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New Beginning -- Seeks Advice

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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 2, 2005 6:35:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

I've tried various games -- like World of Warcraft which has bored me to
tears after a few months and Guild Wars which is just too cold and
distant for my taste.

Yes, I'm going back to Diablo II. (It's either that or Wizardy 8, but I"m
not sure I have the will for that one!)

Play like I'm just starting out.

I like Melee, Paladin, Barbarian. Hell, even Amazon bows! I'm ok with
but not wild about Necromancer and Sorceress. Druids seem worthless to
me.

I want to play straight games, not twinked or items spirited over from
other builds.

Any suggestions? What version? Early on like 1.02? Later like 1.09? New
1.11?

What about a good build to work through? Paladin with conversion? No
hammers, please. Barbarian with bazooka?

Ok, reach back into your Diablo book of knowledge and feel free to
suggest!

Thanks!


Swami River

More about : beginning seeks advice

September 2, 2005 6:35:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

SwamiRiver wrote:
> I've tried various games -- like World of Warcraft which has bored me to
> tears after a few months and Guild Wars which is just too cold and
> distant for my taste.
>
> Yes, I'm going back to Diablo II. (It's either that or Wizardy 8, but I"m
> not sure I have the will for that one!)
>

Welcome back!

> Play like I'm just starting out.
>
> I like Melee, Paladin, Barbarian. Hell, even Amazon bows! I'm ok with
> but not wild about Necromancer and Sorceress. Druids seem worthless to
> me.
>
> I want to play straight games, not twinked or items spirited over from
> other builds.
>
> Any suggestions? What version? Early on like 1.02? Later like 1.09? New
> 1.11?
>

Go straight to 1.11. Everyone here is on that (except for a few CE Mod
phreaks [sic]).

> What about a good build to work through? Paladin with conversion? No
> hammers, please. Barbarian with bazooka?
>

Is is simply your goal to finish the game, or to finish the game in
style? are you HC? I'd start with a simple concentrate/berserk 1h
weapon & shield combo. That's great to get you back in the game. He's
durable, has good defense, is a stable killer, and generally can go
anywhere solo. The only drawback is that he's slooooow, but that's only
really an issue in a multiplayer game (where the tempo is generally too
fast for my tastes anyway).

-Jason
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 2, 2005 6:35:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

I should really get a cut-and-paste answer prepared for this one.

The answer is... it depends. What are your goals? Are you
intending to finish hell? Start hell? Magic Find? Softcore?
Hardcore? etc. etc. Anyway, all that aside and assuming you want
to finish hell, you have easy options and hard options.

"Easy" options are basically spell casters and ranged chars (in my
opinion) in this order: Skellimancer, Hammerdin, Trapsin, Various
Bone/CE Necro variants, Lightning Zon, Wind Druid, CookieSorc.
"Hard" options are meleers: kicksin, weredruid, melee barb, melee
pally (probably in that order). Most others are more difficult
variants for "experts" or rich players.

For an interesting challenge - not too hard and not too easy with
possibilities to complete hell I would recommend a weredruid with
fury and fireclaws or a kicksin with 20 points in dragon talon,
venom and death sentry, a point in blade fury and a few points in
shadow master.

Version: 1.11 (why not?)

Ian
Related resources
September 2, 2005 6:35:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

SwamiRiver wrote:
> To respond particularly to your kind words (and the other posting I saw
> this morning) help me understand 1.11. For the average player, what has
> it done? I know 1.10 really tilted the balance away from melee and
> favored magic, killing bowazons in the process. Any such defining
> characteristic with 1.11?

1.10 (and 1.11) basically made the game more like real life, where
attacking melee style is a lot less prefered than attacking from a
distance, and using henchmen/minions is even better (since it's their
skin, not yours, that gets fried).

