THE GREAT LIBRARY: How important really is this wonder?

[Mike]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Some questions.

1. Will I get the advance from two civs even if I did not make contact
with either of them? Or do I have to know them first?

2. How important is this wonder on the kind of map I play? I play on a
huge map, continents, standard land size, 8 civs total.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 07:31:15 -0400, Mike <no_one@nowhere.com> wrote:

>Some questions.
>
>1. Will I get the advance from two civs even if I did not make contact
>with either of them? Or do I have to know them first?

You must have contact in order to get the tech. If you are very
isolated, this wonder can be amazingly great because you can catch up
in tech when you finally make contact.

>2. How important is this wonder on the kind of map I play? I play on a
>huge map, continents, standard land size, 8 civs total.

The more civs on the map and the less likely that contact is to be
made earlier, the more valuable it is. Denying it to the AI is also
important, because if you are a tech leader and sell tech, you don't
want the AI getting it for free.

On higher difficulty levels it is more valuable as you both pay more
to buy tech and can't research as fast as the AI.
--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Jeffery S. Jones <jeffsj@execpc.com> wrote in message news:<8r5280hgjtnk98te2lg1airin4lq0tgla3@4ax.com>...
> On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 07:31:15 -0400, Mike <no_one@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >Some questions.
> >
> >1. Will I get the advance from two civs even if I did not make contact
> >with either of them? Or do I have to know them first?
>

You get an advance if two civs that you have contacted also has
the advance. So while you are building the great library, send
out a ship and seek contacts.


> You must have contact in order to get the tech. If you are very
> isolated, this wonder can be amazingly great because you can catch up
> in tech when you finally make contact.

I disagree with the 'amazingly great' part. The Great Library is
rather useless if you don't make many contacts, especially with civs
on a different continent. Often times, in some worlds I've played,
the civs on one continent are more primitive than civs on another
continent.


>
> >2. How important is this wonder on the kind of map I play? I play on a
> >huge map, continents, standard land size, 8 civs total.
>

It becomes more important the LESS you spend on science or if you suffer
from research corruption (non-scientific civ). It is rather an effective
way to keep up with the other civs and focus on other things.

This is the reason why I think it's rather useless if you don't make
contacts.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"Buffy The Cache Coder" <buffcoder@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e3850c89.0404222321.4e26cc7c@posting.google.com...
> Jeffery S. Jones <jeffsj@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:<8r5280hgjtnk98te2lg1airin4lq0tgla3@4ax.com>...
> > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 07:31:15 -0400, Mike <no_one@nowhere.com> wrote:
..
>
> It becomes more important the LESS you spend on science or if you
suffer
> from research corruption (non-scientific civ). It is rather an
effective
> way to keep up with the other civs and focus on other things.
>
> This is the reason why I think it's rather useless if you don't make
> contacts.

In a current game, i missed out on GL so went to war to control it. I
then played with science on 0% and one scientist until GL was obsolete.
I paid cash for numerous improvements and upgraded all spearmen to
pikemen/musketmen. Horsemen to knights. In part my strategy was to
build horsemen knowing I intended to upgrade.

I moved from bottom to top in rankings. I shall win in due time, but
there is now the slight problem of no oil in my patch.......

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On 23 Apr 2004 00:21:06 -0700, buffcoder@hotmail.com (Buffy The Cache
Coder) wrote:

>Jeffery S. Jones <jeffsj@execpc.com> wrote in message news:<8r5280hgjtnk98te2lg1airin4lq0tgla3@4ax.com>...
>> On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 07:31:15 -0400, Mike <no_one@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Some questions.
>> >
>> >1. Will I get the advance from two civs even if I did not make contact
>> >with either of them? Or do I have to know them first?
>>
>
>You get an advance if two civs that you have contacted also has
>the advance. So while you are building the great library, send
>out a ship and seek contacts.
>
>
>> You must have contact in order to get the tech. If you are very
>> isolated, this wonder can be amazingly great because you can catch up
>> in tech when you finally make contact.
>
>I disagree with the 'amazingly great' part. The Great Library is
>rather useless if you don't make many contacts, especially with civs
>on a different continent. Often times, in some worlds I've played,
>the civs on one continent are more primitive than civs on another
>continent.

It keeps working until you get Education, and it doesn't matter how
long it takes for you to get the contacts to get it. Because of that,
I do class it as one of the most critical wonders if you happen to be
isolated.

You can't hope to keep up in tech with the AI who are trading. Once
you realize your situation, going for the Great Library may be your
only shot at achieving some sort of tech parity later in the game.
It is unlikely that you could buy as many techs as it will give you
for free.

OTOH -- a game in which you are utterly isolated is rough in any
case, unless the AI's are likewise isolated. The GL simply gives you
a shot at catching up in tech, which you otherwise just won't have.

>> >2. How important is this wonder on the kind of map I play? I play on a
>> >huge map, continents, standard land size, 8 civs total.
>>
>
>It becomes more important the LESS you spend on science or if you suffer
>from research corruption (non-scientific civ). It is rather an effective
>way to keep up with the other civs and focus on other things.
>
>This is the reason why I think it's rather useless if you don't make
>contacts.

Eventually, you get the contacts. Unless you've researched all the
way past Education on your own -- and if you had to do that, the AIs
who are trading are probably far ahead of you -- you will get free
techs from it. With the GL, you can slow down your research as soon
as you have galleys, send them off, risk the sinking, some will make
it and you'll get your contacts.

Thereafter, you don't need to trade for tech or do research, as the
AI will do it for you. You'll want to trade communications at some
point perhaps, to speed up the AI's own trading and research.

Basically, if you go the GL route, you try to research Literacy as
the first thing, then build the GL. You can kill off science spending
afterwards, which can be a wonderful bonus for other areas of
expansion -- including lots of exploration.


The other reason to get it is to stop any AI from doing this sort of
thing.
--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

One thing I've noticed and try to exploit is that when I want to get the
Great Library first. I research whatever techs needed to get philosophy.
Philosophy is several turns cheaper than Literacy. Should I get Philosophy
first and usually do if and only if I research straight for it, then I
choose Literacy as my free tech and start building the GL within the same
turn. Unless I'm isolated then it's Map Making for free followed up by
Literacy.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

In article <soaq80175or38h76cfjfasckbr8ib4o9va@4ax.com>, jeffsj@execpc.com wrote:

>It keeps working until you get Education, and it doesn't matter how
>long it takes for you to get the contacts to get it. Because of that,
>I do class it as one of the most critical wonders if you happen to be
>isolated.

This is also the basis of an exploit.

You build the Great Library and establish as many contacts as you can. Each
turn check on how many of the other empires have Education. When two or more
have Education, _give_ the city with the Great Library to your most
technologically backward rival. Of course you have stripped out as much
population and non-cultural improvements as you can on the turns leading up to
this point. You continue to research as many non-Education techs as possible.
You might consider stopping research entirely once you have Military
Tradition and Printing Press.

Once the situation is ripe, say when someone starts building Universal
Suffrage, declare war and recapture the Great Library. Whoosh the techs will
come rolling in, starting with Education. You will miss most of the Medieval
Great Wonders.

If I am on the same continent with the Great Library I try to avoid Education
for this same reason. When I capture it I want a big pay-off in techs.


Mike G