India-Pakistan War possible!

Well, amidst the Christmas and New year celebrations, the possibility of the fourth India-Pakistan war is building up.

Lets hope it doesnt happen. But if at all it happens, myself and every Indian is up to it!

Merry Christams and a Happy New Year!

girish


<font color=red>Nothing is fool-proof. Fools are Ingenious!</font color=red>

I hope not.
This planet doesn't need another war.

<font color=red><i>Happy Canuck</i>!</font color=red> ' '

Well, the Israelis were too agressive about that, probably that attack was uncalled for.

But the situation here is totally different. Pakistan is being too agressive, making strange statements and changing them day in and day out. They are building up a large army on the frontline, which clearly indicates their intentions. We have to stay alert. Our policy is only to retaliate, we will not attack first. But if they do some mischief, they have to face it. Probably Americans will take Pakistan's side in this matter as evident from history.

They are stooping to record low levels doing strange things. Mr. Musharraf said the attack on the Indian Parliament (which was totally unsuccesful thanks to the vigilant security) was a drama conducted by RAW (Research ans Analysis Wing, the Indian Intelligence agency) and Indian govt! Then the Pakistan TV (run by the Pak govt) says that the India Zee TV News channel did a survey and found that most Indians do not approve of the Government policies, Zee TV totally denied even having taken such a survey. I saw both the Zee TV news and the PTV clip saying that. They agreed to American *request* to take action on Jaish-e-Mohmd and Lashkar-e-Tayyaba, declared it has been done but actually did nothing. They arrested the Jaish chief Masood Azhar (the same person who was set free for release of the passengers in the hijacked Indian plane last year, which was taken to Afghanistan. He then went back home to Bahawalpur in Pakistan!), *questioned* him and then let him go.

And this is the same Pakistan that took America and the allies for one big ride! Promised to fight against terrorism (when its actually Pakistan where terrorism is emanating from over the years) and actually did nothing other than fancy talking.

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girish

<font color=red>Nothing is fool-proof. Fools are Ingenious!</font color=red>

Good call. It's in our nature to fight.

War itself is not a fight of good against evil. It is a nasty, messy business.

But I guess if I was called to fight for my country, I'd be there in line as well.

Yes! A quote about Australia that doesn't mention that stupid idiot crocodile hunter! Thank You!

I am positve that someone from pakistan will think the whole thing is indias fault, who are we to believe, 2 countries developing nuclear weapons specifically for eachother....its a damn mess.

We cant take any sides, if we do we would have another israel on hour hands, so good luck in your war.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!

I'm just sick-and-damn-tired of all the fighting everywhere over the same old crap year after year after year. You won't hear me defending the purity of the USA either, we're no better.

Santa must be a trucker.

Dorr, MI

Two nuclear powers waging war against each other? Has that ever happened? Do we ever want that to happen?

India and Pakistan are both victims of their own illusions. You're both crazy. From what the American press is reporting, you are both building up massive amounts of troops and waiting for the USA to negotiate some reasonable terms to end the standoff. Considering that nuclear weapons are part of the equation I would think that any reasonable diplomatic solution will do. I'm not too worried about a war.

Do me one favor though? If you do go to war, settle the land disputes once and for all so at least this war might be the last. Please!

If only you knew how nice it was having friendly neighbors on all sides.

Good luck...

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>

I did say ask any *Indian or a Pakistani* (you will find both of them in abundance in the US) and you will know the difference. I know you dont care, but if you do you'll get the answer.

Well, creation of Pakistan itself was a result of this hatred, then those guys wanted Kashmir to them which quite controvertially stayed with India.

So they started talking of fighting for Kashmir for a thousand years. They even occupied a part of Kashmir (which in international terms is *encroachment* on foreign land) but some silly internal and international pressures kept the Indian govt. from winning it back in a battle. In the meantime they reverted to the proxy war sending in Pakistani and Afghan merceneries to spread terror in Kashmir. And then accuse Indian army of killing 75,000 Kashmiris over the 20 years! So what were the merceneries doing running burger stalls?