That said, melee chars are still very viable, you just have to
understand and appreciate all of the crowd control skills that are
available, and be a lot more patient than previously. 1.10 added
synergies, which act like masteries in many ways, allowing you to pump
up damage far beyond what was previously possible. However, to use
synergies, you need to sacrifice a lot of flexibility. That's ok in
party play, but deadly for solo players. The only synergy (barbarian
wise) that is really nice is the battle orders -> concentrate synergy.
Those two seem to go hand in hand. (Also the war cries adding to each
other's durations is very nice, making battle command and shout
one-point-wonders).

-Jason
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 2, 2005 10:38:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

"SwamiRiver" <dearme@so.xyz> wrote in message
news:Xns96C5618C88FD1theSwami@207.115.17.102...
> I've tried various games -- like World of Warcraft which has bored me to
> tears after a few months and Guild Wars which is just too cold and
> distant for my taste.
>
> Yes, I'm going back to Diablo II. (It's either that or Wizardy 8, but I"m
> not sure I have the will for that one!)
>
> Play like I'm just starting out.
>
> I like Melee, Paladin, Barbarian. Hell, even Amazon bows! I'm ok with
> but not wild about Necromancer and Sorceress. Druids seem worthless to
> me.
>
> I want to play straight games, not twinked or items spirited over from
> other builds.

Try a fanta/zeal paladin, easy to find weapons that are good enough, paladin
shields are plentiful and can have great mods. Plan on using a throwing
weapon or bow on switch to deal with the iron maiden spell cast by the OK
knights.

This character is easy to play, has decent crowd control skills, and is a
fast killer. For success in hell, you'll need good items, but all melee
characters do. Hopefully by then, you'll have found some, or be able to
gamble/craft/runeword whatever you need.

> Any suggestions? What version? Early on like 1.02? Later like 1.09? New
> 1.11?

If you plan on playing on the realms (closed b'net), you won't have a
choice, it must be 1.11

1.10 & 1.11 are MUCH harder in hell difficulty than any previous versions,
but I'd suggest 1.11 even for single player play, as that's what the
community is playing now.

> What about a good build to work through? Paladin with conversion? No
> hammers, please. Barbarian with bazooka?
>
> Ok, reach back into your Diablo book of knowledge and feel free to
> suggest!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Swami River

Here is a link for some ideas on character builds:
http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/d2_guides.php

Good luck,

Ruben
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 4, 2005 12:22:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On 2 Sep 2005 08:43:37 -0700, Ian Oversby wrote:

> Version: 1.11 (why not?)

Possible reason why 1.09 might be better for him is because he wants to
play SP only. 1.10 and 1.11 are not all that much fun in SP Hell.

M.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 4, 2005 9:38:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:35:27 GMT, SwamiRiver <dearme@so.xyz> wrote:

>Yes, I'm going back to Diablo II. (It's either that or Wizardy 8, but I"m
>not sure I have the will for that one!)

Yeah I do that from time to time too. Oldies but goodies...

>Play like I'm just starting out.

Untwinked is the best way to play.

>I like Melee, Paladin, Barbarian. Hell, even Amazon bows! I'm ok with
>but not wild about Necromancer and Sorceress. Druids seem worthless to
>me.

Tried Javazon yet? It's surprisingly fun, and they're some great tanks when they
need to be as well.

Also, Druids are generally boring/unattractive to me, too, but I played a Wind
druid to about 60th level or so (got all the way through nightmare mode into
act1/hell), and once you hit 30th, you can pretty much just keep cyclone running
and watch stuff die. Crank it to players 8 and enjoy. :) 

The link is here:
http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=547

>I want to play straight games, not twinked or items spirited over from
>other builds.

That's the best way to play, like I said above.

>Any suggestions? What version? Early on like 1.02? Later like 1.09? New
>1.11?

Always the latest version, man.

>What about a good build to work through? Paladin with conversion? No
>hammers, please. Barbarian with bazooka?

ASSASSIN
In 1.09d I liked the hybrid assassin which goes something like:

tiger claw
max phoenix strike
claw mastery
burst of speed
1 fade
1 mind blast
shadow master
1 death sentry

AMAZON
I also liked the javazon which goes something like:
max lightning fury
5 dodge
1 avoid
5 evade
valkyrie
1 decoy
1 slow missiles

you can throw in some guided arrow and bow skills if you want to be hybrid like
flux's guide (http://www.diabloii.net/strategy/x-guides/javazon_Flux1...)
suggests. i personally don't like the buriza and kuko is a pathetic substitute,
and nothing else reaches near that kind of damage output/piercing/cold damage so
i just tend to do without bows.

