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'Zon Questions

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Anonymous
September 28, 2005 6:22:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Ok. She's level 18, now, and just got the Horadric Cube. I opted to let a
mule party with her along the way, and that seems to be working fine.

Right now, she has 14 unallocated skill points. I have absolutely no clue.
I've never played one before. I think I want Valkyrie, so I dumped a point
each in 5 of the prerequisites for that. Other than that, I'm a blank
slate. Javelins? Those were her bread and butter in Act 1. Why don't
Sorceresses have it that easy? Then, she bought a nice Balanced Axe from
Fara (+5 max damage) in Act 2, and has been using it since. Both the
javelins and axe she's been throwing, because of the greater damage. None
of this means I'm decided about anything, however. If this were not HC, I
would probably build her to use the Titan's Revenge I that have on a SC
mule, but oh well... I went to the Amazon Basin and read some of the
guides; it's a smorgasbord of Amazon builds. I'm reading them, and I know I
have to decide soon what I want her to be when she grows up.

So here I am asking all you nice, friendly, wonderful people to share your
wise and most excellent opinions. :D 

Ultimately, I'd like her to be able to do UT, but that's about it. And I
say the same thing about my Sorceress, so there's how much that means. I'm
wondering, though, how does one get bows to deal comparable damage as the
thrown weapons? Also, the skill trees don't look very inviting: poison or
lightning for spears/javelins, or cold or fire for arrows. Devoting to any
one will render the whole exercise useless in Hell, I would think. Also, an
important side question in regards to HC (since I'm new to that as well):
when I allow my partied mule to loot her corpse (should she tragically meet
her end), what happens to her stash? Is it lost, or can this also be
looted?

TIA for any input. Also, if this noobishness annoys you, you can blame
Alex, because it's his fault that I started HC. :p 

More about : zon questions

Anonymous
September 28, 2005 6:22:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Brian Kastel wrote:
> Right now, she has 14 unallocated skill points. I have absolutely no clue.
> I've never played one before. I think I want Valkyrie, so I dumped a point
> each in 5 of the prerequisites for that.

Yes, Valkyrie is almost always a must. I've never seen an amazon
without one. You may want to max it eventually. Each point in Decoy
adds to her/its life, but I never find it necessary as she/it is sturdy
enough to tank Baal.

> Other than that, I'm a blank
> slate. Javelins? Those were her bread and butter in Act 1.

There are many paths to succesful amazons. Javelins, bows, and
hybrids, are all possible. Crossbows, spears, and all passives,
however, are much less common, only the very experienced players are
able to make them Guardians. Therefore, I can safely advise you to not
go to those three paths.

> If this were not HC, I
> would probably build her to use the Titan's Revenge I that have on a SC
> mule, but oh well...

If you have no problem declaring yourself non-legit, then try to trade
for those. Non ethereal Titan's only cost few pgems. For PvM it makes
little sense to use ethereal Titan's anyways.

> So here I am asking all you nice, friendly, wonderful people to share your
> wise and most excellent opinions. :D 
> Ultimately, I'd like her to be able to do UT, but that's about it.

This really all depends on what occupation you want her to have
eventually. What are most common occupations? There are Power Leveler
(gambler or crafter), Cow Runner (runes and gems farmer), Magic Finder
or Gold Finder, Rusher, and Clone Runner.

Unfortunately, I haven't yet encountered a good UT Runner amazon. It
doesn't mean one doesn't exist. I'm not a patron of any build guide
forums; I wouldn't know if someone has already discovered a good amazon
build for so.

That being said, here is the common main skill to each occupation (Valk
is implied).
Power Leveler: Lightning Fury
Cow Runner: Lightning Fury, Decoy, and that Passive skill avoid while
running.
MF/GF: Strafe, Frozen Arrow, Guided, and sometimes Charged Strike
Rusher: Lightning Fury OR Strafe (one or another, not hybrid)
Clone Runner: Charged Strike

Amazon is the fastest Cow Runner of all other classes. I doubt anyone
can argue that.

> I'm
> wondering, though, how does one get bows to deal comparable damage as the
> thrown weapons?

I'm not sure I understand this question. There exists bows with
respectable damage. For low level, nothing beats Zephyr. For mid
level, you can try, in no particular order, Lycander, Witchwild, or
Goldstrike. For high level, upgrade those mid level bows, or try
Eaglestrike, Windforce, or the complete set of M'avina. How you obtain
such bows? As I said above, if you don't mind being non-legit, trade
for them. Each of those can be obtained for few pgems, Windforce is
probably around Um to Mal now (last season one could be obtained for a
Pul).

