People tell me ATI = sucky. Is this true?

I thought about buying an ATI radeon 9700 Pro, but decided to see what you guys thought about it. People are telling me that Nvidia is better than ATI in every way. Should I just go with a geforce 4? or would the radeon be a good buy?
71 answers Last reply
More about people sucky true
  1. I bought one, the board is nice, but ATI's driver support has NOT GOTTEN BETTER. the Catalyst drivers have holes all over them. The drivers sent from ATI with the 9700 for WDM are not even certified. The board has been out for 2 to 3 weeks now and there is STILL NO DRIVER INFO on ATI's website. I am really impressed with performance under Q3 and UT, but the Catalyst 2.1 and 2.2 drivers, the ONLY 9700 drivers will not work under NWN correctly, there has been a known fact about it since the game was issued and according to BioWare, ATI has been 'NON-RESPONSIVE' I sent an email about the issue and was told to download new drivers from the web-site even though they are not available there. Bottom line the hardware is ONLY as good as the Driver, and the drivers need work here for sure...I'd hold off, it is too much money to just blow to be frustrated like me.
    ATI support is ONLY available Mon- Fri 8-5, they claim to operate a call back set-up but they LIE alot, 3 attempts and NO return calls.
    The ATI raw performance is MUCH better than my Nvidia TI-4600 (MSI) but if the drivers don't get better its just a door stop. BTW the TV tuner BLOWS my ti-4600 away.
  2. Just a few months ago I was deciding between a 7500AIW and a 8500AIW. I read somewhere (It may have been Tom's Hardware) the "tin can" tuner on the 7500 is more stable than the silicon tuner on the 8500. My plan was to build a home theatre PC, so I went with the cheaper 7500.

    Rather than repeat my last tirade (check the posts for "Radeon can't play Dolby DVDs late last july), that
    ATI card wasted a month of my life trying to get that piece of crap to work properly. ATI did NOTHING but tell me the problems are documented and their staff is working on them. That was almost 2 months ago. Publisher's Clearing House will show up with a million dollar check before ATI contacts me again!

    Some people may tell you that the driver problem at ATI is ancient history. Well, if they are using a Radeon for Email and Solitaire, I guess the drivers are "fixed."

    But if you plan on really using the card as it's (falsely) advertised, you will require medical sedation by the end of the month! If ATI dared to offer me a 9700, absolutely free of charge, including ATI's express shipping (which took 2 weeks last time), I would tell them to stick the 9700 up Mr. Ho's AGP slot.
  3. If people told you Windows XP has viruses because it is made by Microsoft, should you stop considering it?

    Saying Nvidia is all better than ATi is FUD and BS.
    Go for the card man, tell your friends they suck, in fact they are lying idiots who spread FUD. Go buy it and shove it in their face!

    --
    When buying an AthlonXP, please make sure the bus is at 133MHZ, or you will get a lower speed!
  4. YEAH! Spend all your money on an ATI card, and if you have any problems, just call Ms Eden...Because you won't get any worthwhile help from ATI.
  5. Quote:



    YEAH! Spend all your money on an ATI card, and if you have any problems, just call Ms Eden...Because you won't get any worthwhile help from ATI.

    Or better yet: PM me! :smile: ATI has released 2 official driver sets and about a half dozen leaks since you last posted about your problem. I doubt you've tried them all.

    Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.
  6. lol.. i knew it wouldn't be too long until the ati fanbitches ran to their defense :o)<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by nja469 on 09/04/02 08:05 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
  7. Lol.
    To the original poster: I will not tell u which card to buy, but will tell you some issues I've had. I've used 2 different systems, with different ati cards, and used practically all possible drivers, to no avail, the systems still had issues cause of the vid card. Ati has really pissed off some people with their shoddy drivers, etc. It is true that the R9700 outperforms the GF4, but then what happens if u can't run half the games u want- is that worth it? On the other hand, buying a GF4 would just be dumb imo, as GF5 isn't very far, and the GF4 is just a pumped up GF3, meaning it'll be phased out in not too long a while. Optionally, u could wait for GF5. I haven't had problems w/ NV, nor have any of my other freinds; their drivers have been rock solid for us (we've used from 2.xx up to 40.41- all of em, including betas). Your call.

