I only want to go 500 feet (outdoors), but can't quite get..

G

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Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

I would appreciate some help understanding what I have done wrong here. I am
attempting to extend access out to a gazebo about 500-600 feet from my main
location.

My set-up consists of
DLink MI-514 Wireless Router
about 20' of LMR 400 antenna cable
A 8.5 dB Omnidirectional Antenna (no downtilt to the radiation pattern)
A Dell Laptop with a built-in True Mobile card.
Assorted pigtails, adapters, and lighting arrestor.

I mounted the antenna outside the main location about 3' from the ground,
and I have unobstructed LOS to the gazebo.

I thought that this would be a slam-dunk, as the advertised range of the
DI-514 is 300 feet indoors and 1300 feet outdoors (yes, I realize under
"ideal" conditions). I thought putting the antenna outside in direct LOS of
the gazebo would pretty much make the conditions as ideal as possible, as
well as increase the gain in the system.

I estimated the signal strength close to the antenna (accounting for cable
loss, antenna gain, and free space loss) at about
-13dBm.
OK, I ignored any losses in the assorted pigtails, etc..

Using the utilities shipped with my laptop, the received signal levels I
experience are as follows:

at 5 to 10 feet -27 dBm
at 50 feet -50 dBm
at 100 feet -61 dBm
at 150 feet -73 dBm

At each location, I am in full view of the antenna. Beyond 150 feet I can't
hold the signal long enough to get a good reading.

The annoying aspect is that for some reason I can also pick up another
wireless network at all locations, although not reliably. When I can get a
signal from the other network, it appears to be in the -60 dBm to -70 dBm
range. The signal strength is pretty independent of where I am along the
path to the gazebo. In other words, the signal strength from the other
network is stronger in some locations in others, but not clearly stronger at
one end or the other of the path to the gazebo. (I haven't determined which
neighbors signal I have yet, but suspect that a line to their location is
perpendicular to the path to the gazebo.)

Any thoughts??

Dave M
 
G

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think 3' is awfully close to the grnd, might raise it up and see if things
improve .
fwiw
I've a di624 with both a 5.5db omni range extender and a 6db 80degree
directional panel attached and with a standard g pc card - at 150' signal
is around half strength on the little indicators.

I'm no antenna guru, but when I added a 8db yaggi directional flag antenna
to the laptops compex g pc.card it was a definite grin maker. It's 100%
signal most anywhere ,,, one bad area that was 26% is now 76% aimed through
I guess mortar over wire lath wall and two other wood/drywall type sidings.


"Dave M" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:xL6dnR3XR6Lyen_d4p2dnA@comcast.com...
> I would appreciate some help understanding what I have done wrong here. I
am
> attempting to extend access out to a gazebo about 500-600 feet from my
main
> location.
>
> My set-up consists of
> DLink MI-514 Wireless Router
> about 20' of LMR 400 antenna cable
> A 8.5 dB Omnidirectional Antenna (no downtilt to the radiation pattern)
> A Dell Laptop with a built-in True Mobile card.
> Assorted pigtails, adapters, and lighting arrestor.
>
> I mounted the antenna outside the main location about 3' from the ground,
> and I have unobstructed LOS to the gazebo.
>
> I thought that this would be a slam-dunk, as the advertised range of the
> DI-514 is 300 feet indoors and 1300 feet outdoors (yes, I realize under
> "ideal" conditions). I thought putting the antenna outside in direct LOS
of
> the gazebo would pretty much make the conditions as ideal as possible, as
> well as increase the gain in the system.
>
> I estimated the signal strength close to the antenna (accounting for cable
> loss, antenna gain, and free space loss) at about
> -13dBm.
> OK, I ignored any losses in the assorted pigtails, etc..
>
> Using the utilities shipped with my laptop, the received signal levels I
> experience are as follows:
>
> at 5 to 10 feet -27 dBm
> at 50 feet -50 dBm
> at 100 feet -61 dBm
> at 150 feet -73 dBm
>
> At each location, I am in full view of the antenna. Beyond 150 feet I
can't
> hold the signal long enough to get a good reading.
>
> The annoying aspect is that for some reason I can also pick up another
> wireless network at all locations, although not reliably. When I can get
a
> signal from the other network, it appears to be in the -60 dBm to -70 dBm
> range. The signal strength is pretty independent of where I am along the
> path to the gazebo. In other words, the signal strength from the other
> network is stronger in some locations in others, but not clearly stronger
at
> one end or the other of the path to the gazebo. (I haven't determined
which
> neighbors signal I have yet, but suspect that a line to their location is
> perpendicular to the path to the gazebo.)
>
> Any thoughts??
>
> Dave M
>
>
 