> Also, the skill trees don't look very inviting: poison or
> lightning for spears/javelins, or cold or fire for arrows.

There is a discussion in AB forum as to why fire arrows are generally
not a good idea.

> Devoting to any
> one will render the whole exercise useless in Hell, I would think.

You are correct, it makes little sense to just have one skill. For
example, synergies to Lightning Fury only adds 1% damage, so you are
better off spending those skills elsewere (Charged Strike is still
important for Act bosses though); Frozen Arrow only has 1 synergy (I
always ignore the 2nd synergy that adds to cold duration as this can be
accomplished with cold damage charms).

> Also, an
> important side question in regards to HC (since I'm new to that as well):
> when I allow my partied mule to loot her corpse (should she tragically meet
> her end), what happens to her stash? Is it lost, or can this also be
> looted?

Stash, inventory, and merc items are lost.

> TIA for any input.

Now if you insist on making her a UT runner. I'd go the Clone Runner
path. I haven't tried bringing mine to UT so I can't tell you how she
fares. However, on her last encounter with Diablo Clone, it took her
23 seconds after seeing his first rain of Armageddon. Granted, this
amazon is very well equipped. Griffon's Eye 4/-5 Facet, Stormshield
3/-5 Facet, Chains of Honor (ber is traded), Thunderstroke, upgraded
Goblin's Toe, LoH, Highlord's, and 2 Raven Frosts.

Besides the Pit Lords that Uber Diablo spews out, Diablo Clone has
higher resistances than UD and similar HP (UD has slightly more HP).
So I'd think that CSZon would have no difficulty in UT, except of
course UMeph which is Lightning Immune. If you kill him fast enough,
UD won't even have time to spew out those Pit Lords. UMeph seems to
always have time to spew out Skeleton Mages (one type is immune to
Lightning), but I've heard from others that said none of the three ever
spew anything out if you kill them fast enough.

> Also, if this noobishness annoys you, you can blame
> Alex, because it's his fault that I started HC. :p 

Welcome to HC. I always being the Devil's Advocate. :) 
Anonymous
September 28, 2005 6:22:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Brian Kastel wrote:
> "Alex Holtz" wrote...
> >
> > If you have no problem declaring yourself non-legit, then try to trade
> > for those.
>
> Thanks for all the input. So even trading for legitimate items makes you
> non-legit? That's pretty hardcore. But that makes sense, I suppose.

IMO, yes, that was the reason I left Amazon Basin sometime last season.
No one ever said I was non-legit or told me to leave their games
forever, but I did that out of my own conscience.

It is my believe that nearly all of B.net players use or have used
Maphack, Bots, Server Lagger, and/or others. It is my opinion that
items acquired with any hacks or duped items are non-legit. Therefore,
even though I've never used any hacks, I consider myself non-legit
because I trade often. Not only that, I'm using duped items I acquired
from trades to find my own items.
Related resources
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Anonymous
September 28, 2005 6:22:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Alex Holtz wrote:
> Brian Kastel wrote:
> > "Alex Holtz" wrote...
> > >
> > > If you have no problem declaring yourself non-legit, then try to trade
> > > for those.
> >
> > Thanks for all the input. So even trading for legitimate items makes you
> > non-legit? That's pretty hardcore. But that makes sense, I suppose.
>
> IMO, yes, that was the reason I left Amazon Basin sometime last season.
> No one ever said I was non-legit or told me to leave their games
> forever, but I did that out of my own conscience.
>
> It is my believe that nearly all of B.net players use or have used
> Maphack, Bots, Server Lagger, and/or others. It is my opinion that
> items acquired with any hacks or duped items are non-legit. Therefore,
> even though I've never used any hacks, I consider myself non-legit
> because I trade often. Not only that, I'm using duped items I acquired
> from trades to find my own items.

Wow, and this kind of attitude was frowned upon by most people here not
too long ago. (remember Particle Man) I guess the key difference is
that you have no problem with other people telling you they are legit
when they don't measure up to your criteria.

Anyway, I wanted to know... what's a server lagger and what does it do?
Is that to dupe items or to PK?
Anonymous
September 28, 2005 6:22:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

chaliban wrote:
> Alex Holtz wrote:
> > IMO, yes, that was the reason I left Amazon Basin sometime last season.
> > No one ever said I was non-legit or told me to leave their games
> > forever, but I did that out of my own conscience.
> >
> > It is my believe that nearly all of B.net players use or have used
> > Maphack, Bots, Server Lagger, and/or others. It is my opinion that
> > items acquired with any hacks or duped items are non-legit. Therefore,
> > even though I've never used any hacks, I consider myself non-legit
> > because I trade often. Not only that, I'm using duped items I acquired
> > from trades to find my own items.
>
> Wow, and this kind of attitude was frowned upon by most people here not
> too long ago. (remember Particle Man) I guess the key difference is
> that you have no problem with other people telling you they are legit
> when they don't measure up to your criteria.

