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Some pretty simple questions.....

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Anonymous
September 1, 2004 3:00:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Yep. TIme for the Newbie questions again. Please bear with me and
point me to the resource for such easy questions.... It just give me a
quick answer... But please don't flame me..... I have delicate skin
that blisters easily.


1: Mine ot Irrigate? Which is better for;
Grassland:
Plains:
Desert:
Bonus resources:
Luxeries:

2: Should I clear forrests?

My standard is usually this when creating a new city:

Produce the following:

1: Warrior (Of some sort to fortify in the town)
2: Either...
a. Scout (Early in game for exploration)
b. Scout
or...
a. Worker
b. Worker
3. Walls
4. Grainery
5. Barracks

I switch over on the scouts/workers depending on the need.... When I
have plenty of workers slapping down roads and mines/irrigation almost
faster than I can make the settlers for new towns I will stop all
together.

I use the scouts extensiuvle looking for barbarian villages to pilfer
and get loads of technological advances.

After the barracks, I usually have the marketplace available and build
that first. Later on when I have choices I will usually opt for the
marketplace then the Temple and then library.

Anyway, These are the basics I use to start out a civilization in the
early years. I would appreciate any critiques youo all might offer. I
would always like to step up my methodology.

By the way, I play Conquests.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 8:06:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote in
news:17eaj0t59khcrup4pfvbnte98thsjvo12r@4ax.com:

> Yep. TIme for the Newbie questions again. Please bear with me and
> point me to the resource for such easy questions.... It just give
> me a quick answer... But please don't flame me..... I have
> delicate skin that blisters easily.
>
>
> 1: Mine ot Irrigate? Which is better for;
> Grassland:
> Plains:
> Desert:
> Bonus resources:
> Luxeries:

Ironically I think this is mostly not a tile specific matter, but
rather a whole city related matter. Generally, I irrigate so that I
have enough food to sustain a city's max population (6/12/20).
Everything else is mined. At the max population you want to make sure
you are using all the luxury and hill tiles that are possible, since
those tiles give more resources.
Keep in mind that until you are out of despotism, you will not see a
benefit from some terraforming actions, like irrigating grassland.

> 2: Should I clear forrests?

If you have workers available, yes. A forest is worth 10 shields
towards the production of any non-wonder. Make sure that you will get
the most out of those "free" shields on the turn the forest is cleared.

> My standard is usually this when creating a new city:
[snip the rest]

There are many many different possible strategies, so I'm only going
to touch this lightly. Until I can afford to build up all cities, I
prefer to have purpose built "factory" cities. Each city is built for
a single purpose and only gets what is necessary for that purpose.
Temples, Marketplaces, and aqueducts/hospitals are the only exceptions.
You should have a settler factory, which gets a granery. You also
need a worker factory. After you have enough slave workers to do the
actual work, your worker/settler factories should continue producing
settlers/workers to be merged into other cities. It is easier for a
settler factory to grow from 5 back to 7 than it is for your other
cities to grow above 7.
Defender factories get a barracks. I like to keep one "best
defender" unit in each city. And then keep other, cheaper to build,
units to fill out the police duties.
Attacker factories are pretty much where all the extra cities fall.
If you have the resources, barracks are helpful but are not always
necessary.
Harbor cities get a harbor and build boats.
You'll want a couple wonder cities on or below Monarch level. Above
Monarch, you should use these cities to build attack units.


--
ICQ: 8105495
AIM: KeeperGFA
EMail: thekeeper@canada.com
"If we did the things we are capable of,
we would astound ourselves." - Edison
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 10:16:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On 1 Sep 2004 04:06:26 GMT, "Kevin 'Keeper' Foster"
<thekeeper@canada.com> wrote:

>Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote in
>news:17eaj0t59khcrup4pfvbnte98thsjvo12r@4ax.com:


Thanks for the info. Very useful.... One question from it though....

How do I get slaves?