G

Guest

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Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

I would have to agree, 3' is awfully close to go that distance. The
other thing you might try is getting a stronger antenna and see if
that helps. Myabe buy it, try it, if it doesn't help take it
back...think Radio Shack, Circuit city, etc.
A somewhat trial and error thing to try is putting up a small(12"x12")
piece of cardboard covered with aluminum foil to act as a reflector
behind your current antenna and see if the numbers get better. I have
seen this work indoors so a stainless metal panel would work outdoors.
Smooth out the foil as much as you can.

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 23:58:43 GMT, "bumtracks" <user@unknown.org>
wrote:

>think 3' is awfully close to the grnd, might raise it up and see if things
>improve .
>fwiw
>I've a di624 with both a 5.5db omni range extender and a 6db 80degree
>directional panel attached and with a standard g pc card - at 150' signal
>is around half strength on the little indicators.
>
>I'm no antenna guru, but when I added a 8db yaggi directional flag antenna
>to the laptops compex g pc.card it was a definite grin maker. It's 100%
>signal most anywhere ,,, one bad area that was 26% is now 76% aimed through
>I guess mortar over wire lath wall and two other wood/drywall type sidings.
>
>
>"Dave M" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
>news:xL6dnR3XR6Lyen_d4p2dnA@comcast.com...
>> I would appreciate some help understanding what I have done wrong here. I
>am
>> attempting to extend access out to a gazebo about 500-600 feet from my
>main
>> location.
>>
>> My set-up consists of
>> DLink MI-514 Wireless Router
>> about 20' of LMR 400 antenna cable
>> A 8.5 dB Omnidirectional Antenna (no downtilt to the radiation pattern)
>> A Dell Laptop with a built-in True Mobile card.
>> Assorted pigtails, adapters, and lighting arrestor.
>>
>> I mounted the antenna outside the main location about 3' from the ground,
>> and I have unobstructed LOS to the gazebo.
>>
>> I thought that this would be a slam-dunk, as the advertised range of the
>> DI-514 is 300 feet indoors and 1300 feet outdoors (yes, I realize under
>> "ideal" conditions). I thought putting the antenna outside in direct LOS
>of
>> the gazebo would pretty much make the conditions as ideal as possible, as
>> well as increase the gain in the system.
>>
>> I estimated the signal strength close to the antenna (accounting for cable
>> loss, antenna gain, and free space loss) at about
>> -13dBm.
>> OK, I ignored any losses in the assorted pigtails, etc..
>>
>> Using the utilities shipped with my laptop, the received signal levels I
>> experience are as follows:
>>
>> at 5 to 10 feet -27 dBm
>> at 50 feet -50 dBm
>> at 100 feet -61 dBm
>> at 150 feet -73 dBm
>>
>> At each location, I am in full view of the antenna. Beyond 150 feet I
>can't
>> hold the signal long enough to get a good reading.
>>
>> The annoying aspect is that for some reason I can also pick up another
>> wireless network at all locations, although not reliably. When I can get
>a
>> signal from the other network, it appears to be in the -60 dBm to -70 dBm
>> range. The signal strength is pretty independent of where I am along the
>> path to the gazebo. In other words, the signal strength from the other
>> network is stronger in some locations in others, but not clearly stronger
>at
>> one end or the other of the path to the gazebo. (I haven't determined
>which
>> neighbors signal I have yet, but suspect that a line to their location is
>> perpendicular to the path to the gazebo.)
>>
>> Any thoughts??
>>
>> Dave M
>>
>>
>
 