Unfortunately, I do not know about Particle Man. I only started
lurking in these usenets since I left AB and only started posting here
not too long ago. Well, I could care less about how others regard of
themselves. There are those who use maphacks and call themselves
legit.

> Anyway, I wanted to know... what's a server lagger and what does it do?
> Is that to dupe items or to PK?

Server Lagger is for many uses. For duping, it goes something like
this:
Player A, B, and C in a game.
B does not move a muscle nor hit Enter to chat.
A drops the item to be duped.
C picks it up.
A asks B to trade.
B should not answer.
A initiates Server Lagger.
All got dropped, A gets rerolled and got the item back. C doesn't get
rerolled.

Server Lagger can also be used to do-over bad Runeword rolls and bad
crafting results. The mechanisms are similar to the above.

I do not know whether someone using Server Lagger causes lags
throughout the entire games on that server. I particularly know one
person who used this hack in 1.10. Besides admitting to it, I had also
seen his collection of high runes. He was and most likely still is in
US West SCL and a B.net trading forum user (I was West SCL last season,
I am now East HCL). Look for someone who flashes out absurd amount of
Ladder high runes and Non Ladder SoJs for trade. At the end of last
season he had close to 1000 SoJs (no kidding), so he'd surely organize
some Diablo Clone hunts or simply trading them for Ladder items now.
Email me if someone wants to know his forum name from last season,
should be the same or similar for this season.

Disclaimer: Any mistakes in the mechanism described above is due to the
fact that I have never been involved in one. I cannot be held
responsible if trying the above does not get the wanted result or if it
resulted in CD Key ban.
Anonymous
September 28, 2005 6:22:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

chaliban wrote:
> Alex Holtz wrote:
>> IMO, yes, that was the reason I left Amazon Basin sometime last season.
>> No one ever said I was non-legit or told me to leave their games
>> forever, but I did that out of my own conscience.
>>
>> It is my believe that nearly all of B.net players use or have used
>> Maphack, Bots, Server Lagger, and/or others. It is my opinion that
>> items acquired with any hacks or duped items are non-legit. Therefore,
>> even though I've never used any hacks, I consider myself non-legit
>> because I trade often. Not only that, I'm using duped items I acquired
>> from trades to find my own items.

> Wow, and this kind of attitude was frowned upon by most people here not
> too long ago. (remember Particle Man) I guess the key difference is
> that you have no problem with other people telling you they are legit
> when they don't measure up to your criteria.

Unfortunately, I do not know about Particle Man. I only started
lurking in these usenets since I left AB and only started posting here
not too long ago. Well, I could care less about how others regard of
themselves. There are those who use maphacks and call themselves
legit.

> Anyway, I wanted to know... what's a server lagger and what does it do?
> Is that to dupe items or to PK?

Server Lagger is for many uses. For duping, it goes something like
this:
Player A, B, and C in a game.
B does not move a muscle nor hit Enter to chat.
A drops the item to be duped.
C picks it up.
C quits the game.
A asks B to trade.
B should not answer.
A initiates Server Lagger.
All got Connection Interrupted, A gets rerolled and got the item back.

Server Lagger can also be used to do-over bad Runeword rolls and bad
crafting results. The mechanisms are similar to the above.

I do not know whether someone using Server Lagger causes lags
throughout the entire games on that server. I particularly know one
person who used this hack in 1.10. Besides admitting to it, I had also
seen his collection of high runes. He was and most likely still is in
US West SCL and a B.net trading forum user (I was West SCL last season,
I am now East HCL). Look for someone who flashes out absurd amount of
Ladder high runes and Non Ladder SoJs for trade. At the end of last
season he had close to 1000 SoJs (no kidding), so he'd surely organize
some Diablo Clone hunts or simply trading them for Ladder items now.
Email me if someone wants to know his forum name from last season,
should be the same or similar for this season.

Disclaimer: Any possible mistakes in the mechanism described above is
due to the fact that I have never been involved in one. I cannot be
held responsible if trying the above does not get the wanted result or
if it resulted in CD Key ban.
Anonymous
September 28, 2005 6:22:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Brian Kastel wrote:
> Ok. She's level 18, now, and just got the Horadric Cube. I opted to let a
> mule party with her along the way, and that seems to be working fine.
>
> Right now, she has 14 unallocated skill points. I have absolutely no clue.
> I've never played one before. I think I want Valkyrie, so I dumped a point
> each in 5 of the prerequisites for that. Other than that, I'm a blank
> slate. Javelins? Those were her bread and butter in Act 1. Why don't
> Sorceresses have it that easy?