It might be worth to mention here that India had captured massive territory upto Lahore in the 1962 war but gave it back alongwith 90,000 POWs after the war. India has always stayed with their values and restraint but this same restraint is being looked upon as weakness.

They say hating India is absolutely important to win elections in Pakistan. Not that there are always elections in there, dictators and ministers take their turns to rule the country. Its just enough to mention that the Madarsas (religious schools) in Pakistan teach how to use arms and make Islamic fanatics out of the pupils. The Talibanis are graduates from the same Madarsas in Pakistan.

in Urdu, Talib = student and Taliban is plural of students. These are the same guys who did the 9/11 attack on the US. And I found its utterly amusing Pakistan talking of fighting against terrorism. No doubt that was a result of President Bush's ultimatam *you are with us or you are with them*! And they did cash on their *help* to the US. They got loan waivers of billions of dollars, they got new aids of millions of dollars and they got arms worth millions of dollars. Anybody guess why they want those arms???? A few months later you will find one of these weapons with some terrorist killed in an encounter in Kashmir. Boy, how did he get that?

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girish

<font color=red>Nothing is fool-proof. Fools are Ingenious!</font color=red>

Just make sure the war doesn't spill over to Bangladesh, OK!

J/K

Personally, I don't think there will be a full scale war between the two countries. Neither of the countries are stupid enough, mind you, they are corrupt, (which country isn't? every gov't is to a certain degree) but not stupid. They're just measuring each other up and soon they'll realise a full scale war isn't the way to go ahead. Doesn't mean the guerilla war between them in kashmir will stop anytime soon though.


<font color=red><i>99% of statistics are made up!</i></font color=red>

I can't tell a pakastani from an indian or from a arab, I guess I'll have to lump'em all together and boycott everybody, think I care? I don't take cabs anymore nor do I patronize the corner newstands, boycott all those who opose!!! wanna f**k with America? and yeah I'll be at timesquare New Years Eve!

kill 'em all and let god sort them out!

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"

girish

99% of the people here in the US know very little about Kashmir. They think it’s just a Led Zepplin song. I myself would like to know more about the history of the region, however, no offense, you are hardly an unprejudiced source.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this is one of the few regions of conflict in which the good ol' USA has had very little to do with things am I correct? I do know certain historians have claimed that it is this very region that would be the spark that might start world war III. With Russia supporting India, and China supporting Pakistan (wonder why all those arms they are finding in Afghanistan are Chinese?), things could really be a mess.

The whole scenario in the Middle East is one big joke. Iraq/Iran, Iraq/Kuwait, Pakistan/India, Afghan/Afghan. Not to mention the whole mess in Israel. Muslims need to learn to get along with each other instead of pointing their fingers at the US as the source of all their problems. When is the last time you seen the US massing troops along the Canadian border? Come on Guys get your heads out of your collective butts.

Have you ever wondered why we have yet to find intelligent life in space? Could it be they progressed as we are only to bomb themselves into extinction?


It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

In 6000 years of recorded human history, all we have learned how to do is to build a better club.

Why do the windshield wipers always smear right in front of your face?

Priceland, AL

I am aware that not too many Americans or Europians know about the Kashmir issue. Heres a brief:

Before independence Pakistan and bangladesh were a part of India. When the British left India in 1947 (India celebrates the Independence day on 15th August, Pakistan on 14th August) they divided the country on basis of religious majority. The Hindu majority parts stayed with India, Muslim majority regins went to Pakistan. Some part of Bengal on the eastern coast of India went to Pakistan which was called as East Pakistan. In 1971, India assisted them to be liberated from Pakistan to form what is today known as Bangladesh. Its not this 1971 war that Pakistan seeks revenge, but its the whole issue with Kashmir which quite controversially stayed with India. It was a Muslim majority state ruled by a Hindu King Maharaja Hari Singh, the population had all faith in him and he signed up Kashmir to be included in India.

