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Question about running a router off another router on a ho..

Last response: in Wireless Networking
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June 24, 2004 7:08:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,comp.networks,comp.os.ms-windows.networking,comp.home.automation,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

I had a question:


I have a cable modem going into a wireless router with a printer port
and 4 ethernet ports.

can I just hookup another non wireless router to one of the ports on
the wireless router to increase the number of ports...

The wireless router is a dlink d-713p.. It assigns IP address
through DNS I think .. I assume it would just assign an ip address to
the new router and then that new router would assign ip addresses to
all the locations in the house.

I have the house wired for internet and need another 20 ports or so..
Sorry about not know all the terminolgy here..

Is there any special kind of router I need?

THanks

J
Anonymous
June 25, 2004 3:12:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,comp.networks,comp.os.ms-windows.networking,comp.home.automation,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

jasonnews@mail.com (Jason) wrote in news:D 5d88e7c.0406241408.60e7d156
@posting.google.com:

> I had a question:
>
>
> I have a cable modem going into a wireless router with a printer port
> and 4 ethernet ports.
>
> can I just hookup another non wireless router to one of the ports on
> the wireless router to increase the number of ports...

If it were me I would reverse the order and have the wired router as the
gateway device for the LAN and WAN. The wired router would be the DHCP
server for all machines and all machines wired or wireless would get an
IP from the DHCP server on the wired router.
>
> The wireless router is a dlink d-713p.. It assigns IP address
> through DNS I think .. I assume it would just assign an ip address to
> the new router and then that new router would assign ip addresses to
> all the locations in the house.

I would take the wireless router and disable the DHCP server on the
wireless router. I would take the wireless router and connect it to the
wired router LAN port on the wireless router to LAN port on the wired
router -- not using the WAN port on the wireless router at all.

By doing that, the wireless router now becomes a wireless/wire switch and
wired and wireless machines connected to it would get an IP from the DHCP
server on the wired router.

I would set the device IP of the wireless routers to a static IP of the
wired router. As an example, if the device IP of the wired router was
192.168.1.1 and its DHCP IP(s) that it issued started at 192.168.1.100,
then the device IP for the wireless router would be static IP of
192.168.2.1.

By doing the above, any machine connected to the wired router would be
able to get to the Admin screen of the wireless router at 192.168.2.1. Of
course, any machine connected to the wireless would be able to get to the
Admin screen of the wired router at 192.168.1.1.

Now, I would be able to connect a stand alone hub or switch to either
router and daisy chain hubs or switches together to extend the network.

Of course with the setup, all machines wired or wireless and no matter
what router they were connected too would be able to share resources and
connect to the Internet.

If the wireless router has a router or gateway setting, the router should
be set to the router setting. If it doesn't have the setting, then it's
ok.

I would set the number of DHCP IP(s) that can be issued to the number of
machines to be used. That's not much on the wireless security from a
wireless machine that's not part of your network. But I guess it's better
than nothing.

Oh, I didn't see the printer port. So you can set the wired router as the
switch.

Duane :) 
Anonymous
June 25, 2004 3:35:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,comp.networks,comp.os.ms-windows.networking,comp.home.automation,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

On 24 Jun 2004 15:08:33 -0700, jasonnews@mail.com (Jason) wrote:

>I had a question:
>
>
>I have a cable modem going into a wireless router with a printer port
>and 4 ethernet ports.
>
>can I just hookup another non wireless router to one of the ports on
>the wireless router to increase the number of ports...
>
>The wireless router is a dlink d-713p.. It assigns IP address
>through DNS I think .. I assume it would just assign an ip address to
>the new router and then that new router would assign ip addresses to
>all the locations in the house.
>
>I have the house wired for internet and need another 20 ports or so..
>Sorry about not know all the terminolgy here..
>
>Is there any special kind of router I need?

I've connected a netgear wireless to a d-link wireless router,
with the d-link assigning an ip address to the netgear. I had to
manually ssign the DNS server IP addresses in the netgear, but
other wise I could access the net wirelessly via either router.
Related resources
Anonymous
June 25, 2004 9:55:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,comp.networks,comp.os.ms-windows.networking,comp.home.automation,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

Jason wrote:

> I had a question:
>
>
> I have a cable modem going into a wireless router with a printer port
> and 4 ethernet ports.
>
> can I just hookup another non wireless router to one of the ports on
> the wireless router to increase the number of ports...

