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Display of games off to the sides of the monitor

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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September 12, 2002 6:36:05 AM

Hello,

Here is one I haven't figured out what in the world is going on.

I am running with a Visiontek GeForce 3 Ti500 hooked to a Iiyama VisionMaster Pro 510 (21" AG Monitor). I run at the following resolution:
1024x768x16bit

Whenever I want to play a game, as you know most games default to a resolution usually of 640x480 or 800x600.

The Problem is that when the game starts up, part of the screen is off to the right of the monitor so I can't see things on the right side.

Now the only 2 solutions I have found, which aren't good ones were:
1) Make adjustment whenver I play a game via the actual controls on the monitor (Horizonatal and Vertical Positioning and Size)

The problem with that is that puts wear and tear on the monitor plus, when I return to Windows then the desktop is not correctly displayed cause I had adjusted it for the game. So if I pushed everything to the left to see the right, now the left side of the windows desktop can't be seen without reversing the steps above.

2) I have tried to adjust each resolution on the display properties using Nvidia's Reference 30.82 WHQL for Win98SE. But it doesn't seem to help with all games.

So I am looking for any help on resolving this problem.

I don't remember having this problem with my Matrox G400 Max from a year ago, and of course I won't go back to that after having a GeForce :) 

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
September 12, 2002 10:32:50 AM

I own a gf4 ti4200, I experienced the same problem when I was playing empire earth, may be you can set the resolution at 32bit. You may list the games which caused the problem.
September 12, 2002 2:55:51 PM

In Display Manager under Settings you'll see a tab for Screen Adjustment which allows you to shift the image, similar to the controls on your monitor. Give those a try. Adjust your games with the monitor control then quit to the desktop. Adjust the desktop using the above software controls instead of the monitor controls. Hopefully this will pemanently fix the problem.


<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
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September 13, 2002 1:47:13 AM

Yep I have tried those monitor adjustments in the display controls. It seems to work on only a handful of titles. I have tried to stop trying or using the monitor as mentioned cause I don't want to put added wear and tear on the monitor controls themselves plus having to reach over and change it can become a real nusiance not to mention that what I adjust on the monitor itself when I return to desktop or go back to a game it won't be right :) 

There has to be a solution or tweak tool out there, since this can't be just an isolated issue.
September 13, 2002 3:47:17 AM

How old is your monitor? It is unusual that adjustments in one resolution affect settings in another resolution.

<b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
September 13, 2002 8:40:42 PM

Have you tried a software refresh rate fix? Usually a game will default to 60hz at 800x600, this alone is wreaking havoc with my Viewsonic 19" monitor, I put in the refresh rate fix, "forced" it to run 85hz at 800x600 resolution and it corrected itself.
September 14, 2002 9:27:34 PM

Have you installed the inf file for your monitor ?

-N-

<b><font color=blue>Paramedics - Does this mean there is always two of them ?</font color=blue></b>

<A HREF="http://www.nialm.com\rig.htm" target="_new">My Rig</A>
September 18, 2002 10:21:34 AM

My monitor is an Iiyama Visionmaster Pro 510, purchased in late 1998 (was the top of the line model released in mid to late 98)

I have downloaded and installed the iiyama visionmaster pro 510 inf and color management files.

Someone mentioned the forced settings using software refresh program. If windows is using the optimal or default or adapter settings, then using the software refresh fix, doesn't that risk setting it to high for the graphics card or monitor.
September 18, 2002 4:21:53 PM

I also think this has to see w/ the refresh rate. I would consider giving a go to RivaTuner. I'm using it since several months and found it quite useful for modifying some settings that might not be directly available in the windows control panel. You can get it at : guru3D.com.
Then, when you have started the utility, under the "driver settings" tab, select the "60 Hz" icon. In the new window, click "select all display modes" and then "select maximum supported refresh rate", restart your computer, and you're done !
A last note : this tool (the 60Hz refresh rate tool) was originally designed for win2k... But I think it should work under 98.
Hope this will help !
September 18, 2002 6:28:17 PM

Info:

Some of the people who have answered your post have forgotten that there was no refresh rate issue in Win98SE ... although it is a common occurance in Win2K and WinXP.

