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December 8, 2004 1:02:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

I couldn't find the FAQ, could someone please post it?

I'm a civ3 newbie and there is something i really don't get. How do you
solve the "It's just way too crowded" problem? I really don't see what's
causing it, and i don't know how to fix it.

Please help!

More about : newbie questions

Anonymous
December 8, 2004 1:02:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"Erik" <spam@someoneelse.com> wrote in message
news:o psinopsa62kedvn@datorn.bredbandsbolaget.se...
>I couldn't find the FAQ, could someone please post it?
>
> I'm a civ3 newbie and there is something i really don't get. How do you
> solve the "It's just way too crowded" problem? I really don't see what's
> causing it, and i don't know how to fix it.
>
> Please help!

You always need the same or more happy citizens than unhappy citizens. The
unhappy ones are unhappy because 'it's too crowded'. The cure is to generate
more happy ones by supplying luxuries in one form or another.

I put it on the todo list for the faq ;) 
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 1:25:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"Erik" <spam@someoneelse.com> wrote in message
news:o psinopsa62kedvn@datorn.bredbandsbolaget.se...
> I couldn't find the FAQ, could someone please post it?
>
> I'm a civ3 newbie and there is something i really don't get. How do you
> solve the "It's just way too crowded" problem? I really don't see what's
> causing it, and i don't know how to fix it.
>
> Please help!

Actually, I don't think that was answered or even asked in the FAQ. I'll
try to help though.
When your city is rioting or getting close to shutting down there will
usually be some sort of complaint like the one you quoted. Sometimes a
message pops up. Other times you have to find it by right clicking on an
unhappy citizen within the city view screen.
To take care of this problem is simple and can be done by a couple methods.
1) build settlers or workers to reduce that cities population. 2) convert
working citizens to a specialist of some type. You do this by left clicking
on a worked tile to free up a citizen. That citizen will turn into an
entertainer. If you continue to left click on the entertainer head it will
cycle through all available specialists.
Related resources
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 2:00:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 22:02:06 +0100, Erik <spam@someoneelse.com> wrote:
> I couldn't find the FAQ, could someone please post it?

We're working on it ;) 

> I'm a civ3 newbie and there is something i really don't get. How do you
> solve the "It's just way too crowded" problem? I really don't see what's
> causing it, and i don't know how to fix it.


'nother question for the FAQ. I don't have the answer to that one,
I figured it was just a function of packing too many rats into too
small of a cage. City people are, in my experience, less happy than
rural people. Maybe this is the game modelling that.

Dave Hinz
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 2:15:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Erik wrote:
> I couldn't find the FAQ, could someone please post it?
>
> I'm a civ3 newbie and there is something i really don't get. How do you
> solve the "It's just way too crowded" problem? I really don't see
> what's causing it, and i don't know how to fix it.
>
> Please help!

Build roads and settlers. That has usually taken care of the problem for
me. Roads to other cities that is. I`m a bit "new" as well, but I also
found out that building cities IN the mountains is a no-brain thing as
well....:) 

Pink
December 8, 2004 4:01:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

> I'm a civ3 newbie and there is something i really don't get. How do you
> solve the "It's just way too crowded" problem? I really don't see what's
> causing it, and i don't know how to fix it.

It is explained in Civilopedia in great detail.
It's a very basic concept of city management and you cannot get
anywhere without getting it right.

In brief:
there are four types of citizens in each city:
happy, content, unhappy and specialist.
The first three citizens are born content (at regent),
the rest are born unhappy due to "overcrowding".

When the number of unhappy citizens exceeds the number of happy citizens,
the city riots. To prevent this from happening you must build
temple-like improvements and/or police your cities with military units,
which make unhappy citizens content;
and give them luxuries and/or entertainment which make content
citizens happy. There are other less common ways.
Just open Civilopedia, and read about citizens moods under
"Game concepts" section.
December 8, 2004 5:18:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 20:00:35 -0500, The Stare
<wat1@not.likely.frontiernet.net> wrote:

>
> "Erik" <spam@someoneelse.com> wrote in message
> news:o psinopsa62kedvn@datorn.bredbandsbolaget.se...
>> I couldn't find the FAQ, could someone please post it?
>>
>> I'm a civ3 newbie and there is something i really don't get. How do you
>> solve the "It's just way too crowded" problem? I really don't see what's
>> causing it, and i don't know how to fix it.
>>
>> Please help!
>
> You always need the same or more happy citizens than unhappy citizens.
> The
> unhappy ones are unhappy because 'it's too crowded'. The cure is to
> generate
> more happy ones by supplying luxuries in one form or another.