    What if you had admin rights to life?
  8. um, ok, sure...hehe. I'm cool with that title as long as I get a cookie! :smile:

    Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.
  9. What leaks are you referring to?
    Knowing ATI, it's MEMORY LEAKS!

    As for the dozen new drivers that were released this month, I don't give a damn. Let ATI find another chump to test their flakey products. Apparently, there won't be any shortage of helpless, willing, guinea pigs trying to do what ATI can't do: Try to make a product live up to their advertising hype!
  10. Quote:

    What leaks are you referring to?
    Knowing ATI, it's MEMORY LEAKS!

    Hehe, I'm referring to driver leaks. As in drivers that are released from ATI unofficially. You can find several at Rage3d.com.

    Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.
  11. Well, I had a very knowledgable tech (of which few exist) tell me that AMD made faster processors than Intel. This was about two months ago, right after Intel released the 2.4 and AMD only had the 2000+. Opinions stink, I like to deal in facts. Fact is the 9700 is the fastest card you can buy. The only thing I've seen that sucked from ATI was their "Multi Media Center" software package. I don't use MMC anyway, I use WinAmp, Media Player, and PowerDVD.

    <font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
  12. "I can find several"

    I already have several drivers! I have several different CDs, I have several drivers from the website...Some dated before the CDs, some dated after the CDs. It seems like every week there is another driver release, with a new list of problems that ATI "has in their knowledge base and are currently investigating a solution."

    I told you a month ago, I did not buy this awful ATI product to go on a lifelong quest trying to make it work!
    I appreciate your efforts tossing a life preserver to the Titanic, I just don't understand why you are defending the worst company that I have ever seen. I always see a pile of ATI-bashing messages, a defense message from you, and then another pile of ATI-bashing. You are always shot down a dozen different ways, yet you remain loyal to this outfit. Please tell me, why do you defend these guys?

    I've ditched the card, cut my losses and went with another vendor. But, if I see a post asking about my opinion regarding ATI products, I will give them as many facts as their ISP can handle. Now, would you care to guess how many of these experiences are positive? Would you like me to post some of ATI's wonderful (email) responses?

    This company constantly churns out crap with flakey drivers and then release a new card, with flakey drivers.

    Have you noticed any complaints with the 9700? "But it's a new card! We HAVE to expect problems!" Why spend money on QA and testing if we can just sell it the way it is and let the ATI fans figure it out themselves? Apparently, this plan is working...somewhat.
  13. hmm, name calling. Good way to show your great intellect.

    Sorry, I have had a GF2 ever since 3dfx went out of business. And I have recommended that people go buy Nvidia cards many times over Ati cards. But in this case (and especially after nvidias last "great" *cough* driver release) I say go with what the benchmarks say. Go with the 9700, leave the current generation of gforce's in the dust. Your friends may ridicule you, once their jaws return to a closed position.


    ps.... I don't always recommend the big two either, I have been known to recommend Matrox cards to some people. It all depends on what you want from a card.

    As for fanbitches, looks like someone is picking up the silicon soap themselves over at nvidia.


    <font color=red>Red meat isn't bad for you</font color=red>,<font color=blue> Fuzzy blue meat is bad for you.</font color=blue>
  14. Man sucks for you bro. I've had 3 ATI cards and they work GREAT. You ditched the best video card out there, hands down. good game
  15. The only thing I've seen that sucked from ATI was their "Multi Media Center" software package. I don't use MMC anyway, I use WinAmp, Media Player, and PowerDVD.

    Let me see if I'm understanding you... You PAID for the ATI DVD player, but had to purchase and use PowerDVD. You PAID for the ATI CD Player, but use Media Player. You paid for all of the MMC options, but don't use any of them. Why?