BARBARIAN
Never played a barb (usually in most games i think barbarians are stupid and
lack a requirement of player skill) but I think this build looks interesting:
http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=506

PALADIN
I pretty much prefer the Avenger paladin over all other variations:
http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=510

I usually don't go all the way to max level, though (usually top out at 75 or
80, highest I've ever gone is 85), so I usually go with

20 conviction
5 holy shield
10 resist fire
10 resist lightning
10 resist cold
20 vengeance

the other 15 points in holy shield is mainly just for defense rating anyway, as
far as i can tell.

>Ok, reach back into your Diablo book of knowledge and feel free to
>suggest!

See above, then.

>Thanks!

You're welcome, Swami.

cheers,
eudas
Inside of every silver lining, there's a big, dark cloud.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 4, 2005 10:02:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 05:38:19 GMT, eudas <eudas@kdi.com> wrote:

>AMAZON
>I also liked the javazon which goes something like:
>max lightning fury
>5 dodge
>1 avoid
>5 evade
>valkyrie
>1 decoy
>1 slow missiles
>
>you can throw in some guided arrow and bow skills if you want to be hybrid like
>flux's guide (http://www.diabloii.net/strategy/x-guides/javazon_Flux1...)
>suggests. i personally don't like the buriza and kuko is a pathetic substitute,
>and nothing else reaches near that kind of damage output/piercing/cold damage so
>i just tend to do without bows.

i forgot to mention that on this build i usually put 1 point into jab as well.

eudas
Inside of every silver lining, there's a big, dark cloud.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 5, 2005 5:32:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Good point! :) 

Ian
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 6, 2005 1:10:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

eudas <eudas@kdi.com> wrote in
news:6s0lh1tnu22k9a02tj5pr0b0t2p6nomrd4@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:35:27 GMT, SwamiRiver <dearme@so.xyz> wrote:
>
>>Yes, I'm going back to Diablo II. (It's either that or Wizardy 8, but
>>I"m not sure I have the will for that one!)
>
> Yeah I do that from time to time too. Oldies but goodies...
>
>>Play like I'm just starting out.
>
> Untwinked is the best way to play.
>
>>I like Melee, Paladin, Barbarian. Hell, even Amazon bows! I'm ok
with
>>but not wild about Necromancer and Sorceress. Druids seem worthless
to
>>me.
>
> Tried Javazon yet? It's surprisingly fun, and they're some great
tanks
> when they need to be as well.
>
> Also, Druids are generally boring/unattractive to me, too, but I
> played a Wind druid to about 60th level or so (got all the way
through
> nightmare mode into act1/hell), and once you hit 30th, you can pretty
> much just keep cyclone running and watch stuff die. Crank it to
> players 8 and enjoy. :) 
>
> The link is here:
> http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=547
>
>>I want to play straight games, not twinked or items spirited over
from
>>other builds.
>
> That's the best way to play, like I said above.
>
>>Any suggestions? What version? Early on like 1.02? Later like 1.09?
>>New 1.11?
>
> Always the latest version, man.
>
>>What about a good build to work through? Paladin with conversion? No
>>hammers, please. Barbarian with bazooka?
>
> ASSASSIN
> In 1.09d I liked the hybrid assassin which goes something like:
>
> tiger claw
> max phoenix strike
> claw mastery
> burst of speed
> 1 fade
> 1 mind blast
> shadow master
> 1 death sentry
>
> AMAZON
> I also liked the javazon which goes something like:
> max lightning fury
> 5 dodge
> 1 avoid
> 5 evade
> valkyrie
> 1 decoy
> 1 slow missiles
>
> you can throw in some guided arrow and bow skills if you want to be
> hybrid like flux's guide
> (http://www.diabloii.net/strategy/x-guides/javazon_Flux1...)
> suggests. i personally don't like the buriza and kuko is a pathetic
> substitute, and nothing else reaches near that kind of damage
> output/piercing/cold damage so i just tend to do without bows.
>
> BARBARIAN
> Never played a barb (usually in most games i think barbarians are
> stupid and lack a requirement of player skill) but I think this build
> looks interesting: http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=506
>
> PALADIN
> I pretty much prefer the Avenger paladin over all other variations:
> http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=510
>
> I usually don't go all the way to max level, though (usually top out
> at 75 or 80, highest I've ever gone is 85), so I usually go with
>
> 20 conviction
> 5 holy shield
> 10 resist fire
> 10 resist lightning
> 10 resist cold
> 20 vengeance
>
> the other 15 points in holy shield is mainly just for defense rating
> anyway, as far as i can tell.
>
>>Ok, reach back into your Diablo book of knowledge and feel free to
>>suggest!
>
> See above, then.
>
>>Thanks!
>
> You're welcome, Swami.
>
> cheers,
> eudas
> Inside of every silver lining, there's a big, dark cloud.