Some forces from Pakistan are sending Pakistani, Afghan, Chechen merceneries to Kashmir to fight against the govt. and spread terror. They have also annexed a sizable part of Kashmir which they call "Azad kashmir" or free Kashmir, but India calls it PoK or Pakistan occupied Kashmir. This, is against the 1947 treaty and classifies as encroachment, but as I said some silly international and internal pressures kept India from winning it back. These merceneries form the terrorist groups like the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba and Jaish-e-Mohommad which the US has recently put a ban on. They all have Head Offices in Pakistan and are said to be aided by the Pakistani intelligence agency ISI to wreck havocin Kashmir, which is termed by Pakistan as the freedon struggle of the people of Kashmir. In reality, nobody is asking what the Kashmiris want, neither India nor Pakistan. Its in India's interest to defend what belongs to them, its in Pakistan's interest to have Kashmir by any means.

This PoK is now so much taken as granted that, for example, the M$ Encrata encyclopedia even showed it to be part of Pakistan, so it was banned from sale in India. Then they published a Indian edition of the CD-ROM!

I dont say I am an unprejudiced source of info since being an Indian I know whats the point of view of the Indians, and also do agree there have been horrendous mistakes on part of both India and Pakistan during last 54 years.

They have setup training camps in the PoK and training Kashmiri youth by brainwashing them on Jihaad. I am not saying these are Pakistanis, they are Jihaadis, the Islamic terrorists who supposedly operate at the instance od pakistani intelligence agency ISI. If they dont, why doesnt Pakistan even try to take any action against them? I cant believe they needed any proof or are looking for any evidence against them for last 20 years! The Lashkar had their office in Lahore, the address of which was stated on their website, but after recent US ban on them and the Indian accusation of their involvement in the 13th Dec attack on Indian Parliament, they removed that address to severe any connections with Pakistan. Not only that, after the US pressure for taking any action on them, they had given two days to move the money from their accounts elsewhere, move their HO to PoK and even rename the organisation before officially banning them in Paksitan! Such acts on part of Pakistan do not help to build up any trust on them.

girish

<font color=red>Nothing is fool-proof. Fools are Ingenious!</font color=red>

Like the us "assisted" native americans in their fights with eachother? Or perhaps how britan "assisted" hong kong escape the vile chinese?

That statement reeeks of propoganda girish.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!

Just heard on the news that both sides have banned passenger flights from each other's airspace and limited ambassadorial relaitons. Both sides have also moved missile batteries into position along the border and infantry has traded fire. Regardless of reasons, if this is true, this can't be good news for you. Hope you keep your head down.

There wasnt any terrorism in Bangladesh, the miltary aid was given on their own request. After the division there were no intentions of India to get back any part of then pakistan, West Pakistan or East Pakistan. india did not attempt to smuggle in terrorists to Bangladesh and name it the freedom struggle. Pls do not comment on half knowledge of history.

What is terrorism? I guess Americans dint know what colour it was before 9/11, but now? Do not compare the Bangladesh liberation war and terrorism in Kashmir, they are totally different.

The crux of the matter is, Pakistan wants Kashmir for last 54 years, and its fighting for it. Direct war is difficult and expensive in changing world scenario, so this proxy war. They have already occupied a sizable part (nearly 20%) which is called as Pakistan occupied Kashmir, Pakistan terms it as Free Kashmir. They make young Kashmiris a victim of their propoganda of Jihaad, get them to PoK (Pak occupied Kashmir) or some place in Pakistan and train them with latest weapons. Then they return to Kashmir and start bombing and firing on their own brethren. Should this fighting termed as a freedom struggle?

Really, nobody needs to know what the Kashmiris want, a lot of Kashmiri students I've met (I stay in Pune which is educational capital of india, called as Oxford of India has a number of educational institutions where students from all over India and the world come to study) want to stay with India. A couple of my classmates told their own experiences with those people, many of their friends turned terrorists submitting to their call of Jihaad. I havent gone through such times, but I know what they think, many of them are close friends of mine. I know what they been through.

girish

<font color=red>Nothing is fool-proof. Fools are Ingenious!</font color=red>

"The crux of the matter is, Pakistan wants Kashmir for last 54 years, and its fighting for it."