IRL, it would seem kinda weird to spoil the population with luxuries when
there's lack of room. I guess it's a mean to bribe them into happiness.

It seems that my cities always expand too fast, especially if the terrain
is very beneficial for growth, such as grasslands with food bonuses or
rivers. I always wind up with an overcrowded city before i am even close
to finishing that temple for instance. It seems to me like a good idea to
focus on mines only for city improvements initially to speed up
construction, because the city generally doesn't need much help growing
with my settling strategy.

> I put it on the todo list for the faq ;) 

Cool!
December 8, 2004 5:21:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 22:25:05 GMT, Tzar Sasha <tzar_sasha@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

>
> "Erik" <spam@someoneelse.com> wrote in message
> news:o psinopsa62kedvn@datorn.bredbandsbolaget.se...
>> I couldn't find the FAQ, could someone please post it?
>>
>> I'm a civ3 newbie and there is something i really don't get. How do you
>> solve the "It's just way too crowded" problem? I really don't see what's
>> causing it, and i don't know how to fix it.
>>
>> Please help!
>
> Actually, I don't think that was answered or even asked in the FAQ. I'll
> try to help though.
> When your city is rioting or getting close to shutting down there will
> usually be some sort of complaint like the one you quoted. Sometimes a
> message pops up. Other times you have to find it by right clicking on an
> unhappy citizen within the city view screen.
> To take care of this problem is simple and can be done by a couple
> methods.
> 1) build settlers or workers to reduce that cities population.

I didn't even think of that... Good idea.

2)
> convert
> working citizens to a specialist of some type. You do this by left
> clicking
> on a worked tile to free up a citizen. That citizen will turn into an
> entertainer. If you continue to left click on the entertainer head it
> will
> cycle through all available specialists.

But entertainers are the only ones that will affect the citizens mood
positively, right? Because otherwise it would be more benificial to make
them scientists or tax collectors, right?
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 9:41:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 02:21:12 +0100, Erik <spam@someoneelse.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 22:25:05 GMT, Tzar Sasha <tzar_sasha@sbcglobal.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> "Erik" <spam@someoneelse.com> wrote in message
>> news:o psinopsa62kedvn@datorn.bredbandsbolaget.se...
>>> I couldn't find the FAQ, could someone please post it?
>>>
>>> I'm a civ3 newbie and there is something i really don't get. How do you
>>> solve the "It's just way too crowded" problem? I really don't see what's
>>> causing it, and i don't know how to fix it.
>>>
>>> Please help!
>>
>> Actually, I don't think that was answered or even asked in the FAQ. I'll
>> try to help though.
>> When your city is rioting or getting close to shutting down there will
>> usually be some sort of complaint like the one you quoted. Sometimes a
>> message pops up. Other times you have to find it by right clicking on an
>> unhappy citizen within the city view screen.
>> To take care of this problem is simple and can be done by a couple
>> methods.
>> 1) build settlers or workers to reduce that cities population.
>
>I didn't even think of that... Good idea.
>
> 2)
>> convert
>> working citizens to a specialist of some type. You do this by left
>> clicking
>> on a worked tile to free up a citizen. That citizen will turn into an
>> entertainer. If you continue to left click on the entertainer head it
>> will
>> cycle through all available specialists.
>
>But entertainers are the only ones that will affect the citizens mood
>positively, right? Because otherwise it would be more benificial to make
>them scientists or tax collectors, right?

that would depend on what you're trying to do. if I'm using that
particular city as a "science" city (as many of my cities are early
on) putting as many people as scientists as possible will help your
research rate, possibly shaving of some turns for that much needed
technology

tax Collectors, help you budget (though IIRC by default they ding
happiness as well) well, do I have to explain what you need money for?

btw please include these in the FAQ if appropriate
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 6:51:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

In article <31mr0dF3cqv47U4@individual.net>, Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 22:02:06 +0100, Erik <spam@someoneelse.com> wrote:
>> I couldn't find the FAQ, could someone please post it?
>
>We're working on it ;) 
>
>> I'm a civ3 newbie and there is something i really don't get. How do you
>> solve the "It's just way too crowded" problem? I really don't see what's
>> causing it, and i don't know how to fix it.
>
>
>'nother question for the FAQ. I don't have the answer to that one,
>I figured it was just a function of packing too many rats into too
>small of a cage. City people are, in my experience, less happy than
>rural people. Maybe this is the game modelling that.