1.) Your normal color depth at 1024x768 should be 32-bit, not 16-bit. I'd suggest that you make this change. 16-bit is an odd color depth for a 2D display with a monitor of this quality, IMHO.

2.) Your monitor has several internal presets for different resolutions. When you switch to these different resolutions in games, the monitor will "remember" the adjustments you make with the monitor controls (not the ones in Windows Display Properties)... if the refresh rate for the resolutions has been previously adjusted.

I suggest that you load several different resolutions; both 16-bit and 32-bit color depths, and manually change the refresh rate for each mode so that it is no lower than 85Hz. Then adjust the display for each resolution. Personally, I prefer 100Hz for this monitor, as the display looks better on my unit at this refresh rate. With this monitor, you should be able to easily run a refresh rate of 100Hz at every resolution up to 1600x1024 without any difficulty at all.

With every resolution you may care to use set at the same resolution of 85 or 100Hz, after making manual adjustments with the monitor controls, the screen should no longer be moved over the side when you return to the normal desktop settings.

I'd also suggest running DXDIAG at the Start\Run line. Under the "More Help" tab, click the "Override" button, and type in the override value as the refresh rate you prefer. Since my normal desktop refresh rate is 1024x768x32@100Hz, I use 100.

By the way, I'm also running with the 30.82 drivers. But in WinXP, instead of Win98SE. In this situation, I must use the NVRefreshTool that is available from <A HREF="http://www.guru3d.com/files/" target="_new">Guru3D.com</A> to keep all resolutions (especially with 16-bit color) from dropping to 60Hz. But that just shouldn't be an issue with the combination of a GF3 card, the Pro 510, and the Win98SE.

And ... you won't wear out the monitor controls simply by making adjustments. They are not that fragile.

Final comment: I run all games at 1024x768x16 or 1024x768x32, both at 100Hz. The display screen never shifts. With your video card, there should be no reason to use a resolution any lower. You should get perfectly playable frame rates at these resolutions. And most modern games allow choosing the resolution perference within the video options of the game itself.

Toejam31

<font color=red>First Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=17935" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Devastating Dalek Destroyer</font color=green></A>
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September 18, 2002 8:33:43 PM

I dont understand at all Toejam...
Your P4 1.8 is the most powerful of the two PCs, it has the most RAM, the biggest screen, and you only fitted it with a G2 TI ????? Whereas your "little" Duron is loaded with a G4 TI4400 ?????????????
I really dont understand ! Should you use the P4 to work, so be it, but you're telling us you play on the 21' (or 22') screen !! Weird...
September 18, 2002 11:38:08 PM

That does seem a little strange, huh? :eek: 

Mostly it's because of past issues with the Intel system and the GeForce4 card. I described the problem in this post:

<A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=342" target="_new">APIC</A>

As it turned out, while the issues with the APIC controller were still affecting the main system, I wasn't sure right after the intitial assembly how much of the problem was might be due to an incompatibility issue between the new GF4 card and the Giga-Byte mainboard. When I swapped out the GF4 for the GF2 that was initially in the Duron system, I was able to install all the cards in the PCI slots without the video card driver being disabled in Windows.

That is, until I replaced the Maya sound card with the Hercules.

In the meantime, I installed all the games I owned on both systems. Some of them worked well on the Intel rig ... but not all. Games like MechWarrior 4 and RTCW would give me an error whenever any of the .avi files in the games would try to play, with the gist of the message stating that I was missing a required codec. Gameplay was fine, but the opening sequences were trashed.

But everything played great on the Duron system with the GF4, despite being partially limited by the processor speed. However, the slower processor didn't change hamper the video card <i>that</i> much, and I was getting very good results. The card benchmarked and worked well on the backup system.

So I became accustomed to playing games on the slower computer, which really didn't bother me that much, as it's just a walk across the room, and I don't play games that often. They are too involved, and I don't always have that much free time.

I <i>could</i> install the GF4 card in the Intel rig now, since the APIC issue has been solved. And I've considered doing so, just for the heck of it. But to be honest, I just don't see the point. Whenever I play games with the GF2 card, I'm not disappointed with the results, and the codec errors are gone. I can play something like MDK2, and get an average of 150FPS, which is nothing to sneer at. Sure, it's an older game, but a game doesn't have to be brand-spanking new to be a good one.