>> Yep. TIme for the Newbie questions again. Please bear with me and
>> point me to the resource for such easy questions.... It just give
>> me a quick answer... But please don't flame me..... I have
>> delicate skin that blisters easily.
>>
>>
>> 1: Mine ot Irrigate? Which is better for;
>> Grassland:
>> Plains:
>> Desert:
>> Bonus resources:
>> Luxeries:
>
> Ironically I think this is mostly not a tile specific matter, but
>rather a whole city related matter. Generally, I irrigate so that I
>have enough food to sustain a city's max population (6/12/20).
>Everything else is mined. At the max population you want to make sure
>you are using all the luxury and hill tiles that are possible, since
>those tiles give more resources.
> Keep in mind that until you are out of despotism, you will not see a
>benefit from some terraforming actions, like irrigating grassland.
>
>> 2: Should I clear forrests?
>
> If you have workers available, yes. A forest is worth 10 shields
>towards the production of any non-wonder. Make sure that you will get
>the most out of those "free" shields on the turn the forest is cleared.
>
>> My standard is usually this when creating a new city:
>[snip the rest]
>
> There are many many different possible strategies, so I'm only going
>to touch this lightly. Until I can afford to build up all cities, I
>prefer to have purpose built "factory" cities. Each city is built for
>a single purpose and only gets what is necessary for that purpose.
>Temples, Marketplaces, and aqueducts/hospitals are the only exceptions.
> You should have a settler factory, which gets a granery. You also
>need a worker factory. After you have enough slave workers to do the
>actual work, your worker/settler factories should continue producing
>settlers/workers to be merged into other cities. It is easier for a
>settler factory to grow from 5 back to 7 than it is for your other
>cities to grow above 7.
> Defender factories get a barracks. I like to keep one "best
>defender" unit in each city. And then keep other, cheaper to build,
>units to fill out the police duties.
> Attacker factories are pretty much where all the extra cities fall.
>If you have the resources, barracks are helpful but are not always
>necessary.
> Harbor cities get a harbor and build boats.
> You'll want a couple wonder cities on or below Monarch level. Above
>Monarch, you should use these cities to build attack units.
Related resources
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 11:44:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

inline

Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote in message news:<17eaj0t59khcrup4pfvbnte98thsjvo12r@4ax.com>...
> Yep. TIme for the Newbie questions again. Please bear with me and
> point me to the resource for such easy questions.... It just give me a
> quick answer... But please don't flame me..... I have delicate skin
> that blisters easily.
>
>

Under the starting Despotism govt.

> 1: Mine ot Irrigate? Which is better for;
> Grassland:

Always mine (unless needed for irrigation path.) Unless there's a food
bonus, the irrigation is lost under this govt.

> Plains:

Generrally irrigate. It's usally needed to keep the city growing.

> Desert:

If Agricultual, irrigate! If non-agricultural, this is a very low
priority to impove unless an irrigation chain needs made.

> Bonus resources:

Well, if there's resources it depends upon what the raw count to
determine weather mining or irrigation does the most good.

> Luxeries:

See Bonsus resources above, but definately road connect to your trade
network.

>
> 2: Should I clear forrests?
>
Yes! With proper timing to take full advantage of those 10 shields.

> My standard is usually this when creating a new city:
>
> Produce the following:
>
> 1: Warrior (Of some sort to fortify in the town)
> 2: Either...
> a. Scout (Early in game for exploration)
> b. Scout
> or...
> a. Worker
> b. Worker
> 3. Walls
> 4. Grainery
> 5. Barracks
>

If playing Expansionist, your better off building a Scout first
(unless your on a high enough difficulty level to need a Warrior as
police.)

Workers that early are not recomended for the capital. It's delays
settlers. Have the new cities build their own worker.

I'd lose the walls, useless your both militarious and that city is a
defensive chokepoint without fresh water access; you'll get walls for
free when the city reaches size 7.

Granery is an excelent first build for a city with a natural aquaduct.
It's not nearly as useful early on without the natural aquaduct.

Barracks is more of an as needed. Certiantely before building any unit
more expensive than a warrior.

> I switch over on the scouts/workers depending on the need.... When I
> have plenty of workers slapping down roads and mines/irrigation almost
> faster than I can make the settlers for new towns I will stop all
> together.
>

Scouts are best very early on. That one worker is plenty until you can
get more cities.

> I use the scouts extensiuvle looking for barbarian villages to pilfer
> and get loads of technological advances.
>

Yup, that's the main use of scouts.