:-)

Here are the ways

1) Build happiness buildings. Temple, Cathedral, or Coliseums. Each of
these will make some unhappy people content.

2) Build Marketplaces and acquire Luxuries. Without a Market each Luxury
improves the mood of one citizen (one happy face). Marketplaces amplify this.
With a Marketplace the first two Luxuries each make one person happy, the
third and fourth each make two more people happy, the fifth and sixth each
make three more happy faces, and the last two Luxuries each make four happy
faces. If you can get all eight Luxuries (through expansion or trade) then a
Marketplace will make 20 people happy rather than 8.

3) Build Military Police units. Depending on your government, units in a city
may generate happiness. Under Monarchy the first three units in a city each
generate one happy face. Despotism (the starting government) has a limit of
2, Feudalism, Communism, and Fascism each have a limit of 4, and this won't
work at all with Republic or Democracy. The unit must be a ground unit with
an attack and defense strength but other than that anything goes. Conscript
warriors work as well as elite Modern Armors.

4) Various wonders create happy faces. For example the Hanging Garden creates
3 happy faces in the city it was built in. JS bach's Cathedral makes 2 happy
faces in each city.

5) Some wonders enhance the effects of other buildings. The Oracle doubles
the effects ot Temples and the Sistine Chapel doubles the effects of
Cathedrals.

6) The Temple of Artemis will put a temple in each city until you acquire
Education. Temple or Artemis + Oracle makes for a very happy empire.

7) Switch some citizens from labor to entertainers. If only one citizen is
unhappy making him a Scientist (or some other specialist) will work.


Mike G
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 7:06:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 02:18:20 +0100, Erik <spam@someoneelse.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 20:00:35 -0500, The Stare
><wat1@not.likely.frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
>> The cure is to generate
>> more happy ones by supplying luxuries in one form or another.
>
> IRL, it would seem kinda weird to spoil the population with luxuries when
> there's lack of room. I guess it's a mean to bribe them into happiness.

Well, that models real-life, doesn't it? The biggest cities have the
most cultural events going on (think Broadway).
December 8, 2004 10:27:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 02:21:12 +0100 Erik <spam@someoneelse.com> wrote in
message <opsin0pmky2kedvn@datorn.bredbandsbolaget.se>...

> On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 22:25:05 GMT, Tzar Sasha <tzar_sasha@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > "Erik" <spam@someoneelse.com> wrote in message
> > news:o psinopsa62kedvn@datorn.bredbandsbolaget.se...

> But entertainers are the only ones that will affect the citizens mood
> positively, right? Because otherwise it would be more beneficial to make
> them scientists or tax collectors, right?

Actually it's usually most beneficial to leave citizens working squares.

If you only have one too many unhappy people, you can get into balance by
creating a tax collector or scientist, rather than an entertainer, because
specialists are created from your least happy citizens. However, this is
the least efficient way to deal with the problem, and should be considered a
short-term solution only.

--
Daran

The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words;
on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them
unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary. -- James D. Nicoll
December 8, 2004 10:29:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:51:19 GMT Mike Garcia
<mtg@cornellc.cit.stumbling.block.cornell.edu> wrote in message
<cp780u$762$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>...

> In article <31mr0dF3cqv47U4@individual.net>, Dave Hinz
> <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote:

> >'nother question for the FAQ. I don't have the answer to that one, I
> >figured it was just a function of packing too many rats into too small of
> >a cage. City people are, in my experience, less happy than rural people.
> >Maybe this is the game modelling that.
>
> :-)
>
> Here are the ways

You missed one.

Increase the luxury-rate slider.

> Mike G

--
Daran

The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words;
on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them
unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary. -- James D. Nicoll
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 12:35:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"It's just way too crowded" is just the basic unhappiness reason. It
means their not complaining about anything else.

"We can never forget the oppresion" means there is extra unhappiness
due to using the pop-rushing. They'll "forget" in 20 turns. Until then
treat this as "way too crowded" if it's enough to cause disorder.

"Stop fighting our mother country" means you have foreign nationals of
the civ your currently fighting and they are mad about it. They'll stop
complaining as soon as the war ends. Cities with lots of foreign
nationals your fighting can be strarved / workers & settlers rushed to
reduce these complaints while your fighting.