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Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 23:58:43 GMT, "bumtracks" <user@unknown.org>
wrote:


>I'm no antenna guru, but when I added a 8db yaggi directional flag antenna
>to the laptops compex g pc.card it was a definite grin maker. It's 100%
>signal most anywhere ,,, one bad area that was 26% is now 76% aimed through
>I guess mortar over wire lath wall and two other wood/drywall type sidings.
>
What specific antenna did you add?
 
G

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Guest
Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"Dave M" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:xL6dnR3XR6Lyen_d4p2dnA@comcast.com...
> I would appreciate some help understanding what I have done wrong here. I
am
> attempting to extend access out to a gazebo about 500-600 feet from my
main
> location.
>
> My set-up consists of
> DLink MI-514 Wireless Router
> about 20' of LMR 400 antenna cable
> A 8.5 dB Omnidirectional Antenna (no downtilt to the radiation pattern)
> A Dell Laptop with a built-in True Mobile card.
> Assorted pigtails, adapters, and lighting arrestor.
>
> I mounted the antenna outside the main location about 3' from the ground,
> and I have unobstructed LOS to the gazebo.
>
> I thought that this would be a slam-dunk, as the advertised range of the
> DI-514 is 300 feet indoors and 1300 feet outdoors (yes, I realize under
> "ideal" conditions). I thought putting the antenna outside in direct LOS
of
> the gazebo would pretty much make the conditions as ideal as possible, as
> well as increase the gain in the system.
>
> I estimated the signal strength close to the antenna (accounting for cable
> loss, antenna gain, and free space loss) at about
> -13dBm.
> OK, I ignored any losses in the assorted pigtails, etc..
>
> Using the utilities shipped with my laptop, the received signal levels I
> experience are as follows:
>
> at 5 to 10 feet -27 dBm
> at 50 feet -50 dBm
> at 100 feet -61 dBm
> at 150 feet -73 dBm
>
> At each location, I am in full view of the antenna. Beyond 150 feet I
can't
> hold the signal long enough to get a good reading.
>
> The annoying aspect is that for some reason I can also pick up another
> wireless network at all locations, although not reliably. When I can get
a
> signal from the other network, it appears to be in the -60 dBm to -70 dBm
> range. The signal strength is pretty independent of where I am along the
> path to the gazebo. In other words, the signal strength from the other
> network is stronger in some locations in others, but not clearly stronger
at
> one end or the other of the path to the gazebo. (I haven't determined
which
> neighbors signal I have yet, but suspect that a line to their location is
> perpendicular to the path to the gazebo.)
>
> Any thoughts??
>
> Dave M

Do you know what channels your neighbors' signals are using? Try to find a
channel away from theirs.

Ron Bandes, CCNP, CTT+, etc.
 
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"Dave M" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in
news:xL6dnR3XR6Lyen_d4p2dnA@comcast.com:

> Any thoughts??

Buy a larger Antenna.

--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/
 
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Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

yeah - those published numbers are always interesting -
I've wanted to take my WAP11 Access Point and do a test in a local soccer
field -

Take my UPS and a couple of laptops - for a small network setup -
Setup the WAP11 and a laptop connected via hub - with the UPS for power
Then take another laptop and do a walk around site survey -
It would be real interesting to see some results from this kind of test...
Wonder if anyone has done this - and posted it to the web ?
Phil
 
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Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Phil Schuman <pschuman_nospam_me@interserv.com> wrote:
> It would be real interesting to see some results from this kind of test...
> Wonder if anyone has done this - and posted it to the web ?

http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/448

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5
 
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http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10347044&loc=101&sp=1
if link doesn't work, search
mc antenna
made by telex - others make them too.


