still an option. I also have a few Hellracks packed away somewhere, and
possibly I could also use a Gimmershred with a 1-point conviction aura for
this. Hopefully I have the AR need to make this work...

>> You could also transfer all acquired gold to your highest level character.
>> MF has no impact on gambling, so you should just do it with your highest
>> level one...
>
>I've now gambled almost all my money away ... no luck. Maybe gambling is
>my thing.

And what have you been gambling?

>> Or equip some Gold Find stuff. Some people build characters especially for
>> Gold Finding; I think a very popular one is a Barbarian (since he can dual
>> wield Ali-Baba's).
>
>Is this a promising strategy? The biggest sources of gold seem to be
>armors, wands and staves which all sell for lots of gold.

Actually, with the right amount of Gold Find stuff equipped, rumour has it
you can get 50k gold per Council Member killed in act 3 hell. That's a lot
faster than picking up armours and selling them. :) 

I've never done it myself, but if gambling's your target, this seems quite
workable.

>I sometimes wish chatting was easier in the game. I often want to ask
>players or tell them about something, but there just isn't time to type
>while playing :( 

Especially while playing, out of town, chatting is almost impossible...

Patrick.
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 6:41:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <pan.2005.04.29.11.19.17.216098@sonni.org>,
Sonni Skammelsen <news@sonni.org> wrote:
>On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:08:02 +0200, Patrick Vervoorn wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, a Paladin is not that tough too. Especially because he has
>> relatively little life per point of vit, and also because he misses
>> somethin like Battle Orders.
>
>But he has some other big defense and damage boosters, and paladin shields
>often come with high res on them.
>Cheap dex req for max block, and almost born with 2 frame block, so you
>almost never enters a blocklock.

You have a point which I didn't consider yet. Also, I'm not yet sure about
the entire setup of my Fanatic Zealot. I have on a mule a unique Luna
(forgot it's name) which looks rather promising. The other alternative
would be to rob my Hammerdin of his HoZ, which is probably the second best
option. Best is probably a good Exile shield, but this something I cannot
afford.

>My merc is different, i choose them from the type of paladin i build. Atm
>i have 3 playing paladins and nr. 4 is up for rebuild.
>Smiter using act 3 cold sorc, freezes monsters which is very nice when
>you have to bang them with your shield.
>Zealot using act 1 cold arrow rouge, i'm doing plenty damage to
>everything that isn't PI, and then IM can be a problem too as you wrote
>yourself. She is using wws so when she doesn't fire her cold arrow she
>deal out a little magic damage. This allows me to stand in front of
>monsters and take the beating while she stands back and kills them with
>her bow without any risk of dying to IM.

wws = Witchwild String, I presume? I have a few of those... :)  Upped?
Socketed with what?

This is indeed a novel idea, but levelling up an Act 1 Normal one would be
quite a task, since I'm not near the end of Act 1 NM. :( 

>Holyshocker using act 2 holy freeze, he slows thing down and deal cold
>damage, which means our little party is doing cold, lightning and
>physical damage so we should be able to handle most monsters.
>When i rebuild my avenger he will again use act 2 holy freeze, again to
>slow down monsters and he will do a lot more damage with a level 25
>conviction around.

Plenty of melee Paladin variants are possible, but I'll first try my
Fanatic Zealot.. :) 

>> Tried to equip a bow, but that wasn't the solution either.
>
>I don't like my mercs:) 
>So i stand still and take the beating, which i can handle due to the fast
>block i mentioned before, and use some kind of damage booster and let the
>merc kill.
>If he dies he can be reborn again with no loses.
>I never swing a weapon in CS when doing it solo but let the merc do it
>unless we talking about normal or nm, there i usually uses or bow and
>still can maintian high elemental resists, and if you add enchant to that
>you will have no problem at all.

Where you do get this Enchant from then? Demon Limb? This would indeed be
an option; get a nice bow/x-bow, enchant myself, and off we go. :) 

Regards,

Patrick.
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 7:21:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:41:56 +0200, Patrick Vervoorn wrote:

> In article <pan.2005.04.29.11.19.17.216098@sonni.org>, Sonni Skammelsen
> <news@sonni.org> wrote:
>>On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:08:02 +0200, Patrick Vervoorn wrote:
>>
>>> Unfortunately, a Paladin is not that tough too. Especially because he
>>> has relatively little life per point of vit, and also because he misses
>>> somethin like Battle Orders.
>>
>>But he has some other big defense and damage boosters, and paladin
>>shields often come with high res on them.
>>Cheap dex req for max block, and almost born with 2 frame block, so you
>>almost never enters a blocklock.
>
> You have a point which I didn't consider yet. Also, I'm not yet sure about
> the entire setup of my Fanatic Zealot. I have on a mule a unique Luna
> (forgot it's name) which looks rather promising. The other alternative
> would be to rob my Hammerdin of his HoZ, which is probably the second best
> option. Best is probably a good Exile shield, but this something I cannot
> afford.
>

Both the unique luna and exile requires more dex to retrive 75% than HoZ
and if i remember correct the faster block on those even with faster block
from GA isn't enough to get from 2 frame block to 1 frame block.
So in my opinion there is only one shield for paladins that goes toe to
toe with monsters and that is HoZ, nothing even comes close to it.
HoZ is born with 82% chance to block, and the best you can get on exile is
60% chance to block which means a lot more investment in dex.
Iirc. my zealot who uses HoZ and GA has ~130 points in dex for max block
and still enough AR with fanaticm and zeal to have +80% chance of hitting
with 5 frames per attack and enough CB to get one CB attack per second,
15% from goreriders and 5% from venom grip.
Then he also have good deal of DR with Gaze and String of Ears back up
with ~33% ll.
His resists in hell it 90/90/90/95 which makes him almost immune to
elemental damage.

>>My merc is different, i choose them from the type of paladin i build. Atm
>>i have 3 playing paladins and nr. 4 is up for rebuild. Smiter using act 3
>>cold sorc, freezes monsters which is very nice when you have to bang them
>>with your shield. Zealot using act 1 cold arrow rouge, i'm doing plenty
>>damage to everything that isn't PI, and then IM can be a problem too as
>>you wrote yourself. She is using wws so when she doesn't fire her cold
>>arrow she deal out a little magic damage. This allows me to stand in
>>front of monsters and take the beating while she stands back and kills
>>them with her bow without any risk of dying to IM.
>
> wws = Witchwild String, I presume? I have a few of those... :)  Upped?
> Socketed with what?
>

Yep.
It's not upped, but socketed with 2 amn's for ll.