> After the barracks, I usually have the marketplace available and build
> that first. Later on when I have choices I will usually opt for the
> marketplace then the Temple and then library.
>

Generrally if scientific, realitive order should be Libary, Temple,
Marketplace for new cities when Literature is discovered and Temple,
Libary, Marketplace for older cities that need the Temple happiness.

If not scientific, at higher levels, you can't wait for a marketplace,
a Temple will be needed to help maintaign order. Plus unless your
using tight city spacing, a cultural building needs built to work all
the tiles within CR.

And if Religious, Temples should be built even earlier for the culture
benfits.

> Anyway, These are the basics I use to start out a civilization in the
> early years. I would appreciate any critiques youo all might offer. I
> would always like to step up my methodology.
>
> By the way, I play Conquests.
September 1, 2004 5:08:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 06:16:28 -0400 Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote in message
<ma8bj05unn1on3uq51h7dd2s16f6uqik86@4ax.com>...

> How do I get slaves?

A slave is a worker with a foreign nationality. There are four ways to get
them:

1. Capture them.
2. Occasionally they are offered for purchase on the trade screen.
3. A captured city may still contain nationals of it's former owner(s).
If it builds a workers, they may have foreign nationality.
4. In Conquests, some units have the power to enslave defeated enemy
units, turning thenm into workers.

Slaves work at half the rate of workers you build yourself, however they
require no maintanence and do not count toward the free support provided by
certain governments. For this reason they are highly prized by discerning
players.

--
Daran

"I long to accomplish a great and noble task, but my chief duty is to
accomplish humble tasks as though they were great and noble.  The world is
moved along, not only by the mighty shoves of its heroes, but also by the
aggregate of the tiny pushes of each honest worker." -- Helen Keller
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 7:56:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

In article <17eaj0t59khcrup4pfvbnte98thsjvo12r@4ax.com>, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:
>Yep. TIme for the Newbie questions again. Please bear with me and
>point me to the resource for such easy questions.... It just give me a
>quick answer... But please don't flame me..... I have delicate skin
>that blisters easily.
>
>
>1: Mine ot Irrigate? Which is better for;
> Grassland:
> Plains:
> Desert:
> Bonus resources:
> Luxeries:

The standard answer is "That depends."

If you are still in despotism then, in general, you mine grassland and
irrigate plains and deserts. Once you are out of Despotism it gets more
complicated. If my city is limited to size 6 or 12 then I want to produce
just enough food to keep everyone fed and as many shields as possible.

The great weakness of the AI (and automated workers) is that in general they
don't optimize the city as a whole. Extra food without Aqueducts and Hospital
is wasted.


>2: Should I clear forrests?

In general, yes. You want to time it so the one time 10 shield bonus is not
wasted. After Engineering you can replace them.


>My standard is usually this when creating a new city:
>
>Produce the following:
>
> 1: Warrior (Of some sort to fortify in the town)

I send Settler/Defender pairs and follow up with another defender later.
Usually a new city of mine does not produce its own defenders. I like at
least 2 defenders per city for the happiness the MPs create, plus it keeps the
AIs peaceful.

Early in the game I want to expand as quickly as possible so I produce
settlers as fast as I can. During REX the first building is a Barracks.
After that it is Settlers. I will work Spearmen or Scouts into the mix while
waiting for the city to grow back to size-3. Until all the land is occupied,
that's basically it: Barracks, Settler, Spearman, ...

During REX workers present a challenge. You want to have at least three
improved tiles for each city. You also want a road net from your capital to
each of your cities. You want to hook exactly one of each of the Luxuries and
Resources available to you to you road net. So you will need to produce more
more Workers even though it will slow down Settler production. Cities
without Grassland won't grow so I have them produce Workers instead of
Settlers. I buy Workers every chance I get.

After REX, the first thing I build is a Temple (or Library if playing a
Scientific civ) which will take some time and I'll pop rush to get them
finished. Then I usually follow up with a Worker. I like having at least one
Worker per city. Then Courthouse if corruption is bad, and I will pop rush to
get it done. The most important building to me after the first cultural
building is the Marketplace. Then the Library (or Temple).

A granary in one or two of the early cities is really nice if the city has
bonus food that can be exploited while in Despotism. That city becomes a
Settler/Worker pump until REX is over.


