Is 1000MHz DDR enough for the nv30?

[vacs]

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5833

I guess that's one of the reasons I like Intel and nvidia. They are always up to surprises. They don't need to hype their products 1-2 years before the release and give away all the details months before the availability of those products but they come at the last moments and offer something no one would have ever expected...

Maybe this will calm down some 9700 owners who still believe no card will ever be able to beat the latest ATI graphiccard...

 

[AMD_Man]

That would put the NV30 and R9700 neck and neck. 128-bit 1GHZ DDRII is the equivalent of 500MHz 256-bit DDRII. The question is how much faster per clock is DDRII over DDR. It has to be 24% faster to match the performance of ATI's RAM. So it's still up for debate whether the NV30 will be faster or not.

Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.

 

[vacs]

read the inquirer's article more carefully. It's not just that nvidia will put some 1000mhz 128-bit DDR RAM in it, but they have also developped a new memory architecture (like the LMA in the days of <nv25) which is optimized for the need of a nv30 GPU powerhouse. I'm convinced that the increase in performance is not just limited to the excess of mhz and the slower 128-bit bus. There exists other factors which nvidia has surely taken care of...

 

[chuck232]

EDIT: Sorry AMD_Man. Just reread your post a couple times more. My post doesn't really make any sense anymore.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Chuck232 on 10/18/02 12:06 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[vacs]

it's hopeless, I give up

 

[phsstpok]

At 310 Mhz (620 Mhz DDR) and 256-bit wide data path the 9700 Pro has 19.84 GB/sec of bandwidth. At 128-bit data path but 1000 Mhz the NV30 will have 16 GB/sec of bandwidth, a difference of 3.84 GB/sec. 3.84 / 16 = 24%.

Here is some new information. On October 15, Joe Macri, the director of technology at ATI presented on the television show The Screen Savers, TechTV network, a revised 9700 PRO, one with 500 Mhz (1000 Mhz) DDR2 memory. This board has a memory bandwidth of 32 GB/sec. Search the net I think some people were trying host a video clip of that TV segment.

<A HREF="http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,599314,00.asp?kc=ETTH102099TX1K0100486" target="_new">Link to description of ATI's new memory specification</A>.

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 10/18/02 10:46 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[phsstpok]

Is 1000MHz DDR enough for the nv30?

No it is not enough. Read my other post.

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b>

 

[chuck232]

Wait now.. Isn't DDRII 128bit? Kinda like the 32bit RIMM modules compared to the 16bit DC ones? So wouldn't DDRII be like DC DDR RAM in one module? Or am I missing something here?

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...

 

[phsstpok]

We're talking chips not PC DIMM modules. The manufacturer can use the chips in any combination he likes, in this case a 256-bit data path. You might be right though, in a sense. 128-bit might be the minimum data path for DDR2 but ATI is definitely using a 256-bit path.

Have any link for specs on the DRAMS? I can only find the JEDEC proposals which would be memory modules.

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 10/18/02 11:18 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[nexus_alpha]

This is not going to calm the ATI users down, cause the nv30 better whupp ATI's ass big time if not its going to be disappointing. Why do I say that think about it 1 ghz ddr versus 55omhz ddr .13 micron fab versus .15 micron fab etc. just by the technology. If the nv30 does NOT wupp( when I mean whupp I mean beats it by at LEAST twice in benchmarks) ATI's ass then one must wonder what will the ddrII .13 micron altered pipes of the r350 do early next year just when the nv30 hits reasonable mass production.------I guess that's one of the reasons I like Intel and nvidia. They are always up to surprises. They don't need to hype their products 1-2 years before the release and give away all the details months ----------hope you not talking about the r9700 because details were sketchy until 2 days before launch and exactly one month later the cards were avaliable for purchase. UNLIKE the NV30 were very few weeks new leaks and Nvidia hyping the nv30 architecture via the cg graphics presentation blah blah blah for months now and still no card.To make matters worse onlly limited production of the card this year and mass production next year.OH please Intel yes but nVIDIA no the are all about PR and hype and alot more than ATI I mean whats with the nvidia logo at the start of unreal 2003 hope ATI does not try to pull of something similar. Plus the money is not made with fastest cards but the value segment $150 -$250 range thats where the money be, nVIDIA did a nice job to win this segment but r9500 cometh and things could change notice I say could.

 

[phsstpok]

Hey, now my reply doesn't make sense.

It looks like I'm explaining things to you for no reason.

Please don't edit a post after people have already replied, except for typos and clarification of course.

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b>

 

[chuck232]

I edited my post at 12:06. You entered your post at 12:09... lol

Yeah, I was a bit confused there. Sorry about the editing.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...

 

[phsstpok]

No need to appologize. You didn't know. Sorry I blamed you. It was my fault but I've been burned by edits before. I was in the habit of cutting and pasting but I was lazy.

Took me too long to write my reply and it took the server forever to accept it.