> This is indeed a novel idea, but levelling up an Act 1 Normal one would be
> quite a task, since I'm not near the end of Act 1 NM. :( 
>

Well i always takes the time for leveling my mercs when i decide which one
i'm going to use, i think it's worth it, and sometimes you get some nice
finds along the way :) 

>>Holyshocker using act 2 holy freeze, he slows thing down and deal cold
>>damage, which means our little party is doing cold, lightning and
>>physical damage so we should be able to handle most monsters. When i
>>rebuild my avenger he will again use act 2 holy freeze, again to slow
>>down monsters and he will do a lot more damage with a level 25 conviction
>>around.
>
> Plenty of melee Paladin variants are possible, but I'll first try my
> Fanatic Zealot.. :) 
>

Also a good starter for a first time paladin player, you can make them
pretty strong, even with some mistakes along the way, and you get the hang
of playing meleers

>>> Tried to equip a bow, but that wasn't the solution either.
>>
>>I don't like my mercs:) 
>>So i stand still and take the beating, which i can handle due to the fast
>>block i mentioned before, and use some kind of damage booster and let the
>>merc kill.
>>If he dies he can be reborn again with no loses. I never swing a weapon
>>in CS when doing it solo but let the merc do it unless we talking about
>>normal or nm, there i usually uses or bow and still can maintian high
>>elemental resists, and if you add enchant to that you will have no
>>problem at all.
>
> Where you do get this Enchant from then? Demon Limb? This would indeed be
> an option; get a nice bow/x-bow, enchant myself, and off we go. :) 
>

I have 2 sets of the d2 discs so i can use my enchantress for that, but
else a demon limb is ok for the job if you have one and can use it.
Else get a friend to do it before you start the run.
I can't do it for you since my plan for playing a little SC in between the
HC games has stopped and my enchantress therefor only is level 22.

--
Sonni
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 8:30:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> In article <d4souv$psb$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>>
>>
>>>That's what happens in Hell. My sorc was also progressing quite nicely
>>>when I first entered Hell, so I got more and more confident. Until I ran
>>>into the first bosspack where the boss was Lightning + Cold immune, and
>>>both immunities could _not_ be broken with the LR wand. I ran a lot for
>>>next minutes, to finally have the merc finish them off one by one.
>>
>>Corpsefire, the zombie boss in the den of evil yesterday spawned as fire
>>immune and cold immune. He killed my merc three times.
>
> Ouch. Looking at other posts (I read all, then started with replying, and
> this is first :)  of yours, it seems he's wearing a Shaftstop.

Yes, I think it dropped in Mephistos Lair from one one of council
members who are there.

> This is in
> itself not a bad armour (the damage reduce is nice), but it has not
> additional resists, and a merc of the level you have, probably has rather
> low resists in Hell?

I must check it. I assume in hell they are all slightly negative with
the exception of fire resistance.

> I'd try to swap out the Shaftstop for something else.

I don't have too many options :) 

> Most of my mercs get
> a Duriel's Shell by default, and when I deem them to weak, my next up
> armour of choice is a nice Duress armour. Fortitude, as discussed before,
> would be even better, but it is a 'tad' expensive. *ehem* :) 
>
> Duress is a nice, cheap (relatively, sorry :)  alternative for Fortitude.

I could try to trade for Duriels shell. I can't afford an Um rune for
Duress, much less the runes for Fortitude.

I could try to find a 3 or 4 socket armor and plug it with Tal, Ort and
Thul to cover the missing resistances. Yet I have nothing close to the
600+ defense that Shaftstop has.

>>Finally I shocked him to death with static field and spamming charged
>>bolts. I can say at that point I was happy to have them! Otherwise I'd
>>have had to restart the game and try to do the quest again, in the hope
>>to get a easier combination.
>
> This is the big problem with dual-tree sorcs; on encountering a
> dual-immune, you're in trouble. And this is where the preference for
> probably a Cold/Fire sorc comes from, because only the Lightning tree has
> a 1-point wonder which does considerable damage to a Cold/Fire immune:
> Static Field again! :) 

I was also surprised that my famous charged bolts showed an effect on
the health bar. But the mana burn when spamming charged bolts is
incredible - at least they have a really fast cast rate.

> However, I really think you should try to acquire a wand with Lower
> Resists charges on it (I have one on a mule somewhere, which has 70+ lvl 2
> charges you can have for free). Once you break even one of the immunities
> on the monster, you'll see it going down really quickly.

It looks like they could be purchased from shops?
OTOH I won't say "no" if we meet again and you lend me your spare wand :) 

> A math example of this, where I assume we encounter a Cold/Fire immune
> monster, and where a lvl 2 Lower resists charge removes both immunities,
> bringing them to 95%. Also, the sorc has a Cold spell doing 100 dmg and a
> fire spell doing 100 dmg. The sorc also has Cold Mastery, which remove 75%
> resists, and Fire mastery which adds 200% damage (i.e., triples the fire
> spell dmg to 300).
>
> OK, for fire, we get:
>
> 300 dmg - (300 x 0.95) = 15. You only deal 15 damage to the monster
>
> For cold, we get:
>
> 100 dmg - (100 x (0.95 - 0.75) ) = 100 - (100 x 0.2) = 80.
>
> So as you can see, Cold spells are much more powerful on broken immunities
> than the other spells, and is another reason why Frozen Orb is liked so
> much: for relatively few points, you get a very powerful spell.

Well, we can still reconsider our fire/lightning idea :) 

You play a lot alone, so you need a build that is somewhat universal. I
usually play with other people, so weaknesses of a single character are
not so apparent as long as the party as a whole covers everything.

Cold mastery has very unique benefits. If we want them, we can't build
something without a powerful cold spell.

You know, my sorceress started as charged bolt/fire wall and I changed
my mind later to fire wall/frozen orb. There was a reason, but I mostly
looked at he freezing effects. Now knowing about cold mastery it seems
even more sensible to use cold spells :) 

>>While questing in hell, I first spend the planned 10 stat points on
>>vitality, then stepwise all saved points except the reserved 100. This
>>gives me 606 life, still not much, but much better than before.
>
> At least these are numbers where Hell should be doable, and you are at
> least not one-hit killed, unless you encounter something nasty Extra
> Strong, Spectral Hit, Cold/Fire Enchanted or something.

I just need to be a bit careful. A bit of a problem is if other players
join the game and want to go somwhere, where I think we can't survive.