Just wanted to take a moment and thank you personally for such a great
post. Spending any time on the Net, either on what's left of Usenet or
over in forums, will tell anyone that your reply is wonderful and rare.

Best wishes to you.

Swami
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 6, 2005 2:22:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 21:10:21 GMT, SwamiRiver <dearme@so.xyz> wrote:

>Just wanted to take a moment and thank you personally for such a great
>post. Spending any time on the Net, either on what's left of Usenet or
>over in forums, will tell anyone that your reply is wonderful and rare.
>
>Best wishes to you.
>
>Swami

thank you sir, you are most welcome.

if you wish further advice, feel free to consult me.

eudas
Inside of every silver lining, there's a big, dark cloud.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 6, 2005 5:47:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005, "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoot.co.nz> wrote:

>> eudas wrote:
>>
>> <Snip>
>>
>> > eudas
>> > Inside of every silver lining, there's a big, dark cloud.
>>
>> Shouldn't that be "*Outside* of every silver lining there's a big, dark
>> cloud."?

No.

>> Last time I looked the word 'lining' refered to the inside of something.
>> Sorry to be pedantic, I can't help it. :-)

We know. so we'll be patient.

"Every dark cloud has its silver lining" => "inside every silver lining
is a big dark cloud". The (silver) lining is the same, the content of
said lining is the same, the perspective has switched.

--

Chaos Empire mod: Webwalker
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 7, 2005 2:23:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005, "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoot.co.nz> wrote:

>> Brian Brunner wrote:
>> > "Every dark cloud has its silver lining" => "inside every silver
>> > lining is a big dark cloud". The (silver) lining is the same, the
>> > content of said lining is the same,
>>
>> Lining, by definition, doesn't have 'content'.

The lining of my chest cavity (parapleura) has no content? I know it
has lungs in it.
My pericardium has no content? That's where my heart is... I hope I
have one...

>> > the perspective has switched.
>>
>> Drugs will do that to you.

I said nothing about the sobriety of the person engaging in the
perspective switch. Cerebral Toxicity is NOT my bailiwick. I can,
however, parse the expressions: Every dark cloud has it's silver lining,
and every silver lining has a dark cloud in it.

(I don't personally agree with the logic there, as A->B does not certify
that B->A; if every dark cloud has it's silver lining, then there are at
least as many silver linings as there are dark clouds; now, if there are
more silver linings than there are dark clouds then (barring the
possibility that any one dark cloud may have more than one silver
lining) there are at least some silver linings that do NOT have dark
clouds in them.)

*sigh* logic is so un-welcome in so many places...

....like for example say City Design and Maintenance...

....and for another example Disaster Response and Management...

*shudder*

--

Chaos Empire mod: Webwalker
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 7, 2005 8:55:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

amusing. i never expected my simple pessimistic reversal of an old optimistic
saying to stimulate such intense debate and commentary. :) 

eudas
Inside of every silver lining, there's a big, dark cloud.
!