"All we are saying is give peace a chance" means you have War Wearious
and have some citizens unhappy about it.
Often, the luxary slider is the best stop-gap measure to reduce this if
it's enough to cause major cities to go into disorder.
They'll stop complaining as soon as the war ends. Note that if you are
running a Democracy and your major population centers are approaching
50% of this, your government is in high danger of falling into anarchy,
so you may want to consider signing a peace treaty.

There are really just 3 stages to worry about:

1. A pop 6+ city with both half of their citizens happy and no unhappy
citizens. (WLT_D)

2. A city of any size with more unhappy citizens than happy ones. (Will
go into disorder)

3. Any other city.

In the case of #1, you don't need to do anything now. It's already in
the ideal situation.

In the case of #2, action must be taken immedately. Hire a specialist /
Use the luxary slider. Note that a rushed improvement will finish too
late.

In the case of #3, unless there's something you can do to move it into
category #1, can be ignored until the unhappiness rises to a level
where it's about to drop in #2.

Things that improve happiness:

1. Connection to unqiue luxary types, especally with 3+ and a Market
Place
2. Direct Happines structures / wonders. (Temples, Catherdrials, etc.)
3. Luxary slider.
4. Enterainer.
5. Indirectly any specalist.
December 9, 2004 4:00:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 19:29:40 +0000, Daran <daranSPAMg@lineone.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:51:19 GMT Mike Garcia
> <mtg@cornellc.cit.stumbling.block.cornell.edu> wrote in message
> <cp780u$762$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>...
>
>> In article <31mr0dF3cqv47U4@individual.net>, Dave Hinz
>> <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> >'nother question for the FAQ. I don't have the answer to that one, I
>> >figured it was just a function of packing too many rats into too small
>> of
>> >a cage. City people are, in my experience, less happy than rural
>> people.
>> >Maybe this is the game modelling that.
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Here are the ways
>
> You missed one.
>
> Increase the luxury-rate slider.

How does it work?
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 11:29:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

joncnunn@yahoo.com wrote:
> "It's just way too crowded"
> "We can never forget the oppresion"
> "Stop fighting our mother country"
> "All we are saying is give peace a chance"

Excuse my ignorance, but I have been playing VC3/PTW/C3C since they have
respectively been released but never seen these bits of feedback. Where
are they? Have I been missing some useful page of information for all
of these years? Am I blind or merely stupid? :) 

Thank you,

Russell
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 11:29:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Like many things in life, you have to ask. When a city is in disorder
(or even not but who cares then), you click on the unhappy people in a
city and they tell you why they are unhappy. You usually get one of
those answers. It tells you what you need to do to make them happy or
content at least.


Tom Petrocelli

"Never send a monster to the work of an evil scientist" - Evil Scientist
while chasing Bugs Bunny

On 12/10/2004 3:29 AM, Russell Bungay wrote:
> joncnunn@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> "It's just way too crowded"
>> "We can never forget the oppresion"
>> "Stop fighting our mother country"
>> "All we are saying is give peace a chance"
>
>
> Excuse my ignorance, but I have been playing VC3/PTW/C3C since they have
> respectively been released but never seen these bits of feedback. Where
> are they? Have I been missing some useful page of information for all
> of these years? Am I blind or merely stupid? :) 
>
> Thank you,
>
> Russell
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 11:38:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"Erik" <spam@someoneelse.com> wrote in message
news:o psiqoydzm2kedvn@datorn.bredbandsbolaget.se...
> On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 19:29:40 +0000, Daran <daranSPAMg@lineone.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:51:19 GMT Mike Garcia
>> <mtg@cornellc.cit.stumbling.block.cornell.edu> wrote in message
>> <cp780u$762$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>...
>>
>>> In article <31mr0dF3cqv47U4@individual.net>, Dave Hinz
>>> <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>>> >'nother question for the FAQ. I don't have the answer to that one, I
>>> >figured it was just a function of packing too many rats into too small
>>> of
>>> >a cage. City people are, in my experience, less happy than rural
>>> people.
>>> >Maybe this is the game modelling that.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Here are the ways
>>
>> You missed one.
>>
>> Increase the luxury-rate slider.
>
> How does it work?

The entertainment slider on F1 will give +1 happy for every 1 gold
allocated.
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 2:34:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Go into the city with 1+ unhappy citizens.
(Left) click on an unhappy citizen there.

It is rare for any reason other than "it's just way too crowded" to
reach 100%.