Too often I told them it's too hard, then they say "C'mon we can do it",
then I don't want to ruin it and go with them, and a few minutes later
we're dead.

I figure the problem is that my characters are weak compared to their
levels. Level 77 and 81 seems to indicate quite some power, so the other
players don't understand that I'm rather serious if I say it's too hard.

>>Skill points will now all go into cold mastery and fire mastery. FO
>>became noticeable stronger, fire wall is reliable if monsters don't move
>>to fast.
>
> See above. Especially CM is much more powerful than it seems at first
> look.

Yes, I completely mis-guessed the effects. I'm now spending all further
points on CM which gives the biggest advantage.

>>I think your preference of fire ball is a good choice. Fire wall is
>>quite useless in some cases, and if the opponents are cold immune, I
>>can't do much.
>
> Well, Fire Ball also is supposed to do splash damage, so you can spam it a
> lot, and also damage groups with it. It sounds like fun, I just need time
> to level up another sorc, and from my experience it's quite boring until
> you start to unlock your main skills. However, with a Fireball sorc, the
> tactic is to start pumping Firebolt, and after that, Fire ball, as soon as
> you can, since they're both synergies you want to max.
>
> With an FO/CL sorc, you don't want to spend too many points in the
> lower-level skills, and since FO only becomes available at lvl30, and the
> lightning spells eat lots of mana, it's quite a struggle until about 30. I
> managed to get along with some rare orbs, with +1 to nice skills, like for
> instance Blizzard. In Act 3/4 normal, a low level blizzard still does
> quite nice damage.

Fire bolt (Snyergy for fire ball) is available at lvl 1 and you may pump
it up all the way to level 12, if you want. You'll want to max it
anyways. So you can start easily.

Chain lightning comes at 18, when you have to split the point between
fire ball and the lightning tree.

But it looks like an easy start and continuously growing power
throughout all levels.

>>>I like the sound of that! :)  But I'm afraid I need too much skill points
>>>if I want to have powerful, direct-damage spells in both the fire
>>>(fireball) and lightning (chain lightning/lightning) trees.
>>
>>It depends. I think it won't be worse than another dual-tree sorceress.
>>
>>In case of fireball, synergies seem to have more effect than mastery.
>>
>>20 Fire bolt
>>20 Fire ball
>> 1 Fire mastery
>>
>>Results in fire balls of 985 - 1118 (ø1052) damage
>
> Actually, I think you also want to max Fire Mastery here, because the
> damage increase is very noticable. I don't have a Fireball sorc guide
> read, but your numbers above look rather low. Maxed Fire Mastery will
> raise this quite a bit, I think?

Yes, it will. I started with the idea of distributing about 80 points,
and trying to get the most out of it with an sensible split among fire
and lightning. With only 41 points the above is the best combination.

If you have more points to spend (or take them from somewhere, but not
fire bolt) yoo can raise the damage quite a bit.

> The guide I read, suggested maxing Fire bolt, Fire Ball and FM, and also
> some points in Meteor, if/when available.

If you can spend 60+ points on the fire tree, this is a good idea.

OTOH if you start with my suggestion, you get the most out of the first
40 points, and still can upgrde by adding to FM and meteor later.

>>Lightning seems to dominated by mastery.
>>
>>20 chain lightning
>>20 lightning mastery
>>
>>Results in 3 - 1147 (ø575) damage (I believe per branch of CL)
>
> Also very low. I don't know the numbers of my FO/CL sorc, but she has
> maxed CL and LM, and has quite a few points in Lightning, and deals, I
> think, considerably more damage than the above.

Each point in lightning will add 4% damage, according to the calculator.

Again the question is how many points you can spend. Withing the 40/40
limit that I used you can't get more out of chain lightning, I think.

>>In addition you'll need a few prerequisites, a point in warmth, static
>>field, teleport (the usual support spells).
>
> Yup. But again this sorc is totally hosed if you encounter a
> Fire/Lightning immune, because you have no cold damage to speak of.

Yes. Finally you just don't have enough skill points to max three
elements, actually not even for two.

>>So it seems you can finish the build roughly around clvl 84 depending
>>how many of the skill giving quests you can finish while the character
>>grows :) 
>>
>>After that you can pump up both spells by adding to fire mastery and
>>lightning or charged bolt. The calculation above was done without +skills.
>>
>>If you have +8 skills, you get:
>>
>>Chain lightning: 4 - 2052 (ø1028.5)
>>Fire ball: 2307 - 2555 (ø2431)
>>
>>This doesn't look too bad. I think I should try this by myself. We'll
>>have twins, if we stick to the plan :) 
>
> :)  While I like the numbers, I find it worrying there's no cold damage
> included. ;) 

Hehe. A few lines above you wnated to spend more points on synergies and
masteries to get more power to the spells. That's ok. Now you want a
backup in case of double immunes. That's ok, too.

Just, you can't have both ;) 

If we advance from a few more levels (say 94 and all quests) you can
distribute a total of 105 points (IIRC).

My example used 86 (88?) points so can think about the other 16 (18?)
points.

FO+CM as backup?
Further max one of the trees?

Both possible. I'd try a 1/1 or so in FO/CM, a few in lightning, and put
the rest in fire mastery.

>>I've used this calculator:
>>http://diablo2.ingame.de/spiel/skills/calc/index.php?ch...
>>
>>(It's a german page, I don't know how useful this is for you).
>
> Ich spreche und rede ein bisschen Deutsch, so I think I can manage. :) 

Gut. Der Rechner ist wirklich hilfreich :) 

Yet, I don't know if the results are always 100% correct. But so far I
saw no mistakes.

> Regards,
> Patrick.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 9:15:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d4tgea$j9d$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>
>> Ouch. Looking at other posts (I read all, then started with replying, and
>> this is first :)  of yours, it seems he's wearing a Shaftstop.
>
>Yes, I think it dropped in Mephistos Lair from one one of council
>members who are there.

It's a nice armor, hold on to it. :) 

>I must check it. I assume in hell they are all slightly negative with
>the exception of fire resistance.

Hmmm, while the merc may be in a bit of trouble resists-wise in Hell, I
don't think they'll be negative. :) 

>> I'd try to swap out the Shaftstop for something else.
>
>I don't have too many options :) 

I know, but I wanted to make the suggestion nonetheless. :) 

>> Duress is a nice, cheap (relatively, sorry :)  alternative for Fortitude.
>
>I could try to trade for Duriels shell. I can't afford an Um rune for
>Duress, much less the runes for Fortitude.