    Well... We already know why. I'm just wondering why this does not seem to upset you?
  16. Too bad some just don't understand the concept of humor. The term fanboys is dull and boring. Fanbitches is more my style.

    I honestly don't favor nividia over ATI. For god sakes they’re only a video card maker. While I do currently own a G4 Ti4200, the fact is I will most likely use the 9700 PRO in my new system I'm building in a couple of months. The only way that would change is if the NV30 is out by this time and it stomps all over the 9700. Most likely it will. Even die hard ATI fans have to admit that nvidia wouldn't release a new class of cards w/o it blowing the competition off the charts.

    Nevertheless, I will go with whatever performs the best when building my system. It might be an ATI card; it might be an nvidia card. Same holds true with the CPU. If the barton XP and nforce2 are out, and they kick total intel ass, I'll go with that combo. Most likely though, they won’t. I have a feeling a 3GHz pentium will be the chip of choice. It all comes down to bandwidth anymore.

    Sorry to bust your bubble, and nice mental image. Truth is I'm not taking it up the bum from anyone at NV :o) Though I wonder what they would give me if I did.. ohhh the possibilities :o)
  17. I bought a very inexpensive card, a Radeon LE (NOT 8500LE) TVO. It had better TVO than my GeForce card, similar performance, and more features. I didn't even know what MMC was at the time. I got PowerDVD for "free" with my DVD player, wholesale price on PowerDVD is around $0.59. I don't see nVidia giving out applications software with their cards, so comparing prices only makes MMC a "value added" package which is nearly free anyway. Like most value added "free" software, it sux, but if you assume that before you purchase the card, and compare the price of ATI cards to the price of nVidia cards, ATI is still a better value. And still has better TVO.

    <font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
  18. lad the main reason that these driver releases keep coming out is because most current games are developed on systems with Nvidious cards (which were probably given out free), ATI didnt hence there are a lot of apparent problems with ATi boards when it comes to these games...
    if the game cos actually bothered to devlop & playtest using ATI & Nvidious rather than just sticking in a line on the box saying 'oh yeah, it will with with ATI cards' life would be sweet...

    Fact: R9700 Pro is the fastest current gfx card around BUT until games are PROPERLY tweaked to run right with this chipset, it will SUCK...

    PS I am not an ATI fanboy, I have lots of diff ATI, Nvidious & other developers cards in the past, I just like the fastest I can afford

    no-one shouts louder than someone who is being ignored, or in the case of techies, to be heard over the noise of their PC's ;-)
  19. *pop*


    Damn it, do you people know how much those bubbles cost?


    Sorry, you came off as you were in the mindset of nvidia = good, ati = suck. I agree, its a peice of hardware. At some point, any company can have one that pisses all over everybody else, until another company comes and blows the wind in their direction. Right now is obsolete.

    BTW: A XP3000 w/ a 9700 card and 400 ddr sounds like it will be the LOOK AT ME combo. Least thats what I would like to have.

    <font color=red>Red meat isn't bad for you</font color=red>,<font color=blue> Fuzzy blue meat is bad for you.</font color=blue>
  20. Something tells me all you would get is either a driver release or a taste of their golden sample....

    <font color=red>Red meat isn't bad for you</font color=red>,<font color=blue> Fuzzy blue meat is bad for you.</font color=blue>
  21. lonemagi,
    great sig man
  22. Quote:
    Or better yet: PM me! ATI has released 2 official driver sets and about a half dozen leaks since you last posted about your problem. I doubt you've tried them all.