<brian-s-jones-at-comcast.net> wrote in message
news:vf38e0lbs8n9kqi9njqr0frehuu63t5hqe@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 23:58:43 GMT, "bumtracks" <user@unknown.org>
> wrote:
>
>
> >I'm no antenna guru, but when I added a 8db yaggi directional flag
antenna
> >to the laptops compex g pc.card it was a definite grin maker. It's 100%
> >signal most anywhere ,,, one bad area that was 26% is now 76% aimed
through
> >I guess mortar over wire lath wall and two other wood/drywall type
sidings.
> >
> What specific antenna did you add?
>
 

jt

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On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:16:47 -0400, "Dave M" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote:

>
> A Dell Laptop with a built-in True Mobile card.
 
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On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:16:47 -0400, "Dave M" <someone@microsoft.com>
wrote:

>My set-up consists of
> DLink MI-514 Wireless Router
> about 20' of LMR 400 antenna cable
> A 8.5 dB Omnidirectional Antenna (no downtilt to the radiation pattern)
> A Dell Laptop with a built-in True Mobile card.
> Assorted pigtails, adapters, and lighting arrestor.
>
>I mounted the antenna outside the main location about 3' from the ground,
>and I have unobstructed LOS to the gazebo.

This should be a no-brainer with LOTS of signal to play with. In
other words, it should work without difficulties.

The DI-514 has an R-SMA connector for the antenna. However, the
thickness of the plastic rear panel, lock washer, and SMA nut all
accumulate to cause a typical R-SMA connector to NOT fit very well.
My guess(tm) is that the center pin is not making very good contact.
Unscrew the gold nut, remove the lockwasher, and put the nut back and
it will work. (Note: This drove me nuts for a few hours until I
discovered the problem).

>I thought that this would be a slam-dunk, as the advertised range of the
>DI-514 is 300 feet indoors and 1300 feet outdoors (yes, I realize under
>"ideal" conditions). I thought putting the antenna outside in direct LOS of
>the gazebo would pretty much make the conditions as ideal as possible, as
>well as increase the gain in the system.
>
>I estimated the signal strength close to the antenna (accounting for cable
>loss, antenna gain, and free space loss) at about
> -13dBm.
>OK, I ignored any losses in the assorted pigtails, etc..

My guess(tm) is that you have too much antenna gain. An 8.5dBi omni
antenna will have a -3dB vertical beamwidth of about 10 degrees. That
means that the bulk of your power goes into an area that is plus or
minus 5 degrees from horizontal. Actually, there may be some uptilt
in the pattern if the antenna is mounted close to a horizontal ground
plane.

At 500ft trigonometry proclaims that a 10 degree beamwidth results in
a useful vertical coverage area of perhaps plus or minus 44 ft. If
the antenna was mounted on a tall rooftop, and your laptop is at
ground level, you're sending most of your RF over your laptops head.
Of course, you could tilt the antenna over towards the gazeebo, that
would be aesthetically disgusting.

>Using the utilities shipped with my laptop, the received signal levels I
>experience are as follows:
>
>at 5 to 10 feet -27 dBm
>at 50 feet -50 dBm
>at 100 feet -61 dBm
>at 150 feet -73 dBm

Yeah, that's about what I would expect from sending the signal over
your head.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
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I am no guru, but as soon as I read your post, It is my best opinion that
you need to raise your antenna. Put it as high as possible. I have always
read that your antenna needs to be high as possible.

Hope this helps.