I understand completely. Anyway, I have some spare Duriel's Shells on my
mules. These aren't the best ones (they are on my mercs), but they're
better than nothing... Next time we meet, remind me to pull one of a mule.

>I could try to find a 3 or 4 socket armor and plug it with Tal, Ort and
>Thul to cover the missing resistances. Yet I have nothing close to the
>600+ defense that Shaftstop has.

That's also a cheap option. Also, the defense on a merc isn't that
important, in my opinion. Better get his resists up, and loose some
defense in the process, than the other way around. Also, the damage
reduction in Shaftstop only works for physical damage, not for elemental
dmg.

>> This is the big problem with dual-tree sorcs; on encountering a
>> dual-immune, you're in trouble. And this is where the preference for
>> probably a Cold/Fire sorc comes from, because only the Lightning tree has
>> a 1-point wonder which does considerable damage to a Cold/Fire immune:
>> Static Field again! :) 
>
>I was also surprised that my famous charged bolts showed an effect on
>the health bar. But the mana burn when spamming charged bolts is
>incredible - at least they have a really fast cast rate.

A lot of those bolts were probably hitting him. And the Charged Bolt mana
burn is nothing compared to that of CL. :) 

>> However, I really think you should try to acquire a wand with Lower
>> Resists charges on it (I have one on a mule somewhere, which has 70+ lvl 2
>> charges you can have for free). Once you break even one of the immunities
>> on the monster, you'll see it going down really quickly.
>
>It looks like they could be purchased from shops?

Yes, that's where I got mine. Just browse around a bit in the Hell shops,
I got most of mine from Hell Akara.

>OTOH I won't say "no" if we meet again and you lend me your spare wand :) 

If you haven't shopped one by then, include that request, and I'll dig it
up. (BTW, bring plenty of gold when shopping, because if you're unlucky,
the wand will also have some necro skills on it, which will raise the
price to something like 200-300k gold. Nothing as sad as entering/leaving
Akara's shop, finally seeing that lower resists wand, and not having the
gold to buy one! :) 

[Math snipped]

>Well, we can still reconsider our fire/lightning idea :) 

Which is why i was questioning the fire/lightning sorc. :) 

>You play a lot alone, so you need a build that is somewhat universal. I
>usually play with other people, so weaknesses of a single character are
>not so apparent as long as the party as a whole covers everything.

Yup, that's probably the reason...

>Cold mastery has very unique benefits. If we want them, we can't build
>something without a powerful cold spell.

Exactly, which is why it's so very tempting to include FO in every sorc
build... :) 

>You know, my sorceress started as charged bolt/fire wall and I changed
>my mind later to fire wall/frozen orb. There was a reason, but I mostly
> looked at he freezing effects. Now knowing about cold mastery it seems
>even more sensible to use cold spells :) 

I think you made the right choice, if your plan is to make a more
universal sorceress.

>I just need to be a bit careful. A bit of a problem is if other players
>join the game and want to go somwhere, where I think we can't survive.
>
>Too often I told them it's too hard, then they say "C'mon we can do it",
> then I don't want to ruin it and go with them, and a few minutes later
>we're dead.
>
>I figure the problem is that my characters are weak compared to their
>levels. Level 77 and 81 seems to indicate quite some power, so the other
>players don't understand that I'm rather serious if I say it's too hard.

Nah, I don't think that's your problem, it's most probably (also) their
problem: they don't really know how to play. Lots of player are also
simply rushed through the game by some very-high-level, superbly equipped
rusher character, so they end up with all waypoints and all quests
complete, but once they step out alone, they're killed within seconds
because they were 'shielded' during the rush.

>> See above. Especially CM is much more powerful than it seems at first
>> look.
>
>Yes, I completely mis-guessed the effects. I'm now spending all further
>points on CM which gives the biggest advantage.

Don't neglect boosting your fire damage! :) 

>Fire bolt (Snyergy for fire ball) is available at lvl 1 and you may pump
>it up all the way to level 12, if you want. You'll want to max it
>anyways. So you can start easily.

That's how the Fireball guides state it: simply start pumping fire bolt
from the beginning, switch to Fire ball once that becomes available, and
keep pumping them until your other options are available (with an FB/FO
sorc, that's at lvl 30 when FO becomes available). Normal is supposedly a
breeze doing this.

>Chain lightning comes at 18, when you have to split the point between
>fire ball and the lightning tree.

It looks interesting on paper, but when I made my sorc, the big problem
with chain lightning (or the plain lightning for that) is that they use up
a _LOT_ of mana. You can spam them rapidly, and when my sorc became lvl
18, and I spent my first point in CL, I quickly noticed I could only fire
a few CL's before running out of mana. Not good.

So I then switched to a simple, orb-granted, Blizzard, which killed a lot
more quickly and also cost much less mana.

It's only now that I'm something like lvl82 or something, that I can spam
a powerful enough CL, to quickly kill monsters and can also keep it up...

>But it looks like an easy start and continuously growing power
>throughout all levels.

Try it out, I'm curious as to your experiences: you needs lot of mana to
use CL... And this simply is not available at level 18-~40,50... So you
need to drink a lot of mana potions...

>Yes, it will. I started with the idea of distributing about 80 points,
>and trying to get the most out of it with an sensible split among fire
>and lightning. With only 41 points the above is the best combination.
>
>If you have more points to spend (or take them from somewhere, but not
>fire bolt) yoo can raise the damage quite a bit.

OK, I now understand what you're trying to do, and agree.

>> The guide I read, suggested maxing Fire bolt, Fire Ball and FM, and also
>> some points in Meteor, if/when available.
>
>If you can spend 60+ points on the fire tree, this is a good idea.
>
>OTOH if you start with my suggestion, you get the most out of the first
>40 points, and still can upgrde by adding to FM and meteor later.

The guide I was referring to was an FO/FB one, so that means you only
spend about 20-30 points in a FO/CM, and 60+ points in the fire tree.

>> Also very low. I don't know the numbers of my FO/CL sorc, but she has
>> maxed CL and LM, and has quite a few points in Lightning, and deals, I
>> think, considerably more damage than the above.
>
>Each point in lightning will add 4% damage, according to the calculator.
>
>Again the question is how many points you can spend. Withing the 40/40
>limit that I used you can't get more out of chain lightning, I think.