So Indians don't want the Kashmir territory?

Two people fighting over something smaller than Rhode Island. This is as stupid as is fighting over a strip as small as Israel/Palestine. The crux of the matter is two people hate each other, whether you realize it or not, it is not a territory dispute. The Palestinians want there to not be an Israel and you guys, both India and Pakistan have the same problem. You won't give them the land because it would hurt your pride and giving into terrorism is dangerous. Aggression on the part of both sides is crazy. There has to be a change in this generation. You don't have to give up your ideals, religious persuasion, ancestry, etc. but you do need to care more about real life than your own selves. Building nuclear devices and bigger armies will not do it. Look at our cold war. I am not a believer in tolerance.

Tolerance in its own definition is not a fitting word. You need to care for other people. No one person’s rights are greater than another’s is. As with The Women’s Liberation, Gay Rights, Abortion, and other movements, but the rights of all people. The whole is equal with the individual and visa versa. We all need to stop being selfish and think of others first.

I know that this is philosophical, but until you are ready to live with another people you will never be satisfied. Even if there were no other people than Indians in the world, you would still find something to kill each other over.

<b>"The events of my life are quite inconsequential.." - Dr. Evil</b>

What is the difference between freedom fighting and terrorism? It is only a matter of perception.

The Bangladeshi independance was declared and shortly war was declared upon pakistan. As a Bangladeshi by birth, I can assure you there were several incedents of sabotage in pakistan by pakistani soldiers of bangladeshi birth. Would that be classified as terrorism?

Again it is always a matter of perception and let me remind you that history is written by the victors. Also, the material of study in education, especially in the lower years such as school and college is either provided or greatly influenced by the government. It is only in university that you get a free viewpoint in you subject of study. Only a few weeks ago in the "free" USA a girl was suspended from school for wearing an antiwar t-shirt. Only god knows how it is in India and Pakistan. These biases build up to prejudice and thus you never see eye to eye with someone who you've been taught is your enemy.

Personally I think Kashmir should become independant, but in this world of ours it would only become a target of occupation for another country and it would be the same argument all over again. Kashmir isn't signified by the people within it but instead by the Indian and Pakistani soldiers that face each other. There are, no doubt, non-military but militant groups from both countries in the region. I don't see what the hell it has to do with jihad, so just because its become a buzzword there is no point using it to get recognition or sympathy.

I also do not understand why the Indian government refused the pakistani offer for discussions in next weeks summit. Can you clarify the reason behind that?

You know, if you looked for it you can even find reason behind hitlers deeds. You could say "he was only trying to do what the greek, roman and british did before him. But he lost, so history portrays him as a vicious monster instead of a great leader." It is just too easy to lose your sight.

<font color=red><i>99% of statistics are made up!</i></font color=red>

The point is yes there are a few radical idiots. However, the moderate muslims are not doing a dam thing about controlling/policing their own countries/faith. Out of fear of retaliation they sit there closed mouthed while the extremist hijack their religion.

Your questions of illegal occupation is a good one. It all depends on what time reference you decide to draw the map. I suppose you think it out to be at the height of the Turkish Ottoman empire?

It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!

I think the most important thing you said was that history is written by the victors. It's a sad truth. Nonetheless, the history classes I have taken have been very very open minded (in college) and have portrayed the USA (at least) in the light it belongs. We let it shine when it should and we read into it's faults. I've brought up a couple of those ideas in here (ie Indians). Maybe we can bring up Saudi Arabia. I don't think there is an American alive who believes that the gov't isn't corrupt, but as far as the USA is concerened it's a vital interest and we'll clean up the mess when the monarchy falls. Not sure I like that, but economically we have to. Damn morons won't adopt alternative energies...

Once again though we find ourselves trying to figure out what is a freedom fighter and what is a terrorist. Do we decide based on the maps drawn in the bible, old empires, or do we decide based on modern history? It makes a huge difference.