It's surprising, but the Duron system really isn't altogether <i>that</i> much slower than the Intel system. It's not as if I notice a huge drop in speed when switching from system to system. It boots faster than the Intel rig, is very responsive, and with the GF4 card, plays games extremely well. And there's nothing wrong with the Samsung display, despite being smaller than the Iiyama.

What I'll probably end up doing is replacing the video card in the Intel system sometime next year, and then pack away the GF2 card in the "outdated hardware box" I keep stashed away. I'm sure that there will come a time when the card will find its way into yet another computer. But as it stands, I'm actually pleased with the current setup. Both systems are running well, and both do everything asked of them ... games included.

When Doom 3 is released, I'll be wanting a new card ... and that's when I'll get a new one for the Intel system. But I like the GF4 card right where it is.

Toey

<font color=red>First Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=17935" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Devastating Dalek Destroyer</font color=green></A>
<font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
________________________________________

<A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com/phpBB/index.php" target="_new"><b><font color=purple>BTVILLARIN.com</font color=purple></b></A> - <i><font color=orange>A better place to be</font color=orange></i>. :wink:
September 19, 2002 5:20:38 PM

On a side note, I would be curious to know what issues you had with the APIC. I have that on my motherboard and have been wondering if that could be the cause of my random lockups I have had in both w98 and xp (I use the a removeable drive tray for IDE that allows me to keep W98SE and WinXP on 2 different drives - hence no conflicts with dual OS :)  )

Anyhow back to the monitor issue.

1) 16bit usage - I leave at that setting since a game I use to play would allow me to minimize the game to a window at 32bit. Since that game had a nasty habit of hanging and locking the desktop if at full screen (meaning you can't click on the desktop) if it failed to connect to the online game lobby (game is called Allegiance). So I switched over to 16bit so I could always minimize before attempting to connect to the lobby so if the game hanged, I could simply end task, something that couldn't be done at 32bit.

2) Refresh rate - I know my monitor supports past 100hz. I dont' remember the exact. But I have tried moving my refresh rates in the past up above about 72-85hz and actually I though the picture was less comfortable to read than at the about 72hz I have it set at right now. Always has been that way.

3) Using 1024x768 for all games - The problem is not all games support that high of a resoultion. I remember during my testing of games for what would or wouldn't be compatible with XP, that many games I had to use the compat setting of 640x480 since they ran only in lower resolutions under 1024. For example Icewind Dale I think provides unofficial support at 1024x768 but is okay at 800x600. So it isn't by choice.

4) Should automatically adjust - The screen does. It flickers as it changes to the game (obviously since it is going to a lower resolution). I have both the rivatuner, the NVRefresh Tool and NVRefresher Fix (the one mentioned in the post). My only concern has been that they want you to save "all" the changes, not just the one or two you change. So I would have to know the refresh rate for all what, I think something like 20-30 different settings and those simply aren't provided by Nvidia for their card and not by Iiyama. So if I accidently went to too high of a rate I could risk damage to my system.

Since I prefer a desktop resolution of 1152x864, if I use RivaTuner, setting it to 85 or 72 but that won't address the lower resolutions.
September 19, 2002 8:26:50 PM

Quote:
On a side note, I would be curious to know what issues you had with the APIC. I have that on my motherboard and have been wondering if that could be the cause of my random lockups I have had in both w98 and xp (I use the a removeable drive tray for IDE that allows me to keep W98SE and WinXP on 2 different drives - hence no conflicts with dual OS :)  )

Basically, as mentioned in the post on BT's forums, having the APIC controller enabled caused IRQ sharing to become very close to non-functional. This meant I had a heck of a time installing PCI cards that shared an IRQ address. This also affected all USB and Serial devices. I couldn't use anything on the Serial ports at all, and adding a USB device like a mouse or a joy stick caused the video card driver to stop loading. It would be listed as "stopped" in the Device Manager, and nothing could be done from within the GUI to fix the problem.

I never got a BSOD (Blue Screen Of Death) ... I just couldn't install all my internal and external components without the video card driver (or the NIC card driver) refusing to load in Windows.

Actually, I'd rather have had a lockup or an error message, as this would have been an easier situation to troubleshoot. Locating a corrupt file, or upgrading a driver doesn't require as much work (or thought) as ascertaining why a BIOS appears to be incompatible with certain components.