Exactly, and this is precisely the reason I'm questioning why a
Lightning/Fire sorc is going to work: you simply need too many points to
get a potent spell out of both of them. So it's one, or the other, and
then you get to FO/CM for your backup skill, with SF as a cheap 3rd
backup.

Of course, the challenge is in the Fire/Lightning sorc, not in the rather
standard FO/CB build. :) 

>> Yup. But again this sorc is totally hosed if you encounter a
>> Fire/Lightning immune, because you have no cold damage to speak of.
>
>Yes. Finally you just don't have enough skill points to max three
>elements, actually not even for two.

Yup, which is why you need to start making compromises, and could end up
with two fizzlers of attacks. :) 

>> :)  While I like the numbers, I find it worrying there's no cold damage
>> included. ;) 
>
>Hehe. A few lines above you wnated to spend more points on synergies and
>masteries to get more power to the spells. That's ok. Now you want a
>backup in case of double immunes. That's ok, too.

Heh. ;)  I wasn't trying to reach the impossible, I was trying to make
clear that maybe a Fire/Lightning sorc is a bit of a problematic build to
make powerful.

I've also read plenty of guides which descrive a _single_ tree sorc, which
is a sorc that has to play in teams, because while she is _very_ powerful
in one element (a fully maxed and synergized Blizzard, or meteor, or
firewall is extremely powerful), she's in big trouble once she runs into
an immune monster.

So the next step is dual-tree, and there you're quickly locked in only a
few options.

>Just, you can't have both ;) 

Exactly. :) 

>If we advance from a few more levels (say 94 and all quests) you can
>distribute a total of 105 points (IIRC).
>
>My example used 86 (88?) points so can think about the other 16 (18?)
>points.
>
>FO+CM as backup?
>Further max one of the trees?
>
>Both possible. I'd try a 1/1 or so in FO/CM, a few in lightning, and put
>the rest in fire mastery.

No, 1/1 FO/CM is not going to work I think.

What I'm thinkg of is:

20/15 FO/CM (35)
20/20/20 FB/FB/FM (60)
1/1/1 SF/Tel/Warmth (3)

Prerequisites I don't know off the top of my head, so I'll assume 5, so
the above would cost about 35 + 60 + 3 + 5 = 103 points. Hmm. Difficult,
but doable, and already quite potent, even before doing it exactly like
that.

The above is more or less what I'm thinking off with my FB/??? (where ???
is probably FO again) sorceress.

Lightning is fun, but needs ~50 points to become potent (maxed LM+CL, and
some points in LI). So Lightning can also only be combined with FO again.

>> Ich spreche und rede ein bisschen Deutsch, so I think I can manage. :) 
>
>Gut. Der Rechner ist wirklich hilfreich :) 
>
>Yet, I don't know if the results are always 100% correct. But so far I
>saw no mistakes.

I'll check the site soon. :) 

Regards,

Patrick.
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 3:43:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Patrick Vervoorn wrote::

> In article <d4tgea$j9d$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>>
>>
>>>Ouch. Looking at other posts (I read all, then started with replying, and
>>>this is first :)  of yours, it seems he's wearing a Shaftstop.

[...]

>>I could try to trade for Duriels shell. I can't afford an Um rune for
>>Duress, much less the runes for Fortitude.

I got a Duriels shell from a thankful player whom I had rushed a bit. (I
didn't ask for it, it was just luck.) Now my sorceress' merc is wearing
duriels shell and the shaftstop was given to my assassins merc.

My sorceress merc still can't use the bonehew, although he catched up as
much as possible, he's now lvl 78 while my sorc is lvl 79. I think a
socketed helm with one or two flawless or perfect amethysts could solve
the problem, but I didn't try that yet.

> I understand completely. Anyway, I have some spare Duriel's Shells on my
> mules. These aren't the best ones (they are on my mercs), but they're
> better than nothing... Next time we meet, remind me to pull one of a mule.

Thanks, but this weekend I was just lucky :) 

>>I could try to find a 3 or 4 socket armor and plug it with Tal, Ort and
>>Thul to cover the missing resistances. Yet I have nothing close to the
>>600+ defense that Shaftstop has.
>
> That's also a cheap option. Also, the defense on a merc isn't that
> important, in my opinion. Better get his resists up, and loose some
> defense in the process, than the other way around.

In a muling attempt I lost a lot of runes yesterday. It's been the first
time that a game stopped to exist during a character change. The game
was not quite new, I already had muled a few things between characters -
only a pile of runes were left for my rune mule, and when I tried to
bring him in, the game was gone.

Which means that I'm currently very short on runes, the rune mule was
made just for keeping them and not yet filled.

I'll watch out for a 4 socket armor. In the meantime I hope to find a
few more of the low level runes.

Found a Dol in nightmare WSK yesterday. Don't laugh, that my highest
self-found rune so far ;) 

[CL/FB Sorceress build idea]

>>Well, we can still reconsider our fire/lightning idea :) 
>
> Which is why i was questioning the fire/lightning sorc. :) 

My sorc grew to clvl 22 now, and it's getting time to decide which way
to go. So far I put all points in the fire tree, and fire ball is
really strong.

Now I must decide if I go for CL/LM or FO/CM as secondary spell combo.

I can defer the decision until clvl ~40 but I think I should start to
build the second element a bit earlier to have a backup in case o
immunes that can appear in nightmare already.

>>Cold mastery has very unique benefits. If we want them, we can't build
>>something without a powerful cold spell.
>
> Exactly, which is why it's so very tempting to include FO in every sorc
> build... :) 

We both have sorceresses who play fairly well even in the later areas of
the game (yours a bit better, mine a little worse).

We can try to use the experience to build even stronger characters, or
we can try to build something new.

I'm really undecided. I'm afarid that FB/CL will be too weak, and I have
to abandon the character soon. I'm afraid that FB/FO will be too strong
and my new sorc could outperform my beloved FW/FO sorc, finally taking
her place.

Maybe I shouldn't start so many new characters?

>>Yes, I completely mis-guessed the effects. I'm now spending all further
>>points on CM which gives the biggest advantage.
>
> Don't neglect boosting your fire damage! :) 

I always wait for two skill points then put them 1:1 in fire and cold
mastery (I do it this way, becuase I'm afraid I'd not split them 1:1 if
I spend them each level).

FO is now somewhere ~330 damage/shard, CM lowers resistence by 60% and
fire wall does 4.9k damage per second (this includes + skill effects
from my equipment).