    ::cheap shot::

    Yeah, trying 2 dozen different drivers to fix an issue he should never have had in the first place, strong word of support for ati's drivers amd_man ;-)

    :wink: Heatsinks, if you dont overclock, use the <b>STOCK!</b> :wink:
  23. Thanx, but I got it off of a bumpersticker I have.
    My gf got it at an anime con from these guys <A HREF="http://pegasuspublishing.com/cart/index.html" target="_new">http://pegasuspublishing.com/cart/index.html</A>

    <font color=red>Red meat isn't bad for you</font color=red>,<font color=blue> Fuzzy blue meat is bad for you.</font color=blue>
  24. It's funny how it seems to take half a dozen unreleased, unsupported, unoffical beta drivers to fix errors with the card.
  25. lol. Maybe AMD_man ought to go show em how to write drivers, he knows how to program:)

    What if you had admin rights to life?
  26. Quote:

    lol. Maybe AMD_man ought to go show em how to write drivers, he knows how to program:)

    eek, no way man. I'm no where near that level yet. I just hate assembler language. I've got an idea, but I guarantee you wouldn't want to see my first attempt at writing a driver. :wink:

    I'm only 16. I know a couple of programming languages and I program as a hobby, but there's a reason you have to study programming for 4 or 5 years in University you know. :eek:

    In fact, my comp sci teacher tells me while I do have a good head start now, I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of programming. He tells me you'll learn around a dozen programming languages in university, plus all the underlying theories. However, both of the universities I'm aiming for have a co-op program, so I can work in the field a semester a year. It's pretty cool.

    Hehe, I may end up working for ATI in a couple of years as a university student, if I'm lucky! :wink:

    Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.
  27. U work for ati, I put u out of business when I work for NV, it's all good....that or I take over the world! mwahahah mwahahaha mwahahahaha! (Dr. Evil laugh). :)

    What if you had admin rights to life?
  28. At least ATI fixes things Nvidia still has not got anisotropic filter working properly in direct 3d despite numerous detonator releases and to make it worse they have increased the LOD bias, something that ATI has being recently also.
  29. Difference though is that I can play games w/ NV cards; they won't work w/ Ati cards. Hmm, I am yet to make that rocket w/ an ati card on top to blow up as I promised AMD_Man.

    What if you had admin rights to life?
  30. I don't know what Aniso thing you're talking about. My Ti200 filters properly but I don't use it because it hurts the card a lot.

    --
    When buying an AthlonXP, please make sure the bus is at 133MHZ, or you will get a lower speed!
  31. woah, Eden, you're making some bold claims there. Overall, Nvidia is better. Right now though, it's a hard decision to choose between Nvidia and ATI considering the 9700 Pro is out right now. ATI definitely has the performance lead, but their drivers are pretty bad. As several people have mentoined, the drivers are making certain games unplayable. So, I see no point in getting the 9700 Pro right now. I recommend that you wait for better drivers, or wait for the NV30 to come out.

    - - -
    <font color=green>All good things must come to an end … so they can be replaced by better things! :wink: </font color=green>
  32. I can't wait to see how a Quadro based on NV30 will perform, I mean with the proper optimizations..........oh dear, I've broken my keyboard by drooling on it:)

    What if you had admin rights to life?
  33. What's with you and Quadros?? They are damn expensive for some optimizations in some proggies....?

    <i>Past mistakes may make you look stupid, but avoiding future ones will make you look smart!</i>
  34. They work really well w/ 3d s max:) Actually, I have a real Quadro DCC, but I'm mostly in it for finding the l337 haxxor to make GF to Quadro. Before it was easy, now it's tougher, and more fun (w/ GF4's).

    What if you had admin rights to life?
  35. Alright possums,

    If you want insane speed with anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering at high resolution, go ATI, at the expense of 20% of games not working properly or at all. If you want lower LOD, slower frame-rates with eye-candy on, but stability across 99% of games on the market, go nVidia.

    You got to realise something here too... ATI is bringing out new technology, a whole new driver set, pushing the envelope... sh*t will go wrong and happen. GF4s are upgraded GF3s, not much more. It's the same with any new technology. Look at Audigy, P4, and so forth... when they first came out, they were sh*thouse. Now, after maturation time, they are better, if not solid. The current release by ATI is not perfect, but it is a hell of a lot better than the 8500 botch that happened 2 years ago.