[snip]

Because after level 24, 10k damage meteor / 2k damage blizzard / nk
damage charged bolt / screen clearing / teleporting / staticing sorcs
have it just
about the fastest and easiest out of any non-twinked build.

> So here I am asking all you nice, friendly, wonderful people to share your
> wise and most excellent opinions. :D 

Charged strike / Lightning Fury javazon. Trade for some titans.

Ian
Anonymous
September 28, 2005 9:02:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 02:22:13 GMT, "Brian Kastel"
<be-ar-eye-ay-en-kay-ay-ess-tee-ee-ell@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

>Ok. She's level 18, now, and just got the Horadric Cube. I opted to let a
>mule party with her along the way, and that seems to be working fine.
>
>Right now, she has 14 unallocated skill points. I have absolutely no clue.
>I've never played one before. I think I want Valkyrie, so I dumped a point
>each in 5 of the prerequisites for that. Other than that, I'm a blank
>slate. Javelins? Those were her bread and butter in Act 1. Why don't
>Sorceresses have it that easy? Then, she bought a nice Balanced Axe from
>Fara (+5 max damage) in Act 2, and has been using it since. Both the
>javelins and axe she's been throwing, because of the greater damage. None
>of this means I'm decided about anything, however. If this were not HC, I
>would probably build her to use the Titan's Revenge I that have on a SC
>mule, but oh well... I went to the Amazon Basin and read some of the
>guides; it's a smorgasbord of Amazon builds. I'm reading them, and I know I
>have to decide soon what I want her to be when she grows up.
>
>So here I am asking all you nice, friendly, wonderful people to share your
>wise and most excellent opinions. :D 
>
>Ultimately, I'd like her to be able to do UT, but that's about it. And I
>say the same thing about my Sorceress, so there's how much that means. I'm
>wondering, though, how does one get bows to deal comparable damage as the
>thrown weapons? Also, the skill trees don't look very inviting: poison or
>lightning for spears/javelins, or cold or fire for arrows. Devoting to any
>one will render the whole exercise useless in Hell, I would think. Also, an
>important side question in regards to HC (since I'm new to that as well):
>when I allow my partied mule to loot her corpse (should she tragically meet
>her end), what happens to her stash? Is it lost, or can this also be
>looted?
>
>TIA for any input. Also, if this noobishness annoys you, you can blame
>Alex, because it's his fault that I started HC. :p 


AMAZON
I like the javazon which goes something like:
1 jab
max lightning fury
5 dodge
1 avoid
5 evade
valkyrie
1 decoy
1 slow missiles

you can throw in some guided arrow and bow skills if you want to be hybrid like
flux's guide (http://www.diabloii.net/strategy/x-guides/javazon_Flux1...)
suggests. i personally don't like the buriza and kuko is a pathetic substitute,
and nothing else reaches near that kind of damage output/piercing/cold damage so
i just tend to do without bows.

eudas
Inside of every silver lining, there's a big, dark cloud.
Anonymous
September 28, 2005 10:19:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

"Alex Holtz" wrote...
>
> If you have no problem declaring yourself non-legit, then try to trade
> for those.

Thanks for all the input. So even trading for legitimate items makes you
non-legit? That's pretty hardcore. But that makes sense, I suppose.
Anonymous
September 28, 2005 10:23:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

"eudas" wrote...
>
> AMAZON
> I like the javazon which goes something like:
> 1 jab
> max lightning fury
> 5 dodge
> 1 avoid
> 5 evade
> valkyrie
> 1 decoy
> 1 slow missiles
>
> you can throw in some guided arrow and bow skills if you want to be hybrid
> like
> flux's guide
> (http://www.diabloii.net/strategy/x-guides/javazon_Flux1...)
> suggests. i personally don't like the buriza and kuko is a pathetic
> substitute,
> and nothing else reaches near that kind of damage output/piercing/cold
> damage so
> i just tend to do without bows.

I was reading about the hybrid, and I'm not too keen on that idea. Thanks
for the input, and the link.
Anonymous
September 28, 2005 8:42:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Brian Brunner wrote:
> On 28 Sep 2005, "Alex Holtz" wrote:
>
> >> Unfortunately, I do not know about Particle Man. I only started
> >> lurking in these usenets since I left AB and only started posting here
> >> not too long ago. Well, I could care less about how others regard of
> >> themselves. There are those who use maphacks and call themselves
> >> legit.
>
> Really, it depends on what they used MapHack for. It was a very
> wide-capability program when I last used it (1.09); it's current
> capabilities (1.10/1.11) are unknown to me.