Act1/hell is fairly easy now, act 2 is ok. I don't play much in act 3
currently, and act 5 provides some real problems. Sometimes there are
archers of the burning dead as guest monsters in the bloody foothills,
and they usually kill my merc quicker than I can kill them, and then I
have to run ... I guess the spearcats will be the same.

I will see. There is room to grow. I still level reasonably, fire
mastery needs two or three more points to be maxed, and cold mastery has
a lot of room for improvement, yet I don't expect to get enough skill
points to max it.

Compared to my assassin which is pretty much stuck, despite excellent
gear, my sorc is doing fairly well and has a lot of upgrade options
gear-wise.

I'm gambling coronets. I gambled a few with + 1 skills, but none for
sorcress skills. So I keep hunting for money, running some minor bosses
for items and then gambling the money away on coronets.

>>Fire bolt (Snyergy for fire ball) is available at lvl 1 and you may pump
>>it up all the way to level 12, if you want. You'll want to max it
>>anyways. So you can start easily.
>
> That's how the Fireball guides state it: simply start pumping fire bolt
> from the beginning, switch to Fire ball once that becomes available, and
> keep pumping them until your other options are available (with an FB/FO
> sorc, that's at lvl 30 when FO becomes available). Normal is supposedly a
> breeze doing this.

It is. FB is incredibly strong in the early ares. I'm lvl 22 and can
almost fight my way through the chaos sanctuary solo.

The only problem is mana. I tried to live on base energy as adived by
some sorceress guides. I gave her a lot of +mana items (+20 on amulet,
+17 on rings, +31 on armor, +17 on helm, +7 on shield, +24 on orb and a
few +mana charms). Yet, fire balls fire so rapidly that after a short
while she's out of mana and need to drink a blue potion. Fights are
burst fights, she can take down hordes of monsters quickly but needs
time to recover between fights.

Currently I think base energy is too restrictive, and I'll put a few
points in it, maybe boosting it to 50 and see how that works.

>>Chain lightning comes at 18, when you have to split the point between
>>fire ball and the lightning tree.
>
> It looks interesting on paper, but when I made my sorc, the big problem
> with chain lightning (or the plain lightning for that) is that they use up
> a _LOT_ of mana. You can spam them rapidly, and when my sorc became lvl
> 18, and I spent my first point in CL, I quickly noticed I could only fire
> a few CL's before running out of mana. Not good.

Hmmm ... this doesn't exactly give me a lot of hope.

> It's only now that I'm something like lvl82 or something, that I can spam
> a powerful enough CL, to quickly kill monsters and can also keep it up...

You build you sorc with low energy but a lot of +mana/+energy items,
some of which are not suitable for low level characters. This is a
promising strategy for the late game, but of course hard in the early
levels.

>>But it looks like an easy start and continuously growing power
>>throughout all levels.
>
> Try it out, I'm curious as to your experiences: you needs lot of mana to
> use CL... And this simply is not available at level 18-~40,50... So you
> need to drink a lot of mana potions...

I started with FB, and most likely FB will be my main weapon to the very
end of normal. I'll build the secondary spell 1:1 with skill points
(alternating between FB and the secondary spell) but most likely not use
it much unless there are quite some points accumulated.

>>If you can spend 60+ points on the fire tree, this is a good idea.
>>
>>OTOH if you start with my suggestion, you get the most out of the first
>>40 points, and still can upgrde by adding to FM and meteor later.
>
> The guide I was referring to was an FO/FB one, so that means you only
> spend about 20-30 points in a FO/CM, and 60+ points in the fire tree.

I need to sum them up first, but I think my fire wall/frozen orb sorc
has already more than 30 points in cold skill. FO needs a lot of
prerequisites (6 I believe) so that 30 points only mean 24 for FO/CM
itself. Even if FO is strong, this will limit it's use quite a bit.

OTOH you get a very strong fire ball this way. Unless you run into a lot
of fire immunes (but they are said to be the most numerous), you'll have
a very strong sorceress.

Fire wall is easy on the skill points. It just needs two prerequisites,
and has no synergies, so you can max it out with ~42 total points in the
fire spell tree.

>>>Also very low. I don't know the numbers of my FO/CL sorc, but she has
>>>maxed CL and LM, and has quite a few points in Lightning, and deals, I
>>>think, considerably more damage than the above.
>>
>>Each point in lightning will add 4% damage, according to the calculator.
>>
>>Again the question is how many points you can spend. Withing the 40/40
>>limit that I used you can't get more out of chain lightning, I think.
>
> Exactly, and this is precisely the reason I'm questioning why a
> Lightning/Fire sorc is going to work: you simply need too many points to
> get a potent spell out of both of them. So it's one, or the other, and
> then you get to FO/CM for your backup skill, with SF as a cheap 3rd
> backup.

I'm afraid a tri-elemental build will not be possible if FB+synergies
and CL+synergies are chosen as primary and secondary attacks.

> Of course, the challenge is in the Fire/Lightning sorc, not in the rather
> standard FO/CB build. :) 

Right. The only question is, if we want to accept the challenge, or
chicken and go to the easy way of FO/CM + additional spells :) 

>>Yes. Finally you just don't have enough skill points to max three
>>elements, actually not even for two.
>
> Yup, which is why you need to start making compromises, and could end up
> with two fizzlers of attacks. :) 

This reminds me "The specialist learns more and more about a smaller and
smaller area, until he knows everything about nothing. The generalist
knows lees and lees about a bigger and bigger ares until he knows
nothing nothing about everything"

Obviously both extremes are not desireable. The question is, which kind
of compromise is good for us? Finally there even might be different
'best' solutions for different players.

> Heh. ;)  I wasn't trying to reach the impossible, I was trying to make
> clear that maybe a Fire/Lightning sorc is a bit of a problematic build to
> make powerful.

The monster library at the arreat summit pages says that many monsters
have lower lightning resists than fire or cold resists. We should not
only look at the damage, but also how many monsters we can hurt, and how
badly we can hurt them. Lightning doesn't look so bad overall, even if
the total damage numbers are not as impressive as for fire.

Maybe Blizzard tried to balance the spells and the monsters, just many
players don't know the numbers and therefore simply choose the attacks
that sum up to the biggest figure?

> I've also read plenty of guides which descrive a _single_ tree sorc, which
> is a sorc that has to play in teams, because while she is _very_ powerful
> in one element (a fully maxed and synergized Blizzard, or meteor, or
> firewall is extremely powerful), she's in big trouble once she runs into
> an immune monster.