Jason

"Dave M" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:xL6dnR3XR6Lyen_d4p2dnA@comcast.com...
> I would appreciate some help understanding what I have done wrong here. I
am
> attempting to extend access out to a gazebo about 500-600 feet from my
main
> location.
>
> My set-up consists of
> DLink MI-514 Wireless Router
> about 20' of LMR 400 antenna cable
> A 8.5 dB Omnidirectional Antenna (no downtilt to the radiation pattern)
> A Dell Laptop with a built-in True Mobile card.
> Assorted pigtails, adapters, and lighting arrestor.
>
> I mounted the antenna outside the main location about 3' from the ground,
> and I have unobstructed LOS to the gazebo.
>
> I thought that this would be a slam-dunk, as the advertised range of the
> DI-514 is 300 feet indoors and 1300 feet outdoors (yes, I realize under
> "ideal" conditions). I thought putting the antenna outside in direct LOS
of
> the gazebo would pretty much make the conditions as ideal as possible, as
> well as increase the gain in the system.
>
> I estimated the signal strength close to the antenna (accounting for cable
> loss, antenna gain, and free space loss) at about
> -13dBm.
> OK, I ignored any losses in the assorted pigtails, etc..
>
> Using the utilities shipped with my laptop, the received signal levels I
> experience are as follows:
>
> at 5 to 10 feet -27 dBm
> at 50 feet -50 dBm
> at 100 feet -61 dBm
> at 150 feet -73 dBm
>
> At each location, I am in full view of the antenna. Beyond 150 feet I
can't
> hold the signal long enough to get a good reading.
>
> The annoying aspect is that for some reason I can also pick up another
> wireless network at all locations, although not reliably. When I can get
a
> signal from the other network, it appears to be in the -60 dBm to -70 dBm
> range. The signal strength is pretty independent of where I am along the
> path to the gazebo. In other words, the signal strength from the other
> network is stronger in some locations in others, but not clearly stronger
at
> one end or the other of the path to the gazebo. (I haven't determined
which
> neighbors signal I have yet, but suspect that a line to their location is
> perpendicular to the path to the gazebo.)
>
> Any thoughts??
>
> Dave M
>
>
 

Hellbound

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your built in dell notebook is not good
there is no good antenna for notebook and they usually use intel based
chipset with poor RF power and bad ceramic antenna

I had same problem as yours
I tried one USB wireless from dlink and I am going up to 1.3 KM (4300
feet) and having up to 11 megabit in most of place with line of sight.


but my antenna is at the 21st level of building located on very high
mountain


hope it helps


--
hellbound
brought to you by http://www.wifi-forum.com/
 
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Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

I appreciate all the comments that have been made. I will try some of the
suggestions provided and let you know what I find out.

Thanks Again,
Dave.


"Dave M" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:xL6dnR3XR6Lyen_d4p2dnA@comcast.com...
> I would appreciate some help understanding what I have done wrong here. I
am
> attempting to extend access out to a gazebo about 500-600 feet from my
main
> location.
><snip>
 
G

Guest

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Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

If that doesn't work try not using an omni antenna and use a flat
panel like the andrew 11 dbi model dl2412. These offer a much higher
beamwidth of 75 x 27 degrees. The beamwidth can be changed either
vertical or horizontal depending on how it is mounted.

As people said with the omni the beamwidth is very narrow so if you
are just above or below the beamwidth you will very little signal.

Also generally as you double the distance your signal should drop by 6
db. If it is dropping by more than this amount you are not in the main
beam but likely in a side lobe.



M" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message news:<VcKdnTvTgdI2l3Hd4p2dnA@comcast.com>...
> I appreciate all the comments that have been made. I will try some of the
> suggestions provided and let you know what I find out.
>
> Thanks Again,
> Dave.
>
>
> "Dave M" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:xL6dnR3XR6Lyen_d4p2dnA@comcast.com...
> > I would appreciate some help understanding what I have done wrong here. I
> am
> > attempting to extend access out to a gazebo about 500-600 feet from my
> main
> > location.
> ><snip>
 
G

Guest

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Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Sounds like you either have put bad ends on your cable, have bad cable, or
a bad antenna.

MI-514 output: 15dbm - about 5db for the LMR400 run = 10dbm -1db for
connectors=9dbm
+8.5db for the antenna (by the way.. place this high.. an omni at this high
a gain will have a super
tight angle of radiation.. probably a lower gain antenna at that height
would be better) = 17.5dbm
At 17.5dbm EIRP you should yield a much higher RSSI at the distances you
list...