There's also a "disorder report" right clicking a city that you've
allowed to fall into disorder.
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 8:48:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Tom Petrocelli wrote:
> Like many things in life, you have to ask. When a city is in disorder
> (or even not but who cares then), you click on the unhappy people in a
> city and they tell you why they are unhappy. You usually get one of
> those answers. It tells you what you need to do to make them happy or
> content at least.

Funky, cheers. It takes me back to Theme Park :) 

R
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 5:50:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 02:18:20 +0100, Erik <spam@someoneelse.com> wrote:

>IRL, it would seem kinda weird to spoil the population with luxuries when
>there's lack of room. I guess it's a mean to bribe them into happiness.
>
>It seems that my cities always expand too fast, especially if the terrain
>is very beneficial for growth, such as grasslands with food bonuses or
>rivers. I always wind up with an overcrowded city before i am even close
>to finishing that temple for instance. It seems to me like a good idea to
>focus on mines only for city improvements initially to speed up
>construction, because the city generally doesn't need much help growing
>with my settling strategy.
>
>> I put it on the todo list for the faq ;) 
>
>Cool!

I only irrigate enough to get my size 12 city. That usually means a
lot of mines.

I think your problem might be building temples too early. Build
settlers and workers instead. Don't start to build temples in your
core cities until your expansion is nearly complete. Then you need to
get them in so your borders can expand.

In later years you get coliseum, cathedrals, and marketplaces to make
people happy. In the early years all you really have is units and
luxuries to produce happiness.
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 5:26:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

If playing either a Scientific or Relgious civ, your half priced
buildings should all be built as quickly as possible everywhere to take
full advange of the cultural aspects of the traight.

Paying full retail values, Temples / Libaries should be built when
they are benifital.

For a libary, that is when by the time it is complete it will generate
and additional 2 science beakers. (1 is break even)
For a temple, that is when it gets built a few turns before a specalist
would have had to be hired otherwise.

As for cultural bombing, libaries pack much more of a bunch, but when
that's the objective, generally both are built.
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 11:44:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 02:50:28 -0500, P12 <nowhere@all.com> wrote:
>
> I think your problem might be building temples too early. Build
> settlers and workers instead. Don't start to build temples in your
> core cities until your expansion is nearly complete. Then you need to
> get them in so your borders can expand.

That's interesting. I've been building the library first, then
a temple soon after, on the theory that more culture was important at
that time ???

So, hold off on the culture points and wait until I have unhappy people
then?

Dave Hinz
Anonymous
December 15, 2004 6:53:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

In article <326d9bF3j00enU1@individual.net>, Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 02:50:28 -0500, P12 <nowhere@all.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think your problem might be building temples too early. Build
>> settlers and workers instead. Don't start to build temples in your
>> core cities until your expansion is nearly complete. Then you need to
>> get them in so your borders can expand.

This has its risks. The AI can (and some times will) slip a settler in-between
your cities and build inside "your" territory.

>That's interesting. I've been building the library first, then
>a temple soon after, on the theory that more culture was important at
>that time ???

If you are building cultural buildings to increase your border then you will
want to build Libraries first if you are a scientific civ since the Libraries
are cheaper than Temples. You may also want to rush Libraries first since
they will generate more culture than Temples will.


Mike G
December 15, 2004 6:53:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:53:00 GMT,
mtg@cornellc.cit.stumbling.block.cornell.edu (Mike Garcia) wrote:

>If you are building cultural buildings to increase your border then you will
>want to build Libraries first if you are a scientific civ since the Libraries
>are cheaper than Temples. You may also want to rush Libraries first since
>they will generate more culture than Temples will.
>


A great thing to add to the game specific FAQ

Buck
--
For what it's worth.
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 12:50:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:53:00 GMT, Mike Garcia <mtg@cornellc.cit.stumbling.block.cornell.edu> wrote:
> In article <326d9bF3j00enU1@individual.net>, Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote:

>>That's interesting. I've been building the library first, then
>>a temple soon after, on the theory that more culture was important at
>>that time ???
>
> If you are building cultural buildings to increase your border then you will
> want to build Libraries first if you are a scientific civ since the Libraries
> are cheaper than Temples. You may also want to rush Libraries first since
> they will generate more culture than Temples will.

Good, that's what I've been doing, for those reasons. I get more culture,
and I get research, _and_ the cities aren't usually big enough for happy
people to be a problem yet, so the temple can wait.

Dave
!