It's good for clan players. Not for us, becuase we never know of what
characters the next party in the next game will consist. Alsom, the more
we want to play solo, the more we need versatile characters.

So a single-tree sorceress is no option for me. Dual-tree is my
compromise. Tri-elemental might be possible with a very careful
selection of spells, particularly in terms of prerequisites. Overall I
doubt the doability. My fire wall/frozen orb/charged bolt sorceress
suffers too much from the 13 points that went into the charged
bolt/lightning mastery, and only once(!) so far charged bolt was needed
to kill a double-immune boss.

I'd really advice against a three elemental build, unless you can do
magic with only a few skill points, like static field.

> So the next step is dual-tree, and there you're quickly locked in only a
> few options.

I think it's not so few, just considering the attack spells:

Fire ball/fire wall/meteor are all fine fire spells.
Charged bolt and chain lightning are both nice.
Frozen orb and blizzard are also both nice.

So this is 3*2*2 = 12 spells out of which you choose two from different
trees, so you have 12 options with theses spells.

How about nova? It also seems a cheap option in the lightning tree, and
could be used as well as charged bolt?

>>If we advance from a few more levels (say 94 and all quests) you can
>>distribute a total of 105 points (IIRC).

> What I'm thinkg of is:
>
> 20/15 FO/CM (35)
> 20/20/20 FB/FB/FM (60)
> 1/1/1 SF/Tel/Warmth (3)
>
> Prerequisites I don't know off the top of my head, so I'll assume 5, so
> the above would cost about 35 + 60 + 3 + 5 = 103 points. Hmm. Difficult,
> but doable, and already quite potent, even before doing it exactly like
> that.

Yes, that'll be very effective in both fire and cold damage. If I decide
against lightning, I'll try this.

> Lightning is fun, but needs ~50 points to become potent (maxed LM+CL, and
> some points in LI). So Lightning can also only be combined with FO again.

Ok, so we should abandon the idea of a fire/lightning sorc ?

> Regards,
> Patrick.

--
c.u. Hajo
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 6:53:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d54sp4$d33$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>
>I got a Duriels shell from a thankful player whom I had rushed a bit. (I
>didn't ask for it, it was just luck.) Now my sorceress' merc is wearing
>duriels shell and the shaftstop was given to my assassins merc.
>
>My sorceress merc still can't use the bonehew, although he catched up as
>much as possible, he's now lvl 78 while my sorc is lvl 79. I think a
>socketed helm with one or two flawless or perfect amethysts could solve
>the problem, but I didn't try that yet.

Congrats! At least with the added +Str from Duriels, the bonehew has
gotten closer. ;) 

>In a muling attempt I lost a lot of runes yesterday. It's been the first
>time that a game stopped to exist during a character change. The game
>was not quite new, I already had muled a few things between characters -
>only a pile of runes were left for my rune mule, and when I tried to
>bring him in, the game was gone.
>
>Which means that I'm currently very short on runes, the rune mule was
>made just for keeping them and not yet filled.

Aiii... That's unfortunate. And it's an event like this (I think I lost a
pair or +2 Marrowalks and possibly a bonehew) that made me decide to get
another set of LOD/D2.

Does this also mean you lost all your Ral runes? :( 

>I'll watch out for a 4 socket armor. In the meantime I hope to find a
>few more of the low level runes.
>
>Found a Dol in nightmare WSK yesterday. Don't laugh, that my highest
>self-found rune so far ;) 

It's still nice to find a rune like that, also for me. I mean, if it's the
higher runes you want (From about Pul-Ist/Gul) you should do Hell
Hellforge rushes...

>> Which is why i was questioning the fire/lightning sorc. :) 
>
>My sorc grew to clvl 22 now, and it's getting time to decide which way
>to go. So far I put all points in the fire tree, and fire ball is
>really strong.

Sounds nice then. OK.

>I can defer the decision until clvl ~40 but I think I should start to
>build the second element a bit earlier to have a backup in case o
>immunes that can appear in nightmare already.

Yup, seems like a smart move. You could of course postpone it a bit more,
and at least get Static Field; you want that in any case...

>We both have sorceresses who play fairly well even in the later areas of
>the game (yours a bit better, mine a little worse).

That's probably because I haven't really misplaced any points.

>We can try to use the experience to build even stronger characters, or
>we can try to build something new.

Like I said, I'm not sure a Fire/Lightning sorc is that new. It probably
has been tried when 1.10 got out, and maybe deemed a bit weak... Which is
why you see few guides describing one.

>I'm really undecided. I'm afarid that FB/CL will be too weak, and I have
>to abandon the character soon. I'm afraid that FB/FO will be too strong
>and my new sorc could outperform my beloved FW/FO sorc, finally taking
>her place.
>
>Maybe I shouldn't start so many new characters?

:)  Can't help you there!

[sorc update read, but snipped]

>I will see. There is room to grow. I still level reasonably, fire
>mastery needs two or three more points to be maxed, and cold mastery has
>a lot of room for improvement, yet I don't expect to get enough skill
>points to max it.
>
>Compared to my assassin which is pretty much stuck, despite excellent
>gear, my sorc is doing fairly well and has a lot of upgrade options
>gear-wise.

Sounds good, this sorc should be able to solo the largest parts of hell.

>I'm gambling coronets. I gambled a few with + 1 skills, but none for
>sorcress skills. So I keep hunting for money, running some minor bosses
>for items and then gambling the money away on coronets.

Keep it up, I think you already can get every possible modifier on those
gambled coronets there are. And if you ever gamble a blue diadem or tiara
with 3 sockets and a second mod: don't sell it for gold, but keep it!!

Some of those are _very_ valuable, though I didn't know that at first
either.

>> That's how the Fireball guides state it: simply start pumping fire bolt
>> from the beginning, switch to Fire ball once that becomes available, and
>> keep pumping them until your other options are available (with an FB/FO
>> sorc, that's at lvl 30 when FO becomes available). Normal is supposedly a
>> breeze doing this.
>
>It is. FB is incredibly strong in the early ares. I'm lvl 22 and can
>almost fight my way through the chaos sanctuary solo.

Sounds good. And the way it should be; a sorc should have no problems
there...

>The only problem is mana. I tried to live on base energy as adived by
>some sorceress guides. I gave her a lot of +mana items (+20 on amulet,
>+17 on rings, +31 on armor, +17 on helm, +7 on shield, +24 on orb and a
>few +mana charms). Yet, fire balls fire so rapidly that after a short
>while she's out of mana and need to drink a blue potion. Fights are
>burst fights, she can take down hordes of monsters quickly but needs
>time to recover between fights.
>
>Currently I think base energy is too restrictive, and I'll put a few
>points in it, maybe boosting it to 50 and see how that works.