> 2: Either...
> a. Scout (Early in game for exploration)
> b. Scout
> or...
> a. Worker
> b. Worker
> 3. Walls
> 4. Grainery
> 5. Barracks

I'm guessing that you are talking about you capital here. I can see cranking
out early scouts while waiting for the city to grow but Workers will delay the
vital first Settler. The granary is a long range strategic choice, will the
short term delay in Settler production be worth the long term gain? Early on
I think walls are worthless but the barracks is very valuable.


>I switch over on the scouts/workers depending on the need.... When I
>have plenty of workers slapping down roads and mines/irrigation almost
>faster than I can make the settlers for new towns I will stop all
>together.
>
>I use the scouts extensiuvle looking for barbarian villages to pilfer
>and get loads of technological advances.

I use Scouts for that and to harass and contain my neighbors. A group of
three Scouts can stop a Settler, two can delay one. You can block choke
points. You can fortify on top of resources and prevent the AI from building a
road to connect it up. You can move through one AI to make contact with
another on the other side. And some people don't like Scouts.


>After the barracks, I usually have the marketplace available and build
>that first. Later on when I have choices I will usually opt for the
>marketplace then the Temple and then library.

Given a non-scientific civ my preferred order would be Temple, Marketplace,
then Library. After REX, Barracks and Walls are low on my priority list
unless I'm going to be producing units. I dislike producing Regulars.


>Anyway, These are the basics I use to start out a civilization in the
>early years. I would appreciate any critiques youo all might offer. I
>would always like to step up my methodology.
>
>By the way, I play Conquests.

Celts under Feudalism rule.


Mike G
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 12:05:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:00:38 -0400, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:

>Yep. TIme for the Newbie questions again. Please bear with me and
>point me to the resource for such easy questions.... It just give me a
>quick answer... But please don't flame me..... I have delicate skin
>that blisters easily.
>
>
>1: Mine ot Irrigate? Which is better for;
> Grassland:
> Plains:
> Desert:
> Bonus resources:
> Luxeries:

Others answered -- it depends.

My quick criteria:

While still at despotism, that is, in the early part of the game,
mining is better than irrigation in most cases. However, if the
production is two food, then irrigation does nothing, if it is two
shields before mining, the same applies -- so obviously, don't
mine/irrigate those squares.

A city with good food bonuses can use irrigation to increase its
growth rate -- that is what you need food for. Most cities will grow
reasonably given time -- if there is at least two food surplus, you
don't need more to ensure it maxing. I pick out a few cities -- very
few -- to have high growth, so as to make workers/settlers more
quickly.

>2: Should I clear forrests?

Eventually. A roaded forest is competitive with mined plains, so
early on, if you need shield production it is OK to leave them. Never
clear them unless you have something in production in the city which
can benefit from the shields.

>My standard is usually this when creating a new city:
>
>Produce the following:
>
> 1: Warrior (Of some sort to fortify in the town)
> 2: Either...
> a. Scout (Early in game for exploration)
> b. Scout
> or...
> a. Worker
> b. Worker
> 3. Walls
> 4. Grainery
> 5. Barracks
>
>I switch over on the scouts/workers depending on the need.... When I
>have plenty of workers slapping down roads and mines/irrigation almost
>faster than I can make the settlers for new towns I will stop all
>together.

If you're talking about the capital, in the first city, what to make
depends on the situation. If you have scouts, that means you're
expansionist, and scouts are *essential* in order to get the benefits
of that advantage. Not enough scouts to explore the continent, and
you've given up something you've "paid" for.

You can get buy for a while without making a new worker. One is
able to keep up with one city. When you make a second city, one of
them may build a worker. If you can, trade with the AI for workers --
that way, you don't need to build them, and "slave" workers -- foreign
workers -- cost no maintenance (work at half speed, but for free it is
a bargain).

Walls -- skip it. The only thing it helps is if there is a war on
early, and if that is the case, you can build it then. You're
generally better off building units to defend and keep the enemy away
from the city.

A granary is necessary eventually in any city which builds many
settlers/workers. You can skip it in other cities.

By specializing cities, you can save on production and maintenance
costs. Some cities need barracks, not all. Same with granary -- only
cities which are going to "burn" population making workers/settlers
really need those.