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b>

 

[Crashman]

Hmm, I've done a few edits before, but usually to clarify myself rather than add information. Did I do a WHOOOPS to you?

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>

 

[phsstpok]

Why no, you didn't. Do you have a guilty conscience?

Edits are fine especially if the edits are marked.

The kind of changes I'm talking about are deleting complete paragraphs, trains of thought, etc after someone has already replied.

For instance, Chuck232 asked AMD_Man how he came to the conclusion that the 1000 Mhz DDR2 on NV30 would need a 24% better performance to match the 9700 Pro's 620 Mhz DDR. I was explaining it is all about bandwidth.

Chuck232 essentially deleted that paragraph and changed his message. I thought he did it after I had posted my reply and I thought that was rude. I was mistaken and have apologized to Chuck232 but the content of his original post is still missing so my reply is out of context.

In another incident I was arguing with someone over video benchmarks. He provided links and I discredited the benchmarks as being invalid to the argument. So he went back and edited his orignal message putting in different links. The new links had benchmarks that were valid to the argument but it made reply look inept, rude, and plain wrong. I don't mind being proven wrong but why not just post a new message and ask, "how about these benchmarks?" instead of being sneaky just to make oneself look good and someone else look bad. That's what I mean by being "burned".

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b>

 

[chuck232]

Lol... I know what you mean. I didn't take any offence from your post there, so no harm done!

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...

 

[Crashman]

Oh, well I've changed my post without marking them to clarify a statement. If I mark them as changed, people will think I <i>changed</i> my statement. Which would be no good. Because I don't changing the <i>meaning</i> of my statements, I see no point in marking them.

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>

 

[phsstpok]

I sometimes do the same thing. I fix typos and clarify things that I have said. Sometimes I don't comment the changes. Once, someone called me on this noting that my post had been edited and wanted to know what I had changed. So I try to comment changes when I remember to do so then everyone knows.

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b>

 

[flamethrower205]

Maybe NV is just trying to do what Intel did.....have high clock speed, but sh!t performance. Maybe they just wanna trick the market. I dunno, I mean 128 bit vs 256 is something big, and if they do want it to compete and have good card in the future, they better have something up their sleeve. I mean if R350 or whatever comes out and rapes it in all 2 holes (assume it's male) then wtf. Maybe they're doing something where u have multiple voltages represent 0 and 1 , meaning u get 2x or more data throughput. Maybe it's magic and pulls 38GB/s. Who knows. I ain't an Ati fanboy (and AMD_Man ur prolly thinking wtf, why is Flame speaking out against NV) but they better get their act together and pull some mucho crazy vid card or else.

What if you had admin rights to life?

 

[AMD_Man]

Not so fast there flamethrower. We have no idea how DDR2 performance is relative to DDR performance per clock. If DDR2 turns out say 50% faster per clock than DDR then potentially the NV30 may be 10 to 15% faster than the R9700.

Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.

 

[flamethrower205]

Yay, 15% faster. That's always good. Then R350 comes out.

What if you had admin rights to life?

 

[Dark_Archonis]

neck to neck.. what are you saying? Nvidia has <b>blattantly</b> stated that even though the NV30 has a 128-bit memory interface, it will still have a higher memory <b>performance</b> than the 9700 Pro. You seriously don't believe that Nvidia can pull it off? I'd like to see your reaction when the benches for NV30 are released and it turns out to be faster than the 9700 Pro. Memory bandwith isn't everything, it's also important as to how you use the memory bandwith. Nvidia will probably have done something clever to squeeze all the performance it can out of the NV30. I mean look at the Parhelia, it uses a 256-bit memory interface, but it has crappy performance.

And as you stated AMD_Man, DDR2 could very well have a higher bandwith, and NV30 very well may have a higher bandwith.

Flamethrower, I wouldn't worry if I were you. No doubt Nvidia will implement Cg optimizations, along with some other tricks in the Detonator 5 drivers, on top of using a clever memory architecture for the NV30. Nvidia is very confident that NV30 will blow the 9700 Pro out of the water.

- - -
<font color=green>All good things must come to an end … so they can be replaced by better things! </font color=green>

 

[flamethrower205]

Dude, I dun care about the 9700 Pro, I'm almost sure it will otherwise NV wouldn't be dumb enough to release a card like that. I'm looking more towards the future, I mean to me then NV is worthless if it can't stay ahead of the game.

What if you had admin rights to life?

 

[eden]

I never thought RAM bandwidth can be better per clock. All it does is transport data. In the graphics card world, bandwidth is another story, you try to consolidate more data and save on bandwidth, yet still use the full bit-path on each clock. But I don't understand how there is "performance per clock" other than bit paths.

--
"Let Go." -Avril Lavigne

 

[AMD_Man]

I don't know really. I have no idea how DDR2 improves on DDR. What's different about it? Has anyone seen a link on the improvements in DDR2? If DDR2 has significantly less latency, then yes, there may be some performance increases.

Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.