    Rage3D forum is flooded with complaints at the moment because people are expecting brand-spanking new technology to work the first time. On every system. Like that is ever going to happen... And people are bitching about BETA-releases, for crying out loud... releases coded on NV-based cards because the 9700 wasn't available yet, and THEY ARE BETAS... they aren't finalised, and they will be patched if the coders aren't slack.

    Geez some people are dumb.

    So, the moral of the story is, if you buy bleeding-edge technology that hasn't matured yet, don't expect it to run like a dream. The more time passes, the more systems there are, the more combinations of components there are, the more driver combinations for those components there are... there are thousands of combinations, if not millions. A little patience goes a long way, and is seems to be people are getting their shorts in a twist simply because they must be the owner of the best system in the world that will 'own' everyone else on the planet... for what, a week? A day? Get a life.

    If a company were to test each and every itieration of system configurations available to users, you would have to wait over 6 years for a product to be tested and certified. Is that good business sense? No.

    Cheers.

    -

    I plugged my ram into my motherboard, but unplugged it when I smelled cooked mutton.
  36. Funny how GF3 was new tech, and I was one of the first people to get one, and had no probs. Oh fyi, NV cards are much more optimized in AA than Ati cards, and don't suffer much at all in higher res. Radeons (original) have been around for some time now, and they still don't work w/ a lot of games (this has come from personal expereince). Same w/ R8500, etc. It's not the new tech, it's that the drivers just don't work well.

    What if you had admin rights to life?
  37. My standpoint is this:

    nVidia are aren't 99% stable and bugfree like what some people believe. However, much more game developers test their games on nVidia cards. What does that mean? If a game developer tries to do something that doesn't work as expected on an nVidia card, they'll do whatever they can to workaround the issue.

    Up until the release of the R8500, nVidia was well ahead of ATI in making performance cards, and so many developers didn't particularly pay attention to the gameplay on an ATI card.

    People automatically assume that if one game works on one card and not another then it's the driver's problem. In fact, it may not be, ATI is going well beyond required to fix what the game developers are supposed to fix.

    For example, some people say that Windows XP is an awful OS while others say it's great. When I tried some of the programs I had on NT-based OSes, they wouldn't even run without crashing. The reason was simple, my program was trying to get the % of free system resources on startup. WinNT-based OS have virtually unlimited system resources, so the Dll call simply doesn't exist. How do you work around this problem. Well, Microsoft could make the call available in WinXP and make it always return the result 100 or I can call the procedure only when a WinNT based OS is detected.

    Of course, all this is now changing with the R9700, ATI is rapidly gaining market share because nVidia is losing manufacturers and ATI is gaining them. With Creative and Gainward about to make ATI cards for retail and OEMs, we'll be seeing more ATI chips available. As ATI gains the market share it lost in the last couple of years, developers will be obligated to ensure their games work with ATI cards.

    Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.
  38. Quote:

    Oh fyi, NV cards are much more optimized in AA than Ati cards,

    Which is why the R9700 is up to 5X faster than the TI4600 in AA. :wink:

    Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.
  39. The fact remains, as some people have pointed out, that all games are optimised and coded for nVidia cards. Thus, the ATi boards aren't always 100% compatible.
    nVidia is bloated: they no longer work to fix issues people have with certain set-ups, as people will still buy their boards. ATi, wanting a good reputation, still care and fix problems. Because of the situation, ATi are having to do a lot of work that the game coders should originally have done.
    Also, ATi cards have better value for money than nVidia. Just look at the R8500 compared to the GF3 Ti 500 when they were both full-price cards.

    In a dream,
    I was drowning my sorrows,
    When my sorrows, they learned to swim...

    U2 - Until The End Of The World
  40. Ok flamethrower which games since you are such an ATI expert. Here is the facts the 9700 is better and a hell of alot more stable than the r8500. Question is how much more. My research shows in windows xp AFTER installing the new service pack it is very stable with problems with one or two DEMOS and a few games. Some stuttering seen especially when certain fire-wall programmes running in the background BUT SO FAR MORE MOST users have actually had no problems. Your claims of 9700 not working in over 50% games is just BS because the r8500 is not even not that bad. Note no comparisons to the nVIDIA cards have been made.
  41. You do reliaze nVIDIA has now increased the LOD.
  42. We're comparing different generation vid cards, cause the Gf4 is really gf3 gen.