Why another router vs. just a switch or hub?

Extra protection?


EBay a simple 16 port switch and you'll have 18 ports (one on each
gets used connecting them; you work out the details on if you
have an "uplink" on either).

But putting the whole wireless thing on a DMZ is a good thing
since WEP is a simple crack and you're running vulnerable machines
on your network. (and cross posting ruthlessly).

Do you HAVE 20 computers? If not, there is no reason to plug in
20 (mostly unused) ports.

> The wireless router is a dlink d-713p.. It assigns IP address
> through DNS I think .. I assume it would just assign an ip address to
> the new router and then that new router would assign ip addresses to
> all the locations in the house.
>
> I have the house wired for internet and need another 20 ports or so..
> Sorry about not know all the terminolgy here..
>
> Is there any special kind of router I need?
Hub. Switch (really). < $80.
Anonymous
June 25, 2004 12:51:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,comp.networks,comp.os.ms-windows.networking,comp.home.automation,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

On 24 Jun 2004 15:08:33 -0700, jasonnews@mail.com (Jason) uncorked the
following:

|>I had a question:
|>
|>
|>I have a cable modem going into a wireless router with a printer port
|>and 4 ethernet ports.
|>
|>can I just hookup another non wireless router to one of the ports on
|>the wireless router to increase the number of ports...
|>
|>The wireless router is a dlink d-713p.. It assigns IP address
|>through DNS I think .. I assume it would just assign an ip address to
|>the new router and then that new router would assign ip addresses to
|>all the locations in the house.
|>
|>I have the house wired for internet and need another 20 ports or so..
|>Sorry about not know all the terminolgy here..
|>
|>Is there any special kind of router I need?
|>
|>THanks
|>
|>J

<< cross posting not snipped >>>

Newsgroups:
alt.internet.wireless,comp.networks,comp.os.ms-windows.networking,comp.home.automation,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet


Pick a group ... ANY f'n group.
Anonymous
June 25, 2004 5:42:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,comp.networks,comp.os.ms-windows.networking,comp.home.automation,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

Simply connect a 24 port switch/hub to one of the wireless router's ethernet
ports.

--
Ross
"Jason" <jasonnews@mail.com> wrote in message
news:D 5d88e7c.0406241408.60e7d156@posting.google.com...
> I had a question:
>
>
> I have a cable modem going into a wireless router with a printer port
> and 4 ethernet ports.
>
> can I just hookup another non wireless router to one of the ports on
> the wireless router to increase the number of ports...
>
> The wireless router is a dlink d-713p.. It assigns IP address
> through DNS I think .. I assume it would just assign an ip address to
> the new router and then that new router would assign ip addresses to
> all the locations in the house.
>
> I have the house wired for internet and need another 20 ports or so..
> Sorry about not know all the terminolgy here..
>
> Is there any special kind of router I need?
>
> THanks
>
> J
Anonymous
June 25, 2004 5:42:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,comp.networks,comp.os.ms-windows.networking,comp.home.automation,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

"Ross Durie" <rdurie@caverock.net.nz> wrote in
news:SpLCc.3733$LT3.142962@news.xtra.co.nz:

> Simply connect a 24 port switch/hub to one of the wireless router's
> ethernet ports.
>
> --

Well you moron I gave the solution the OP asked for. Any clown *that's
you* can hook a hub or a switch up to a router and be done with it.

The solution I gave works perfectly well when I reconfigured my Linksys
BEFW11S4 so that I could connect it to my WatchGuard and still have a
wireless solution.

There is always some clown loose on the Internet. <g>

Duane :) 
Anonymous
June 27, 2004 2:19:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,comp.networks,comp.os.ms-windows.networking,comp.home.automation,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

> I have a cable modem going into a wireless router with a printer port
> and 4 ethernet ports.


Many homes today have this. I've got one here. Actually I have more than two
but for the sake of discussion...

> can I just hookup another non wireless router to one of the ports on
> the wireless router to increase the number of ports...


Don't bother with this unless you already have the other unit. Just plug a
switch in the dlink and cascade other devices off it. Just be sure not to
cascade more than three levels deep.

> I have the house wired for internet and need another 20 ports or so..
> Sorry about not know all the terminolgy here..