Your 20 ft of LMR400 is also hurting you as LMR400 has a huge loss/ft
By moving to LMR600 you will probably gain about 3dbi which will double your
output power/rcvr
power... But again.. check all your connections as I bet it is just a bad
antenna connector..
Check with an ohm meter for impedence as well 52ohms


"Dave M" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:xL6dnR3XR6Lyen_d4p2dnA@comcast.com...
> I would appreciate some help understanding what I have done wrong here. I
am
> attempting to extend access out to a gazebo about 500-600 feet from my
main
> location.
>
> My set-up consists of
> DLink MI-514 Wireless Router
> about 20' of LMR 400 antenna cable
> A 8.5 dB Omnidirectional Antenna (no downtilt to the radiation pattern)
> A Dell Laptop with a built-in True Mobile card.
> Assorted pigtails, adapters, and lighting arrestor.
>
> I mounted the antenna outside the main location about 3' from the ground,
> and I have unobstructed LOS to the gazebo.
>
> I thought that this would be a slam-dunk, as the advertised range of the
> DI-514 is 300 feet indoors and 1300 feet outdoors (yes, I realize under
> "ideal" conditions). I thought putting the antenna outside in direct LOS
of
> the gazebo would pretty much make the conditions as ideal as possible, as
> well as increase the gain in the system.
>
> I estimated the signal strength close to the antenna (accounting for cable
> loss, antenna gain, and free space loss) at about
> -13dBm.
> OK, I ignored any losses in the assorted pigtails, etc..
>
> Using the utilities shipped with my laptop, the received signal levels I
> experience are as follows:
>
> at 5 to 10 feet -27 dBm
> at 50 feet -50 dBm
> at 100 feet -61 dBm
> at 150 feet -73 dBm
>
> At each location, I am in full view of the antenna. Beyond 150 feet I
can't
> hold the signal long enough to get a good reading.
>
> The annoying aspect is that for some reason I can also pick up another
> wireless network at all locations, although not reliably. When I can get
a
> signal from the other network, it appears to be in the -60 dBm to -70 dBm
> range. The signal strength is pretty independent of where I am along the
> path to the gazebo. In other words, the signal strength from the other
> network is stronger in some locations in others, but not clearly stronger
at
> one end or the other of the path to the gazebo. (I haven't determined
which
> neighbors signal I have yet, but suspect that a line to their location is
> perpendicular to the path to the gazebo.)
>
> Any thoughts??
>
> Dave M
>
>
>
 
G

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On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 23:54:38 GMT, "Fresnel Fadermargini"
<RSSI@pathloss.dbm.com> wrote:

>Check with an ohm meter for impedence as well 52ohms

That is bad advice. The 50 ohm thing is an RF impedance. An ohm meter
will never measure it unless something might just happen to be
terminated with a 50 ohm resistor -- unlikely.

The idea to check with an ohm meter is fine, but it is just a continuity
/ short test. If you get the two ends of the cable in one place, check
to make sure the grounds (shield side) of both ends are connected. The
center wires are connected, and there is no short between the shield and
center (one end should be fine, but try both if it makes you feel
better).

Measuring the impedence, which could affect transmission through SWR
reflections, or the loss at 2.4 GHz, is not something you can do with an
ohm meter, but if you used proper cable and connectors, and the ohm
meter continuity/short tests are ok, then it is unlikely you need to
make any other tests which would require special RF test equipment.

Just wanted to get some reality here and not have you thinking there
should be 50 ohms you can measure with an DC ohm meter.
 
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>Your 20 ft of LMR400 is also hurting you as LMR400 has a huge loss/ft
>By moving to LMR600 you will probably gain about 3dbi which will double your
>output power/rcvr
>power... But again.. check all your connections as I bet it is just a bad
>antenna connector..
>Check with an ohm meter for impedence as well 52ohms

How can you measure impedance with an ohmmeter at these frequencies?..

--
Tony Sayer