>I use the scouts extensiuvle looking for barbarian villages to pilfer
>and get loads of technological advances.
>
>After the barracks, I usually have the marketplace available and build
>that first. Later on when I have choices I will usually opt for the
>marketplace then the Temple and then library.

You only need barracks to build veteran units. Early units don't
*need* the advantage -- basically, anything in the ancient era can
survive OK at Regular -- the AI is often at the same level. I find it
useful to build a few barracks, so that the few military units I *do*
build will all be vets, but that is part of specializing cities: the
barracks cities build mostly units.

Marketplace and temple are essential -- you need to keep the people
happy and productive. Library is optional -- unless you have lots of
science it is expensive, though it does help make culture.
Structurally, making a couple of settlers can be much better than
turning out a library.

In fact, expansion -- making more cities -- is the main goal in the
early game. Only after you've hit the optimal number of cities, you
can divert production into enhancing existing cities first. (varies on
map size, it is twice the number which triggers the "build the
forbidden palace" message).

>Anyway, These are the basics I use to start out a civilization in the
>early years. I would appreciate any critiques youo all might offer. I
>would always like to step up my methodology.
>
>By the way, I play Conquests.

Conquests has a couple of signficant differences from plain civ3:

Republic is much more expensive to operate in wartime than Monarchy.
This change makes Monarchy not so bad a deal, and even not bad if you
need to build up forces and expand.

The trading rules are changed; the AI is less inclined to trade away
goodies like workers at very cheap prices. You can still get good
deals, though.

OTOH -- the AI's willingness to trade away workers could be
considered an exploit. That is, it is stupid of them to do it, even
at the price they ask, because the value of early game workers is
nearly infinite! Giving them up means crippling early production, and
the AI isn't that good in the early game improving of cities/terrain.
It *is* good at managing churning out settlers, but without enough
workers the cities are weaker.

I still do it, though, because it is simply *so* useful to have
slaves ;-)\

--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/&gt;
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/&gt;
September 2, 2004 3:52:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 15:56:38 GMT Mike Garcia
<mtg@cornellc.cit.stumbling.block.cornell.edu> wrote in message
<ch4rdp$c5k$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>...

> In article <17eaj0t59khcrup4pfvbnte98thsjvo12r@4ax.com>,
> Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:

> Early in the game I want to expand as quickly as possible so I produce
> settlers as fast as I can. During REX the first building is a Barracks.

I build granaries if I have the technology, rather than barracks. Temples
too, if I need border expansion. Whether I build barracks at all during REX
depends upon how shield-productive my cities are: In the time it take for
them to grow by two citizens, each needs to produce 1 settler (30 shields) +
1 defender (a warrior will do: 10 shields) on average. Total 40 shields.
If I have an excess of 20 (militaristic) or 40 shields distributed between
all my cities, and I don't need temples, then I will build barracks in my
most shield-productive cities.

[...]

> During REX workers present a challenge. You want to have at least three
> improved tiles for each city. You also want a road net from your capital
> to each of your cities. You want to hook exactly one of each of the
> Luxuries and Resources available to you to you road net...

Strategic resources only matter if you're producing the units they make
available, which you're probably not, during REX. Luxuries are only
important during this phase if you have a happiness problem, which is not so
much an issue on lower playing levels. It's important to *secure* resources
(by building cities close to them), but not so important to exploit them
quickly.

> ...So you will need to produce more more Workers even though it will slow
> down Settler production. Cities without Grassland won't grow so I have
> them produce Workers instead of Settlers. I buy Workers every chance I
> get.

Absolutely. This is a crucial tip. Many players fail to recognise just how
valuable foreign workers are. Some even disband them! Compared to the
single native worker they would replace, two foreign workers acquired during
REX will save up to 500 or more gold in maintenance charges over the course
of the game, *plus* a valuable point of population that can now go into a
settler, *plus* ten shields, *plus* reducing the donor civ's ability to
develop his own terrain. At 25 gold or so they are an absolute steal! Even
when the price went up to around 125 in Conquests, they are still well worth
the cost.