Get yourself a pair of 16 port switches. Or four 8 port switches. Just try to
avoid daisy-chaining them as there are some ethernet latency issues that have to
be avoided.

If you try chaining another 'router' off the wireless unit you introduce several
rather complex issues. There are some situations where you'd want the wireless
set up as what's referred to as a DMZ. This is where the wireless network is
considered not-secure and is isolated from the internal network. Setting up
something like this is less-than-trivial (for most folks) and introduces a
number of complicating factors. Namely the devices running on the wireless
segment won't be able to see the stuff on the wired-side without some extra
configuration efforts on both sides. I do this here, my wireless devices all
speak IPsec and the wired router is specifically configured to recognize and
pass their traffic to the wired-side. I wouldn't recommend this for most
homeowners as it requires all the wireless devices to have IPsec loaded and be
configured properly.

The real trouble you run into is the home router devices have different levels
of features. Most don't have the option to be configured for more sophisticated
setups.

I run things:

ISP DSL into a DSL modem
DSL modem into a NAT router
switches off the NAT router
IPSec vpn server on wired network
wifi home router off a switch port
various wifi devices with IPsec VPN.

The wifi home router is configured to pass the IPsec VPN traffic to a specific
IP address on the internal wired network. The outside NAT router is also
configured for it (to allow connecting to the home network from work or travel).
The internal network runs in one of the 192.168.0.0/24 subnet. The wifi network
runs in another. The home NAT router has a special static route setup to handle
using the IPsec server to speak back TO the wifi devices. Again, most people
aren't going to take this many steps.

When you try to chain one home router off another you end up with, essentially,
double routing of NAT traffic. This can make for doubly-complicated setups for
devices on the other side. The issue being the wired devices won't be able to
"see" the wifi devices without extra static route setups. There's also the
possibility that both devices might balk at trying to do so as many are
hard-coded to use only non-routable networks.

In short, your easiest solution might be to just hang a switch or two off the
wifi router.

-Bill Kearney
Anonymous
June 27, 2004 2:20:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,comp.networks (More info?)

> Well you moron I gave the solution the OP asked for. Any clown *that's
> you* can hook a hub or a switch up to a router and be done with it.

The guy also asked if he needed something special, he doesn't. Switches will be
his least painful choice.

> The solution I gave works perfectly well when I reconfigured my Linksys
> BEFW11S4 so that I could connect it to my WatchGuard and still have a
> wireless solution.
>
> There is always some clown loose on the Internet. <g>

And no shortage of 'self-righteous' ones too.
Anonymous
June 27, 2004 7:42:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,comp.networks,comp.os.ms-windows.networking,comp.home.automation,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

"wkearney99" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:z8GdnYUWLu_iSkPdRVn-sQ@speakeasy.net:

>> I have a cable modem going into a wireless router with a printer port
>> and 4 ethernet ports.
>
>
> Many homes today have this. I've got one here. Actually I have more
> than two but for the sake of discussion...
>
>> can I just hookup another non wireless router to one of the ports on
>> the wireless router to increase the number of ports...
>
>
> Don't bother with this unless you already have the other unit. Just
> plug a switch in the dlink and cascade other devices off it. Just be
> sure not to cascade more than three levels deep.
>
>> I have the house wired for internet and need another 20 ports or so..
>> Sorry about not know all the terminolgy here..
>
> Get yourself a pair of 16 port switches. Or four 8 port switches.
> Just try to avoid daisy-chaining them as there are some ethernet
> latency issues that have to be avoided.
>
> If you try chaining another 'router' off the wireless unit you
> introduce several rather complex issues. There are some situations
> where you'd want the wireless set up as what's referred to as a DMZ.
> This is where the wireless network is considered not-secure and is
> isolated from the internal network. Setting up something like this is
> less-than-trivial (for most folks) and introduces a number of
> complicating factors. Namely the devices running on the wireless
> segment won't be able to see the stuff on the wired-side without some
> extra configuration efforts on both sides. I do this here, my
> wireless devices all speak IPsec and the wired router is specifically
> configured to recognize and pass their traffic to the wired-side. I
> wouldn't recommend this for most homeowners as it requires all the
> wireless devices to have IPsec loaded and be configured properly.
>
> The real trouble you run into is the home router devices have
> different levels of features. Most don't have the option to be
> configured for more sophisticated setups.
>
> I run things:
>
> ISP DSL into a DSL modem
> DSL modem into a NAT router
> switches off the NAT router
> IPSec vpn server on wired network
> wifi home router off a switch port
> various wifi devices with IPsec VPN.
>
> The wifi home router is configured to pass the IPsec VPN traffic to a
> specific IP address on the internal wired network. The outside NAT
> router is also configured for it (to allow connecting to the home
> network from work or travel). The internal network runs in one of the
> 192.168.0.0/24 subnet. The wifi network runs in another. The home
> NAT router has a special static route setup to handle using the IPsec
> server to speak back TO the wifi devices. Again, most people aren't
> going to take this many steps.
>
> When you try to chain one home router off another you end up with,
> essentially, double routing of NAT traffic. This can make for
> doubly-complicated setups for devices on the other side. The issue
> being the wired devices won't be able to "see" the wifi devices
> without extra static route setups. There's also the possibility that
> both devices might balk at trying to do so as many are hard-coded to
> use only non-routable networks.
>
> In short, your easiest solution might be to just hang a switch or two
> off the wifi router.
>
> -Bill Kearney
>