Well, I don't consider someone using MH to be "legit" but it's not
something that upsets me when others do. Everyone has their own
standards.

> Also, those capabilities when used have an impact on the game depending
> on the attitude of the player. E.g. when I find rare/important objects,
> what do I do with them? (the Farnham potion is equivalent to a High
> Level Rune here on Chaos Empire. Clicking on it gives you another skill
> point like the Radament quest. The last 3 I've found I've kept until
> I've met a needy person, then I give it to them. Just because I like
> to.) So if we played together and I MapHacked, the impact would be that
> more things were given to you because I found more things.

That's why I wouldn't want the items, and why Alex would consider that
he wasn't legit if he took those items. In your hypothetical, if you
didn't MH then you would get less items which means that there is a
benefit to using it and getting more items. Therefore, *bad* items. :) 

> Besides "undesired object hiding", I used MapHack to prevent certain
> types of PK methods, and to *attempt* to evade TPPK. The results
> weren't good enough to justify buying it for 1.10.

I play in pubbies a lot. And have always played a fair bit in them. I
consider TPPK to be a huge problem but I weigh that up. Lag, TPPK,
annoying girlfriend (who lost me a lvl 48 last night) etc are all part
of the dangers of HC for me.

Also I wanted to
> know the Ilvl of object to figure whether they could take the number of
> sockets I wanted for a particular RW or the particular affixes I wanted
> (charms/jewels).

That's why I keep a list of alvls near my comp, as well as the weapon
socket resource thing whcih goes for umpteen pages.

> Blaming Realm-Trashing on MapHack I liken to blaiming murder on guns.

I don't really mind that others use MH. I'm not competing against them
and I don't judge them. As I said, everyone has to set their own
standards.

hmmm that went longer than expected.
Anonymous
September 29, 2005 1:18:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

freemont wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 02:54:17 -0400, chaliban <chaliban@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> <shnip>
>
> [...]
>
> I TOLD you all not to bring him UP any more!!!1!
>
> *PLONK*

*OW*

I don't remember being told. :)  Anyway, what's wrong with it? Too Soon?
:) 

hehe, it was just to allude to a way of thinking... the PM thinking.
Anonymous
September 29, 2005 2:23:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 02:54:17 -0400, chaliban <chaliban@hotmail.com> wrote:

<shnip>

> Wow, and this kind of attitude was frowned upon by most people here not
> too long ago. (remember Particle Man)
[...]

I TOLD you all not to bring him UP any more!!!1!

*PLONK*

--
"Because all you of Earth are idiots!"
¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·-> freemont© <-·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯
ahhh, so refreshing...
Anonymous
September 29, 2005 3:21:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On 28 Sep 2005, "Alex Holtz" wrote:

>> Unfortunately, I do not know about Particle Man. I only started
>> lurking in these usenets since I left AB and only started posting here
>> not too long ago. Well, I could care less about how others regard of
>> themselves. There are those who use maphacks and call themselves
>> legit.

Really, it depends on what they used MapHack for. It was a very
wide-capability program when I last used it (1.09); it's current
capabilities (1.10/1.11) are unknown to me.

Also, those capabilities when used have an impact on the game depending
on the attitude of the player. E.g. when I find rare/important objects,
what do I do with them? (the Farnham potion is equivalent to a High
Level Rune here on Chaos Empire. Clicking on it gives you another skill
point like the Radament quest. The last 3 I've found I've kept until
I've met a needy person, then I give it to them. Just because I like
to.) So if we played together and I MapHacked, the impact would be that
more things were given to you because I found more things.

Besides "undesired object hiding", I used MapHack to prevent certain
types of PK methods, and to *attempt* to evade TPPK. The results
weren't good enough to justify buying it for 1.10. Also I wanted to
know the Ilvl of object to figure whether they could take the number of
sockets I wanted for a particular RW or the particular affixes I wanted
(charms/jewels).

Blaming Realm-Trashing on MapHack I liken to blaiming murder on guns.

OTOH, MapHack *doesn't* *work* on the Chaos Empire Mod/Realm, and I
don't miss it one bit. Since I started playing the mod/realm in March
of this year, there has been ONE (1) {uno} [a tenth of 10] PKs, and that
PKer's account was permanently banned immediately.

--

Chaos Empire mod: Webwalker
!