I'm probabably a bit biased after 911, but I think we can fairly say that any group that targets civilians is a terrorist group and any group that targets the military is a freedom fighting group. I know it's not that cut and dry, but I think it's a good start.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>

WHAT? Hell no, when the bad actions are criminal you give them a trial, jail and or exectute them if the action merits it. You just don't "denounce" them!


It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!

Afghanistan has been a major hotbed for hundreds of years, not because of religous reasons, but for strategic ones. China, Uzbekistan(former USSR), Iran, Pakistan all surround this country. In older days it was a crossroads for trade between the different cultures. Now, it makes an ideal listening post for that reigion for whichever country holds sway there. Why do you think Russia wanted it, why do you think China and America countered them with military aid?

If NATO's smart, they'll try to post a permanent base there for the same reason, before they'll do that though, they'd want to make the country more politically stable by overseeing the enstatement of a democratic govornment, provide military assistance through peacekeeping forces etc.

>> we can fairly say that any group that targets civilians is a terrorist group and any group that targets the military is a freedom fighting group.

yes, that isnt so cut and dry, but definitely a good start. now see the 20 years of Kashmir and the figures of the bombings and killings. 75,000 Kashmiris, more than 2000 Indian Soldires and more than 1000 terrorists killed or arrested in the period.

Now the Pak govt <i>and</i> the groups operating in Kashmir say those 75,000 killings were atrocities of the Indian army, which is simply not true. Kashmir has been one of the most important part of India for years for many reasons. Due to the controversy through which it came with India it enjoyes a special status by Article 370 in the Indian constitution.

Till the late 80s there was hardly any army in Kashmir
(apart from the border), but after the terrorism started, it had to be posted in there in numbers of hundreds of thousands. This was to monitor and control the activities of these terrorist groups, who almost daily massacred 10s of people. Hundreds of thousands of Kashmiri Pandits (who are Hindus) who were targetted had to flee Kashmir to safer parts of India.

These daily massacre and bombings are taking lives of innocent Kashmiris (both Muslims and Hindus) and the India army till date. Its hard to believe that during these 20 years with tons of explosives, arms worth billions of dollars all they did is to kill 2000 army men! These tools of terror did their job, killed thousands of Kashmiris and now they say the Indian army has killed them. Who would believe that? Pakistani govt endorsing this insane statement gives clear ideas of their thinking. After all, these terrorists enjoy full support and aid from Pakistan.

So going by our elementary definition of terrorism, its easy to conclude that these groups operating in Kashmir are the Terrorists, and the Indian army is defending the state from them.

girish

<font color=red>Nothing is fool-proof. Fools are Ingenious!</font color=red>

The northern Alliance aren't exactly true afghanis either. They are mostly uzbeks and from other northern states that had help from russia. This country has been a pawn in the quest of many countries for world domination. That is the sole reason for the instabilities there. Nothing to do with muslims vs muslims.

Again when tribal leaders fight other tribal leaders, do you really think it is for religion?


<font color=red><i>99% of statistics are made up!</i></font color=red>

Until recently the Arab people saw the world and their own country through government controlled media. They weren't however mistreated but "protected" from the world and themselves. The same kinda protection that goes in the American media but somewhat amplified. (I can give you an interesting example of the american one, but thats besides the point) The people were just living in a mirage of paradise. The thing is if america was that disgusted by this then why did they support arm and protect these countries. The reason is they don't actually give a [-peep-] but actually would rather appease the the oil givers. So the arabs are depicted to the population in the most convenient way for the time.

So it is not a face these countries are showing but something that is being seen by the outside world. When you say Islam is causing the most problems, can you show where? Can you also say that is the only reason? do you think if the middle east was left alone things like this would happen? Do you think without interference and without an outside parties selfish agena the birth of people who want to destroy the west would happen? See, it may not be a blindness but a sight of convenience. A person with two perfect eyes can look the other way when they don't want to see something. In some ways it is worse than being blind.

<font color=red><i>99% of statistics are made up!</i></font color=red>