And of course, it wsn't, and it's not. IRQ sharing just doesn't function correctly on this mainboard with the APIC controller enabled.

With the PIC controller selected in the BIOS, all the devices load normally, PCI, USB ... even a serial device for the MPEG-4 card remote control.

Quote:
1) 16bit usage - I leave at that setting since a game I use to play would allow me to minimize the game to a window at 32bit. Since that game had a nasty habit of hanging and locking the desktop if at full screen (meaning you can't click on the desktop) if it failed to connect to the online game lobby (game is called Allegiance). So I switched over to 16bit so I could always minimize before attempting to connect to the lobby so if the game hanged, I could simply end task, something that couldn't be done at 32bit.

That's very interesting.

Mind if I make a comment?

Why run legacy applications that have issues within WinXP when you already have Win98SE on another hard drive?

In most situations, having a dual-boot system is specific in nature. In other words, the whole point of having Win9x on a drive would be to run those applications that don't work as well (if at all) in a true 32-bit environment.

There's nothing wrong with running 16-bit color. But it does seem to be something of a waste to do this with an expensive AG monitor. I picked up my Iiyama to do graphic arts work, such as with Photoshop and Illustrator, and it would really bug me if I couldn't see the photographs I'm altering with anything less than full-blown 32-bit color.

But that's just me.

Have you installed the latest application compatibility <A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;Q319580" target="_new">updates</A> for the OS?

You might also find this link helpful for attempting to run <A HREF="http://www.microsoft.com/WindowsXP/pro/techinfo/adminis..." target="_new">legacy applications</A> in WinXP:

Quote:
2) Refresh rate - I know my monitor supports past 100hz. I dont' remember the exact. But I have tried moving my refresh rates in the past up above about 72-85hz and actually I though the picture was less comfortable to read than at the about 72hz I have it set at right now. Always has been that way.

I understand what you are saying, but with a monitor of this quality, I find it hard to accept that the display actually looks <i>better</i> at just one mode away from 60Hz, which on my unit has highly visible flicker ... too much for anyone to stand for any length of time. 1024x768x16@72 is a good resolution for a lower end 17" monitor, but is nowhere near the possible resolution and refresh rate that this monitor can display.

I expect that if you did some further experimentation and adjustment of the refresh rates at the different resolutions, you would discover that the font can be easier to read at a higher refresh rate.

The last time I regularly used a refresh rate that low, I had a 14" monitor hooked up to a 486-DX2.

Quote:
Should automatically adjust - The screen does. It flickers as it changes to the game (obviously since it is going to a lower resolution). I have both the rivatuner, the NVRefresh Tool and NVRefresher Fix (the one mentioned in the post). My only concern has been that they want you to save "all" the changes, not just the one or two you change. So I would have to know the refresh rate for all what, I think something like 20-30 different settings and those simply aren't provided by Nvidia for their card and not by Iiyama. So if I accidently went to too high of a rate I could risk damage to my system.

Here's the specifications for the monitor:

<A HREF="http://www2.iiyama.de/media/datenblaetter/21_int.pdf" target="_new">The Vision Master Series</A>

No more guessing. :wink:

As you can see, you have a long way to go to damage this monitor, simply by using a tweaking tool like NVRefresh. The full extend of the monitor's capacity is not even fully represented by the video card driver in Display Properties.

And here is the <A HREF="http://www.iiyama.com/support2/usermanual/A201HT.PDF" target="_new">online manual</A>, in case you are missing your copy.

In WinXP, you may have to turn off ClearType in order for the fonts to be clearly displayed. ClearType looks terrible on an AG CRT.

Remember, I'm using the same monitor, so I won't encourage you to do anything that would blow it up! :lol:  I'm just trying to help you get the most out of the product.

Toey

P.S. Why don't you tell me a little more about those lockups.

<font color=red>First Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=17935" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Devastating Dalek Destroyer</font color=green></A>
<font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
________________________________________

<A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com/phpBB/index.php" target="_new"><b><font color=purple>BTVILLARIN.com</font color=purple></b></A> - <i><font color=orange>A better place to be</font color=orange></i>. :wink:
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