Well, my advice would be to NOT do this, but it's your character, and if
you're not going to trade/acquire any of the +mana items, you might have a
hard time, and some energy could be handy then.

Keep in mind these are then points you will never be able to invest in for
instance Str, to equip a Spirit Monarch (which adds ~100 mana of it's
own), and adds numerous other benefits, which might outweigh the 50 points
in energy..:

50 Ene: 50 x 3 = 150 mana added
Spirit Shield: ~100 mana, FCR, 35 psn/cold/lit res, +2 skills, etc.

(Of course, a monarch needs a lot more investment of str... :) 

>> a _LOT_ of mana. You can spam them rapidly, and when my sorc became lvl
>> 18, and I spent my first point in CL, I quickly noticed I could only fire
>> a few CL's before running out of mana. Not good.
>
>Hmmm ... this doesn't exactly give me a lot of hope.

I was at that moment guzzling blue pots like crazy. But the earlier levels
are the most difficult for a sorc, especially if you're not going to spend
points in energy, and use equipment to get mana...

In the end, it's more than worth it, I think...

>You build you sorc with low energy but a lot of +mana/+energy items,
>some of which are not suitable for low level characters. This is a
>promising strategy for the late game, but of course hard in the early
>levels.

Yep. But see above: worth it I think.

>I need to sum them up first, but I think my fire wall/frozen orb sorc
>has already more than 30 points in cold skill. FO needs a lot of
>prerequisites (6 I believe) so that 30 points only mean 24 for FO/CM
>itself. Even if FO is strong, this will limit it's use quite a bit.

But it's powerful and cheap compared to the alternatives...

>OTOH you get a very strong fire ball this way. Unless you run into a lot
>of fire immunes (but they are said to be the most numerous), you'll have
>a very strong sorceress.
>
>Fire wall is easy on the skill points. It just needs two prerequisites,
>and has no synergies, so you can max it out with ~42 total points in the
>fire spell tree.

I've also heard very good things about Meteor and Blizzard, so those might
be options too... (Just to add more confusion... :) 

>> Exactly, and this is precisely the reason I'm questioning why a
>> Lightning/Fire sorc is going to work: you simply need too many points to
>> get a potent spell out of both of them. So it's one, or the other, and
>> then you get to FO/CM for your backup skill, with SF as a cheap 3rd
>> backup.
>
>I'm afraid a tri-elemental build will not be possible if FB+synergies
>and CL+synergies are chosen as primary and secondary attacks.

Not with a classic build, possibly when using the synergy bug/trick I
wrote about, and which was also mentioned a lot longer ago here.
That would be quite a challenge. ;) 

>Right. The only question is, if we want to accept the challenge, or
>chicken and go to the easy way of FO/CM + additional spells :) 

I think I'm going to try the FO/FB route, but don't let that discourage
you... :) 

>> Yup, which is why you need to start making compromises, and could end up
>> with two fizzlers of attacks. :) 
>
>This reminds me "The specialist learns more and more about a smaller and
>smaller area, until he knows everything about nothing. The generalist
>knows lees and lees about a bigger and bigger ares until he knows
>nothing nothing about everything"

Yup. Very true in D2 also...

>The monster library at the arreat summit pages says that many monsters
>have lower lightning resists than fire or cold resists. We should not
>only look at the damage, but also how many monsters we can hurt, and how
>badly we can hurt them. Lightning doesn't look so bad overall, even if
>the total damage numbers are not as impressive as for fire.
>
>Maybe Blizzard tried to balance the spells and the monsters, just many
>players don't know the numbers and therefore simply choose the attacks
>that sum up to the biggest figure?

Possibly, but it's also quite possible that it was just coincidence in the
1.10 patch. :) 

>I'd really advice against a three elemental build, unless you can do
>magic with only a few skill points, like static field.

Well, Cold via FO, Fire via FB, and Lightning via SF as a boost/backup is
about as Tri-Elemental you can get. But SF is of course never a killer, it
can only help to weaken the targets...

But a 'real' Tri-Elemental sorceress has been impossible to do since 1.10.
Since I never played a sorc in 1.09, I don't know how powerful they were
in that version...

>> So the next step is dual-tree, and there you're quickly locked in only a
>> few options.
>
>I think it's not so few, just considering the attack spells:
>
>Fire ball/fire wall/meteor are all fine fire spells.
>Charged bolt and chain lightning are both nice.
>Frozen orb and blizzard are also both nice.
>
>So this is 3*2*2 = 12 spells out of which you choose two from different
>trees, so you have 12 options with theses spells.


Yes, but my point all along has been that the problem is not the
'potential' of the various spells in the different trees, but the amount
of skill points you need to max them. Of the spells you mention, keeping
in mind I'm not to at home with Sorceress skills, the following need (a
lot of ) synergies to become powerful: Fire Ball, Meteor, Charged Bolt,
Chain Lightning, Blizzard. So that severely limits your possibilities.

>How about nova? It also seems a cheap option in the lightning tree, and
>could be used as well as charged bolt?

Apparently Nova is the basis of a build which some people over in
alt.games.diablo call a 'RocketSorc'. However, when I asked how this build
looks specifically, I didn't get an answer...

It is supposedly very powerful, but I have no idea if this build can solo
hell...

>> 20/15 FO/CM (35)
>> 20/20/20 FB/FB/FM (60)
>> 1/1/1 SF/Tel/Warmth (3)
>>
>> Prerequisites I don't know off the top of my head, so I'll assume 5, so
>> the above would cost about 35 + 60 + 3 + 5 = 103 points. Hmm. Difficult,
>> but doable, and already quite potent, even before doing it exactly like
>> that.
>
>Yes, that'll be very effective in both fire and cold damage. If I decide
>against lightning, I'll try this.

I think the above is more or less what my FB/FO sorc will look like. Now I
only need time to start playing some D2. :) 

>> Lightning is fun, but needs ~50 points to become potent (maxed LM+CL, and
>> some points in LI). So Lightning can also only be combined with FO again.
>
>Ok, so we should abandon the idea of a fire/lightning sorc ?

I'm not saying you should, I'm just saying I have my doubts this build
will be workable in Hell. It will probably do very good up until NM, but I
think it will slow down considerably when you reach Hell..

Regards,

Patrick.
!