You can take a righteous router, switch or hub turn one vertical and
grease it up and stick it up you know where. <g>

Duane :) 
Anonymous
June 28, 2004 1:09:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,comp.networks (More info?)

"Ross Durie" <rdurie@caverock.net.nz> wrote in
news:8nLCc.3730$LT3.142930@news.xtra.co.nz:

> What a lot of garbage.
>
> --

You can cry about it elsewhere. <plonk>

As a matter of fact, let me <plonk> the entire thread you moron.

Duane :) 
Anonymous
July 3, 2004 1:13:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,comp.networks,comp.os.ms-windows.networking,comp.home.automation,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

Don't add a router, add a switch or hub, they are cheaper, designed to do
exactly what you are trying to do and are simply plugged in,and unless you
are running an exotic setup, will require no configuration. If the new
hub/switch doesn't have a WAN port you will need to use a crossover cable,
but that's the only special requirement.

"Jason" <jasonnews@mail.com> wrote in message
news:D 5d88e7c.0406241408.60e7d156@posting.google.com...
> I had a question:
>
>
> I have a cable modem going into a wireless router with a printer port
> and 4 ethernet ports.
>
> can I just hookup another non wireless router to one of the ports on
> the wireless router to increase the number of ports...
>
> The wireless router is a dlink d-713p.. It assigns IP address
> through DNS I think .. I assume it would just assign an ip address to
> the new router and then that new router would assign ip addresses to
> all the locations in the house.
>
> I have the house wired for internet and need another 20 ports or so..
> Sorry about not know all the terminolgy here..
>
> Is there any special kind of router I need?
>
> THanks
>
> J
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 1:12:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,comp.networks,comp.os.ms-windows.networking,comp.home.automation,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

Jason wrote:

> have the house wired for internet and need another 20 ports or so..
> Sorry about not know all the terminolgy here..
>
> Is there any special kind of router I need?
>

I realize my reply is a bit late (I just joined this group). However, all
you need is one or more switches connected to your router. Many routers
can support up to 253 computers, but have only four ports. You can plug
the "uplink" port of a switch into any of those four ports. You can get
switches with various numbers of ports, but 8 is probably the most common.
A 16 port switch should also be readily available. You can connect up to 4
switches directly to the 4 port routers.

Incidentally, you could also use hubs, instead of switches, but they're now
considered obsolete.
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 1:16:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless,comp.networks,comp.os.ms-windows.networking,comp.home.automation,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

wkearney99 wrote:

> Don't bother with this unless you already have the other unit.  Just plug
> a switch in the dlink and cascade other devices off it.  Just be sure not
> to cascade more than three levels deep.
>
>> I have the house wired for internet and need another 20 ports or so..
>> Sorry about not know all the terminolgy here..
>
> Get yourself a pair of 16 port switches.  Or four 8 port switches.  Just
> try to avoid daisy-chaining them as there are some ethernet latency issues
> that have to be avoided.

Those latency issues refer to hubs, not switches. Each port on a switch, is
a circuit, completely independent of the other ports. In hubs, the added
delays, caused by passing through multiple devices, could interfere with
ethernet collision detection.
!