> After REX, the first thing I build is a Temple (or Library if playing a
> Scientific civ) which will take some time and I'll pop rush to get them
> finished. Then I usually follow up with a Worker. I like having at least
> one Worker per city. Then Courthouse if corruption is bad, and I will pop
> rush to get it done. The most important building to me after the first
> cultural building is the Marketplace. Then the Library (or Temple).

It depends on what improvements are available, of course, but I tend to
favour temples even if I'm scientific and not religious. This may be
because I play at higher levels where I need all the help with happiness I
can get.

Like you, I love marketplaces. Libraries are the lowest priority, because
I'm not during any research at this time. I will build them for the
culture, if I've nothing else to build. I will also build them ahead of
barracks though, and ahead of courthouses in cities where the benefit of the
latter is minimal or in border cities under cultural pressure.

> A granary in one or two of the early cities is really nice if the city has
> bonus food that can be exploited while in Despotism. That city becomes a
> Settler/Worker pump until REX is over.

I prefer to put granaries in cities with normal (two food/turn) surplus.
Obviously what your aiming for is to increase the rate at which you are
gaining population. Consider the following table which shows the effect of
granaries at various growth rates. (You may need to switch to a fixed-width
font to see this clearly).

Surplus Turns to Grow Growth in 21 Turns Difference
Food w/o gran w gran w/o gran w gran
1 20 10 1 2 1
2 10 5 2 4 2
3 7 4 3 5 2
4 5 3 4 7 3
5 4 2 5 10 5

As you can see, there is not a lot of difference, in terms of growth rate
benefit, between putting a granary in a 3-surplus city and putting one in a
2-surplus city. In fact, it's marginally better in a 2-surplus city because
the benefit actually accrues in 20 rather than 21 turns. But the real
advantage is that you've got time to build your settler and perhaps other
things too. If you're growing every four turns, then you can do nothing but
build settlers. Any faster and you probably can't keep up, and your city
grows until it hits a cap, or, (if it has a water supply) the food box
expands, cancelling out the effect of the granary. or until you have to
create an entertainer.

[...]

> I'm guessing that you are talking about you capital here. I can see
> cranking out early scouts while waiting for the city to grow but Workers
> will delay the vital first Settler. The granary is a long range strategic
> choice, will the short term delay in Settler production be worth the long
> term gain? Early on I think walls are worthless but the barracks is very
> valuable.

In my experience (at deity), the result of building a granary before your
first settler is either disastrous (you end up with about 3 cities) or
excellent (10 or more). In the former case, you can restart, so I think
it's well worth it. I would expect this to be even more the case at lower
levels.

[...]

> Given a non-scientific civ my preferred order would be Temple,
> Marketplace, then Library. After REX, Barracks and Walls are low on my
> priority list unless I'm going to be producing units. I dislike producing
> Regulars.

I don't mind. I'm going to be replacing them anyway.

> Mike G

--
Daran

"I long to accomplish a great and noble task, but my chief duty is to
accomplish humble tasks as though they were great and noble.  The world is
moved along, not only by the mighty shoves of its heroes, but also by the
aggregate of the tiny pushes of each honest worker." -- Helen Keller
September 2, 2004 11:50:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 20:05:36 -0500 Jeffery S. Jones <jeffsj@execpc.com>
wrote in message <5crcj09g4ajf7bcq70692eb4g00kjn082c@4ax.com>...

> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:00:38 -0400, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:

> While still at despotism, that is, in the early part of the game, mining
> is better than irrigation in most cases. However, if the production is
> two food, then irrigation does nothing, if it is two shields before
> mining, the same applies -- so obviously, don't mine/irrigate those
> squares.

A little more explanation is needed: If the underlying production is two
food (for example grassland), then irrigation will have no effect. If the
underlying production is three food (for example, plains cattle) then
without irrigation the square will yield two food (because of the despotic
production penalty), with irrigation it will yield three.

The same is true for mining. If the underlying production is two shields
(plains cattle), then mining won't help. If it's three (can't think of an
example) then the despotic penalty will already have been applied, and
mining will yield a benefit.

> --

--
Daran

"I long to accomplish a great and noble task, but my chief duty is to
accomplish humble tasks as though they were great and noble.  The world is
moved along, not only by the mighty shoves of its heroes, but also by the
aggregate of the tiny pushes of each honest worker." -- Helen Keller
!