    What if you had admin rights to life?
  43. Well, I predict a great future for PC gaming with both nVidia and ATI at the helm. My guess is by the time the NV30 is released late this year or early next year, ATI will have nearly as much market share in the gaming sector as nVidia. Developers will start thoroughly testing their games with both cards, and so compatibility will no longer be an issue. Perforance will be almost on par as well. In the long run, it will end up being a simple user preference between ATI and nVidia. The refresh R300 (rumoured to come out early 2K3), and the NV30 supposedly coming out late 2K2 or early 2K3 will be neck and neck (at least that's what the specs suggest).

    Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.
  44. I checked over at VR-Zone and they had some rumours saying that NV30 wouldn't actually ship til Feb of 2003. Now that seems quite late to me, and ATi'll probably have their R350 by then.

    ...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...
  45. Nvidia won't release the next class of chips unless it will outperform the competition, by a decent margin. Even though the ATI card is impressive, no doubt that nvidia can and will beat it with the nv30.

    I'm almost positive we won't see neck to neck performance on a 9700P vs NV30. Why would they release a card offering similar performance? That makes no sense. Although I don't know the future, neither do you. Common sense tells us otherwise.
  46. The NV30 will most likely outperform the R9700, but there are rumours going around that ATI has shifted to a 6 month product cycle. If so, ATI will have an "enhanced" version of the R9700Pro shortly after the NV30 is released.

    Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.
  47. I guess after NV30 it'll be a year till something really new comes out, NV35 will prolly just be a beefed up NV30. NV40 NVidia already mentioned, and said it'd be something sick. It's odd, while I was on my trek during the summer and was on top of a mountain, and looked around me, wondering what it'd take to render all I saw; down to every blade of grass. Imagine. I think at that level though, we'd be turning to quantum computing to simulate physical systems.

    What if you had admin rights to life?
  48. """The only thing I've seen that sucked from ATI was their "Multi Media Center" software package. I don't use MMC anyway, I use WinAmp, Media Player, and PowerDVD.

    Let me see if I'm understanding you... You PAID for the ATI DVD player, but had to purchase and use PowerDVD. You PAID for the ATI CD Player, but use Media Player. You paid for all of the MMC options, but don't use any of them. Why?

    Well... We already know why. I'm just wondering why this does not seem to upset you? """

    ***They are bundles...People buy the hardware and not the software...most people would care less about the bundled software unless if you are a gamer then you would be happy to find a game bundled with your hardware. Also if you are smart enough you don't have to pay for the bundled software, buy OEM..sure sure OEM has a shorter warranty but some shops give 1 yr warranty on OEMs...and if you are a true gearhead in a year's time you'd buy a new videocard anyway...sure ATI makes mistakes i.e. drivers, but leave the bundled softwares alone, don't add it to the pile just to feed your frenzy...thanks!
  49. I don't own either a Nvidia GF4 or an ATI 9700 Pro card.

    I can tell you this though: If I bought a $350 video card and 1/5 of my games didn't work, I'd feel ripped off and would never buy from that company again.

    If I bought a car and I couldn't drive it on all freeways I sure wouldn't buy from them either.

    If my toaster would toast white bread but not wheat I'd be pissed.

    Just my point of view as an outsider looking in. The product has to actually run games if you're going to call it the fastest. In my opinion, the speed is ZERO if it won't run everything.

    So....either don't buy the card, or wait until the drivers are out. Nobody should have bought that card yet. That's just stupid.

    <font color=red>I'd like to dedicate this post to all my friends, family, and fans. Without them this post would never have been possible. Thank you!</font color=red>
Ask a new question

Read More

Graphics Cards ATI Radeon Graphics